ronwagn

China's aggression is changing the nature of sovereignty.

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What makes Amurcuns, Brits, Auzzies so vile and detestable is your constant lies and denials of lies.

The USA supported Pol Pot.

"You should tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs but we won't let that stand in our way."  — Henry Kissinger

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/09/16/us-to-support-pol-pot-regime-for-un-seat/58b8b124-7dd7-448f-b4f7-80231683ec57/

In fact, the US had been secretly funding Pol Pot in exile since January 1980. The extent of this support – $85m from 1980 to 1986 – was revealed in correspondence to a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

How many more facts are you prepared to read?

China restored PolPot? How? Means? PolPot was not in power prior, so how could he be restored? The USA empowered PolPot.  China invaded?  China had many fears and reasons to secure its border with VN. To explain them all will require volumes. But true, from ca March '78 to April '79, 6 months, China sent troops into the disputed areas, then withdrew completely. 6 months, limited troops, limited arms, limited guerilla battles, limited border areas, complete withdrawal; all this is hardly an invasion.

 

Edited by frankfurter
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8 hours ago, nsdp said:

Andre, Putin has no negotiating power.  Every country has a critical weakness. Russia and China it is food. You know  the role of food in February Revolution. In WWII the US  fed the Soviet Union though Validvostok since food was not on the Japanese -Russian  Non .Aggresssion Pact of 1939.  Some 1.5 million tons of food annually were shipped  from the US and Canada using Soviet flagged US Liberty ships fed the Soviet Union during and after WWII. Maybe you don't remember the food riots over increasing prices of food in Novisibersk and the rest of siberia in the early 1960's. Soviet  wheat and corm purchases  generated boom times in American agriculture that lasted from 1961 to 1974.   China faces having food imports cut off by shipping bottlenecks in the southern Japanese Island s Taiwan and the Philippines.  The Chinese don't really have the power to bully any one when they import $104 billion dollars in food every year.

Russia still imports $30billion in food and ag supplies per year despite Putins regulations(down from $43 billlion in 2013).  That is more per capita than China.  Russia doesn't have 1. 500million people.   I would say President Biden has his foot firmly on Mr. Putin's carotid.

Yes, the imports are for diversity. Russia is a net exporter of agricultural goods though. Kicking US from #1 position in grain, among other things, leading to a bust time. Thanks to your "sanctions" I would say it is President Putin who has his foot firmly on Mr. Biden's carotid. What are you gonna do, a naval blockade?

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On 1/7/2022 at 6:36 PM, Tomasz said:

Now you can see what a chess player Putin is. He first surrounded Ukraine with part of his army, and the west started screaming about the upcoming aggression.

Meanwhile, all plans were focused on Kazakhstan. It's hard to call it aggression, because there is no war there and Kazakhstan  as member of alliance formlly ask for military assistance.

This is an end of multipolar foreign policy and Kazahstan will now ally with Russia without looting its riches.

In Kazakhstan w saw what can be called premature revolution.  The right time was not chosen to organize mass protests, an opportunity was seized related to the unimaginable increase in the price of gas used to propel cars. In total, there was nothing terrible about it for the organizers, but they did not take into account the experience of the organizers of the raid in Ukraine, where the protests started as peacefully as possible and intensified very slowly, and at the same time the initiative to aggravate the conflict came from the authorities .

In Kazakhstan, the protests immediately took the form of an armed struggle, which led to such a serious disturbance of the public order that even in the west they have nothing against it, and the Kazakh people have put the order as soon as possible.

Of course, it was not taken into account that Russia and its allies would send military units there.

And when they found out, there were no protests.

The West has simply recognized that Russia has a zone of its own interests and that it can do whatever suits its interests there.

FIm-l0dXMAE-2WS?format=jpg

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10 hours ago, nsdp said:

Andre yousaid:"You need to learn some history yourself. In all the local conflicts, would you find the great colonial powers and especially the reigning hegemony sitting on all the chair at once. Also, in Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh initially had just as many advocates within the US administration as Diem, recognizing them for what they really were - forces of Vietnamese liberation from colonial yoke, i.e. Vietnamese nationalists.  IMHO, would be the most obvious lesson to learn from the Korean war. What cast the vote again Minh is him signing up as a client of USSR. Simply proclamations of adherence to Marxism-Leninism never interested anyone. Case in point the Khmer Rouge / Pol Pot, who also professed to be Commies, but were a client of USA instead of USSR and actually at war with Vietnam. "

 

First but for John Foster Dulles, Joe McCarthy and Robert Taft pulling the US out of the Paris accords of 1954, the US would have had a deal along with  France and Britian with Ho in 1954.  Second, US intelligence in Vietnam was so bad that the US did not know for 2 years that Le Duan had displaced Ho and Giap as the real power in 1963. Le ordered the PT boat attack on the US destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin.  Ho found out after the attack.  Next Lon Nol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Nol was the  US proxy in Cambodia deposing Prince Sihanouk. Pol Pot  was the Russian and later Chinese proxy. The Vietnamese Army crushed the Khmer Rouge in 1979. China invaded Vietnam  trying to restore Pol Pot.  The Chinese failed to learn from Charging Charlie Beckwith that "I would give anything to have 200 of them in my command,"  In 1979, PolPot got his ass kicked just like the US.

Pol Pot (born Saloth Sâr; 19 May 1925 - 15 April 1998) was a Cambodian revolutionary and politician who governed Cambodia as Prime Minister of Democratic Kampuchea between 1976 and 1979. Ideologically a Marxist-Leninist and a Khmer nationalist, he was a leading member of Cambodia's communist movement, the Khmer Rouge,.

Pol Pot was an American client, which just goes on to prove what I said before. He was a sorry excuse of a Communist. More like an agrarian gone wrong. (i.e. kill everybody who appears smarter than you?)

Bay of Tonkin was an American inside job / false flag op.

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On 1/8/2022 at 10:17 AM, Wombat One said:

As I was saying, your aggression is making you paranoid. I can smell weakness and the stench from your sweating has just reached my nostrils. It seems you have finally realised that we will not actually let China off the hook for Covid etc and that any nation who opposes our grand coalition will be destroyed. As I say, Russia is being given one last chance. Unfortunately, Putin is a bit manic at the moment and is incapable of comprehending the size of either the stick or the carrot. That is because he under-estimates the extraordinary resilience of democratic will. He just doesn't understand that we thrive on chaos and use it to our advantage. So maybe you are correct. We may decide that a nuclear first strike is the cheapest, easiest option available to us. We are all getting tired of policing the world at great cost for little progress. Might be much easier and cheaper to drop a nuke here and there? If it were up to me, I would start with Pyongyang and Tehran, just to send a subtle hint.

North Korea is a US peer competitor, and you are not.  See that

https://www.ctbto.org/the-treaty/developments-after-1996/2017-sept-dprk/

Lithium deuteride fusion nuke. No limit to size or to how many you can build, no tedious extraction of fissionable materials required. Also got the means of delivery to anywhere in US, courtesy of Yuzhmash of Ukraine. Goes without saying, to Australia, too, if needs to be. Next time, watch where you sponsor color revolutions in. The hint is, maybe you shouldn't put yourself and Americans into the same sentence as "us"? They have at least a MAD situation with Kim. Yourselves can be nuked with impunity. So, you shouldn't get ahead of American steamroller perhaps?

As far as Russia is concerned, it is unassailable in terms of military tech. Not only by backward Aussies, but by anybody at all. We won the arms race. Maybe they forgot to inform you on that. Now what?

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14 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Yes, the imports are for diversity. Russia is a net exporter of agricultural goods though. Kicking US from #1 position in grain, among other things, leading to a bust time. Thanks to your "sanctions" I would say it is President Putin who has his foot firmly on Mr. Biden's carotid. What are you gonna do, a naval blockade?

No kick Russia out of the International Bank of Settlements.  At that point you cannot exchange the Ruble for any foreign currency. you use direct barter .    At that  point all foreign  Russian assets are frozen.   Ask the Japanese how the asset freeze and expulsion from IBS  worked out in 1941.  Also Russian oil exports cannot charter  foreign flag vessels nor can they enter Russian harbors.   Cargoes and ships headed for Russia cannot be insured. How are you going to export you grain with no port of call. Ask the Iranians  and Venezuela about barter trade and problems with the International Maritime Organization.   Your ships can't buy fuel in foreign ports.   How do your ships get home?

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2 hours ago, Andrew Neopalimy said:

Сausing "unacceptable harm" of what scale or method will the United States accept as a reason for admitting defeat in war?
Can it be enough to cut off your electricity and communication with navigation? After all, Russians activate EMP (electromagnetic pulse) at any altitude, depth and range - in all spheres / domains.

Or is it still заЯдренить (to force) the USA into glass ... along with the Western Cape of Eurasia? Только дайте повод - мы мигом, даже обосраться не успеете.
Forecast: Russia will destroy / "inflict irreparable damage" on the United States in the period 2025 - 20230. By delivering a "preemptive" / preemptive nuclear strike "at the appointed time" on the US / NATO. )))
Congratulations to you with Russian Happy Russian New Year and Russians years in general.

Pretty stupid. "But as Winston Churchill said in 1952, "If you go on with this nuclear arms race, all you are going to do is make the rubble bounce." That was just two years after America tested the first hydrogen bomb, and five years before the United States deployed the first ICBM.

You are totally ignorant of nuclear physics and the impact of nuclear weapons on the geomagnetic sphere. Never heard of Starfish Prime have you. No one has had a nuclear first strike and survive capability since about 1958.  Their own weapons kill them later.  The EMP from multiple nukes would  make Chicxulub crater look like a Sunday stroll. If you or your leaders are stupid enough to try, bend over and kiss your ass and all life on earth good by.  we go quickly, you get to starve to death.

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32 minutes ago, nsdp said:

No kick Russia out of the International Bank of Settlements.  At that point you cannot exchange the Ruble for any foreign currency. you use direct barter .    At that  point all foreign  Russian assets are frozen.   Ask the Japanese how the asset freeze and expulsion from IBS  worked out in 1941.  Also Russian oil exports cannot charter  foreign flag vessels nor can they enter Russian harbors.   Cargoes and ships headed for Russia cannot be insured. How are you going to export you grain with no port of call. Ask the Iranians  and Venezuela about barter trade and problems with the International Maritime Organization.   Your ships can't buy fuel in foreign ports.   How do your ships get home?

Don't think that you can swing an expulsion of Russia from an international organization. Which, according to Wiki, never expelled anyone, but lay dormant for duration of WWII. You can always use direct barter. Russian oil exports are mostly by direct pipeline.

Basically, I see nothing but powerless rage. You are abusing Iran and Venezuela in entirely lawless fashion, because you think you can. Cannot do this with Russia.

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On 1/8/2022 at 8:20 AM, Wombat One said:

 I told you, I eat dictators for breakfast. I believe that if I can topple the worlds 2 most powerful dictators, Xitler and Putin, the rest will fall like dominoes. First, I have to crush political correctness in the West. Thankfully, I don't have to try very hard coz everyone is starting to see it for what it is.

Is this guy for real??

He expects you to believe he has the ear of political leaders around the world and yet wastes his time on oilprice.com day and night...

If you believe any of his garbage you are the joke.  Only a few steps away from mythical Krakens and landscaping company parking lot press conferences.

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12 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Is this guy for real??

He expects you to believe he has the ear of political leaders around the world and yet wastes his time on oilprice.com day and night...

If you believe any of his garbage you are the joke.  Only a few steps away from mythical Krakens and landscaping company parking lot press conferences.

As you see, public forums such as this often fall prey to deranged people.

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20 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Is this guy for real??

He expects you to believe he has the ear of political leaders around the world and yet wastes his time on oilprice.com day and night...

If you believe any of his garbage you are the joke.  Only a few steps away from mythical Krakens and landscaping company parking lot press conferences.

Everybody has to do their research you fool. Gauging Russian sentiment and listening to their propaganda is part of my job. So is being up to date on oil politics and energy developments more generally. All central to geo-politics ICYMI? Do you really think the CIA is not interested in the responses that I tend to illicit here?

LMAO

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34 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

I'm sure 0R0 is getting arrested somewhere...not because of you, because of his criminal acts.

FYI you should "elicit" responses not write illicit ones.

You are smaller than the Borg

Least we forget the Big E has been vanquished, and it's mindless bloviating...Borg...WTF.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/us/politics/us-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html

U.S. Details Costs of a Russian Invasion of Ukraine

The Biden administration and its allies are assembling a punishing set of financial, technology and military sanctions against Russia that they say would go into effect within hours of an invasion of Ukraine, hoping to make clear to President Vladimir V. Putin the high cost he would pay if he sends troops across the border.

The plans the United States has discussed with allies in recent days include cutting off Russia’s largest financial institutions from global transactions, imposing an embargo on American-made or American-designed technology needed for defense-related and consumer industries, and arming insurgents in Ukraine who would conduct what would amount to a guerrilla war against a Russian military occupation, if it comes to that.

 

American diplomats worry that after the whirlwind week, the Russians could declare that their security concerns are not being met — and use the failure of talks as a justification for military action. “No one should be surprised if Russia instigates a provocation or incident,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said on Friday, and “then tries to use it to justify military intervention, hoping that by the time the world realizes the ruse, it’ll be too late.”

This time, he said, “we’ve been clear with Russia about what it will face if it continues on this path, including economic measures that we haven’t used before — massive consequences.”

Rather than start with moves against small banks and on-the-ground military commanders, officials said, the new sanctions would be directed at cutting off the largest Russian financial institutions that depend on global financial transfers. The plan was described by one official as a “high-impact, quick-action response that we did not pursue in 2014.”

The technology sanctions would target some of Mr. Putin’s favored industries — particularly aerospace and arms, which are major producers of revenue for the Russian government. The focus would be on Russian-built fighter aircraft, antiaircraft systems, antisatellite systems, space systems and emerging technologies where Russia is hoping to make gains, like artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

In one additional step, according to American officials, the Commerce Department could issue a ruling that would essentially ban the export of any consumer goods to Russia — from cellphones and laptop computers to refrigerators and washing machines — that contain American-made or American-designed electronics. That would apply not only to American makers, but also to European, South Korean and other foreign manufacturers that use American chips or software.

Unlike China, Russia does not make many of these products — and the effects on consumers could be broad.

But a senior European official said there was still a debate about whether the Russian people would blame Mr. Putin, or the United States and its allies, for their inability to buy the goods.

While the Commerce and Treasury Departments work on sanctions that would maximize America’s advantages over Russia, the Pentagon is developing plans that have echoes of the proxy wars of the 1960s and ’70s.

To underscore the potential pain for Russia, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, spoke with his Russian counterpart two weeks ago and delivered a stark message: Yes, he said, you could invade Ukraine and probably roll over the Ukrainian military, which stands little chance of repelling a far larger, better armed Russian force.

But the swift victory would be followed, General Milley told Gen. Valery Gerasimov, by a bloody insurgency, similar to the one that led to the Soviet retreat from Afghanistan more than three decades ago, according to officials familiar with the discussion.

General Milley did not detail to General Gerasimov the planning underway in Washington to support an insurgency, a so-called “porcupine strategy” to make invading Ukraine hard for the Russians to swallow. That includes the advance positioning of arms for Ukrainian insurgents, probably including Stinger antiaircraft missiles, that could be used against Russian forces.

Intelligence officials said recently that they thought the least likely possibility was a full-scale invasion in which the Russians try to take the capital, Kyiv. Many of the assessments, however, have explored more incremental moves by Mr. Putin, which could include seizing a bit more land in the Donbas region, where war has ground into a stalemate, or a land bridge to Crimea.

Several officials familiar with the planning say the administration is looking at European nations that could provide more aid to support Ukrainian forces before any conflict, as well as in the initial stages of a Russian invasion.

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So it sounds like Putin at best could seize some more more of the Donbas at the cost of the Russian economy being torpedoed for the next 10 years.

Fair exchange? Who knows, maybe Putin is crazy enough to take that deal.

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1 hour ago, surrept33 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/us/politics/us-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html

U.S. Details Costs of a Russian Invasion of Ukraine

The Biden administration and its allies are assembling a punishing set of financial, technology and military sanctions against Russia that they say would go into effect within hours of an invasion of Ukraine, hoping to make clear to President Vladimir V. Putin the high cost he would pay if he sends troops across the border.

The plans the United States has discussed with allies in recent days include cutting off Russia’s largest financial institutions from global transactions, imposing an embargo on American-made or American-designed technology needed for defense-related and consumer industries, and arming insurgents in Ukraine who would conduct what would amount to a guerrilla war against a Russian military occupation, if it comes to that.

 

American diplomats worry that after the whirlwind week, the Russians could declare that their security concerns are not being met — and use the failure of talks as a justification for military action. “No one should be surprised if Russia instigates a provocation or incident,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said on Friday, and “then tries to use it to justify military intervention, hoping that by the time the world realizes the ruse, it’ll be too late.”

This time, he said, “we’ve been clear with Russia about what it will face if it continues on this path, including economic measures that we haven’t used before — massive consequences.”

Rather than start with moves against small banks and on-the-ground military commanders, officials said, the new sanctions would be directed at cutting off the largest Russian financial institutions that depend on global financial transfers. The plan was described by one official as a “high-impact, quick-action response that we did not pursue in 2014.”

The technology sanctions would target some of Mr. Putin’s favored industries — particularly aerospace and arms, which are major producers of revenue for the Russian government. The focus would be on Russian-built fighter aircraft, antiaircraft systems, antisatellite systems, space systems and emerging technologies where Russia is hoping to make gains, like artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

In one additional step, according to American officials, the Commerce Department could issue a ruling that would essentially ban the export of any consumer goods to Russia — from cellphones and laptop computers to refrigerators and washing machines — that contain American-made or American-designed electronics. That would apply not only to American makers, but also to European, South Korean and other foreign manufacturers that use American chips or software.

Unlike China, Russia does not make many of these products — and the effects on consumers could be broad.

But a senior European official said there was still a debate about whether the Russian people would blame Mr. Putin, or the United States and its allies, for their inability to buy the goods.

While the Commerce and Treasury Departments work on sanctions that would maximize America’s advantages over Russia, the Pentagon is developing plans that have echoes of the proxy wars of the 1960s and ’70s.

To underscore the potential pain for Russia, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, spoke with his Russian counterpart two weeks ago and delivered a stark message: Yes, he said, you could invade Ukraine and probably roll over the Ukrainian military, which stands little chance of repelling a far larger, better armed Russian force.

But the swift victory would be followed, General Milley told Gen. Valery Gerasimov, by a bloody insurgency, similar to the one that led to the Soviet retreat from Afghanistan more than three decades ago, according to officials familiar with the discussion.

General Milley did not detail to General Gerasimov the planning underway in Washington to support an insurgency, a so-called “porcupine strategy” to make invading Ukraine hard for the Russians to swallow. That includes the advance positioning of arms for Ukrainian insurgents, probably including Stinger antiaircraft missiles, that could be used against Russian forces.

Intelligence officials said recently that they thought the least likely possibility was a full-scale invasion in which the Russians try to take the capital, Kyiv. Many of the assessments, however, have explored more incremental moves by Mr. Putin, which could include seizing a bit more land in the Donbas region, where war has ground into a stalemate, or a land bridge to Crimea.

Several officials familiar with the planning say the administration is looking at European nations that could provide more aid to support Ukrainian forces before any conflict, as well as in the initial stages of a Russian invasion.

If this does not prove how deranged the Amurcuns are, what will?  US is TRYING to use economic sanctions, because that is all the US has left to use, but none are working, because they cannot work. Doing something repeatedly and expecting different results each time is the definition of deranged.  It means the US is desperate.

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21 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Yes, the imports are for diversity. Russia is a net exporter of agricultural goods though. Kicking US from #1 position in grain, among other things, leading to a bust time. Thanks to your "sanctions" I would say it is President Putin who has his foot firmly on Mr. Biden's carotid. What are you gonna do, a naval blockade?

I see vodka has not lost its appeal. A thought here, a maddening tirate cannot displace the nuclear triad nor the agricultural output of the US.

Now you once stated the Ukraine was a broken country, yet at the same time only the Ukraine can come close to the US agricultural output.

This I will say you most certainty have a creative mind....although a bit disturbed.

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5 hours ago, surrept33 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/08/us/politics/us-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html

U.S. Details Costs of a Russian Invasion of Ukraine

The Biden administration and its allies are assembling a punishing set of financial, technology and military sanctions against Russia that they say would go into effect within hours of an invasion of Ukraine, hoping to make clear to President Vladimir V. Putin the high cost he would pay if he sends troops across the border.

The plans the United States has discussed with allies in recent days include cutting off Russia’s largest financial institutions from global transactions, imposing an embargo on American-made or American-designed technology needed for defense-related and consumer industries, and arming insurgents in Ukraine who would conduct what would amount to a guerrilla war against a Russian military occupation, if it comes to that.

 

American diplomats worry that after the whirlwind week, the Russians could declare that their security concerns are not being met — and use the failure of talks as a justification for military action. “No one should be surprised if Russia instigates a provocation or incident,” Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said on Friday, and “then tries to use it to justify military intervention, hoping that by the time the world realizes the ruse, it’ll be too late.”

This time, he said, “we’ve been clear with Russia about what it will face if it continues on this path, including economic measures that we haven’t used before — massive consequences.”

Rather than start with moves against small banks and on-the-ground military commanders, officials said, the new sanctions would be directed at cutting off the largest Russian financial institutions that depend on global financial transfers. The plan was described by one official as a “high-impact, quick-action response that we did not pursue in 2014.”

The technology sanctions would target some of Mr. Putin’s favored industries — particularly aerospace and arms, which are major producers of revenue for the Russian government. The focus would be on Russian-built fighter aircraft, antiaircraft systems, antisatellite systems, space systems and emerging technologies where Russia is hoping to make gains, like artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

In one additional step, according to American officials, the Commerce Department could issue a ruling that would essentially ban the export of any consumer goods to Russia — from cellphones and laptop computers to refrigerators and washing machines — that contain American-made or American-designed electronics. That would apply not only to American makers, but also to European, South Korean and other foreign manufacturers that use American chips or software.

Unlike China, Russia does not make many of these products — and the effects on consumers could be broad.

But a senior European official said there was still a debate about whether the Russian people would blame Mr. Putin, or the United States and its allies, for their inability to buy the goods.

While the Commerce and Treasury Departments work on sanctions that would maximize America’s advantages over Russia, the Pentagon is developing plans that have echoes of the proxy wars of the 1960s and ’70s.

To underscore the potential pain for Russia, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, spoke with his Russian counterpart two weeks ago and delivered a stark message: Yes, he said, you could invade Ukraine and probably roll over the Ukrainian military, which stands little chance of repelling a far larger, better armed Russian force.

But the swift victory would be followed, General Milley told Gen. Valery Gerasimov, by a bloody insurgency, similar to the one that led to the Soviet retreat from Afghanistan more than three decades ago, according to officials familiar with the discussion.

General Milley did not detail to General Gerasimov the planning underway in Washington to support an insurgency, a so-called “porcupine strategy” to make invading Ukraine hard for the Russians to swallow. That includes the advance positioning of arms for Ukrainian insurgents, probably including Stinger antiaircraft missiles, that could be used against Russian forces.

Intelligence officials said recently that they thought the least likely possibility was a full-scale invasion in which the Russians try to take the capital, Kyiv. Many of the assessments, however, have explored more incremental moves by Mr. Putin, which could include seizing a bit more land in the Donbas region, where war has ground into a stalemate, or a land bridge to Crimea.

Several officials familiar with the planning say the administration is looking at European nations that could provide more aid to support Ukrainian forces before any conflict, as well as in the initial stages of a Russian invasion.

Banning US consumer goods is the stupidest thing I ever heard. They must be grasping for straws.

Of course  the Russian people are smart enough to know who to blame for the sanctions - Americans. You WILL have to pay us the damages back.

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3 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Of course  the Russian people are smart enough to know who to blame for the sanctions - Americans. You WILL have to pay us the damages back.

good luck with that.

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(edited)

Both USSR and US did not trust Ho and viewed him as the other side. Ho wanted to use the King to united both sides of Vietnam, given that China at that time was not Communist Party but KMT (Communist Party has been chased the the Western side of China for the Long March for regeneration and preparing for the civil war against the KMT after WW2). However US needed France and UK for the Cold War so gave yield. France and UK needed the colonial resources to rebuild the country. 

After the civil war in China, KMT ran to Taiwan, Chinese Communist Party & USSR  helped Ho against France occupation so Communism was the only choice for Ho.

Ho&Giap lost power against Duan because of the land reformation in 1954, following Communism ideology in North Vietnam. Some Ho's allies against France even  move south to join South Vietnam because they did not approve Land Reformation. Ho later cried and admitted his mistakes. Duan was not part of the land reformation because he was activist in South Vietnam liberation front aka Viet Cong before came to the north and get the real power. 

Little known that Ford has offered some form of normalization to Vietnam right after the war but maybe out of arrogance or under USSR pressure, Duan asked for 3billion reparation which Ford declined because that is a humiliation (Duan should change the word reparation to aids to have more chance). Given economy of US at that time (officially gave up gold standard few years ago) , I don't think any aid would pass through the congress to an ex enemy. Later on Carter became president abandoned this approach.

After the death of Stalin , USSR and China got into quarrel  which lead to normalization between Nixon and Mao (and Deng after Mao). USSR became the only sponsor/lender to North Vietnam while China tried to stop the supply from USSR on sea. Duan considered this as a betrayal and cut ties to China. 

During the Vietnam War, the North used Cambodia as path to supply to the Vietcong in the south with the help of Red Khmer with some implication that Vietnam will give Cambodia some land back (which arguably was own by Cambodia but colonialized and developed by Vietnam few hundreds year back as mostly was waste land).

After the War, Duan ignored this.  Red Khmer Polpot  came to power in Cambodia as Lol nol has no support since US withdrawal from South Vietnam while Red Khmer was supported by China against USSR and Vietnam . The "rich" people in urban treated badly while the rural support Polpot with the classical land reformation but worst, ,this regime hate anyone appear to be educated. 

Red Khmer regularly raid and genocide border towns in south Vietnam and even asked for Saigon back. Duan ensured the promised of USSR to put pressure on the north of China and Vietnam "heed the call" of Hussein and  invaded Cambodia to remove the Red Khmer. Red Khmer got supported from Thailand which was a US ally during Vietnam War and the Royal Army of Thailand even clash with Vietnam on the seek of Red Khmer. This with the sanction imposed by the US is where anti US propaganda that US support Khmer Rouge. To be fair only USSR and Eastern Bloc supported Vietnam.

The war ended quick yet Vietnam got stuck in guerilla welfare for 10 years, just like what the US faced in South Vietnam. Vietnam was isolated and sanctioned (not for the Vietnam war but for the invasion of Cambodia). Please not that at this time no-one believed Vietnam about their was a genocide caused by Khmer Rouged (which later on confirmed by Australia journalists). Because Red Khmer is a communist Regime, current Cambodia Government is not a communism country but still have good relationship with Vietnam but the opposition party constantly asked Vietnam to give back the land in south Vietnam.

Deng just won against the Gang of Four and wanted to consolidate his power. He used the excuse of Vietnam invaded Cambodia and needed to teach Vietnam a lesson, invaded VN in the north while most of the veteran was in Cambodia. But even the reserved army in Vietnam got battle hardened experience than China Army so China pulled back before the battalions of Vietnam got back from Cambodia. USSR didn't do anything in the north China border but offered transportation for the troops from Cambodia back to the north Vietnam.

Deng succeeded in consolidating his power and reformed China economy. Vietnam still got sanctioned and still got stuck in guerilla  warfare with Khmer Rouge in the south and border skirmish with China in the North (China using this border skirmish to modernize their warfare to catch up. However both Vietnam and China was awed with the new style of US warfare during Gulf War).

When the USSR collapsed along with the Western Bloc, there is 2 factions among communist party in Vietnam:  Go for democracy like Eastern Europe or reforming like China. The pro-China faction got a treaty with China, withdraw the occupation from Cambodia and emerged. Unlike Eastern Bloc, the Vietnamese casted their vote during the civil war and boatman so it is very risky for Vietnam Communist Party to give up their power. Hussein understandably hated Vietnam for this and turned to China as well, why does he need a middle man. 

-------------------------------------

Since Pearl Habor, US was the major supply of food, steel and weapon to anyone against the Axis. With the Soviet Union, US supplied foods, steels and especially fuel for aircrafts. That was how Soviet Union could spam tanks to counter Germany. That is why Hitler was so rushing in the war with Soviet Union as time was not in Axis side, they couldn't compete the supply production with the US and half of any war fight in the logistic side. 

If only Japan didn't go south for China (which was a share market of US,UK, France) but heeded Hitler call to the north for Russia. US may not join the war but even may keep trading with Japan ( Japan-Russia war predated WW2 so technically it should not a war declaration against Allies) and Japan may avoid the 2 nukes. We will never know how would this end for all sides. 

 

-----------------------------------

 Kuomintang (KMT) was considered ally with US for their war with Japan in WW2 (They were  assigned de-arm Japan in Vietnam and looting and ignore Ho but wanted to talk to the King). Communist Party in China  did fight along side KMT against Japan pre WW2, but Chiang Kai-shek tried to destroy them first which caused the Long March.  Chiang Kai-shek tried to destroy the last base of Communist Party in  Xi'an  but was kidnapped by Chang Hsueh-liang (who was thinking Chiang should against Japan first). CCP did not took part in WW2 but the civil war later on.

------------------------------------

This is why I don't line mainstream or history class in school in either Vietnam or around the world. They don't broadcast real history but only part that fits the propaganda and therefor mostly half true, even everything happened less than 100 years ago and have countless of historical evidences from all sides but people won't have time to do their own research but let mainstream think for them. Politicians won't be broadcasting real history which exposed that they were the reason for WW1, WW2 and the consequences wars.  Ironically the more internet, the less true journalism.

Edited by SUZNV
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On 12/4/2021 at 3:37 AM, Tomasz said:

It is the West that wants war, not Russia.

Just listen to this Norwegian Quisling, who is currently at the head of NATO.

Only that he wants Eastern European "subhumans" to die in this war, ie Ukrainians, Poles, Balts and Russians.

The reason is in geopolitics, i.e. it is in the clash between the West and China.

To this end, it uses Ukrainian nationalism, just as Hitler used it during the Second World War.

Yesterday, a Western journalist asked Putin when his red line would be crossed. Putin replied that when either NATO or the US deploy their missiles near Kharkov, they would reach Moscow within five minutes.

And this is a matter of life and death for Russia.

But not for the West. The West doesn't need these rockets to survive. And that is why the situation is so dangerous, because the Russians cannot simply ignore this threat.

In 1962, President Kennedy was ready to start a nuclear war with the USSR because Soviet nuclear missiles were deployed in Cuba. However, Cuba is further from Washington than Kharkiv is from Moscow.

Florida, home of Mira Lago and Donald J. Trump. 

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(edited)

4 hours ago, SUZNV said:

Both USSR and US did not trust Ho and viewed him as the other side. Ho wanted to use the King to united both sides of Vietnam, given that China at that time was not Communist Party but KMT (Communist Party has been chased the the Western side of China for the Long March for regeneration and preparing for the civil war against the KMT after WW2). However US needed France and UK for the Cold War so gave yield. France and UK needed the colonial resources to rebuild the country. 

After the civil war in China, KMT ran to Taiwan, Chinese Communist Party & USSR  helped Ho against France occupation so Communism was the only choice for Ho.

Ho&Giap lost power against Duan because of the land reformation in 1954, following Communism ideology in North Vietnam. Some Ho's allies against France even  move south to join South Vietnam because they did not approve Land Reformation. Ho later cried and admitted his mistakes. Duan was not part of the land reformation because he was activist in South Vietnam liberation front aka Viet Cong before came to the north and get the real power. 

Little known that Ford has offered some form of normalization to Vietnam right after the war but maybe out of arrogance or under USSR pressure, Duan asked for 3billion reparation which Ford declined because that is a humiliation (Duan should change the word reparation to aids to have more chance). Given economy of US at that time (officially gave up gold standard few years ago) , I don't think any aid would pass through the congress to an ex enemy. Later on Carter became president abandoned this approach.

After the death of Stalin , USSR and China got into quarrel  which lead to normalization between Nixon and Mao (and Deng after Mao). USSR became the only sponsor/lender to North Vietnam while China tried to stop the supply from USSR on sea. Duan considered this as a betrayal and cut ties to China. 

During the Vietnam War, the North used Cambodia as path to supply to the Vietcong in the south with the help of Red Khmer with some implication that Vietnam will give Cambodia some land back (which arguably was own by Cambodia but colonialized and developed by Vietnam few hundreds year back as mostly was waste land).

After the War, Duan ignored this.  Red Khmer Polpot  came to power in Cambodia as Lol nol has no support since US withdrawal from South Vietnam while Red Khmer was supported by China against USSR and Vietnam . The "rich" people in urban treated badly while the rural support Polpot with the classical land reformation but worst, ,this regime hate anyone appear to be educated. 

Red Khmer regularly raid and genocide border towns in south Vietnam and even asked for Saigon back. Duan ensured the promised of USSR to put pressure on the north of China and Vietnam "heed the call" of Hussein and  invaded Cambodia to remove the Red Khmer. Red Khmer got supported from Thailand which was a US ally during Vietnam War and the Royal Army of Thailand even clash with Vietnam on the seek of Red Khmer. This with the sanction imposed by the US is where anti US propaganda that US support Khmer Rouge. To be fair only USSR and Eastern Bloc supported Vietnam.

The war ended quick yet Vietnam got stuck in guerilla welfare for 10 years, just like what the US faced in South Vietnam. Vietnam was isolated and sanctioned (not for the Vietnam war but for the invasion of Cambodia). Please not that at this time no-one believed Vietnam about their was a genocide caused by Khmer Rouged (which later on confirmed by Australia journalists). Because Red Khmer is a communist Regime, current Cambodia Government is not a communism country but still have good relationship with Vietnam but the opposition party constantly asked Vietnam to give back the land in south Vietnam.

Deng just won against the Gang of Four and wanted to consolidate his power. He used the excuse of Vietnam invaded Cambodia and needed to teach Vietnam a lesson, invaded VN in the north while most of the veteran was in Cambodia. But even the reserved army in Vietnam got battle hardened experience than China Army so China pulled back before the battalions of Vietnam got back from Cambodia. USSR didn't do anything in the north China border but offered transportation for the troops from Cambodia back to the north Vietnam.

Deng succeeded in consolidating his power and reformed China economy. Vietnam still got sanctioned and still got stuck in guerilla  warfare with Khmer Rouge in the south and border skirmish with China in the North (China using this border skirmish to modernize their warfare to catch up. However both Vietnam and China was awed with the new style of US warfare during Gulf War).

When the USSR collapsed along with the Western Bloc, there is 2 factions among communist party in Vietnam:  Go for democracy like Eastern Europe or reforming like China. The pro-China faction got a treaty with China, withdraw the occupation from Cambodia and emerged. Unlike Eastern Bloc, the Vietnamese casted their vote during the civil war and boatman so it is very risky for Vietnam Communist Party to give up their power. Hussein understandably hated Vietnam for this and turned to China as well, why does he need a middle man. 

-------------------------------------

Since Pearl Habor, US was the major supply of food, steel and weapon to anyone against the Axis. With the Soviet Union, US supplied foods, steels and especially fuel for aircrafts. That was how Soviet Union could spam tanks to counter Germany. That is why Hitler was so rushing in the war with Soviet Union as time was not in Axis side, they couldn't compete the supply production with the US and half of any war fight in the logistic side. 

If only Japan didn't go south for China (which was a share market of US,UK, France) but heeded Hitler call to the north for Russia. US may not join the war but even may keep trading with Japan ( Japan-Russia war predated WW2 so technically it should not a war declaration against Allies) and Japan may avoid the 2 nukes. We will never know how would this end for all sides. 

 

-----------------------------------

 Kuomintang (KMT) was considered ally with US for their war with Japan in WW2 (They were  assigned de-arm Japan in Vietnam and looting and ignore Ho but wanted to talk to the King). Communist Party in China  did fight along side KMT against Japan pre WW2, but Chiang Kai-shek tried to destroy them first which caused the Long March.  Chiang Kai-shek tried to destroy the last base of Communist Party in  Xi'an  but was kidnapped by Chang Hsueh-liang (who was thinking Chiang should against Japan first). CCP did not took part in WW2 but the civil war later on.

------------------------------------

This is why I don't line mainstream or history class in school in either Vietnam or around the world. They don't broadcast real history but only part that fits the propaganda and therefor mostly half true, even everything happened less than 100 years ago and have countless of historical evidences from all sides but people won't have time to do their own research but let mainstream think for them. Politicians won't be broadcasting real history which exposed that they were the reason for WW1, WW2 and the consequences wars.  Ironically the more internet, the less true journalism.

Almost all American educational institutions, especially colleges, promote socialism. They are materialistic and not anything like those that founded the colleges. Fortunately many students will learn better on their own and figure things out. They see what Covid restrictions and abuses have done to countries and all of the economic damage. They have seen the lies of the governments in the name of a false god called "science" which is really propaganda and not open to those scientists who know better. 

Edited by ronwagn
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23 hours ago, surrept33 said:

So it sounds like Putin at best could seize some more more of the Donbas at the cost of the Russian economy being torpedoed for the next 10 years.

Fair exchange? Who knows, maybe Putin is crazy enough to take that deal.

 Why ten years and not for as long as he lives and a good leader takes over. He is an evil dictator. 

Edited by ronwagn
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On 1/9/2022 at 2:15 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Yes, the imports are for diversity. Russia is a net exporter of agricultural goods though. Kicking US from #1 position in grain, among other things, leading to a bust time. Thanks to your "sanctions" I would say it is President Putin who has his foot firmly on Mr. Biden's carotid. What are you gonna do, a naval blockade?

https://www.upi.com/Voices/2022/01/10/kazakhstan-Russia-Kazakhstan-Ukraine-playbook-Vladimir-Putin/8111641818501/

 

 
JAN. 10, 2022 / 8:02 AM

In Kazakhstan, Russia follows a playbook it developed in Ukraine

By Lena Surzhko Harned, Penn State
   
In Kazakhstan, Russia follows a playbook it developed in Ukraine
Riot police officers block a street during a protest rally over a hike in energy prices in Almaty, Kazakhstan, on Wednesday. Protesters stormed the mayor's office in Almaty, as Kazakh President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev declared a state of emergency in the capital. Photo by EPA-EFE

 

Jan. 10 (UPI) -- Add Kazakhstan to the list of former Soviet republics whose independence is being threatened by Russia. Russian leader Vladimir Putin is using a similar playbook in Kazakhstan to one that he has used over almost a decade to threaten the sovereignty of Ukraine.

What began as protests over rising fuel prices on Jan. 2, quickly escalated into violent clashes on the streets of Kazakhstan. On Wednesday, Kazakhstan President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev, a firm ally of Putin's, requested support from the Collective Security Treaty Organization, of which Putin's Russian Federation is the leading member. Russia has responded decisively by sending paratroopers, special operations troops and equipment as part of a nearly 3,000-strong force to Kazakhstan.

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Tokayev explained his request by claiming that protesters are really "a band of terrorists" trained abroad. On Friday, Tokayev escalated the conflict: "I have given the order to law enforcement and the army to shoot to kill without warning," Tokayev said.

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As a scholar of post-Soviet Ukraine, Russia's involvement in Kazakhstan looks very familiar to me. It's similar to what happened in Ukraine beginning in 2014, when peaceful protesters were met with violence by the government and a protest grew into a revolution that ultimately overthrew the Russian-backed leadership of the country.

 

Dangerous neighborhood

Seizing on that moment of domestic unrest in 2014, Putin gave direct orders to annex Crimea, a Ukrainian territory home to a key Russian naval base. Shortly afterward, he supported a war mounted by so-called Russian-speaking separatists in Ukraine's eastern regions.

For more than eight years now, the Russian Federation has continued to support that conflict in Ukraine and has recently threatened Ukraine with a full invasion. This most recent version of Putin's aggression toward Ukraine came in November, when he staged 175,000 troops along the Ukraine border. His goal: to use a potential invasion as leverage to stop Ukraine from joining the alliance of Western countries known as NATO.

 

In Kazakhstan, as in Ukraine in 2014, the Russian government explains its military presence as appropriate and requested by a legitimate government. As in Ukraine, the Russian government emphasizes that external forces are responsible for unrest in the former Soviet republic. As in Ukraine, the Russian Federation has pointed out the need to protect a Russian-speaking population.

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These tendencies of the Russian government to assert dominion over former territories that it lost during the breakup of the Soviet empire demonstrate that Russia is willing to act quickly and do anything to keep control of its neighborhood. I see this as an important message about what the Western leaders can expect from a meeting with Russian officials in Geneva on Monday to discuss the conflict building again along Ukraine's border and Russia's demands that NATO not expand to Ukraine.

Soviet and Russian legacies

 

Russia has long seen Kazakhstan as within its sphere of influence. In a press conference on Dec. 23, Putin called Kazakhstan a "Russian-speaking country in every sense of the word."

Earlier Putin claimed that before the collapse of the Soviet Union, "Kazakhs never had a state of their own." In December 2020, two members of Russia's parliament claimed that territories of northern Kazakhstan were "a big gift" from Russia to Kazakhstan.

Such claims are reminiscent of the language that Putin has applied to Ukraine. He has often claimed that Ukraine was not a real country, including in an article published by the Kremlin in July, in which he claimed that "modern Ukraine is entirely the product of the Soviet era."

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The use of the same terminology does not bode well for Kazakhstan.

Putin's references to a Russian-speaking population in Kazakhstan are reminiscent of the experience of Ukraine's Crimea region. In April 2014, Russian soldiers appeared on the streets of Crimea, forced Ukrainian soldiers to leave their posts, and oversaw a so-called referendum that allowed for Crimea to be integrated into the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation said then, and continues to claim, that its interest in Ukraine is a continued concern for the welfare of the Russian speakers in Ukraine, which in Russia's view is being oppressed.

Controversial Russian politician Vladimir Zhirinovski claimed on Jan. 6, 2021, that Russian speakers in Kazakhstan are similarly oppressed by Kazakh language requirements. Zhirinovski is a radical figure in Russian politics, but it is usually assumed that he voices the more extreme claims of the Russian government.

Protecting from foreign invaders

Tokayev claimed that the protests in his country were fueled by the "free press" and foreign forces who were sponsoring terrorist activity in his country. The Russian government willingly accepted this terminology. Tokayev did not specify which external forces he meant.

Putin has long claimed that the Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine in 2014, which ousted his ally, President Viktor Yanukovich, was really a coup sponsored and coordinated by the United States.

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Similar arguments about outside influences were made by the embattled Belarusian dictator, Alexander Lukashenko, about the anti-government protesters in Russia-aligned Belarus in 2020.

The spokeswoman for the Russia Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova, said on Thursday that there is a need to stop extremism in Kazakhstan. Her words came in response to European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell's concerns over the Russian troop deployment.

This consistent message supports Putin's narrative about the need to protect Russia and the countries in its neighborhood against what he regards as destabilizing influences like the United States and NATO, which, according to Putin, support and promote anti-government extremists and revolutions in the region.

Show of strength

Putin continues to cultivate an image as a decisive leader who responded to a call from a neighboring country to "help Kazakhstan overcome this terrorist threat."

His actions in Kazakhstan, I believe, are aimed at both internal and foreign audiences.

Domestically, Russian media see Russian troops as a part of a multilateral peacekeeping response, which includes troops from Belarus and Armenia. Deployment of so-called peacekeeping forces in Kazakhstan in the middle of instability and violence will be portrayed in Russia as a huge achievement for Putin.

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This is also a message to Ukraine and the West. Putin will not hesitate to show strength to achieve Russia's goals. Russia now has nearly 100,000 troops along the Ukrainian border. And while there was a reported withdrawal of 10,000 soldiers in late December in a de-escalation effort, most of the troops and military equipment remain.

Geneva outlook

Negotiations in diplomacy require compromise. However, Russia is entering the talks in Geneva with an ultimatum toward NATO and the United States.

Russia's demands, according to Reuters, include a "halt to NATO enlargement, no deployment of its weapons systems in Ukraine and an end to provocative military exercises" in the region.

Russian action in Kazakhstan should serve as a sobering reminder to Western countries that Russia is willing to act decisively to protect its interests and retain its influence in the neighboring countries. The Conversation

Lena Surzhko Harned is an assistant teaching professor of political science at Penn State.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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The views and opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

Almost all American educational institutions, especially colleges, promote socialism. They are materialistic and not anything like those that founded the colleges. Fortunately many students will lean better on their own and figure things out. They see what Covid restrictions and abuses have done to countries and all of the economic damage. They have seen the lies of the governments in the name of a false god called "science" which is really propaganda and not open to those scientists who know better. 

Propaganda was based on chopping up a long stream of history/event/truth bit by bit, which leaves room to inject lies or cherry picking facts. 

While politicians around the world was busying stirring up nationalism or blaming other countries and covering their lies. It is too bad most US people was busy with life and stocks and worrying for retirements or sometimes entitlement and vote based on what they think will benefit them the most in short term without really being informed the geopolitical pictures and history. Any problem in the world will blame the US first hand while ignore all the good part US did, for example: no WW3 and putting out the Marshal Plan for Western Europe competing welfare with Eastern bloc socialism and Russia, which now in turn, becoming the Welfare Standard that the Liberal in US was seeking for. 

Regardless of Trump, MAGA is just a political slogan yet the response from US newspapers is fascism, populism, US has never been great etc. This allow other countries' politicians to blame the US and the absence of defense from US media make them believe they were right, and that's how the true picture are ignored by all sides, regardless of the whole long chain of historical events make very little room for lies. 

Capitalism in modern time have no country, the same with Socialism. Both represent a bunch of aristocracy elites with capital or political power or natural resources flowing around globally. If US people are proud of their stock index, think again.  Any other countries institution/person who has large amount of USD can own these as well. When USD became the world currency, Wall Street (including US banks list on it)  is the  international assets. This means foreign élite/politicians have mutual interests in US politics to ensure their assets or their powers and US government bailed these international corporations out by US people's tax, and defend their benefit with US military.  Any GOV debt will need to pay someday, eventually in the future. Most of the geopolitical sanctions nowadays are about local elites vs global elites.

The key ideology that separated US to the rest of the world is the believe in Individualism and Decentralization of powers. The people votes for the government, the government ensure the execution of corporations, corporations employed the people. Government sliced in 3 branches:  legislative, executive and judicial. These 3 branches sliced to state and federal level. Another extra layer is Fed is sliced half private bank, half public officers.

USD as world currency broke this system gradually because it allows corporations to be owned globally, bankers globally, and therefor US government became global police where other country call US just the same US citizen called 911. While the people in the US bares all the cost and hated from any of the other 2 branches' misbehaviors.

If the US people understand this and strive to independent from government, they can balance the use of the system and control the global corporations for their own futures. Otherwise Global corporations control the US people votes and then the US government to ensure their establishment. And that's why there are so much lies, cherry piking facts and  reparation movements among US mainstream, politicians and education is just one of the channel. US Individualism is the arch enemy of Global Capitalism/Socialism/Liberalism. 

 

Edited by SUZNV
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(edited)

On 1/9/2022 at 10:36 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

FIm-l0dXMAE-2WS?format=jpg

This was mine meme send to you ;P

One more meme

This mem says in polish  When you have already chosen to buy Ukraine on the shelf, but suddenly you see a fucking awesome seasonal promotion for Kazakhstan

More and more it seems to me that all Russia needs to do to realize Solzhenitsyn's proposed borders is to show unhesitating resolve, historyless elites that rule post-Soviet quasistates will cut out their games with larp nationalisms and "multi-vector" foreign policies quite quickly then.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1479423021639208963

bYD6VJJPG9HBJ93LX (1).jpg

Lukashenka in his Christmas speech: this year will be year of the states into unions. We should unite with our brothers: Russia, Kazakhstan and Ukraine. We will do everything to take back Ukraine

vkU9mPVbuP30ETgiX.jpg

Edited by Tomasz

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