Ron Wagner

How Far Have We Really Gotten With Alternative Energy

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(edited)

4 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

So you wand to develop a flowchart as to what, when and which items can be used?

Hey I got an idea for you create an app and sell it to do the work for the people.

Instead of remaining ignorant of basic electricity basics, you could just STOP posting your ignorance all over the internet telling others they are stupid and wrong when YOU are the ignorant one.  Take a hint. 

Yea, this comment is more aligned with your previous comments, not really this comment as the sheer ignorant absurdity of your comment is appalling. 

Do your homework, or hire an electrician.

Edited by footeab@yahoo.com

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On 4/26/2022 at 6:41 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

California just ordered the next big tranche of stand alone grid batteries.

CPUC approves California utility projects including PG&E’s 1.6GW/6.4GWh BESS

 
battery storage pg&e cpuc Rendering of the Edwards Sanborn solar-plus-storage project in Kern County, California. It will have a 2,445MWh battery storage system, one of the biggest in the world, though only 28% of this is part of PG&E’s procurement. Image: Terra-Gen / CPA.

The California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) has approved new projects by the state’s three investor-owned utilities, including nine battery energy storage system (BESS) facilities proposed by PG&E totalling 1.6GW/6.4GWh.

The resources have to come online between 2023 and 2026 but PG&E expects these nine (which total 1,598.7MW to be exact) will be fully operational by June 2024.

Looking at the picture feels hot, probably intensified by the black panels?

Would there be a way to use the heat itself readily available in the desert to generate power? e.g. we use infrared to detect body heat. Could we reverse the process to use heat to generate infrared or light of other intensity?

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10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Eco the UK has had a massive increase in EV's and hybrids that most people charge overnight as it makes economical sense to do so. No upgrade to the UK's grid has been required, how does the US grid differ so much to the UK's? Is it because most of the US is on 120V compared to the UK 240V as standard? Sorry I'm not familiar with how your grid works.

Different way load is calculated maybe.  What is considered full rated or partial in the load calc.

Did a quick search and UK flat standard is 60A@240V 3 phase and old standard was 40A, so equivalent to roughly 90A@240V 2 phase which is very close to a lot of USA equivalent apartments/condos with 100A... Actual USA homes, 100A is not even close.  Usually 150A or higher which I assume will roughly be equal in the UK.  But see my previous post for a couple reasons the NEC(National Electric Code- USA) is absurdly conservative for load ratings.  One would truly have to look at the nitty gritty in the regulations for load allowable between 2 countries. IEC = international electric code and NEC and whatever equivalent UK version are nearly all identical. 

PS: UK has not added lots of EV's.  Lets not kid ourselves. 

PPS: UK/USA/Worldwide grid work identically; only difference is residential wiring.  Commercial wiring around the world is identical or nearly so though light commercial business wiring in the USA tends to gravitate towards residential USA wiring standards to a greater degree. 

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20 hours ago, nsdp said:

Eric you know enough about electricity to be dangerous.   What you say is correct for 3 phase 4 wire either Wye or Delta secondary connection. There is also single phase 120/240 volt Edison three wire  grounded center tap neutral.  This is what you get at home in North Amercia https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Site-Early-Radio/Archive-Books-Early-Tech-IDX/IDX/Cyclopedia-of-Electricity-Vol-II-1925-OCR-Page-0260.pdf 

this is a single phase primary to neutral(if NERC compliant 2400 volts + )most usually 7200 volt to neutral or 19200 primary  to neutral drawing is from a book that is 50 years before NERC standards were adopted in 1968 and shows a delta primary connection that is now prohibited. )   high side connection for the transformer.   The secondary  is a full 240 volts if the wiring is connected to both ends of  the secondary winding.   The system neutral is connected to the center point of the secondary winding.  Since you have only a half length winding from L1 to N on the secondary side.   L1---N---L2.  Voltages are L1-L2 =240 volts. L1-N=120 volts, and N-L2 = 120 volts.  Maxwell's equations   This is the NEC standard for 600 volts or less.

If you live in the US, Canada, or Mexico that is what you get.  Most other countries use  240 volt star connection  for residential service

I have never claimed to be an expert in electrical systems.  

14 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Not true.  It is 2 of the 3 legs.  If 3 legs are present, It could be 208V 3 phase(VERY rare in USA) as that is the voltage one gets when one uses 3 legs of 120V, but most likely it is not when residential in USA.  Industrial areas, you are correct, but even here most common is 480V 3 phase.   Commercial property will have 3 phases, but the stores in question will have only 2 phases run to the store in question.  Outside of an industrial park, 3 phase as the de-jeur, in essence does not exist in the USA. 

yes - that's correct I think.  I'm thankful there weren't many questions about 3 phase wiring in my engineering examinations.  

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In California, 12.5% of new light-duty vehicle registrations were plug-in electric vehicles (PEV) in 2021. Next highest were the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Washington, and Oregon, which each had PEV registrations accounting for more than 7% of new registrations. Of all light-duty vehicle registrations in California for 2021, including new and existing registrations, 2.5% were PEV.

new-and-used-vehicle-registrations-in-2021-USA-map.png

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/04/in-california-12-5-of-new-light-duty-vehicle-registrations-were-plug-in-electric-vehicles-in-2021/

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5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

In California, 12.5% of new light-duty vehicle registrations were plug-in electric vehicles (PEV) in 2021. Next highest were the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Washington, and Oregon, which each had PEV registrations accounting for more than 7% of new registrations. Of all light-duty vehicle registrations in California for 2021, including new and existing registrations, 2.5% were PEV.

new-and-used-vehicle-registrations-in-2021-USA-map.png

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/04/in-california-12-5-of-new-light-duty-vehicle-registrations-were-plug-in-electric-vehicles-in-2021/

Again, out of date.

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On 5/2/2022 at 3:16 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

How about backing your claim up with evidence? Of course you can't because it is not a problem at all.

The most rudimentary calculations by any expert show that capacity is exceeded with universal draw for overnight charging.

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18 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Eco the UK has had a massive increase in EV's and hybrids that most people charge overnight as it makes economical sense to do so. No upgrade to the UK's grid has been required, how does the US grid differ so much to the UK's? Is it because most of the US is on 120V compared to the UK 240V as standard? Sorry I'm not familiar with how your grid works.

EVs are still under 1% of the vehicle market in Europe, so there is nothing yet approaching a universal charging problem.

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(edited)

20 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, out of date.

HaHa, We are just a third of the way through 2022 and you think that the last full year (2021) total numbers are out of date. No wonder you failed economics.

Ok, here is Q1 of 2022. April data won't be out for another week or two.

US electric car sales jumped to an impressive record high last quarter

Screen-Shot-2022-04-28-at-4.58.19-PM.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1000

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The most rudimentary calculations by any expert show that capacity is exceeded with universal draw for overnight charging.

Again with nothing to back up your silly claim.

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(edited)

15 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Different way load is calculated maybe.  What is considered full rated or partial in the load calc.

Did a quick search and UK flat standard is 60A@240V 3 phase and old standard was 40A, so equivalent to roughly 90A@240V 2 phase which is very close to a lot of USA equivalent apartments/condos with 100A... Actual USA homes, 100A is not even close.  Usually 150A or higher which I assume will roughly be equal in the UK.  But see my previous post for a couple reasons the NEC(National Electric Code- USA) is absurdly conservative for load ratings.  One would truly have to look at the nitty gritty in the regulations for load allowable between 2 countries. IEC = international electric code and NEC and whatever equivalent UK version are nearly all identical. 

PS: UK has not added lots of EV's.  Lets not kid ourselves. 

PPS: UK/USA/Worldwide grid work identically; only difference is residential wiring.  Commercial wiring around the world is identical or nearly so though light commercial business wiring in the USA tends to gravitate towards residential USA wiring standards to a greater degree. 

As of Feb 2022 its 420,000 EV's and 780,000 PHEV's according to this. 

Electric vehicle market statistics 2022 - How many electric cars in UK ? (nextgreencar.com)

Edited by NickW
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7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Again with nothing to back up your silly claim.

Ecocharger is using the typical claim that everyone will attempt to charge a near depleted EV at 1.17am on a Tuesday morning. 

I don't own an EV or PHEV yet but I would assume most people with home charging options top up charge every night

A mate with a Leaf basically recharges to 80% of capacity each night on off peak to cover commuting usage and consumes about 6kwh charged at 2.2KW. He only charges to 100% if going on a longer journey. At the charge time the UK grid has loads of spare capacity. 

Longer term if it becomes an issue smart meters will regulate the charging times. 

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On 5/4/2022 at 11:32 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

nearly half of Tesla vehicles produced in Q1 were equipped with a lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery, containing no nickel or cobalt.

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/IOSHZZ_TSLA_Q1_2022_Update_G9MOZE.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"TSLA-Q1-2022-Update.pdf"

The range is poor, and the cost to charge depends on fossil fuel; the price is the outside the majority of people based on the breakdown of household income!

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22 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Instead of remaining ignorant of basic electricity basics, you could just STOP posting your ignorance all over the internet telling others they are stupid and wrong when YOU are the ignorant one.  Take a hint. 

Yea, this comment is more aligned with your previous comments, not really this comment as the sheer ignorant absurdity of your comment is appalling. 

Do your homework, or hire an electrician.

There are several rehabilitation drug facilities, Go to one!

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On 5/4/2022 at 2:59 PM, Rob Plant said:

Richie the UK isnt in the EU!! The EU can do what the hell they like, I dont care, Germany have made some terribly bad decisions thanks to Merkel. The EU is in the sh*t because many countries backed cheap Russian gas supplies with no obvious alternative which was short sighted at best and idiotic at worst.

The UK produces approx 50% of its own gas with 1/3 being imported from Norway. That leaves approx 1/5 coming from elsehwere which the US is a supplier, but in real terms a very small supplier.

Over the last 12 months the UK's power has come mainly from Gas 39.1%, Renewables (mainly wind) 25.4%, and "other" 25.4% mainly nuclear and biomas.

Without renewables we would be up sh*t street, thats a fact.

It appears now though that the UK has become a major LNG hub due to its terminals and then backfilling into Europe either directly or indirectly by supplying electricity. I have noticed over the last few months the UK has switched to being a net exporter . At the time of writing UK  exporting 3.3GW of leccy to the continent.

Electricity Data Summary | BMRS (bmreports.com)

 

 

 

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On 3/17/2022 at 4:42 AM, Boat said:

I like that world chart posted the other day. It looks like green is growing 1% a year.  Putin is hurting FF’s future. Will green growth pick up? Some think so, others hope not. Lol One percent or one percent+ works for me. In 30 years that’s a lot of pollution taken out. Those of us that think green progress will be much faster are getting validation for being cheer leaders 15 years ago. We’ll we will see. 
I remember when the US was green at 1/3 of one percent per year. Today it’s close to 30% non FF.

One last transportation + as we move to an electric future. The huge amount of energy used to refine oil like gasoline and diesel will change the industry forever. Nat gas will be a big winner in the north, at least for now. For me, net zero is much further away, I’m thinking 45/50% by 2050. 

WRONG:About 78% of the nation's energy comes from fossil fuels, 8.9% from nuclear, and 12.5% from renewable sources. In 2019, renewables surpassed coal in the amount ..

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53 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said:

The range is poor, and the cost to charge depends on fossil fuel; the price is the outside the majority of people based on the breakdown of household income!

The range is equivalent to a lot of nickel cobalt cars but LFP costs much less and lasts much longer. The price of electricity only depends on FF to the extent FF is used for its creation. The ratio of FF in the power mix keeps decreasing every year.

EV sales keep skyrocketing.

 

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(edited)

1 hour ago, RichieRich216 said:

WRONG:About 78% of the nation's energy comes from fossil fuels, 8.9% from nuclear, and 12.5% from renewable sources. In 2019, renewables surpassed coal in the amount ..

And two thirds of that FF energy is wasted through inefficient thermal process that wind and solar energy are not susceptible to: 

Energy_2021_United-States_0.png

Edited by Jay McKinsey
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23 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The range is equivalent to a lot of nickel cobalt cars but LFP costs much less and lasts much longer. The price of electricity only depends on FF to the extent FF is used for its creation. The ratio of FF in the power mix keeps decreasing every year.

EV sales keep skyrocketing.

 

If you really want to dig into this start from the beginning:

Raw materials and cost to mine, transportation and refine.

Once received the Cost to transport finished material to to companies to make there one of a thousand items to build The EV, is from the different manufacturers.

Cost to shipping all different parts from Tires, batteries, leather, sound system, You hopefully get this point.

Once all parts are needed to produce the EV, the expense of assembling, cost of people to drive to work to make, If you didn't get the last point, doubtful you will ever get it ever!

Now EV is Assembly now cost to ship, received and dealer prepare for delivery,

SO Taking All above into account, WHAT is the CARBON FOOTPRINT of that EV!

Not taking into account the same start to finish for the EV charging stations and their CARBON FOOTPRINT, AT the end what was saved?

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(edited)

28 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said:

If you really want to dig into this start from the beginning:

Raw materials and cost to mine, transportation and refine.

Once received the Cost to transport finished material to to companies to make there one of a thousand items to build The EV, is from the different manufacturers.

Cost to shipping all different parts from Tires, batteries, leather, sound system, You hopefully get this point.

Once all parts are needed to produce the EV, the expense of assembling, cost of people to drive to work to make, If you didn't get the last point, doubtful you will ever get it ever!

Now EV is Assembly now cost to ship, received and dealer prepare for delivery,

SO Taking All above into account, WHAT is the CARBON FOOTPRINT of that EV!

Not taking into account the same start to finish for the EV charging stations and their CARBON FOOTPRINT, AT the end what was saved?

If the mining, shipping and assembly is done with renewable energy then the carbon footprint is very low. So simple you might even be able to understand it.

But even if FF is used for the production of an EV then FF is also used for the production of an ICE, an EV covers its carbon footprint in a couple years of operation at most. 

Large–scale electric vehicle adoption can greatly reduce emissions from vehicle tailpipes. However, analysts have cautioned that it can come with increased indirect emissions from electricity and battery production that are not commonly regulated by transport policies. We combine integrated energy modeling and life cycle assessment to compare optimal policy scenarios that price emissions at the tailpipe only, versus both tailpipe and indirect emissions. Surprisingly, scenarios that also price indirect emissions exhibit higher, rather than reduced, sales of electric vehicles, while yielding lower cumulative tailpipe and indirect emissions. Expected technological change ensures that emissions from electricity and battery production are more than offset by reduced emissions of gasoline production. Given continued decarbonization of electricity supply, results show that a large–scale adoption of electric vehicles is able to reduce CO2 emissions through more channels than previously expected. Further, carbon pricing of stationary sources will also favor electric vehicles. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27247-y

 

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

Based on a series of assumptions, the data showed that a Tesla Model 3 in the United States, for example, would need to be driven for 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before it does less harm to the environment than a Toyota Corolla.https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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(edited)

2 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

If you really want to dig into this start from the beginning:

Raw materials and cost to mine, transportation and refine.

Once received the Cost to transport finished material to to companies to make there one of a thousand items to build The EV, is from the different manufacturers.

Cost to shipping all different parts from Tires, batteries, leather, sound system, You hopefully get this point.

Once all parts are needed to produce the EV, the expense of assembling, cost of people to drive to work to make, If you didn't get the last point, doubtful you will ever get it ever!

Now EV is Assembly now cost to ship, received and dealer prepare for delivery,

SO Taking All above into account, WHAT is the CARBON FOOTPRINT of that EV!

Not taking into account the same start to finish for the EV charging stations and their CARBON FOOTPRINT, AT the end what was saved?

I hope you realize that EVERY item in your list applies equally to the production of ICE vehicles.  All you have done is list some of the inputs required for a generic automobile of any sort. 

Edited by Eric Gagen
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2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If the mining, shipping and assembly is done with renewable energy then the carbon footprint is very low. So simple you might even be able to understand it.

But even if FF is used for the production of an EV then FF is also used for the production of an ICE, an EV covers its carbon footprint in a couple years of operation at most. 

Large–scale electric vehicle adoption can greatly reduce emissions from vehicle tailpipes. However, analysts have cautioned that it can come with increased indirect emissions from electricity and battery production that are not commonly regulated by transport policies. We combine integrated energy modeling and life cycle assessment to compare optimal policy scenarios that price emissions at the tailpipe only, versus both tailpipe and indirect emissions. Surprisingly, scenarios that also price indirect emissions exhibit higher, rather than reduced, sales of electric vehicles, while yielding lower cumulative tailpipe and indirect emissions. Expected technological change ensures that emissions from electricity and battery production are more than offset by reduced emissions of gasoline production. Given continued decarbonization of electricity supply, results show that a large–scale adoption of electric vehicles is able to reduce CO2 emissions through more channels than previously expected. Further, carbon pricing of stationary sources will also favor electric vehicles. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27247-y

 

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

Based on a series of assumptions, the data showed that a Tesla Model 3 in the United States, for example, would need to be driven for 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before it does less harm to the environment than a Toyota Corolla.https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

As of today, the “ Carbon Footprint “ for current but EV and “Charging Stations” is greater than the EV savings!

In the next 40-50 years, that may change but for now, Fossil Fuel is Kink and will remain it. Learn to live with it or not, you can rationalized It anyway you desire.

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1 minute ago, RichieRich216 said:

As of today, the “ Carbon Footprint “ for current but EV and “Charging Stations” is greater than the EV savings!

In the next 40-50 years, that may change but for now, Fossil Fuel is Kink and will remain it. Learn to live with it or not, you can rationalized It anyway you desire.

No, you are incorrect as the research I provided concludes. All you have is your empty claim.

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Good point; however, all the greenies don't want to consider that fossil fuels are utilized in every industry every day. 

There is not anything you do or touch today that doesn't have fossil fuel in it.

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1 minute ago, RichieRich216 said:

Good point; however, all the greenies don't want to consider that fossil fuels are utilized in every industry every day. 

There is not anything you do or touch today that doesn't have fossil fuel in it.

Maybe not today but tomorrow there will be.

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