Where 3 Million Electric Vehicle Batteries Will Go When They Retire?

[BlackTortoise + 103]

With the growth of electric cars has come a flood of used batteries that is set to skyrocket in the next five years.The first batches of batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles are hitting retirement age, yet they aren’t bound for landfills. This year about 55,000 used battery packs were removed from electric cars as the cars' packs reach their 10-year lifespan. That is leading to new efforts to reuse batteries before they need to recycled. The question of how to dispose of all these used batteries is becoming critical.

[Adam Varga + 123]

Tesla has said on previous earnings calls that they plan to have a 100% closed loop for their battery packs in the near future, whatever near future means according to Musk. 

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program

[Vlad Kovalenko + 115]

I would be worried about the cost effectiveness of the idea. It could easily be decades before a process to recycle the components 100% became economically viable for the company to commit to the idea. Tesla shareholders would probably vote to focus on refining their current tech and nailing down manufacturing before exploring new processes that could be more expensive. 

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, BlackTortoise said:

With the growth of electric cars has come a flood of used batteries that is set to skyrocket in the next five years.The first batches of batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles are hitting retirement age, yet they aren’t bound for landfills. This year about 55,000 used battery packs were removed from electric cars as the cars' packs reach their 10-year lifespan. That is leading to new efforts to reuse batteries before they need to recycled. The question of how to dispose of all these used batteries is becoming critical.

Already been resolved. The batteries can have a second life as stationary storage. 

Take a Nissan Leaf - the Battery degrades from 30kwh to 15kwh. The battery is replaced but still has a lot of function for stationary storage. 

These can be converted for home / small business use

Bulked together and used to provide short term storage for the grid. 

Once there have reached their true end of life there should be enough to create the economy of scale to build recycling facilities. 

[Stormysaga + 62]

GM and BMW are also working to develop a market for the battery packs powering energy grids. Lithium-ion car and bus batteries can collect and discharge electricity for another seven to 10 years after being taken off the roads and stripped from chassis. 

[JB1 + 3]

Economics of battery cars seem to be taking a holiday.  When will they do true incremental analysis from the electricity supply course through distribution to the battery charge station.  Incremental capital cost not considered as well as the fact that the all utility users are bearing the cost for the battery car owners.  Kind of like the phony analysis of solar energy panels.  The US taxpayer is funding their neighbors lower utility cost.  Subsidies unfair!  Germany paying 3 times our electricity cost for their ridiculous policy decisions on scrap nuclear and make it up with solar and wind mills.  How many sunny days in Germany and what is the intensity of the sun in Germany at its latitude?

 

[Peelstick + 4]

So far as  know, lithium cannot be recycled and is as undesirable as nuclear waste.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

The reuse of electric vehicle batteries seems highly speculative to me. I would like to see it work but they eventually need to be disposed of somehow. We will know soon. Someone knows already. 

[NickW + 2,714]

On 7/17/2018 at 7:25 PM, Peelstick said:

So far as  know, lithium cannot be recycled and is as undesirable as nuclear waste.

 

🤣

1. Yes it can. Its a more complicated process and the supply is currently insufficient to give it the appropriate economy of scale but yes they can be recycled. 

2. If you don't want to recycle it just exposure it to oxygen and Co2 and it will rapid turn into a salt

3. Lithium Carbonate is pretty harmless

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

The reuse of electric vehicle batteries seems highly speculative to me. I would like to see it work but they eventually need to be disposed of somehow. We will know soon. Someone knows already. 

Its not speculative - its already being done. At present its at a fairly small scale demo plant as the supply of batteries is limited. 

Daimler have built a demo plant which stores 13 MWH

https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/daimler-worlds-largest-2nd-use-battery-storage-starting/

Hyundai have built a 1 MW demo plant

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/final-stop-ev-batteries-hyundai-kia-toyota-nissan-and-bmw-grid

As have Renault

https://insideevs.com/renault-develops-energy-storage-from-used-batteries-with-connected-energy/

As have Toyota

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150512005740/en/Toyota-Flips-Switch-Sustainable-Power-Yellowstone-National

[NickW + 2,714]

On 7/17/2018 at 6:22 PM, JB1 said:

Economics of battery cars seem to be taking a holiday.  When will they do true incremental analysis from the electricity supply course through distribution to the battery charge station.  Incremental capital cost not considered as well as the fact that the all utility users are bearing the cost for the battery car owners.  Kind of like the phony analysis of solar energy panels.  The US taxpayer is funding their neighbors lower utility cost.  Subsidies unfair!  Germany paying 3 times our electricity cost for their ridiculous policy decisions on scrap nuclear and make it up with solar and wind mills.  How many sunny days in Germany and what is the intensity of the sun in Germany at its latitude?

 

If I own an Ev and charge from the grid paying the same price as everyone else how is that cost being passed onto other utility users? 

In most cases I would charge at night so I'm off peak and not  placing any demand on the system to build additional capacity. Infact I am utilising capacity that would otherwise sit idle so I'm doing the utility a favour. 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Power redundancy costs money but is a very good thing if it is localized to protect from EMP electromagnetic pulse flares (natural and military). More power is eventually needed anyway.