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Australian power prices go insane

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On 7/15/2022 at 11:29 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

You could acknowledge that the UK's use of renewables has saved them from much worse price hikes than what they have had.

Reality is that renewables are cutting the price of electricity in Australia:

ACT is the only jurisdiction bucking the trend of soaring power bills now plaguing the rest of Australia

 

The ACT will cut electricity prices this year, bucking a trend of soaring power bills for the rest of Australia, as the territory benefits from long-term contracts that locked in low-cost renewable energy.

Basic tariffs will fall by a minimum of at least 1.25% from 1 July, the ACT’s independent competition and regulatory commission said on Monday. “This is equivalent to a real decrease of 4.93% after excluding inflation,” it said.

The reduction in the regulated tariff will shave $23 off the annual power bill for average households using 6500 kilowatt-hours of electricity annually, and $88 for average non-residential users.

The ACT reached 100% renewables in 2020.

If only it were that simple Jay. The ACT did not "reach 100% renewables" in 2020. They simply purchased a lot of renewables from neighbouring states, (something which is easy to do with a population of just 500,000), and in the process, they have contributed to the woes of neighbouring states, whose coal-fired and gas-powered turbines they still rely upon when the wind doesn't blow and the Sun is not shining. You should not fall for the "greenwashing" of a bunch of politicians Jay. You know that I am a serious supporter of action on climate change, but as a Physicist, Economist, and Environmental Scientist, I can tell you honestly that the Greens are their own worst enemies. They "care" about climate change, but "do not care" to educate themselves on the practicalities of actually solving the problem. Whether it is opposition to nuclear power, dams for hydro, high voltage transmission, or the mining of resources necessary for EV's etc, please do not deny the obvious? You make some very valid points, but your failure to acknowledge the realities that most on this site are aware of can be quite astounding at times. Starving the world of food and energy is not such a desirable way to combat climate change IMHO. There are always unintended consequences. I sincerely hope you learn not to keep dismissing the "intermittency problem" and soon recognise that batteries are only a small part of the solution but come with significant system-wide costs as well. They exacerbate the poor economics of the existing fleet of dispatchable power and the more rapidly the energy transition is made, the more costly it will be in both economic and human misery terms. Global energy demand has risen 5-fold over the past 50 years, and is set to double over the next 30 years. There will be enormous geo-political strife within 5 years if nuclear is not embraced right now and same with the natural gas to back-up all the extra solar and wind power in the pipeline. If you think the risk of nuclear war is high at present, just wait another 5 years when it becomes obvious to Westerners that they have enormous energy bills due to "electrification" whilst China "powers ahead" on cheap fossil fuels and are responsible for 75% of global GHG emissions compared to the current 50%. Do you really think that your pro-China spin will still hold sway in 5 years time? It is already wearing very thin Jay. Londoners are sweltering in 40 degree heat and paying 10 times the usual for electricity thanks to the Bidenflation. And to top it off, the share market and economy is melting down too. At some point Jay, a nuclear winter becomes the ONLY option. If you cannot convince the all-knowing, all powerful Mr Xi to ban the sale of ICE cars by 2030, and actually agree to import as much US LNG as he does from Russia, then there will be an enormous firework display sooner than you might imagine. 

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On 7/16/2022 at 5:27 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Thanks for pointing out that fossil fuels are the problem in the eastern half of the grid.

Western Australia forges ahead with renewables transition as other states face energy crisis

By Keane Bourke
Posted Sat 18 Jun 2022 at 2:08pmSaturday 18 Jun 2022 at 2:08pm, updated Mon 20 Jun 2022 at 10:55pmMonday 20 Jun 2022 at 10:55pm
The outside of the Muja power station
The Muja Power station near Collie will be closed within a decade.(ABC News: Sam Bold)

It's been a big week in the world of power — although for different reasons depending on which side of Australia you're on.

As much of the country struggles to keep the lights on, WA has taken a significant step in its renewables transition, announcing the end of state-run, coal-fired power plants by 2030.

It's expected to have a big impact on household bills in the future, but why is it happening now, and what does it all mean?

Here's a rundown of this week's local energy news.

What are the big changes?

The WA government had previously committed to retiring parts of its largest coal-fired plant, the Muja power station.

But this week, we found out what happens next — as it announced plans to close both of the coal-fired plants run by state-owned power provider Synergy by 2030.

By phasing out coal-fired power, Synergy estimates its carbon emissions would reduce by 80 per cent by 2030.

On top of marking a significant turning point for the nearby coal mining town of Collie, it's a big shift for the state's energy network.

To make up for the capacity being lost, the government will spend $3.8 billion over 10 years to add more renewable capacity to the grid.

Why the shift?

WA's power grid is changing, leaving less room for coal to fit into the mix.

Last year alone, about 300 megawatts of rooftop solar power was added to the grid – almost as much as the smaller of the two state-run plants.

A cluster of houses at Alkimos Beach all with rooftop solar panels.
West Australian households have been embracing solar at record rates.(ABC News: Briana Shepherd)

It means during the day there's little or no need for the coal-fired plants to run, but that causes issues because coal plants aren't designed to be turned on and off.

It takes 18 hours for a plant to go from being switched off to fully operational.

Will this cause power bills to rise? 

The government isn't giving a straight answer, but says sticking with coal-fired power would ultimately be more expensive.

Premier Mark McGowan said if the coal plants continued to operate, bills would rise by about $1,200 a year by 2030.

Instead, he committed to keeping power prices capped in line with inflation until at least 2025.

Premier Mark McGowan
Mark McGowan said West Australians could expect their power bills to rise by about $1,200 a year by the end of the decade if the coal plants were not closed.(ABC News: James Carmody)

At the same time, the government is also hoping these changes can make Synergy more self-sufficient and less reliant on government grants.

Over the next four years, the government is planning to give Synergy $783.3 million in "financial viability" subsidies.

Effectively, that's money that recognises Synergy doesn't always act like an ordinary business, because there are times when it has to do things for reasons other than financial gain.

But it's hoped that by increasing the mix of renewable energy, Synergy's costs will be lower.

So what will replace the coal plants?

Some of the capacity will be replaced by renewables already being added to the grid – including rooftop solar.

But there still needs to be an ability to provide power when the sun isn't shining, or when there's extra demand.

That's why the new projects outlined in this announcement include 800MW of wind capacity and 2,000MWh of storage – including fast-start lithium-ion batteries.

A train moves through the town of Collie
The government's announcement marks a significant turning point for Collie.(ABC News: Anthony Pancia)

In welcome news for the town of Collie, the government is also looking into other technologies, including pumped hydro.

When renewable energy is available, it uses that power to pump water up a hill, "storing" the energy.

Then, when the power is needed, it's allowed to fall back down the hill, through a turbine, which adds power into the grid.

But the government isn't locking itself into just these schemes, with Synergy given some latitude in how it invests the $3.8 billion it's receiving.

What about hydrogen?

The government is holding out on hydrogen for a little bit longer. 

"In the future we would expect hydrogen to be able to replace natural gas, but that's currently not financially viable," Energy Minister Bill Johnston said this week.

Over the last year, about 31 per cent of the power in the South-West Interconnected System, which covers most of the state's population, was provided by gas, according to the Australian Energy Market Operator.

Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
WATCH
Duration: 5 minutes 50 seconds5m
 
Play Video. Duration: 5 minutes 50 seconds
Is green hydrogen the fuel of the future?

New gas-fired power stations have been ruled out beyond 2030, and the government says it's not likely there would be a need to build any before then.

"But we'll be very cautious in our approach as we move towards 2030, and if we need to take action we will," Mr Johnston said.

Part of WA's hydrogen future will be centred around the Asian Renewable Energy Hub, north-east of Port Hedland.

The government this week announced BP would take a 40.5 per cent stake in the hub, which is planning to generate both wind and solar power, as well as producing green hydrogen.

Will this affect WA's energy security?

The Premier made clear he was confident this plan would secure WA's energy supply into the future, and the state would avoid the issues being experienced elsewhere.

Part of the reason for those issues has been the nature of the electricity market in the east, which is vastly different to WA's state-owned system.

Skyrocketing gas prices have also contributed, but WA largely doesn't have to worry about that because of its domestic reservation policy.

That policy means 15 per cent of gas reserves within the state's jurisdiction are quarantined for the local market.

ONG cargo ship Asia Excellence leaves Gorgon Is with first LNG in March 2016
Unlike the eastern states, a domestic gas reservation policy applies in WA. (Supplied: Chevron )

It's good news, both for now and into the future, with WA planning to rely on gas for more of its base-load power, given it can be fired up in as little as 16 minutes.

"When you have a reservation policy with gas, you can turn gas power stations on immediately," Mr McGowan said this week.

"When you have pumped hydro and batteries, the technology now is so good that you can provide base-load power using those mechanisms combined."

Notice the importance of natural gas in the whole equation Jay?

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On 7/16/2022 at 6:23 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

 

No they will be saving money because now they will have low cost renewables.  The high price of electricity is fully due to the high cost of fossil fuels and fossil fuel plant failure, that is undeniable.  Here are the costs for Eastern Australia over the past month, notice how fossil fuel is 26% more expensive than renewables, but of course you are impervious to data:

image.png.5299b330d424ce04b332540740c1e707.png

https://opennem.org.au/energy/au/?range=30d&interval=1d

Here is the whole year, where renewables offer even a larger cost savings where fossil is a whopping 41% more expensive.:

image.png.496f660baae95ddd62cf61de7444c68e.png

 

No Jay, you are impervious to reality and common sense. WA has a tiny pop'n, an enormous amount of gas, as well as the best resources for solar and wind on the planet. Eastern Australia has 90% of the pop'n, and the Bass Strait is running out of oil and gas. The Victorian Govt will not allow onshore drilling. The NSW govt banned the only gas development there. And the greenies now want to ban gas development in the Northern Territory, and everywhere else, including WA. A recipe for disaster. Only the Morrison govt had a practical plan to secure our energy future and now we are stuffed. Same applies to what is left of our industrial base. Without natural gas development, global fertiliser prices will head even further northwards and global famine and the resulting migration will intensify. Get ready for some ugly nationalism to re-surface. 

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11 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

From my point of view it is Australia's overdependence on wind and solar and not developing their natural gas pipelines to their own population. Australia is an exporter of coal and natural gas but has not prioritzed its own people. Am I wrong?

Not entirely wrong. We do not yet have an over-dependence on wind and solar but that is on it's way. Half of the coal we export is coking coal, far too valuable to be wasted in a thermal power station, but even thermal coal is fetching 100's of dollars/tonne right now. We will eventually replace the revenue from coal and LNG with green Hydrogen and ammonia exports but the stupid greenies are incapable of doing the math. They simply cannot understand how a practical transition occurs and that if our coal, oil & gas become stranded assets, then the Chinese will attempt to come and steal them before long. They simply don't understand how much energy the world consumes and how desperate some countries are to secure their supplies. They live in La La land and their "green lawfare" is mainly funded by the Sierra Club of the USA. The Aboriginals also block a lot of mines and other development. They all think they are "saving the planet" but all they are doing is transferring our potential exports to those with weaker environmental standards and questionable labour practices. Every time they block an Australian coal mine, that is another one that opens in Indonesia that requires the destruction of more rainforest. That is how stupid the greenies are. And if Australia does not go nuclear, we are screwed. But to answer your question, there is no domestic shortage of coal or gas, it is just that the socialists here think they should be able to consume it for free. They argue that "it belongs to the people" or that "it should be very heavily taxed" because our mining, oil and gas, plus coal companies are majority foreign owned and "all the profits go to foreigners". Meanwhile, we have the world's 4th largest pension savings despite being only the 15th largest economy on the planet. So ya gotta ask the question: Why the f*** do our pension funds not invest heavily in our resource companies? Simple, due to the highly cyclical "boom/bust" nature of the industry. BHP may be the world's largest mining company, and has doubled production and received record prices for iron ore in the last decade, but the share price is still lower than 15 years ago. Same with our oil & gas companies. Indeed, the entire value of the Aussie share market has not budged in 15 years. Every time we start a new company that succeeds, it immediately is allowed to be swallowed up by an international competitor. And half our farmland is foreign-owned. So yes, you are correct. We have not prioritised our own people. We are not allowed to. The USA and Europe will not allow that. For example, the European Competition Commission blocked the merger of BHP with Rio Tinto. I could list hundreds of examples but you get the idea. Australia has to play by "international rules" of which we have very little say in. We would be much better off without the WTO. It would allow us to bring back tariffs and hence our manufacturing industry.  Like the USA, our govt is close to bankruptcy, same as Europe too, household and corporate debt also at record levels, but then, you can look at all those shiny new cities in Asia and they are all on the verge of bankruptcy too? Whole world? Whether we get stagflation, hyperinflation, or deflation, things won't be pretty for any country before long IMHO. I can't think of any country that is acting in the interests of their citizens, can you? The Davos Globalist elite seem to be the only one's that get to vote on anything these days?

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9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No I point out that the low cost of renewables is leading to them gaining electricity share at a fairly rapid rate:

image.thumb.png.12cc815c88dcb764eee4e2e3c8d26066.png

And that with their low cost that rate is only going to increase:

China Built More Offshore Wind In 2021 Than Every Other Country Built In 5 Years

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2022/01/26/china-built-more-offshore-wind-in-2021-than-every-other-country-built-in-5-years/?sh=227c0fc54634

The difference between me and you Ron is that you look backwards and I look forwards.

Well, I think that all you "forward thinkers" are actually very backwards when it comes to common sense. I call it the "Dreamer Disease". Not that there is anything wrong with having a dream, except when you impose it with religious vigour on the rest of the planet at great cost to everyone but yourself. Economic "rationalism" has turned out anything but? So, inflation was tamed for 40 years. But when I see a graph of interest rates going down over that timeframe, and then the level of debt going up at the same pace, it reminds me of a set of alligator jaws that are about to snap shut. < Snap! > So, the debt is finally about to get inflated away, after multiple attempts, just that the middle class (what is left of us) will have to eat spaghetti on toast for dinner and downsize our vehicles. Call me backwards looking, but I preferred the days when you could smoke on an aircraft and a man's wage was sufficient to support a nuclear family. Your Utopia is my nightmare Jay! Life was more pleasant when we were all "uncompetitive" compared to the third world but actually enjoyed a high standard of living compared to them? 

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On 7/16/2022 at 10:35 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Boat open your eye's, your frustration lies in one world order. Australia would not have a energy crisis if the country put Australia first. You might ask yourself as to why a governing body would allow it's citizenship to be jeopardized. Do a deep dive into the WTO and it's functioning...mostly importantly sovereign countries losing there sovereign rights. The Busch administration actually had to go back into after it was written and signed to rewrite it due to the fact it egregiously violated the US court system.

You speak to environmental/ social justice quite often. You might take the time to research the history of automotive imports into the US. Japan and Germany flourished while US auto workers were decimated. I have no qualms saying specifically the Black community...Detroit is a glaring example and today that community is in ruin.

It only gets worse, GM you might know it as a car company, it really is a parts manufacturer... The World's Largest.. by far..or was. To make these parts took precision machining...now here's the rub. Those lathes/machines  were  made by hand crafted machine's that enabled precision lathes to be made  a hundred years of engineering and perfection machining  They could build parts that allowed the US to build a infrastructure second to none...Today China has those machines and the tech...they can build anything the US can. China virtually bought AC delco...and the machines that made AC delco. And now Tesla has built factories in China, tech that was bought and paid for by US citizens...That tech is now China's.

All of these tradgies are a result of one world order, corporate order. Question would Germany have the need for such large energy needs without auto manufacturing? Take a look at how many autos Germany exports..it's stunning...As to China..almost overnight they will become the world's largest  auto industry..Brought to by GM or what was GM. 

The above tragedies are tearing the US democrat system apart, and enabling socialist and communist systems across the globe...and world body is beginning to flounder badly...Communism along with Socialism are once again tearing it apart.

To this thread, Australia is punishing it's citizenship,  Only to maintain this world order, and a socialist green ideology...very badly conceived and implemented.

And more...interwoven world society is very ill advised.

The US’s selfish war on inflation will tip the world into recession

The US’s selfish war on inflation will tip the world into recession

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/16/the-uss-selfish-war-on-inflation-will-tip-the-world-into-recession

We may look at the world differenty. Brain power/distributed manufacturing/distributed energy etc gives any part of the world the ability to make a product. The big advantage used to be FF. Renewables and batteries will change that FF domination. Brain power used to reside in larger concentrations in developed countries. After WWII the trend of educating the population instead of just the elites creates the potential of a a capable workforce anywhere. The trends are changing the world, not the idiot politicians. They start wars, create bad policy and are more concerned about individual power than productivity. Just ask Putin. Ask Trump. Lol you act like growth is bad. I say if you set parameters for controlled growth you need not destroy the air and water. Countries can be separate and further share knowledge to harness distributed energy, science, education and research and never leave their country.  All those car plants from foreigners just moved from Detroit to around the US. Supply chains eventually become more efficient by moving, that and tax breaks by hosting states. 

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(edited)

On 7/18/2022 at 8:16 AM, markslawson said:

I'm in a brick house.. why wood? But never mind.. 

thought mixed wooden and brick houses are popular in Australia..... when part of the house gets old enough, one removes the wood and chucks into the fire place for warmth, while reconstructing whatever and however deemed necessary?  '-' Would burning bricks get more heat out of the same act? Or, have i misunderstood what you were trying to say when you mentioned your house is old enough and fire place..........? 'n'

Edited by specinho

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On 7/20/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wombat One said:

Not entirely wrong. We do not yet have an over-dependence on wind and solar but that is on it's way. Half of the coal we export is coking coal, far too valuable to be wasted in a thermal power station, but even thermal coal is fetching 100's of dollars/tonne right now. We will eventually replace the revenue from coal and LNG with green Hydrogen and ammonia exports but the stupid greenies are incapable of doing the math. They simply cannot understand how a practical transition occurs and that if our coal, oil & gas become stranded assets, then the Chinese will attempt to come and steal them before long. They simply don't understand how much energy the world consumes and how desperate some countries are to secure their supplies. They live in La La land and their "green lawfare" is mainly funded by the Sierra Club of the USA. The Aboriginals also block a lot of mines and other development. They all think they are "saving the planet" but all they are doing is transferring our potential exports to those with weaker environmental standards and questionable labour practices. Every time they block an Australian coal mine, that is another one that opens in Indonesia that requires the destruction of more rainforest. That is how stupid the greenies are. And if Australia does not go nuclear, we are screwed. But to answer your question, there is no domestic shortage of coal or gas, it is just that the socialists here think they should be able to consume it for free. They argue that "it belongs to the people" or that "it should be very heavily taxed" because our mining, oil and gas, plus coal companies are majority foreign owned and "all the profits go to foreigners". Meanwhile, we have the world's 4th largest pension savings despite being only the 15th largest economy on the planet. So ya gotta ask the question: Why the f*** do our pension funds not invest heavily in our resource companies? Simple, due to the highly cyclical "boom/bust" nature of the industry. BHP may be the world's largest mining company, and has doubled production and received record prices for iron ore in the last decade, but the share price is still lower than 15 years ago. Same with our oil & gas companies. Indeed, the entire value of the Aussie share market has not budged in 15 years. Every time we start a new company that succeeds, it immediately is allowed to be swallowed up by an international competitor. And half our farmland is foreign-owned. So yes, you are correct. We have not prioritised our own people. We are not allowed to. The USA and Europe will not allow that. For example, the European Competition Commission blocked the merger of BHP with Rio Tinto. I could list hundreds of examples but you get the idea. Australia has to play by "international rules" of which we have very little say in. We would be much better off without the WTO. It would allow us to bring back tariffs and hence our manufacturing industry.  Like the USA, our govt is close to bankruptcy, same as Europe too, household and corporate debt also at record levels, but then, you can look at all those shiny new cities in Asia and they are all on the verge of bankruptcy too? Whole world? Whether we get stagflation, hyperinflation, or deflation, things won't be pretty for any country before long IMHO. I can't think of any country that is acting in the interests of their citizens, can you? The Davos Globalist elite seem to be the only one's that get to vote on anything these days?

pardon my ignorant............. the bolded sentences might be dubious? e.g. Australia, according to a story teller, was started off by having outlaws from England........ and then....... gold rush received explorers from other countries........?

If this story is correct, then,  many people, despite have been residing in Australia for a long time, and may be having a second citizenship here, might still regard their old homeland as their place of origin or where they belong? These people might exclude those who were born there with single citizenship.

If so, by stating own people vs foreigners, we might be confused, if

a) foreigners are referring to those with dual or more citizenship or non aussies?

b) when they stay there, contribute there, helping local to grow in a hope one day they can reach up to their capability, do you still consider aussies deprived, instead of not yet reaching the bar of measurement?

 

Davos group might not necessary aware of the unintended consequences you mentioned. They just set the fire up and let the wind or weather take charge......... Although they can predict burning effect on some fire-prone things, they might not really know what, how much, how long and if firemen are / anyone is capable of putting the fire out. Or would it go out of hands etc.........

For things to change, one must be awaken, be away and not controlled by the herd thinking or manipulation....... More people are awakened, the effect would be more obvious......

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7 hours ago, specinho said:

Would burning bricks get more heat out of the same act? Or, have i misunderstood what you were trying to say when you mentioned your house is old enough and fire place..........? 'n'

I just meant its got a fire place. When did houses stop having fire places? probably from the 1960s or so .. the house I'm in was built brick in 1950. Although there are plenty of timber houses around brick seems more common in Aus than America. Don't know why? Maybe Melbourne (where I live) has a clay sub soil, and there are major brown coal fields out to the east to provide energy to fire the clay but that's just a guess..  

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On 7/20/2022 at 8:49 AM, Wombat One said:

Not entirely wrong. We do not yet have an over-dependence on wind and solar but that is on it's way. Half of the coal we export is coking coal, far too valuable to be wasted in a thermal power station, but even thermal coal is fetching 100's of dollars/tonne right now. We will eventually replace the revenue from coal and LNG with green Hydrogen and ammonia exports but the stupid greenies are incapable of doing the math. They simply cannot understand how a practical transition occurs and that if our coal, oil & gas become stranded assets, then the Chinese will attempt to come and steal them before long. They simply don't understand how much energy the world consumes and how desperate some countries are to secure their supplies. They live in La La land and their "green lawfare" is mainly funded by the Sierra Club of the USA. The Aboriginals also block a lot of mines and other development. They all think they are "saving the planet" but all they are doing is transferring our potential exports to those with weaker environmental standards and questionable labour practices. Every time they block an Australian coal mine, that is another one that opens in Indonesia that requires the destruction of more rainforest. That is how stupid the greenies are. And if Australia does not go nuclear, we are screwed. But to answer your question, there is no domestic shortage of coal or gas, it is just that the socialists here think they should be able to consume it for free. They argue that "it belongs to the people" or that "it should be very heavily taxed" because our mining, oil and gas, plus coal companies are majority foreign owned and "all the profits go to foreigners". Meanwhile, we have the world's 4th largest pension savings despite being only the 15th largest economy on the planet. So ya gotta ask the question: Why the f*** do our pension funds not invest heavily in our resource companies? Simple, due to the highly cyclical "boom/bust" nature of the industry. BHP may be the world's largest mining company, and has doubled production and received record prices for iron ore in the last decade, but the share price is still lower than 15 years ago. Same with our oil & gas companies. Indeed, the entire value of the Aussie share market has not budged in 15 years. Every time we start a new company that succeeds, it immediately is allowed to be swallowed up by an international competitor. And half our farmland is foreign-owned. So yes, you are correct. We have not prioritised our own people. We are not allowed to. The USA and Europe will not allow that. For example, the European Competition Commission blocked the merger of BHP with Rio Tinto. I could list hundreds of examples but you get the idea. Australia has to play by "international rules" of which we have very little say in. We would be much better off without the WTO. It would allow us to bring back tariffs and hence our manufacturing industry.  Like the USA, our govt is close to bankruptcy, same as Europe too, household and corporate debt also at record levels, but then, you can look at all those shiny new cities in Asia and they are all on the verge of bankruptcy too? Whole world? Whether we get stagflation, hyperinflation, or deflation, things won't be pretty for any country before long IMHO. I can't think of any country that is acting in the interests of their citizens, can you? The Davos Globalist elite seem to be the only one's that get to vote on anything these days?

Very well put and thanks for the information on the problems Australia faces. It is very similar worldwide due to the elites of all kinds.

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On 7/14/2022 at 7:22 AM, Tom Nolan said:

The solution does not hinge on the current system of governments.  All of this crap...inflation, wars, energy crisis, climate change,...all of this has the agenda of controlling the populace, just like what happened during the Covid-19 Scamdemic.  Control of the populace is the objective of the current system. 

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

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21 hours ago, markslawson said:

I just meant its got a fire place. When did houses stop having fire places? probably from the 1960s or so .. the house I'm in was built brick in 1950. Although there are plenty of timber houses around brick seems more common in Aus than America. Don't know why? Maybe Melbourne (where I live) has a clay sub soil, and there are major brown coal fields out to the east to provide energy to fire the clay but that's just a guess..  

Most people used to live in the country. Now most live in cities. Trees mostly live in the country and then that pesky air pollution when to many gather and burn stuff. 

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20 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Very well put and thanks for the information on the problems Australia faces. It is very similar worldwide due to the elites of all kinds.

9 hours ago, ChangeMachine said:

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

That’s bs. I own my tv and looking to upgrade. You just buy shyt because you to lazy to do it yourself. You gripe about the freedom of choices. Russia owned the Ukraine and look how happy they are. 

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On 7/20/2022 at 12:23 AM, markslawson said:

Yep - or close enough - coal and coal plants have been demonised so no-one is building them in Aus. The plants we have are aging, so they tend to be offline a lot. Everyone's talking about renewables but, of course, they are simply no substitute. The Aus grid use to be dominated by big brown-coal plants with major brown coal deposits right next to the generator. the resulting power was cheap. No longer. Sigh!  

What?  Coal plants are not "always on" like the fossil cult professes?

The whole argument against renewable is they are intermittent, now you accept your fossil machines are worn out and obsolete and nobody will invest in them.

Must be tough being smarter than the rich investors and have them not listen to you....

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Coal is dirty; coal is no longer cheap; coal plants are increasingly unreliable.

3 strikes you're out!

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10 hours ago, ChangeMachine said:

Their propaganda says we'll own nothing and be happy.  It looks more likely that we'll HAVE nothing (owned, rented or borrowed), including such luxuries as electricity, food and potable water.  We'll see how happy people are going forward.  So far so good!

You have nothing. Do not confuse that with everyone having nothing. Perhaps your outdated views are why you have nothing?

Invest in the future, not the past.

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1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

What?  Coal plants are not "always on" like the fossil cult professes?

The whole argument against renewable is they are intermittent, now you accept your fossil machines are worn out and obsolete and nobody will invest in them.

Do you mean to say you actually regard that as some sort of counter argument to the use of coal plants? Before renewables there use to be a whole set of arcane rules about how much generating power a grid would have on stand-by at one time .. and how much could be turned on at 10 minutes or one-hour notice and so on. Breakdowns could accommodated within that framework, and there were fewer of them because every now and then new generators were built. This system of reserving does not happen with renewables, and new investors in conventional plants have been scared off. Hence the problem - grids are becoming considerable more unstable and power more expensive. We have to either accept that trade off or build more conventional plants - not make silly comments about how aging conventional plants sometimes do breakdown.   

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(edited)

1 hour ago, markslawson said:

 not make silly comments about how aging conventional plants sometimes do breakdown.   

Stop making silly comments that the wind doesn't always blow.  Stop saying that coal plants can always put out nameplate power. 

Edited by TailingsPond

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On 7/14/2022 at 10:46 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Yep, electricity prices are way up because of fossil fuel costs to generate. Good thing we have low cost renewables to move to.

A UK government auction has secured a record 11 gigawatts (GW) of new renewable energy capacity that will generate electricity four times more cheaply than current gas prices.

The projects are all due to start operating within the next five years up to 2026/27 and have agreed to generate electricity for an average price of £48 per megawatt hour (MWh) in today’s money. This is four times cheaper than the £196/MWh current cost of running gas-fired power stations.

Most of the new capacity – some 7GW – will be offshore wind. Notably, for the first time, these projects were cheaper than the 1.5GW of onshore wind or 2.2GW of solar.

This is how English fails man, they are clearly using exaggerated gas prices (as they are now) to justify these products. While also ignoring the simple fact that gas power was never cheap and was only ever a source or "turn on turn off" power supply. It's if anything, the exact opposite of renewables. So given these facts, the articles you are using to justify your argument are simply distorted. 

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On 7/23/2022 at 12:32 PM, TailingsPond said:

Stop making silly comments that the wind doesn't always blow.  Stop saying that coal plants can always put out nameplate power. 

But Tailings Pond the wind doesn't always blow - this is recognised by almost everyone but you - and no on ever said that coal plants can always put out full power. Of course they can't. But if that's the best you can do then its time to wrap up the conversation and not read any further comments you might make. Leave it with you. .  

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On 7/13/2022 at 7:49 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The solution is more renewables, batteries and green hydrogen. Burning more outrageously priced fuel would not solve anything.

We all agree on this and by 2100 this is how it will be. The problem is that you and your ilk want to shut down all non green power plants today and if half the world dies while we wait for green energy to make up the difference, that is alright with you. Like a typical liberal, you love mankind, but you can't stand people and you are willing to kill as many as it takes to get your way.

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11 hours ago, markslawson said:

 and no one ever said that coal plants can always put out full power.

You must not read the forum.

People always harp on renewables because they are not "always on" like fossil fuels.  "Nameplate capacity" availability yada yada.

Fact is fossil plants fail to deliver plenty, but that is purposely ignored by the cult.

 

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11 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

We all agree on this and by 2100 this is how it will be. The problem is that you and your ilk want to shut down all non green power plants today and if half the world dies while we wait for green energy to make up the difference, that is alright with you. Like a typical liberal, you love mankind, but you can't stand people and you are willing to kill as many as it takes to get your way.

Pollution already kills people. Global warming has the potential to kill near everyone.

You may not be correct in your assessment of death tolls on each side.

 

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One day, by 2100, we will have ample renewable energy production and storage. But, in order to fill the bank accounts of the greenies and the Elites, greenies demand 100 % changeover by artificial dates, no matter now many people suffer and die. But, people are refusing to die and dirty coal plants are being built and enlarged, as well as the people paying very high prices for energy while the greenies laugh at us. So, when you are choking on polluted air, thank a greenie.

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20 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You must not read the forum.

People always harp on renewables because they are not "always on" like fossil fuels.  "Nameplate capacity" availability yada yada.

Fact is fossil plants fail to deliver plenty, but that is purposely ignored by the cult.

 

Inspection and maintenance intervals

The recommended maintenance intervals are similar for most makes of gas turbines. These are:

  • Combustor inspection at 8,000 equivalent operating hours (EOH)
  • Hot gas path component at 24,000 EOH
  • Major inspection at around 48,000 to 50,000 EOH

All gas turbines need the above to maintain their warranty so all will be routinely out of service. Steam turbines generally every 2-3 years. Wind turbines 1-2 years etc etc

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