Wind droughts

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Canada, Germany aim to start hydrogen shipments in 2025

The leaders of Germany and Canada said Tuesday a new hydrogen pact will kick-start a transatlantic hydrogen supply chain, with the first deliveries expected in just three years.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz signed the deal in the port town of Stephenville, Newfoundland. A Canadian company has plans to build a zero-emission plant that will use wind energy to produce hydrogen and ammonia for export.

Hydrogen is seen as a component of Europe’s plan to reduce its reliance on Russian fossil fuels, particularly in light of the war in Ukraine and recent reductions in the supply of Russian natural gas to Germany and other countries.

“The market case and the need to scale up was coming and wasn’t quite here yet. Russia’s illegal and unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine has meant that everything gets accelerated,” Trudeau said.

Scholz said Canada is Germany’s partner of choice as the country moves away from relying on Russia to supply energy.

“Our need might be even higher under the new circumstances,” Scholz said.

Natural gas prices have surged as Russia has reduced or cut off natural gas flows to a dozen European Union countries, fueling inflation and raising the risk that Europe could plunge into recession. Germans have been urged to cut gas use now so the country will have enough for the winter ahead.

 

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, Michael Sanches said:

The important thing is that used fiberglass windmill blades can be turned into gummy bears. Yummy!

Just don't eat the green gummy bears. They are made from people.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

Just don't eat the green gummy bears. They are made from people.

They are not made from people, they are living beings of their own, frolicking on alpine meadows of Austria not too far from where I live. Till they catch the poor things, and throw them into gasoline in order to make Red Bull!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Canada, Germany aim to start hydrogen shipments in 2025

The leaders of Germany and Canada said Tuesday a new hydrogen pact will kick-start a transatlantic hydrogen supply chain, with the first deliveries expected in just three years.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz signed the deal in the port town of Stephenville, Newfoundland. A Canadian company has plans to build a zero-emission plant that will use wind energy to produce hydrogen and ammonia for export.

Hydrogen is seen as a component of Europe’s plan to reduce its reliance on Russian fossil fuels, particularly in light of the war in Ukraine and recent reductions in the supply of Russian natural gas to Germany and other countries.

“The market case and the need to scale up was coming and wasn’t quite here yet. Russia’s illegal and unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine has meant that everything gets accelerated,” Trudeau said.

Scholz said Canada is Germany’s partner of choice as the country moves away from relying on Russia to supply energy.

“Our need might be even higher under the new circumstances,” Scholz said.

Natural gas prices have surged as Russia has reduced or cut off natural gas flows to a dozen European Union countries, fueling inflation and raising the risk that Europe could plunge into recession. Germans have been urged to cut gas use now so the country will have enough for the winter ahead.

You want to bet that this is not going to happen? They need to invent a meaningful way to transport the stuff over the ocean first. Nothing wrong with ammonia.

[Michael Sanches + 187]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Canada, Germany aim to start hydrogen shipments in 2025

The leaders of Germany and Canada said Tuesday a new hydrogen pact will kick-start a transatlantic hydrogen supply chain, with the first deliveries expected in just three years.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz signed the deal in the port town of Stephenville, Newfoundland. A Canadian company has plans to build a zero-emission plant that will use wind energy to produce hydrogen and ammonia for export.

 

 

Is this like the plans for Solyndra to produce unlimited quantities of solar panels?

"World Energy chair John Risley says if the project's wind turbines are not approved, the project will not go ahead. Newfoundland Hydro does not have the generating capacity to supply the hydrogen plant," Risley said Monday."

"Others say they feel uncomfortable with the close ties between the premier of the province and a wealthy businessman backing one of the proposals."

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

Is this like the plans for Solyndra to produce unlimited quantities of solar panels?

"World Energy chair John Risley says if the project's wind turbines are not approved, the project will not go ahead. Newfoundland Hydro does not have the generating capacity to supply the hydrogen plant," Risley said Monday."

"Others say they feel uncomfortable with the close ties between the premier of the province and a wealthy businessman backing one of the proposals."

You possibly could produce a lot, but they will not be competitive with regular silicon ones. CIGS was supposed to bring the cost of an installed watt to under $1, but never quite managed, AFAIK.

The generating capacity is irrelevant. There is no meaningful shipping means for it. Liquid hydrogen remains liquid only when it is pretty damn close to absolute zero.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

You possibly could produce a lot, but they will not be competitive with regular silicon ones. CIGS was supposed to bring the cost of an installed watt to under $1, but never quite managed, AFAIK.

The generating capacity is irrelevant. There is no meaningful shipping means for it. Liquid hydrogen remains liquid only when it is pretty damn close to absolute zero.

That is why they are making ammonia, for ease of shipping. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

17 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That is why they are making ammonia, for ease of shipping. 

And "hydrogen shipments" for clickbaiting headline? Ammonia is a commodity, buy all you want.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

47 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

And "hydrogen shipments" for clickbaiting headline? Ammonia is a commodity, buy all you want.

green hydrogen shipped as ammonia

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

9 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

green hydrogen shipped as ammonia

Green hydrogen is just hydrogen, AFAIK. Otherwise, I might as well ship it as "green gasoline"

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

4 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Green hydrogen is just hydrogen, AFAIK. Otherwise, I might as well ship it as "green gasoline"

Green hydrogen is made via electrolysis powered by green energy.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Green hydrogen is made via electrolysis powered by green energy.

And? Add CO and catalyst, and you get yourself some green Fischer-Tropsch GTL gasoline. How is it different from using it for synthesizing ammonia?

Edited August 24, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

21 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

And? Add CO and catalyst, and you get yourself some green Fischer-Tropsch GTL gasoline. How is it different from using it for synthesizing ammonia?

Yes green hydrogen can be used as the base for many molecules. Since the industry is focusing on ammonia my guess is that ammonia is cheaper to produce than hydrocarbons. Green gasoline requires green carbon which will add significantly to the cost.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes green hydrogen can be used as the base for many molecules. Since the industry is focusing on ammonia my guess is that ammonia is cheaper to produce than hydrocarbons. Green gasoline requires green carbon which will add significantly to the cost.

Or subtract from the cost, if that carbon comes from carbon sequestration elsewhere. Would that count as green carbon?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Or subtract from the cost, if that carbon comes from carbon sequestration elsewhere. Would that count as green carbon?

No it wouldn't count. Green carbon is extracted from the atmosphere.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No it wouldn't count. Green carbon is extracted from the atmosphere.

How is it not the same? Anyhow, I think you just invented all this yourself.

I don't think there is a specific definition for "green carbon" like there is for hydrogen, but if there were, it'd likely be any renewable source, eq

https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/33738

In any event, I haven't been able to find anybody else defining it like you.

Extracting carbon from just the atmosphere would be incredibly dubious, because of how relative little CO2 there is. Much smarter to catch it at the (re)emission stage, for example by burning biomass, which does a much better job at concentrating it than any human tech.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes green hydrogen can be used as the base for many molecules.

It seems that it can be used for just about any scam. Funnily, the one thing that is not actually feasible is distribution of actual hydrogen. Hypothetically, you could make it in situ at great cost, to provide for most compact electrical storage, but I don't think they are going to do it right for the mass market. Too expensive, too dangerous. Check this thing out.

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/new-hydrogen-aurus-is-introduced/

This is an armored vehicle which weights like 3.5 tons. The amount of hydrogen required for 600km only weights 8 kilograms. OK, I am a belieber. However, they pressurize the tank to 700 bars. Some Hindenburg v2.0 in the waiting... The off-the-shelf pneumatic/hydraulic fittings only go up to ~660 bar, which is probably what they use (the pneumatic ratings are done with helium, which is smaller than hydrogen) Bottled hydrogen setup is for ~220 bar.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

18 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

It is also sad how the British have no non-tabloid quality press left.

The Times, The Independent, The Financial Times, The Telegraph

We do like BS stories though I must admit, in that regard we are very similar to Russians.

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

12 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Nothing wrong with ammonia.

Unless of course you breathe it

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

16 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Canada, Germany aim to start hydrogen shipments in 2025

The leaders of Germany and Canada said Tuesday a new hydrogen pact will kick-start a transatlantic hydrogen supply chain, with the first deliveries expected in just three years.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz signed the deal in the port town of Stephenville, Newfoundland. A Canadian company has plans to build a zero-emission plant that will use wind energy to produce hydrogen and ammonia for export.

Hydrogen is seen as a component of Europe’s plan to reduce its reliance on Russian fossil fuels, particularly in light of the war in Ukraine and recent reductions in the supply of Russian natural gas to Germany and other countries.

“The market case and the need to scale up was coming and wasn’t quite here yet. Russia’s illegal and unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine has meant that everything gets accelerated,” Trudeau said.

Scholz said Canada is Germany’s partner of choice as the country moves away from relying on Russia to supply energy.

“Our need might be even higher under the new circumstances,” Scholz said.

Natural gas prices have surged as Russia has reduced or cut off natural gas flows to a dozen European Union countries, fueling inflation and raising the risk that Europe could plunge into recession. Germans have been urged to cut gas use now so the country will have enough for the winter ahead.

 

This is surely nonsense.

Why not get green hydrogen from all the wind power from the N.Sea, its a lot closer and would be a lot cheaper.

Install some electrolysers at the coast and build a lined pipeline to avoid embrittlement and hey presto!

Alternatively buy some from us

https://www.csis.org/analysis/united-kingdoms-hydrogen-strategy#:~:text=The UK Hydrogen Strategy is a roadmap of future policies,broad approach is relatively clear.

Or install some SMR's with electrolysers bolted on and youve got yourself some zero emission pink hydrogen!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

The Times, The Independent, The Financial Times, The Telegraph

We do like BS stories though I must admit, in that regard we are very similar to Russians.

Ah, FT. Finger-licking good

https://web.archive.org/web/20140730155346/http://prospect.rsc.org:80/blogs/cw/2012/09/12/glassblowing-and-old-newspaper/

(There is enough lead in the pink newsprint of theirs to make crystal glass. The dear EU, in its infinite wisdom, requires crystal glass to be at least 28% lead by weight, but simultaneously prohibits any lead-containing chemicals)

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

We do like BS stories though I must admit, in that regard we are very similar to Russians.

Russians don't believe anything they see in their press. Some do believe yours, which is incredibly stupid, because your press is even worse.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

This is surely nonsense.

Why not get green hydrogen from all the wind power from the N.Sea, its a lot closer and would be a lot cheaper.

Install some electrolysers at the coast and build a lined pipeline to avoid embrittlement and hey presto!

Alternatively buy some from us

https://www.csis.org/analysis/united-kingdoms-hydrogen-strategy#:~:text=The UK Hydrogen Strategy is a roadmap of future policies,broad approach is relatively clear.

Or install some SMR's with electrolysers bolted on and youve got yourself some zero emission pink hydrogen!

SMR's are way off in the future if ever. This project is set to start operation in a few years. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

SMR's are way off in the future if ever. This project is set to start operation in a few years. 

The Russian equivalent is shipping. Any reactor out of a Russian nuclear submarine or icebreaker will do with very little modification. It is only difficult in the West, because your marine reactors normally run on bomb-grade level of enrichment.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The Russian equivalent is shipping. Any reactor out of a Russian nuclear submarine or icebreaker will do with very little modification. It is only difficult in the West, because your marine reactors normally run on bomb-grade level of enrichment.

More of your nonsense. Your naval reactors are not the equivalent of proposed SMRs. If they were so awesome they would be being used somewhere outside of a ship. According to Wiki, Russia has one small reactor in operation. It is a notorious RBMK that was built in the 1970's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_small_nuclear_reactors