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E-car Sales Collapse

markslawson in Oil (General)

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specinho    + 470

specinho

22 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You can buy way nicer RVs and limos than that.

It is a comparison between old design and new.

RV might be more suitable for long distance trip or used as mobile house. Not so much for prestige daily/weekly/monthly/yearly usage or for welcoming visiting guest(s) like Rolls Royce.

Not sure if it is true in different places but usage of limo over here is limited by parking space and convenience to make a turn. Hence, it is generally seen only at the final send off progression of people with respected social status. There is no way to compare old design and new since the back is always in one form. 'o' <_>

 

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notsonice    + 1,262

DM

Batteries prices keep dropping through the floor and at the same time the energy density (WH/KG) keeps increasing at a double digit percentage per year...IE Overall EV weight is dropping with longer ranges per charge and faster charging rates keeps increasing
 
IE the batteries (LFP) that are now coming to the market in 2025 (oh 2025 is just a few months away) have energy densities of 300wh/kg and  300 watt-hours gets you one mile ....so now EV batteries will drop in weight from 400 kg for a 80 kw-hour (270 mile range)  These newer batteries will weigh only 270 KG for the same range...........EVs are now going to be same overall weight  comparable to the same  sized clunker....Oh my batteries plus the electric motor are now going to be the same weight as a clunker motor (remember Luddites ....Clunker motors are made typically of Cast Iron (same materials that boat anchors are made of)
 
Clunkers are doomed
 

.

 

 

image.png

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

On 10/18/2024 at 1:51 PM, notsonice said:
Batteries prices keep dropping through the floor and at the same time the energy density (WH/KG) keeps increasing at a double digit percentage per year...IE Overall EV weight is dropping with longer ranges per charge and faster charging rates keeps increasing
 
IE the batteries (LFP) that are now coming to the market in 2025 (oh 2025 is just a few months away) have energy densities of 300wh/kg and  300 watt-hours gets you one mile ....so now EV batteries will drop in weight from 400 kg for a 80 kw-hour (270 mile range)  These newer batteries will weigh only 270 KG for the same range...........EVs are now going to be same overall weight  comparable to the same  sized clunker....Oh my batteries plus the electric motor are now going to be the same weight as a clunker motor (remember Luddites ....Clunker motors are made typically of Cast Iron (same materials that boat anchors are made of)
 
Clunkers are doomed
 

.

 

 

image.png

"Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition.

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turbguy    + 1,547

turbguy

(edited)

9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

"Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition.

"You ain't seen nothin' yet" appears to apply.

IMO, batteries are at a comparable technological stage of when manufactures were finally able to cast a relatively defect-free cast iron engine block,,and begin to make a profit.

Edited by turbguy
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notsonice    + 1,262

DM

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

"Are expected"..."are expected"..."are expected"...funny how those expectations never come to fruition.

funny how you are never right

try this chart on for size........notice how the price dropped in half in just one year

Luddite, try to keep up with what is happening 

🔋 Battery prices continue to drop, lowering the cost of electric vehicles

 

How much further can battery price drop - by TP Huang

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

Just now, notsonice said:

funny how you are never right

try this chart on for size........notice how the price dropped in half in just one year

Luddite, try to keep up with what is happening 

🔋 Battery prices continue to drop, lowering the cost of electric vehicles

 

How much further can battery price drop - by TP Huang

Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens.

Edited by Ecocharger
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens.

Look at oil prices, then use that same logic. 

WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.

 

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

27 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Look at oil prices, then use that same logic. 

WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.

 

Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales.

I can see that Economics was not your area of study.

Edited by Ecocharger
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

44 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales.

I can see that Economics was not your area of study.

Quit pushing the economics shtick.  All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else.

"Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens."

WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.

You have an internal conflict where you think oil is in strong demand yet oil prices are falling.

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

14 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Quit pushing the economics shtick.  All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else.

"Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens."

WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.

You have an internal conflict where you think oil is in strong demand yet oil prices are falling.

You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply.

Edited by Ecocharger
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

(edited)

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply.

All I asked was for you to use the same logic for oil as you do anything else.

"Prices fell because of the lack of demand and the buildup of unsold product...funny how that happens."

WTI was ~$85 last year and is now ~$71.

Supply was in the quote of yours I mentioned.  Use the same logic for oil!

Edited by TailingsPond
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

(edited)

22 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales.

I can see that Economics was not your area of study.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Saudi-Oil-Export-Revenues-Hit-Three-Year-Low-as-Prices-Decline.html

Three year low, price decline.  "The decline was primarily driven by lower oil prices and weaker global demand, particularly in China."

Meanwhile Tesla records large profits.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Teslas-Profit-Surge-Signals-End-of-Price-War.html

Tesla's Q3 results exceeded expectations, with a significant increase in profit margins driven by lower costs and strong performance in the energy business.

I'm glad I didn't study economics at your school, or in general - I got a degree in a real science.

Edited by TailingsPond
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

Tesla up 21.9% in One Day!  +60% in last 6 months.

OXY petroleum up 0.06% today, -23.7% last 6 months.

Tell me more about your economics education and how gas is beating EVs.

Let me explain that for you; an investment in Tesla 6 months ago would be way up, the same investment in oil would be way down.

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

48 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Tesla up 21.9% in One Day!  +60% in last 6 months.

OXY petroleum up 0.06% today, -23.7% last 6 months.

Tell me more about your economics education and how gas is beating EVs.

Let me explain that for you; an investment in Tesla 6 months ago would be way up, the same investment in oil would be way down.

Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories.

Even  a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that.

Edited by Ecocharger

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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

(edited)

24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories.

Even  a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that.

Is production or profit the goal?

Many sources say demand is down, many sources.

I showed you current market data, it is not my opinion or "someday soon" - right now EV stocks are way up and oil is down; try not to ignore reality.

Edited by TailingsPond
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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

(edited)

50 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Production for oil is up this year to another all-time high with a higher level of demand and lower inventory levels, while EVs are piling up on inventories.

Even  a non-economist like yourself should be able to understand that.

Are you seriously going to pretend Tesla's Q3 report doesn't exist? 

It was so great it induced a massive increase in investment in the company.  All those investors think there is a future for EVs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_voting

 

Edited by TailingsPond
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specinho    + 470

specinho

(edited)

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Saudi-Oil-Export-Revenues-Hit-Three-Year-Low-as-Prices-Decline.html

Three year low, price decline.  "The decline was primarily driven by lower oil prices and weaker global demand, particularly in China."

Meanwhile Tesla records large profits.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Teslas-Profit-Surge-Signals-End-of-Price-War.html

Tesla's Q3 results exceeded expectations, with a significant increase in profit margins driven by lower costs and strong performance in the energy business.

I'm glad I didn't study economics at your school, or in general - I got a degree in a real science.

- when you are reading report by Tesla, you need to understand what it is actually saying behind the confusing terms used...

1. Tesla expects to achieve slight growth in vehicle deliveries in 2024.  

Note: This might mean tesla is still delivering what was ordered, not new sales. Remember it takes 3-5 years to receive Tesla booked?

2. Our company is currently between two major growth waves: the first one began with the global expansion of the Model 3/Y platform and we believe the next one will be initiated by advances in autonomy and introduction of new products, including those built on our next generation vehicle platform.

Note: Tesla mentioned model 3 would be phased out soon, due to lower profit margin obtained, few weeks ago? 

- introduction of new products could be costly, especially if they can not be sold...

3. Revenue $25.18 billion
Gross margin ex-credit 19.8%
Operating income $2.72 billion
Free cash flow $2.74 billion
Capital expenditure $3.51 billion

Note: what do they mean? 'n'

a) gross margin ex-credit = revenue minus previously recorded sales or credit?

- ~ $25 b x 20/100 =  5 billion?

b) revenue = income

- operating income = revenue - expenditure?

- how could cash > income?

c) capital expenditure = interest of loans?

- if net profit = gross operating profit - capital expenditure etc, how much is net profit then?

d) tesla stock rises is good. Try cash out??

Edited by specinho

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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

(edited)

29 minutes ago, specinho said:

- when you are reading report by Tesla, you need to understand what it is actually saying behind the sugar coating...

You need to understand that the market price is not some media sugar coating.

The stock price is not reported by Tesla man - it is what people are buying it at.

Real numbers, not speculation.

Edited by TailingsPond
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Rob Plant    + 2,756

RP

15 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You obviously lack any training in Economics, final price is reliant not just on demand but also on supply.

Eco you make yourself look extremely foolish with comments like this.

You cannot argue against your own statements and look credible yo anyone!

Tailingspond has got your number thats for sure!

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notsonice    + 1,262

DM

On 10/23/2024 at 7:12 PM, Ecocharger said:

Oil demand is now at an all-time high. Low inventories, unlike the backup in EV sales.

I can see that Economics was not your area of study.

unlike the backup in EV sales.????

funny how you never back up your Luddite BS........why don't you???? pretty hard to back up your lies?????

you buy into the lies because it is all you have??? let me guess you are aligned with anti-ev political forces that deny that climate change is happening as these forces just want to sell coal and these forces will lie over and over that EV sales are down, despite that they continue to rise.

read the following article , enjoy

 

https://electrek.co/2024/10/24/ev-sales-have-not-fallen-cooled-slowed-or-slumped-stop-lying-in-headlines/

EV sales have not fallen, cooled, slowed or slumped. Stop lying in headlines.

EV sales continue to rise, but the last year of headlines falsely stating otherwise would leave you thinking they haven’t. After about full year of these lies, it would be nice for journalists to stop pushing this false narrative that they could find the truth behind by simply looking up a single number for once.

image.png

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notsonice    + 1,262

DM

for the form Luddites that live in Denial
 
 
.

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

18 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Eco you make yourself look extremely foolish with comments like this.

You cannot argue against your own statements and look credible yo anyone!

Tailingspond has got your number thats for sure!

Rob you are off again...try and control yourself.

Give us something of substance. If you can.

Edited by Ecocharger

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Ecocharger    + 1,480

DL

(edited)

On 10/24/2024 at 9:22 PM, TailingsPond said:

Are you seriously going to pretend Tesla's Q3 report doesn't exist? 

It was so great it induced a massive increase in investment in the company.  All those investors think there is a future for EVs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_voting

 

I guess you pressed the wrong button, old boy. 

There is nothing in your link which could support your statements. Another "faux economics" moment?

Edited by Ecocharger

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TailingsPond    + 1,009

GE

24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I guess you pressed the wrong button, old boy. 

There is nothing in your link which could support your statements. Another "faux economics" moment?

If you have a problem with the link take it up with the authors. Haha.

Why do you ignore the Tesla Q3 results and the resultant massive investment in the EV market? 

If you wish to continue to say EVs are done you need to address the current situation.

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