TailingsPond + 460 GE April 6, 2023 7 hours ago, notsonice said: what would one fight for???? The GOP and the Dems alike know better than to screw with everyones personal liberties..... The civil war was fought for real civil liberties.... Gun confiscation is not going to happen....just rules on who can own and what you can own and what how you can use it for ...nothing new While I don't think there will be a civil war there are real threats to civil liberties right now (e.g. Roe vs Wade, LGBT rights, etc.). Another big one is loss of democracy (Jan 6). If people don't trust the electoral system they don't feel represented. Wide-sweeping gun control will eventually happen; the youth of the nation are tired of getting shot up and they will soon be of voting and child bearing age. They will want their kids to be safer than they were. Thoughts and prayers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 6, 2023 8 hours ago, notsonice said: civil war??? over what??? reality check ....on a personal level ....everyones has the right to own property or start a business or to do as they please in their own homes what would one fight for???? The GOP and the Dems alike know better than to screw with everyones personal liberties..... The civil war was fought for real civil liberties.... Perhaps it was fought for real civil liberties on one side, but on the "other side" it was simply MONEY! "Don't take my chattel"! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 6, 2023 (edited) On 4/5/2023 at 1:07 AM, Rob Plant said: One of the questions I asked in the initial start of this topic was this " Do you guys feel there is ever going to be a more accepting middle ground between the 2 parties or even the potential politically for a new party to take that middle ground and become a force in years to come?" Nobody has commented on whether this is feasable,likely or downright crazy. Maybe the 2 main parties are just too big, too rich and too powerful for a middle ground party to gain any meaningful traction? Would love some of your thoughts on this. Actually this two party concept being at extreme odds is a false narrative. Our Democratic party has been severely compromised with a various factions. The Socialist party combined with the Progressive wing have combined into one. They have taken a group of subset activists into their tent such as Gay&Antifa activists crowd into to their tents along with race division activists. A simply wonderful delightful bunch. Actually this party might be going under a fundamental reboot, Joe Manchin is floating a independent presidential campaign, that would splinter the party and expose a group af very disturbed individuals. What will be most interesting is to uncover who is funding these knuckle heads..and to what end. Personally I believe it to be China, Soros along with world wide corporation's. Edited April 6, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 460 GE April 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Actually this two party concept being at extreme odds is a false narrative. Our Democratic party has been severely compromised with a various factions. You are right that one party has been compromised, but you got it ass backwards as usual. "Proud boys stand by." 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 6, 2023 21 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Proud boys stand by." Same group of Knuckle Heads. Both groups need to dealt with. Portland is well on its way dealing with such matters. It seems the true liberal community has had enough. Blowing Jo Ann Hardesty back onto the streets...imagine that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,063 DM April 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Actually this two party concept being at extreme odds is a false narrative. Our Democratic party has been severely compromised with a various factions. The Socialist party combined with the Progressive wing have combined into one. They have taken a group of subset activists into their tent such as Gay&Antifa activists crowd into to their tents along with race division activists. A simply wonderful delightful bunch. Actually this party might be going under a fundamental reboot, Joe Manchin is floating a independent presidential campaign, that would splinter the party and expose a group af very disturbed individuals. What will be most interesting is to uncover who is funding these knuckle heads..and to what end. Personally I believe it to be China, Soros along with world wide corporation's. The Socialist party combined with the Progressive wing have combined into one. ???? what a load of BS........ Are you still waiting for Trump to overturn the election???? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,063 DM April 6, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: You are right that one party has been compromised, but you got it ass backwards as usual. "Proud boys stand by." "Proud boys stand by."......... The Proud Boys never got a pardon from Trump....I wonder how they feel about him now...as they rot away in lockup I bet they are quite pissed that Trump never hired them lawyers to help keep them out of lockup......... Standing by...behind bars Edited April 6, 2023 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 642 April 7, 2023 13 hours ago, turbguy said: Perhaps it was fought for real civil liberties on one side, but on the "other side" it was simply MONEY! "Don't take my chattel"! States rights played a large role also. Not many southerners owned slaves. They worked like slaves to survive though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 642 April 7, 2023 9 hours ago, notsonice said: "Proud boys stand by."......... The Proud Boys never got a pardon from Trump....I wonder how they feel about him now...as they rot away in lockup I bet they are quite pissed that Trump never hired them lawyers to help keep them out of lockup......... Standing by...behind bars Most of those that were put in jail or still are in jail were guilty of minor crimes and were encouraged by FBI agents to break the law initially. It is a disgrace that they are still in jail. That would include any Proud Boys. Trump did not encourage anyone to break any laws whatsoever. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 642 April 7, 2023 The premise of this topic is disproven by the current riots in France over the minor increase in retirement age, which is lower than ours. The French also get five weeks more vacation time than Americans do. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/world/europe/france-protests-pensions-macron.html French Unions, Still Furious Over Pension Law, Resume Protests Hundreds of thousands again took to the streets to rally against raising the retirement age, but there were signs that the demonstrations were losing some steam, at least for now. Give this article Video 0:17 0:38 TAP TO UNMUTE Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets yet again, calling for President Emmanuel Macron’s pension overhaul to be blocked.CreditCredit...Loic Venance/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images By Aurelien Breeden Reporting from Paris April 6, 2023Updated 2:54 p.m. ET 4 MIN READ French workers marched and went on strike around the country on Thursday for the 11th time in three months, as the stalemate between President Emmanuel Macron and labor unions endured even after his pension overhaul, which raised the legal age of retirement to 64 from 62, has become law. About 570,000 protesters took to the streets of France, according to French authorities, with violent clashes in some places. Unions gave the much higher figure of 2 million. It was a large number but nonetheless lower than in previous rounds of protests, a sign that a movement that has posed the greatest political threat to Mr. Macron’s second term was losing some steam, at least for now. Roughly 740,000 people marched around the country last week, and some of the biggest protest days of the past few months had attracted over 1 million people. The number of strikers in key sectors like transportation and education has also slowly declined. ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story France’s national railway company said three out of four high-speed trains were running on Thursday, as well as one in two regional express trains, far better than on previous strike days; while traffic on the Paris transportation network was close to normal. The Education Ministry said that about 8 percent of teachers were on strike, far fewer than before. But disruptions and small acts of protest, like brief traffic blockages, have not stopped, including on days without organized protests, and some strikes could pick up again. In Paris, where the streets are now clear of mounds of trash that had piled up during a weekslong garbage-collector walkout, one of the main unions is threatening a new strike next week. Unions are also planning a new day of protests on the eve of a key ruling on the pension law by the Constitutional Council, a body that reviews legislation to ensure that it conforms to the Constitution. That ruling is expected next week. The protests on Thursday came a day after a cordial but fruitless meeting — the first since January — between Prime Minister Élisabeth Borne and the heads of the main labor unions. The union representatives left after less than an hour and complained that they were not being heard. Image Riot police officers outside a restaurant in Paris during demonstrations on Thursday. Mr. Macron celebrated his 2017 election victory at the restaurant.Credit...Michel Euler/Associated Press “They are living in a parallel reality,” Sophie Binet, the newly elected head of the Confédération Générale du Travail, France’s second-largest labor union, told reporters at a march in Paris on Thursday. ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story Ms. Binet acknowledged that enthusiasm for the walkouts was waning in some areas, partly because of the financial burden for striking workers, but she said that the protests were a “long-distance race,” not a sprint. As long as the pension overhaul “is not withdrawn, the mobilization will continue in one form or another,” she added. On Wednesday, protesters briefly shut the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and unfurled a banner that read “No to 64!” from the top of the famous landmark. Electricity workers have continued making sporadic power cuts in official buildings, including at a local prefecture in Lyon on Thursday. Some universities are still being occupied by protesting students. The chaotic unrest that followed Mr. Macron’s decision to push the law through Parliament without a full vote has slightly subsided — but not the persistent opposition to the pension overhaul and the anger against Mr. Macron, who is currently on a state visit to China but is closely following the turmoil back home. ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story While the protests around the country were mostly calm, they were also marred by now-familiar clashes and injuries, as a minority of protesters threw projectiles at riot police, who responded with tear gas and batons. In Nancy, the door to a local French central bank office was set on fire. In Lyon, protesters looted a Nespresso store and tossed coffee capsules into the crowd. In Paris, protesters lit bonfires and smashed in the windows of several bank branches. Some also targeted La Rotonde, the restaurant where Mr. Macron celebrated his 2017 electoral victory, pelting the establishment with rocks and bottles, and starting a small blaze on an awning that was quickly put out by firefighters. France’s interior minister said that over 150 officers had been injured during the protests, and over 100 people had been arrested. Mr. Macron’s opponents have warned that his insistence on pushing through the pension overhaul is creating a dangerous mix. ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story Recent polling has shown that voters would be more likely to support Marine Le Pen, the far-right leader and Mr. Macron’s strongest rival in the past two French elections, and less likely to back Mr. Macron or his allies in a hypothetical election. Laurent Berger, the leader of the Confédération Française Démocratique du Travail, France’s largest labor union, told reporters at a protest in Paris that Mr. Macron’s approach had led to increased mistrust toward the government, higher social tensions and more support for the far right. “If those aren’t all the ingredients of a democratic crisis, I don’t know what is,” Mr. Berger said. Mr. Macron’s government has argued that it followed the law at every step and that most opposition parties presented no realistic alternatives to ensure that the French pension system remains financially sustainable. Image Tear gas surrounded protesters during a clash with the police in Nantes on Thursday. Credit...Jeremias Gonzalez/Associated Press ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story The government maintains that it wants to talk with the unions but has refused to discuss the age increase, while the unions insist that dropping the measure is the only way forward. Each side has accused the other of refusing to compromise. “I understand that we have been unable to convince at this time, but it’s work that must continue in the long term,” Olivier Véran, spokesman for the French government, told France Inter radio. “The far right is high in voting intentions,” Mr. Véran acknowledged. But, he added: “Why? Because it says nothing, because it offers nothing, and as always it reaps the fruits of anger.” The new pension law will stand as is unless the Constitutional Council strikes down part or all of it. Legal experts are divided over a possible outcome. The conflict between Mr. Macron and the opposition is now essentially in limbo, with all sides awaiting the council’s ruling. ADVERTISEMENT Continue reading the main story “The impasse” was the headline on the front page of Le Parisien, a French daily newspaper, on Thursday, while Olivier Baccuzat, deputy editor in chief of L’Opinion, another newspaper, wrote that the meeting between Ms. Borne and the unions “ended exactly as one might have feared: with nothing.” “And for good reason, each of the protagonists got exactly what they came for: nothing,” he added in his editorial. “Or rather, little things that allow both sides to keep up appearances and to boast that they have not given up anything.” France’s Pension Battle French Anger at Macron Seeps Into Unexpected Corners March 31, 2023 Macron, Trying to Move Past Pension Fury, Announces Water Plan March 30, 2023 Seized by More Protests, France Is Caught in a Tense Impasse March 28, 2023 Aurelien Breeden has covered France from the Paris bureau since 2014. He has reported on some of the worst terrorist attacks to hit the country, the dismantling of the migrant camp in Calais and France's tumultuous 2017 presidential election. @aurelienbrd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 7, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, notsonice said: The Socialist party combined with the Progressive wing have combined into one. ???? what a load of BS........ Are you still waiting for Trump to overturn the election???? Ya Don't Say..LMAO you mongrel. https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/democratic-socialists-america/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders#:~:text=A self-described democratic socialist,second place in both campaigns. A self-described democratic socialist, he is often seen as a leader of the progressive movement in the United States. Sanders unsuccessfully sought the Democratic Party nomination for president of the United States in 2016 and 2020, finishing in second place in both campaigns. Edited April 7, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 7, 2023 (edited) https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/ The Rise of the Violent Left Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead? In the late ’80s, left-wing punk fans in the United States began following suit, though they initially called their groups Anti-Racist Action, on the theory that Americans would be more familiar with fighting racism than fascism. According to Mark Bray, the author of the forthcoming Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, these activists toured with popular alternative bands in the ’90s, trying to ensure that neo-Nazis did not recruit their fans. In 2002, they disrupted a speech by the head of the World Church of the Creator, a white-supremacist group in Pennsylvania; 25 people were arrested in the resulting brawl. Edited April 7, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: States rights played a large role also. Not many southerners owned slaves. They worked like slaves to survive though. The American Civil War was primarily caused by the disagreement over the issue of slavery between the northern states, which opposed slavery, and the southern states, which relied heavily on it for their economy (read: MONEY) and way of life. That said,there were other factors that contributed to the outbreak of the war, including: Economic and social differences between the North and South: The North was rapidly industrializing, while the South remained primarily agrarian. This led to differences in culture, values, and economic interests that contributed to tensions between the two regions. Political differences: The North and South had different political systems and views on the role of government, which further divided the country. For example, the South believed in states' rights and the power of the individual states to make decisions, while the North believed in a stronger central government. Territorial disputes: The issue of whether new territories and states admitted to the Union would allow slavery (READ: MONEY) or not was a major point of contention. The South feared that the North's opposition to slavery would limit their ability to expand their territory and power. Failure of compromise: Attempts at compromise, such as the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850, had temporarily eased tensions, but ultimately failed to resolve the underlying issues. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 8, 2023 (edited) On 4/5/2023 at 1:07 AM, Rob Plant said: One of the questions I asked in the initial start of this topic was this " Do you guys feel there is ever going to be a more accepting middle ground between the 2 parties or even the potential politically for a new party to take that middle ground and become a force in years to come?" Nobody has commented on whether this is feasable,likely or downright crazy. Maybe the 2 main parties are just too big, too rich and too powerful for a middle ground party to gain any meaningful traction? Would love some of your thoughts on this. When the Russian collusion concept failed, the Democratic leadership took this battle to the streets. Using racial discord along with the social misfits in US society. After the below occurrence discord and violence rocked this country. Of course this is only a opinion on history that must be known..Yet history cannot be unwritten. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/03/05/chuck-schumer-threatening-rhetoric-gorsuch-kavanaugh-crosses-line-editorials-debates/4964578002/ Sen. Chuck Schumer's threatening rhetoric to Supreme Court justices crosses a line "I want to tell you, Gorsuch; I want to tell you, Kavanaugh: You have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer roared Wednesday to a crowd of protesters angry over a Louisiana case before the court that threatens abortion rights. "You won't know what hit if you go forward with these awful decisions." Edited April 8, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 460 GE April 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Of course this is only a opinion on history that must be known..Yet history cannot be unwritten. 😄 Written history is often biased garbage and it is adjusted all the time. "History is written by the victors" - Churchill "A fable agreed upon." - Napoleon You have obviously already consumed far too much disinformation to ever see the truth. You remain extremely loyal to a manipulative cult narrative despite loads of evidence to the contrary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 9, 2023 (edited) On 4/7/2023 at 7:09 AM, turbguy said: The American Civil War was primarily caused by the disagreement over the issue of slavery between the northern states, which opposed slavery, and the southern states, which relied heavily on it for their economy (read: MONEY) and way of life. That said,there were other factors that contributed to the outbreak of the war, including: Economic and social differences between the North and South: The North was rapidly industrializing, while the South remained primarily agrarian. This led to differences in culture, values, and economic interests that contributed to tensions between the two regions. Political differences: The North and South had different political systems and views on the role of government, which further divided the country. For example, the South believed in states' rights and the power of the individual states to make decisions, while the North believed in a stronger central government. Territorial disputes: The issue of whether new territories and states admitted to the Union would allow slavery (READ: MONEY) or not was a major point of contention. The South feared that the North's opposition to slavery would limit their ability to expand their territory and power. Failure of compromise: Attempts at compromise, such as the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850, had temporarily eased tensions, but ultimately failed to resolve the underlying issues. As previously stated...A intelligent conversation. The US does not even rank in humanity's mess. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries Edited April 9, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 9, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: As previously stated...A intelligent conversation. The US does not even rank in humanity's mess. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries It is difficult to determine where the USA ranks in terms of racism compared to other countries. Racism can take different forms and can be influenced by many factors, such as historical context, social structures, and political systems. The UN has identified several countries where racism and discrimination are significant issues, such as Brazil, India, South Africa, and some European countries. Studies and surveys have found that racism is a persistent problem in many countries, including the USA. The USA has a complex history when it comes to racism. We have a legacy of institutionalized racism against indigenous people, African Americans, and other minority groups. While progress has been made in terms of civil rights, there is no denying that racism continues to be a problem in the USA. Racism can take many different forms, from overt acts of discrimination to more subtle biases and prejudices that can affect hiring practices, access to education and healthcare, and other aspects of daily life. People of color in the USA continue to face significant disparities in areas such as income, education, and criminal justice, among others. Hate crimes and incidents of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, or religion have been reported in various parts of the country, showing racism remains a real issue in the USA. "Ranking" of countries regarding racism should not be a "competition", as any form of racism, discrimination, or prejudice is not acceptable. So, what does some "ranking of racism" have to do with money? Edited April 9, 2023 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 9, 2023 19 minutes ago, turbguy said: So, what does some "ranking of racism" have to do with money? Frankly great question. What does racism have to do with anything? As torrid and shorted sighted as it is..It is well within a human rights construct. As you can see it crosses all nations,races and culture's. You might travel the world a bit...It is a very prevalent issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 9, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Frankly great question. What does racism have to do with anything? As torrid and shorted sighted as it is..It is well within a human rights construct. As you can see it crosses all nations,races and culture's. You might travel the world a bit...It is a very prevalent issue. Slavery had to do with money. Significant enhancement of discrimination of people of color developed from the legislated end of slavery in the USA. An unintended consequence?? Edited April 9, 2023 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 9, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, turbguy said: Slavery had to do with money. Proof of concept please. Let us use... Chinese Irish Native American African. Let's not wing it...proof of concept. Perhaps laying it out proportionally. Edited April 9, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 9, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Proof of concept please. Let us use... Chinese Irish Native American African. Let's not wing it...proof of concept. Chinese. Cheap labor for the western portion of the Transcontinental Railroad. Irish. Cheap labor for the eastern portion of the Transcontinental Railroad (also, they were kinda hungry in the homeland). Native American Cheap real estate to be claimed by the Manifest Destiny. (Along that same line of thought, who gave the Pope the deed to South America?) African. Very Cheap labor for just about everything, except perhaps lawmaking. INCLUDING the potential for growth of the chattel "herd". Some things are just self evident, no? Or perhaps I misunderstand your request? Edited April 10, 2023 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 460 GE April 10, 2023 (edited) Build a wall. Hate "Gina." "Chinese virus." Racism is alive and well. Edited April 10, 2023 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 April 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, TailingsPond said: Hate "Gina." "Chinese virus." Indeed the US is on the Cuspid of war with China....soon grasshopper it will happen, even Bejing Biden can no longer hold the truth back. Odd did not Congress authorize full disclosure?? The Bill must be lost in Trumps blinding light. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-signs-bill-to-declassify-covid-origins-intel/ Biden Signs Bill to Declassify Covid-Origins Intel Edited April 10, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,391 April 10, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Odd did not Congress authorize full disclosure?? The Bill must be lost in Trumps blinding light. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/biden-signs-bill-to-declassify-covid-origins-intel/ Biden Signs Bill to Declassify Covid-Origins Intel Not exactly "full" disclosure. S.619 - COVID-19 Origin Act of 2023 This bill requires the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) to declassify all information relating to potential links between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the origin of COVID-19. The ODNI must submit to Congress an unclassified report with all such information with redactions only as necessary to protect sources and methods. Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, [March 20th?]the Director of National Intelligence shall-- (1) declassify any and all information relating to potential links between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the origin of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)... So, expect something to Congress before or about Sunday, June 18, 2023. Edited April 10, 2023 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 460 GE April 10, 2023 (edited) On 4/6/2023 at 9:40 PM, Ron Wagner said: Most of those that were put in jail or still are in jail were guilty of minor crimes and were encouraged by FBI agents to break the law initially. It is a disgrace that they are still in jail. That would include any Proud Boys. Trump did not encourage anyone to break any laws whatsoever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYNke4mUjuI&t=31s Try reality sometime Ron. Edited April 10, 2023 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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