Solving The Space Problem For America’s Solar Industry

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

23 hours ago, turbguy said:

A "new approach" is history??

Human nature is quite extraordinary is it not...France had quite a run from the early 70's on. How a country could derail such success is rather extraordinary.

France went all in on nuclear after the OPEC embargo sparked the 1973 oil shock – unlike Britain, for example, which tapped then-abundant fossil fuel reserves in the North Sea (and is now one of the countries worst-affected by energy inflation).

Nuclear power now produces some 70 percent of France’s energy – the highest proportion in the world – thanks to this long-term strategy known as the Messmer plan (named after its architect, then PM Pierre Messmer) to nourish domestic nuclear expertise and build a large fleet of nuclear reactors. 

And now they return to a smaller reactor..Perhaps the same design used in aircraft carrier's/subs for over 50 years.

Yes a new direction is a rather lame description..a bit of a eye opener.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,391]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Human nature is quite extraordinary is it not...France had quite a run from the early 70's on. How a country could derail such success is rather extraordinary.

France went all in on nuclear after the OPEC embargo sparked the 1973 oil shock – unlike Britain, for example, which tapped then-abundant fossil fuel reserves in the North Sea (and is now one of the countries worst-affected by energy inflation).

Nuclear power now produces some 70 percent of France’s energy – the highest proportion in the world – thanks to this long-term strategy known as the Messmer plan (named after its architect, then PM Pierre Messmer) to nourish domestic nuclear expertise and build a large fleet of nuclear reactors. 

And now they return to a smaller reactor..Perhaps the same design used in aircraft carrier's/subs for over 50 years.

Yes a new direction is a rather lame description..a bit of a eye opener.

 

Let me know when they actually start to use land-based naval reactor designs.

THEN, it's something called "history".

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

29 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Let me know when they actually start to use land-based naval reactor designs.

THEN, it's something called "history".

I do believe the details are being penciled as we bloviate.

Per Mr. Plant 

There are a number of companies designing and building small modular reactors (SMR's) however these are still very expensive circa $1.2b - $2.5b depending on which manufacturers sales pitch you believe. However because theyre modular they can be scaled up to whatever is required in that area so that makes them attractive to potential buyers.

Also there are a number of companies looking into using SMR's to power large container ships

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002954931930192X#:~:text=The mission of this system is sequenced as,mother ship%2C including the propulsion of the ship.

https://energycentral.com/c/ec/south-korean-team-develop-smr-powered-ships

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,391]

36 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

I do believe the details are being penciled as we bloviate.

Per Mr. Plant 

There are a number of companies designing and building small modular reactors (SMR's) however these are still very expensive circa $1.2b - $2.5b depending on which manufacturers sales pitch you believe. However because theyre modular they can be scaled up to whatever is required in that area so that makes them attractive to potential buyers.

Also there are a number of companies looking into using SMR's to power large container ships

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002954931930192X#:~:text=The mission of this system is sequenced as,mother ship%2C including the propulsion of the ship.

https://energycentral.com/c/ec/south-korean-team-develop-smr-powered-ships

 

 

"Looking into" and "Designing" is not history.

Show me ONE company that has actually started "building" a SMR for sale to a paying customer that at least has an MOU in place...

Edited May 22, 2023 by turbguy

[specinho + 439]

Could we have a condensed design of solar panel? 'n'

For example, one thick panel is sufficient for hundreds of houses etc...... 

Or electricity receivable by conduction or reflection of ionosphere, like radio-tv- wifi broadcast signals? 

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

14 hours ago, turbguy said:

"Looking into" and "Designing" is not history.

Show me ONE company that has actually started "building" a SMR for sale to a paying customer that at least has an MOU in place...

There is a MOU in place but they havent to my knowledge started building yet but the MOU was only signed in February 2023, but that is just a matter of time.

This is from the second link I posted

South Korean Team to Develop SMRs to Power Ships

(WNN) Nine South Korean organizations have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to cooperate on the development and demonstration of ships and offshore systems powered with small modular reactors (SMRs). The partners will also develop marine systems and the production of hydrogen using molten salt reactors (MSRs).

Edited May 23, 2023 by Rob Plant

[NickW + 2,714]

Here you go - in the UK

Solar on car parks 'demand has gone through the roof' 

• No additional space used
• Invariably close to large electricity consumers who can directly consume the electricity so no transmission bottleneck problems 
• Provides shading for cars

Why car parks are the hottest space in solar power - BBC News

Interestingly France has legislated to make solar compulsory on all car parks with over 80 spaces. 

 

 

[turbguy + 1,391]

11 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

There is a MOU in place but they havent to my knowledge started building yet but the MOU was only signed in February 2023, but that is just a matter of time.

This is from the second link I posted

South Korean Team to Develop SMRs to Power Ships

(WNN) Nine South Korean organizations have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to cooperate on the development and demonstration of ships and offshore systems powered with small modular reactors (SMRs). The partners will also develop marine systems and the production of hydrogen using molten salt reactors (MSRs).

While that article is indeed noteworthy, unfortunately that MUO is for the formation of a "partnership to develop", not an actual ORDER, or even an MOU from a paying customer for a SMR.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by turbguy

[turbguy + 1,391]

13 hours ago, specinho said:

Could we have a condensed design of solar panel? 'n'

For example, one thick panel is sufficient for hundreds of houses etc...... 

Or electricity receivable by conduction or reflection of ionosphere, like radio-tv- wifi broadcast signals? 

 

"Shades" of Nikolai Tesla??

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

11 hours ago, turbguy said:

While that article is indeed noteworthy, unfortunately that MUO is for the formation of a "partnership to develop", not an actual ORDER, or even an MOU from a paying customer for a SMR.

 

Not quite it states "partnership to develop and demonstrate" which suggests they will indeed build these and if economic which they appear to be against 25 years of bunker fuel for diesel engines, then there wont be any shortage of orders.

Its a bit like nuclear fusion projects like "Iter" trying to prove the science works, but SMR's are a lot further down the line.

However at presesnt you're correct that no "order" from a customer is in place yet as they need to perfect the design and prove its viability. Some big players in those 9 companies though so Its not too far in the future.

[TailingsPond + 460]

26 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Not quite it states "partnership to develop and demonstrate" which suggests they will indeed build these and if economic which they appear to be against 25 years of bunker fuel for diesel engines, then there wont be any shortage of orders.

Its a bit like nuclear fusion projects like "Iter" trying to prove the science works, but SMR's are a lot further down the line.

However at presesnt you're correct that no "order" from a customer is in place yet as they need to perfect the design and prove its viability. Some big players in those 9 companies though so Its not too far in the future.

Numerous small reactors are risky from a contamination / terrorism standpoint.  You don't want radioactive stuff strewn around everywhere.  Blowing up one of those small reactors with simple conventional explosives would be disastrous.

 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

8 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Numerous small reactors are risky from a contamination / terrorism standpoint.  You don't want radioactive stuff strewn around everywhere.  Blowing up one of those small reactors with simple conventional explosives would be disastrous.

 

 

Not really they arent in the same category risk as conventional fission plants.

https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=85976#:~:text=Most of the SMR designs approve advanced or,deployable either as a single or multi-module plant.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/nuclear-power-reactors/small-nuclear-power-reactors.aspx

An extract from above.

Generally, modern small reactors for power generation, and especially SMRs, are expected to have greater simplicity of design, economy of series production largely in factories, short construction times, and reduced siting costs. Most are also designed for a high level of passive or inherent safety in the event of malfunction^c. Also many are designed to be emplaced below ground level, giving a high resistance to terrorist threats. A 2010 report by a special committee convened by the American Nuclear Society showed that many safety provisions necessary, or at least prudent, in large reactors are not necessary in the small designs forthcoming. This is largely due to their higher surface area to volume (and core heat) ratio compared with large units. It means that a lot of the engineering for safety including heat removal in large reactors is not needed in the small reactors^d. Since small reactors are envisaged as replacing fossil fuel plants in many situations, the emergency planning zone required is designed to be no more than about 300 m radius. The combined tables from this report are appended, along with notes of some early small water-, gas-, and liquid metal-cooled reactors.

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/new-recommendations-on-safety-of-smrs-from-the-smr-regulators-forum

https://oecd-nea.org/jcms/pl_71126/examining-the-safety-of-small-modular-reactors

https://small-modular-reactors.org/rolls-royce-smr/#:~:text=Safety features%3A The Rolls-Royce SMR is designed to,system and a passive residual heat removal system.

[turbguy + 1,391]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Some big players in those 9 companies though so Its not too far in the future.

Yes, there are plenty of big players, such as AREVA, Bechtel, BWXT, Dominion, Duke Energy, Energy Northwest, Exelon Generation, GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy, Fluor, Holtec International, NuScale Power, Ontario Power Generation, Southern Nuclear, TVA, and UAMPS in the consortium called "SMR Start".

And that's just for the development of advanced light water SMR's.  

The largest advantage that I see for SMR's is that they can re-power retired fossil sites, reducing considerable investment. Perhaps the largest and most advanced player is TerraPower, planning a new (non-LWR) reactor at the site of the retiring Kemmerer coal plant here in my home state.  It's somewhat larger than a "typical" SMR,though.  It's intended energy storage scheme should also play well with solar and wind generation.

TerraPower is struggling with a source of fuel, though, as currently such material is sourced from....

RUSSIA!

Edited May 24, 2023 by turbguy

[specinho + 439]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:53 AM, turbguy said:

"Shades" of Nikolai Tesla??

Pardon me, i'm not familiar with work of Nikolai Tesla. Would you mind to elaborate what you are trying to say? 🙂

[notsonice + 1,062]

2 hours ago, specinho said:

Pardon me, i'm not familiar with work of Nikolai Tesla. Would you mind to elaborate what you are trying to say? 🙂

 electricity receivable by conduction or reflection of ionosphere, like radio-tv- wifi broadcast signals

[turbguy + 1,391]

14 hours ago, specinho said:

Pardon me, i'm not familiar with work of Nikolai Tesla. Would you mind to elaborate what you are trying to say? 🙂

Wireless power transmission.

Also, "free energy".

[specinho + 439]

🚦🚦🚦 Breaking news! Breaking news !! 🎉🎉🎉

https://www.facebook.com/secretsofuniverse/videos/2592949074201993/
Summary: "Earth magnetic field is cracking.
- rotating earth with moving molten iron generates electric current that creates magnetic field"

A reply from one of the participants (modified):

Outstanding...

Intriguing to watch... 

It mentions " rotating earth with moving molten iron generates electric current that creates magnetic field"..

mmmmmm  ------------------
Conductor     Magnetic bar

Recalling this i.e. electricity is generated when magnetic field is cut by metal conductor. Or, there is a flow of electrons. 

If, moving molten iron, and other metal ions ( positively charged), by convection represent movement of metal conductors, then, the magnetic field might be something not in the move or stationary?

Or, if the moving one is the magnetic field, then, the conductor would be static?

The presence of polar magnetic zones near hudson bay and a small town in south america might show magnetic strip is static, probably pre-existing, not created?

 

Reflective note:

Therefore, can be deduce that 

1. We have a static magnetic strip formed by the core of earth? ( There is an image in the video but the explanation does not tally).... 

2. The magnetic force of this rotating core forms ionosphere? 

3. If we reflect electromagnetic waves via ionosphere to get signals for radio, tv, internet, etc, could we use a conductor to receive electricity? Where do we place the conductor? Outerspace?

Tesla experimented towards it? 

 

4. If electricity also formed when this magnetic force from the core is cut by flowing molten metal in the forms of atoms, compounds, or ions, could we tap it? 

 

5. Solar radiation,  electromagnetic wave, might have attracted to earth by earth magnetic force.

As raised before,

a) if solar light can be received by a man made magnet or conductor? A direct convertion into electricity?

b) if this structure is rotating in height, would we save much space needed by traditional panels that based on wide surface areas in increase receptivity? 

 

[RichieRich$ + 65]

Wow, You are really good with a calculator!

Public spaces or commercial “parking lots” would be liable for personal injuries or be prone to vandalism so that space is out.

The state of Florida just announced that any homeowners with solar on rooftops would be u insurable. You now just lost almost the entire State because what are not homes or commercial are farming.

You won't get farmers that most crops grow at a height of less than 10 inches put panels on farmland. Solar panels may work on the great plains id could be placed high enough not to interfere with crop growth, but you then have issue getting the power to a grid that would support anything consequential. 

Solar is a bust commercially unless huge rebates or assistance  $$$$$$ by government.

Lastly China makes the only affordable panels unless again the government wishes to commit Hundreds of Billions and increase the national debt yet again. Anyone who lives in the U. S. remembers the Obama administration doing on a smaller scale what is laid out above just to end in his donors that got the sweet deal and took the money and ran, while the companies we chopped up and assets sold in bankruptcy.

Even then what was purchased and sold in bankruptcy was by then old technology.

All the Solar Energy lovers out there, Good Luck!

[Boat + 1,315]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:39 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

I do believe the details are being penciled as we bloviate.

Per Mr. Plant 

There are a number of companies designing and building small modular reactors (SMR's) however these are still very expensive circa $1.2b - $2.5b depending on which manufacturers sales pitch you believe. However because theyre modular they can be scaled up to whatever is required in that area so that makes them attractive to potential buyers.

Also there are a number of companies looking into using SMR's to power large container ships

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002954931930192X#:~:text=The mission of this system is sequenced as,mother ship%2C including the propulsion of the ship.

https://energycentral.com/c/ec/south-korean-team-develop-smr-powered-ships

 

 

They would have built a few of these nuclear units but the 14 billion over cost and 6 year late nuclear units in GA may have given them pause. Let’s face it. Honesty and trust is not really a hallmark of your belief system. Kinda Putin like in that regard. 

[Boat + 1,315]

9 hours ago, RichieRich$ said:

Wow, You are really good with a calculator!

Public spaces or commercial “parking lots” would be liable for personal injuries or be prone to vandalism so that space is out.

The state of Florida just announced that any homeowners with solar on rooftops would be u insurable. You now just lost almost the entire State because what are not homes or commercial are farming.

You won't get farmers that most crops grow at a height of less than 10 inches put panels on farmland. Solar panels may work on the great plains id could be placed high enough not to interfere with crop growth, but you then have issue getting the power to a grid that would support anything consequential. 

Solar is a bust commercially unless huge rebates or assistance  $$$$$$ by government.

Lastly China makes the only affordable panels unless again the government wishes to commit Hundreds of Billions and increase the national debt yet again. Anyone who lives in the U. S. remembers the Obama administration doing on a smaller scale what is laid out above just to end in his donors that got the sweet deal and took the money and ran, while the companies we chopped up and assets sold in bankruptcy.

Even then what was purchased and sold in bankruptcy was by then old technology.

All the Solar Energy lovers out there, Good Luck!

Like the 700+ million for capping oil and gas wells to prevent methane leaks? That kind of sweet deal?

[NickW + 2,714]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:58 PM, RichieRich$ said:

Wow, You are really good with a calculator!

Public spaces or commercial “parking lots” would be liable for personal injuries or be prone to vandalism so that space is out.

The state of Florida just announced that any homeowners with solar on rooftops would be u insurable. You now just lost almost the entire State because what are not homes or commercial are farming.

You won't get farmers that most crops grow at a height of less than 10 inches put panels on farmland. Solar panels may work on the great plains id could be placed high enough not to interfere with crop growth, but you then have issue getting the power to a grid that would support anything consequential. 

Solar is a bust commercially unless huge rebates or assistance  $$$$$$ by government.

Lastly China makes the only affordable panels unless again the government wishes to commit Hundreds of Billions and increase the national debt yet again. Anyone who lives in the U. S. remembers the Obama administration doing on a smaller scale what is laid out above just to end in his donors that got the sweet deal and took the money and ran, while the companies we chopped up and assets sold in bankruptcy.

Even then what was purchased and sold in bankruptcy was by then old technology.

All the Solar Energy lovers out there, Good Luck!

Meanwhile in the real world

Demand goes through the roof (for car park solar)

Why car parks are the hottest space in solar power - BBC News

[RichieRich$ + 65]

While they are being promoted around the world as a crucial weapon in reducing carbon emissions, solar panels only have a lifespan of up to 25 years. 

Experts say billions of panels will eventually all need to be disposed of and replaced. 

"The world has installed more than one terawatt of solar capacity. Ordinary solar panels have a capacity of about 400W, so if you count both rooftops and solar farms, there could be as many as 2.5 billion solar panels.," says Dr Rong Deng, an expert in solar panel recycling at the University of New South Wales in Australia.

According to the British government, there are tens of millions of solar panels in the UK. But the specialist infrastructure to scrap and recycle them is lacking.

Energy experts are calling for urgent government action to prevent a looming global environmental disaster.

 

[RichieRich$ + 65]

22 hours ago, Boat said:

Like the 700+ million for capping oil and gas wells to prevent methane leaks? That kind of sweet deal?

That using Quick Books?

[NickW + 2,714]

17 hours ago, RichieRich$ said:

While they are being promoted around the world as a crucial weapon in reducing carbon emissions, solar panels only have a lifespan of up to 25 years. 

Experts say billions of panels will eventually all need to be disposed of and replaced. 

"The world has installed more than one terawatt of solar capacity. Ordinary solar panels have a capacity of about 400W, so if you count both rooftops and solar farms, there could be as many as 2.5 billion solar panels.," says Dr Rong Deng, an expert in solar panel recycling at the University of New South Wales in Australia.

According to the British government, there are tens of millions of solar panels in the UK. But the specialist infrastructure to scrap and recycle them is lacking.

Energy experts are calling for urgent government action to prevent a looming global environmental disaster.

 

Solar panels last much lower than 25 years. The ones built for the Whitehouse in the 70's under Carter are still functional now. 

On the disposal point there is a reason for that - very few are being scraped at present as the majority built still have decades of life left in them. Much like there wasn't a mobile phone recycling industry in 1985. 

[notsonice + 1,062]

electrek

Here’s how North America’s first utility-scale solar recycling plant is ramping up for the clean energy boom

Michelle Lewis | May 16 2023 - 3:37 pm PT7 Comments

We Recycle Solar is deploying new machinery and technology to quadruple its processing capacity to 522 million pounds per year by 2028.

We Recycle Solar, which is permitted by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to handle hazardous secondary materials that come from solar panels, removes, decommissions, recycles, and processes the panels for reuse.

Founded in August 2019, the company has recycled or remarketed more than 500,000 end-of-life solar panels to date, diverting 23 million pounds of hazardous solar panel waste from landfills. It says its 75,000-square-foot Yuma, Arizona, factory currently has the capacity to process 7,500 modules, or 345,000 pounds, for recycling and reuse in a day and 69 million pounds in a single year.

We Recycle Solar CEO Adam Saghei explains its latest upgrade:

We’ve not only increased processing speed and volume capacity enough to tackle roughly 25% of the current national need for recycling – we’ve also expanded our specialized solar handling teams, resulting in a breakage reduction of up to 30% at the time of decommissioning, which significantly increases the amount of PV panels we’re able to repurpose for the resale market.

The company claims it now has the “highest processing capacity in the nation, with the ability to process panels of every make and model, from any manufacturer, including those that are severely damaged, at a rate of up to 10 panels per minute.”

The EPA reports that “by 2030, the United States is expected to have as much as 1 million total tons of solar panel waste. For comparison, the total generation of US municipal solid waste in 2018 was 292.4 million tons.”