Ontario Canada and Wind Turbine Mistakes

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 hours ago, NickW said:

Sound slike a good place for EV / PHEV's then. More so the PHEV due to climatic conditions.

Here's the problem:  Vermont is a poor, rural State.  Nobody has any money, except the 1%. There are some 317,000 wage earners in the State, and fully 76,000 earn only the minimum wage.  

The median wage in Vermont works out to $14.42/hour.  This is a State with quite high taxes and a rough climate, with big heating bills.  These are not people who can afford a fancy electric car (or hybrid).  Yes, a handful can, but that's it. 

The average Vermonter is buying a fifth-hand used car.  There are guys that go down to Florida, where so many old folks go to die, and buy up the slightly-used Florida cars from the auctions, those being the cars of the dead.  Those old cars are then trucked north to Vermont, for sale.  the big advantage is the absence of road salt exposure, which is what wrecks cars here.  A "new" car for a Vermonter is a 1996 model. 

The locals fix the rust-outs on the doors and rocker panels with two-inch wide duct tape.  It is so common that duct tape is referred to as "Vermont chrome." 

It will take 25 years before EV and PHEV autos are in the pool for these folks to consider buying.  But even then, nobody will have the cash for a fresh battery pack.  I don't see it happening.  The larger purchase of electric bicycles is more probable.  I manufacture those here. 

[NickW + 2,714]

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Sure, Nick, except you don't live here.  

Here's the deal: the Governor controls the Boards and Commissions,  which are the issuers of the Certificates of Need, without which your wind machines are just so much iron in the warehouse.  He approves it or the project goes nowhere.  The Governor has emphatically stated that he will not be permitting any wind machine during his term in office.  Incidentally I support that position. It is a reaction to the grotesque despoliation of the State's most precious resource, its natural beauty, done by despoilers from New York City in search of the big bucks flowing from the 30% tax credit.  Those deals were promoted by his predecessor, who got kicked out of office with a great big boot.  So, as a practical matter, his decree on the issue is "absolute."  And yes, that makes his power on the issue "absolute."  Meanwhile, you are sitting over there in England and take the position that you have a better handle on the realities of Vermont politics.  I would disagree with that assessment.   Trust this explains. 

You said his power is absolute. 

Clearly it is not - there are clearly defined limitations as one would expect in any functioning democracy. 

Those decisions he makes - fair enough but they are open to challenge in courts of law or through by referral to the federal courts. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

5 hours ago, NickW said:

You said his power is absolute. 

Clearly it is not - there are clearly defined limitations as one would expect in any functioning democracy. 

Those decisions he makes - fair enough but they are open to challenge in courts of law or through by referral to the federal courts. 

  At this point I end this exchange. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Jan van Eck
Limiting the exchange dramatically

[NickW + 2,714]

Just now, Jan van Eck said:

Oh, please.  You are being seriously pedantic. 

This is Vermont.  The Governor is seriously well liked.  You don't like it and you are going to go sue him?  In a Vermont Court?  Who do you think is sitting on the jury? 

Those are ideas that are going nowhere.  At this point I end this exchange. 

Completely and utterly irrelevant that he is consider a good old boy in the Fair State of Vermont

Decisions he makes have to follow constitutional processes otherwise he stands the risk of making ultra vires decisions. Legal scrutiny of these decisions are not going to be made by a jury panel of local hicks because they are technical considerations of points of law. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, NickW said:

Completely and utterly irrelevant that he is consider a good old boy in the Fair State of Vermont

Decisions he makes have to follow constitutional processes otherwise he stands the risk of making ultra vires decisions. Legal scrutiny of these decisions are not going to be made by a jury panel of local hicks because they are technical considerations of points of law. 

Sure,Nick.

Now that we have endured your pronouncements, I invite you to move on to oil and gas issues.  Cheers.

[NickW + 2,714]

3 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Sure,Nick.

Now that we have endured your pronouncements, I invite you to move on to oil and gas issues.  Cheers.

I don't see Moderator in your title Jan? 

I seem to recall it was you who introduced the Vermont Governor into one of your many lengthy Tomes😂

Edited October 4, 2018 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

14 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Sure,Nick.

Now that we have endured your pronouncements, I invite you to move on to oil and gas issues.  Cheers.

Back in the real World I took a look at your Governors website and found this:

http://governor.vermont.gov/content/clean-energy-week-proclamation-18-106

Now having made a proclamation like this and to then have a blanket ban on wind turbines is likely to be severely undermined by that same proclamation if challenged in a court of law

BTW - we are in the Renewables section😉

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 hours ago, NickW said:

Back in the real World I took a look at your Governors website and found this:

http://governor.vermont.gov/content/clean-energy-week-proclamation-18-106

Now having made a proclamation like this and to then have a blanket ban on wind turbines is likely to be severely undermined by that same proclamation if challenged in a court of law

BTW - we are in the Renewables section😉

Sure, Nick.  But their ideas of "clean energy" is the building of biomass plants to burn methane from cow manure.  They also consider creating wood pellets from forest product biomass to be "clean energy."  Vermont also now has a big castings plant that casts the parts for cast-iron wood stoves and pellet stoves.  

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Jan van Eck
to limit matters appropriately.

[Rodent + 1,424]

@NickW @Jan van Eck We need to bring the conversation back around to useful dialogue  please. 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

7 minutes ago, Rodent said:

@NickW @Jan van Eck We need to bring the conversation back around to useful dialogue  please. 

 

I should know better.  Anyway, various posts now dramatically edited, per your implied suggestion.