Could EVs Become Cheaper than ICE Cars by 2023?

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 2:08 AM, catch22 said:

The Chinese system is full of  problems - everything from human rights violations, capitol controls, market controls, hell it wasnt even that long ago and you had family controls limiting child births... Its a bit rich writing from a democratic country where we enjoy all the freedoms and fairness our democracy provides us and praise a communist system which sacrifices their environment, civil liberties, and freedoms in favour of censorship, pollution, capitol control and oppression in a myopic desire for economic growth... No way id want to live there...

'The American system is full of  problems - everything from human rights violations, capitol controls, market controls, hell it wasnt even that long ago and you had family controls forcing child births... Its a bit rich writing from an autocratic oligarchic country where we enjoy few of  the freedoms and fairness our oligarchy limits us and praise a communist system which holds dear their environment, civil liberties, and freedoms as opposed to censorship, pollution, capitol control and oppression in a myopic desire for economic growth... No way id want to live there...'

I took the liberty to make the correct edits to better exemplify Trump;s new America.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:25 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Math is hard.

Something is not quite adding up here.

An absolutely amazing trick,that very few Americans can figure out. It absolutely amazes them. Totally baffles their minds. They are mystified by it.

There is something absolutely unique about the year '2018', that is unlike any other year, ever.

Take the year that you were born.in. All four digits.

If you have not had your birthday yet this year, add one to the date.

Add your current age to it.

In every case, it will add up to 2018. 

Amazing, isn't it?

It will only happen this year. It has never happened before, and will never happen again. Any other year, it will not add up to 2018. Try it.

The magic of math,

Perhaps you should not have slept through math class, after all.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 2:08 AM, catch22 said:

 So everyone drives home from work and then not only plugs in the car to charge but also starts cooking, turning on their air conditioning and other applicances etc... there will be a massive energy demand spike and the grid- at least here in australia - will not be able to cope with so much extra load placed on the grid by everyones EV charging ON TOP OF the existing loads. Our electricity grid is already at full capacity generation and transmission.

Interesting. You are from Australia, huh?

Australia invited Musk to demonstrate his claim about building the world's largest battery plant in 100 days, and he did it. Australia will be one of the first countries to demonstrate the use of home battery packs to slowly charge home battery storage packs during off-peak hours, and then deliver the electricity in a surge as needed.

Australia already uses a 230/415V transmission system, and is perfectly suited for upgrading to a high voltage DC transmission mesh system. They know they have to upgrade, and they are in the perfect position to do so. They would be building new, not replacing.

Australia is one of the leading countries for electrification, and renewal of their electrical infrastructure, based in a big part on solar. Australia has the sunshine, the optimal equatorial exposure, and the naturally clear land that is optimal for solar energy, more so than almost every other country. If they could export electricity to China, they would. (And this is not so far fetched, with the rapid development of fuel cell and battery storage technology.) Because of their lack of easily environmentally-friendly oil reserves, and almost total dependence on imported oil, Australia is a prime candidate for EVs as opposed to ICEs.

But, of course, as an electrician in Australia, you would already know all of this.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 4:31 AM, Dan Warnick said:

The vast majority of Americans are good, civil, helpful, caring, giving honest people who are proud of their nation and their communities, and who feel compassion for others who do not have it or cannot participate in it.  But there is a subtle distinction in what I just wrote: that is that we care about our own first, and then we look outward.  There is also a subtle meaning to what I've just said there:  "and then we look outward".  No other nation on earth looks outward as generously as Americans do. 

Did I mention that the rest of the world predominantly considers America to be a very narcissistic nation. who's residents are, frankly, just so full of themselves?

And that goes precisely to the heart of the current issue.

Americans feel that they have the God-given RIGHT to be the greatest nation on earth, and thus have subsequently stopped doing what is necessary to actually BE a great nation. 'GOD will make us great, we don't need to do anything ourselves.' Research, development, education, implementation of newer technologies, upgrading their manufacturing and their infrastructure, looking to the future instead of hanging on to the past. They are doing none of this, Their educational and literacy levels are actually falling, instead of going up. They EXPECT to be great, without actually DOING anything. They are falling behind, have been since they gave up the moon program and sunk their money into developing better weaponry for the military oppression of Vietnam. America has been demoralized ever since, and has gone into a complete funk. The only thing America has given the world, is more effective ways to kill more and more people using increasingly more capable weapons of mass destruction. Every body bag that comes back, just compounds the problem. It will take more than flag waving to save America, more than 'thoughts and prayers', It will take the complete revamping of America's moral fabric, America just isn't a happy, proud nation any more. America has replaced true, selfless, humble pride with false pride and flag waving. Americans, like trump, demand world loyalty instead of earning it.

And worse still, they refuse to take any advice or mentoring from the rest of the world. 'How DARE the rest of the world even INFER that America could do better!!!!', They blindly accept the propaganda coming from the extremes of their two political ideologies (two sides of the same coin), and are buried in the belief that 'things will be better, if only the other side...' And they will never blame themselves, they will never look to themselves as being at fault.

Trump is not the problem, he is the symptom. His agenda is not unique to him, but is supported by half of America.

The answer to these questions will never be found in American centric polarized and self-destructive adversarial baffledegab, but from the developments made by modern, progressive countries. America is no longer the solution, America is the problem, and everyone else in the world recognizes this except the Americans. Until Americans stop battling each other, and start co-operating and unifying the nation, they are just spinning their wheels, huffing and puffing, trying to blow down a brick house that the rest of the world is now living in. Zero sum no compromise 'I win you lose' negotiating, when the rest of the world is using win-win 'no lose' negotiating among themselves.

While the rest of the world is going EVs and off oil, Americans are dogmatically stuck back in the carbon age, espousing all of the rationalizations and confirmation biases made to look like solid reasons why they are right, and everyone else is wrong. But Ford America and GM, wrapped in their ICE's, are now almost junk bond status, while China-owned Ford is prospering and expanding.

If you believe the issue will be answered in the bankruptcy courts instead of the stock market, it is well on the way to being decided.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:43 AM, Guillaume Albasini said:

I've found a thesis on the EV and fast chargers integration in Norway. Perhaps some of you could find it interesting. Here is the abstract and the link.

Abstract

 Injecting reactive power at the location of an installed fast

charger proved to significantly reduce the voltage deviation otherwise imposed by

the charger.

 

I definitely have to read the entire article, but I fail to see how injecting reactive power into the system would be in any way effective. Reactive power is, if they and I are talking about the same thing, essentially, 'powerless' power. It is not usually profitable, and the idea is to minimize it. Traditional power meters do not measure it, in order to bill for it, and thus it is usually added as a surcharge to factories that are major culprits in 'producing' it (usually, very large industrial motors). I will read the article, but perhaps they are somehow talking about 'recapturing' reactive power losses, whatever that means.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/12/2018 at 1:18 PM, Dan Warnick said:

Indeed - water works in this fashion.

Yes, it is called 'drowning'.

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:03 AM, NickW said:

More recent research (research that isn't older than most participants on this forum) suggests otherwise

I claim ageism!!!

I was in University when that study came out!!!!h

[Justin Thyme + 24]

On 11/14/2018 at 6:23 PM, markslawson said:

JH - sorry but no.. the violent weather link is still highly disputed. This from the 2014 IPCC report.. it ssays there is a sort-of link 

Let me think about this one. 2014. Wasn't that BEFORE the most expensive hurricanes in US history except Katrina hit the mainland? Repeatedly? And twice in one year? So much for the idea that their frequency and intensity will DECREASE.

[catch22 + 244]

3 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

'The American system is full of  problems - everything from human rights violations, capitol controls, market controls, hell it wasnt even that long ago and you had family controls forcing child births... Its a bit rich writing from an autocratic oligarchic country where we enjoy few of  the freedoms and fairness our oligarchy limits us and praise a communist system which holds dear their environment, civil liberties, and freedoms as opposed to censorship, pollution, capitol control and oppression in a myopic desire for economic growth... No way id want to live there...'

I took the liberty to make the correct edits to better exemplify Trump;s new America.

Why do you assume the rest of the forum members are referring to trumps and or america? I am not an american, and none of what i wrote had anything to do with America?

I am australian- and you a canadian- however we all live in an essentially freedom enjoying country with a very high standard of living. If you beleive the china system is so wonderful- you are free to move there and breathe up the pollution from their overpopultaed mess. The smog and environmental catasphrophe that is in progress there is a product of their expansion above all else communnist policies.

And they are totally hypocritical on trade - they dont want tarrifs but instead free trade- yet their markets are very closed to foreign access. For example- mastercard and visa wanted access to the financial markets there- however the china state forbidden their access to it instead only allowing their state owned finance  entities an  exclusive monopoly on that huge market. They do many things like this and cry poor about free markets... pfft. Thier internet is sensored, media is sensored- why? Because the communist powers dont want a billion people to know the truth- why else would you restruct peoples access to information!

[catch22 + 244]

6 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

'The American system is full of  problems - everything from human rights violations, capitol controls, market controls, hell it wasnt even that long ago and you had family controls forcing child births... Its a bit rich writing from an autocratic oligarchic country where we enjoy few of  the freedoms and fairness our oligarchy limits us and praise a communist system which holds dear their environment, civil liberties, and freedoms as opposed to censorship, pollution, capitol control and oppression in a myopic desire for economic growth... No way id want to live there...'

I took the liberty to make the correct edits to better exemplify Trump;s new America.

You are really clutching at straws here... i have no idea how you can infer that the american system (why bring that up again?) FORCED child births??? WTF?

And then call it autocratic and oligarchic??? I mean come on - we are not just referring to America here.  Britain, Canada, USA, the EU nations etc, the list goes on, i suppose you think all these democracies are autocratic and oligarchic??? You are blurring the lines of what is being discussed here - are we talking about trumps ideals or the rest of the free world? Because it is the latter to which which i refer - i am not a trump fan and i doubt he will last the thru the next election. Trump is not the "american system" either - he is simply the incumbent figure head of the day.

The reason he was elected was there was a increasing negative sentiment towards the management of the country and the voters were sick of the typical politicians of the day. They didnt beleive any of the usual suspects would make a difference. They wanted something new and something different to make a difference- so they elected someone with zero political history or experience! There are underlying reasons why people were unhappy - manufacturing jobs and industries in the US were evaporating faster than the water in the Mojave desert - the economy was stagnant and nothing was being done to save it. Voters facing job losses or other types of economic loss- wanted change. At least they have the right to vote and effect a change - Good luck with that in china!!!

 

 

 

[DA? + 301]

7 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

Just because you are 'fully qualified' does not mean that you know what you are doing. 

I've also qualified as an electrician, the qualification is just a bit of paper that frankly wasn't hard to get. Didn't teach me much really.  

[catch22 + 244]

4 minutes ago, DA? said:

I've also qualified as an electrician, the qualification is just a bit of paper that frankly wasn't hard to get. Didn't teach me much really.  

Just another keyboard warrior... just because you can post on an internet forum doesnt mean you know what you are typing either 🤣

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

Did I mention that the rest of the world predominantly considers America to be a very narcissistic nation. who's residents are, frankly, just so full of themselves?

And that goes precisely to the heart of the current issue.

Americans feel that they have the God-given RIGHT to be the greatest nation on earth, and thus have subsequently stopped doing what is necessary to actually BE a great nation. 'GOD will make us great, we don't need to do anything ourselves.' Research, development, education, implementation of newer technologies, upgrading their manufacturing and their infrastructure, looking to the future instead of hanging on to the past. They are doing none of this, Their educational and literacy levels are actually falling, instead of going up. They EXPECT to be great, without actually DOING anything. They are falling behind, have been since they gave up the moon program and sunk their money into developing better weaponry for the military oppression of Vietnam. America has been demoralized ever since, and has gone into a complete funk. The only thing America has given the world, is more effective ways to kill more and more people using increasingly more capable weapons of mass destruction. Every body bag that comes back, just compounds the problem. It will take more than flag waving to save America, more than 'thoughts and prayers', It will take the complete revamping of America's moral fabric, America just isn't a happy, proud nation any more. America has replaced true, selfless, humble pride with false pride and flag waving. Americans, like trump, demand world loyalty instead of earning it.

And worse still, they refuse to take any advice or mentoring from the rest of the world. 'How DARE the rest of the world even INFER that America could do better!!!!', They blindly accept the propaganda coming from the extremes of their two political ideologies (two sides of the same coin), and are buried in the belief that 'things will be better, if only the other side...' And they will never blame themselves, they will never look to themselves as being at fault.

Trump is not the problem, he is the symptom. His agenda is not unique to him, but is supported by half of America.

The answer to these questions will never be found in American centric polarized and self-destructive adversarial baffledegab, but from the developments made by modern, progressive countries. America is no longer the solution, America is the problem, and everyone else in the world recognizes this except the Americans. Until Americans stop battling each other, and start co-operating and unifying the nation, they are just spinning their wheels, huffing and puffing, trying to blow down a brick house that the rest of the world is now living in. Zero sum no compromise 'I win you lose' negotiating, when the rest of the world is using win-win 'no lose' negotiating among themselves.

While the rest of the world is going EVs and off oil, Americans are dogmatically stuck back in the carbon age, espousing all of the rationalizations and confirmation biases made to look like solid reasons why they are right, and everyone else is wrong. But Ford America and GM, wrapped in their ICE's, are now almost junk bond status, while China-owned Ford is prospering and expanding.

If you believe the issue will be answered in the bankruptcy courts instead of the stock market, it is well on the way to being decided.

There you go again.  Feel better?  Go live for a month in Illinois and give the folks there a chance to show you that they do not fit the story that ANY major newspaper or "News" program in the United States prints or broadcasts.  I would never deem to write off the whole of Canada and the Canadian people the way you have done here, and yet there you go again.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

Yes, it is called 'drowning'.

Yes, and in your case, an example would be of drowning in your media fueled perception of the world and its people.

[DA? + 301]

1 hour ago, catch22 said:

Just another keyboard warrior... just because you can post on an internet forum doesnt mean you know what you are typing either 🤣

Touching a nerve maybe? But neither does it mean you know what you are on about either. Time will tell.

[Refman + 207]

This thread really went off the rails.....

[DA? + 301]

22 minutes ago, Refman said:

This thread really went off the rails.....

Like a train pulling a load of propane.

[markslawson + 1,042]

19 hours ago, Justin Thyme said:

Let me think about this one. 2014. Wasn't that BEFORE the most expensive hurricanes in US history except Katrina hit the mainland? Repeatedly? And twice in one year? So much for the idea that their frequency and intensity will DECREASE.

JT - sorry, again no. The 2014 report is still the consensus. Activists have found links but scientists still have difficultly finding a statistical correlation. Go and check the Wikipedia list of hurricanes that hit the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_hurricanes

You will note that none at all hit the US between 2005 and 2016 - a long period to be without storms. There are always major variations in these things.  As for the "most expensive" part - inflation, an increase in settlement along coastal regions and increasing coastal construction would all account for that. Leave it with you.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Tesla has winter weather problems per a Tesla fan. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-18/winter-has-barely-started-tesla-model-3-cold-weather-complaints-are-pouring

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 hours ago, Refman said:

This thread really went off the rails.....

 

[DA? + 301]

7 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

The perfect train, electric and everyone gets a window seat.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

11 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Tesla has winter weather problems per a Tesla fan. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-18/winter-has-barely-started-tesla-model-3-cold-weather-complaints-are-pouring

Nothing a little squirt of WD-40 wouldn't fix.  Oops, petroleum!  Anyway, in reality these are small issues that will be fixed.  Tesla will do so and move on.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

40 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Nothing a little squirt of WD-40 wouldn't fix.  Oops, petroleum!  Anyway, in reality these are small issues that will be fixed.  Tesla will do so and move on.

Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on a Highway | WIRED

[Rodent + 1,424]

Excuse me while I try to hide my disinterested look. What is going on with this thread??!!!

[Janet Alderton + 124]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:54 PM, DA? said:

The costs are huge and ask Miami about building a nice sea wall to protect it. Ask California if building codes were tight enough to stop fires. Wasn't there a report the other day showing some city got more hammered due to poor design for dealing with flood waters. It's costing the government to subsidise the wealthy on the coast as insurance companies won't touch many of these properties. It's going to well.

Large areas of Florida are built on porous rock where a sea wall will not help.