Is California becoming a National Security Risk to the U.S.?

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On 11/15/2018 at 2:44 AM, DA? said:

Don't be silly. One of the largest national risks to the USA is the fossil fuel industry, when peak demand comes it's going to hurt the country bad. California has the sense to move with the times, not try and hide in the 20th century. The USA has stagnated and needs to follow California's leadership, not the other national risk to the USA of tRump 

please enlighten us as to your factual evidence of your national risk of the fossil fuel industry.

Not a phony fudged "climate armageddon" study but real actual evidence with clear concise

examples and references that are irrefutable.

 

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On 11/15/2018 at 5:13 PM, Guillaume Albasini said:

California is just heading the same direction as the rest of the world. The real craziness is the direction the rest of the US is heading.

By the "rest of the world" you are referring to those countries run by the leftist elites?

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 Completely out of control! And yes it is absolutely a RISK. 

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On 11/14/2018 at 10:59 AM, Ronald Stein said:

The policies and decisions made in California, the 5th largest economy in the world, may be putting the U.S. at a national security risk. The imported crude oil into California is required to support the states usage of 60 million gallons of fuel every day for its 145 airports, 35 million registered, and 15 ports that handle $50 billion of imported and exported goods every month. Unlike the rest of the USA which is now a net exporter of oil, California’s in-state oil production, and Alaskan oil imports are both in-decline to meet the States’ energy needs, resulting in more than 56% of the States’ crude oil needs being imported from oil rich foreign countries.  http://www.cfact.org/2018/11/13/is-california-becoming-a-national-security-risk/

 

Is California becoming a U.S. National Security Risk.pdf

Don't be silly. California refineries can get oil from Canada. Get rid of Trump and the U.S.A. and Canada can return to being good neighbors. Eventually we will embrace the circular economy. See the attached Plastic to Energy article.

Plastic to Energy.docx

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7 minutes ago, Janet Alderton said:

Don't be silly. California refineries can get oil from Canada. Get rid of Trump and the U.S.A. and Canada can return to being good neighbors. 

California has laws regulating it's carbon intensity of the oil brought in. I'm sure Alberta oil is...er...carbon intensive. 

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(edited)

The oil produced in California is largely heavy oil -just marginally less carbon-intensive than Alberta's oil sands crude. As the carbon-intensity regulations tighten, refineries that refine carbon-intensive heavy crudes will buy more carbon-intensity credits from producers of diesel made from renewable sources or blend diesel made from renewable sources with more carbon-intensive oil. Or steam produced with renewable energy can be injected to release the heavy oil. This would lower the carbon intensity. Alberta can move in this direction, too.

The Trans Mountain Pipeline terminates at Burnaby, B.C. After this pipeline is twinned, most of the additional oil sands crude will end up in California -not Asia. The restricted marine passages that lead to the Strait of Georgia limit the maximum size of oil tankers to Afromax and these can only be filled to 80% capacity. These smaller oil tankers cannot complete with the ultra-large tankers on the long-haul routes to Asia. 

Why Does Green California Pump the Dirtiest Oil in the U.S.? - Yale E360.pdf

Edited by Janet Alderton
poor sentence structure

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3 hours ago, Janet Alderton said:

Don't be silly. California refineries can get oil from Canada. Get rid of Trump and the U.S.A. and Canada can return to being good neighbors. Eventually we will embrace the circular economy. See the attached Plastic to Energy article.

Plastic to Energy.docx

California has no access to Alberta crude oil due to no pipelines over the Sierra Mountains. Just like the excess oil in the Midwest, California has no access to that oil. Further, Canada's First Nations have prevented Canadian pipelines to the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of Canada which would have given California access to that crude oil.  To support the military, cruise liners, airports, supertankers, and cargo ships, and other transportation, California must import crude from foreign countries as the California peoples choice is to not drill for any oil in the largest oil reserve in the USA, located on CA soil.

 

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50 minutes ago, Ronald Stein said:

California has no access to Alberta crude oil due to no pipelines over the Sierra Mountains. Just like the excess oil in the Midwest, California has no access to that oil. Further, Canada's First Nations have prevented Canadian pipelines to the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of Canada which would have given California access to that crude oil.  To support the military, cruise liners, airports, supertankers, and cargo ships, and other transportation, California must import crude from foreign countries as the California peoples choice is to not drill for any oil in the largest oil reserve in the USA, located on CA soil.

 

Now @Ronald Stein, let's not let facts get in the way of fantasy!

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Yes!!! Being all illegals coming across the border into California with all our solid state chip being product out with in Silicon Valley!!! It's where all the development of what they call super are being designs well!!!

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13 minutes ago, James Klein said:

Yes!!! Being all illegals coming across the border into California with all our solid state chip being product out with in Silicon Valley!!! It's where all the development of what they call super are being designs well!!!

@Tom Kirkman I think James is speaking a language you are familiar with?

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6 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

By the "rest of the world" you are referring to those countries run by the leftist elites?

The US was  the only country to withdraw from the Paris Agreement.

The US was the only country to withdraw from the Iran Nuclear Deal.

And we can add many other examples where the US is taking a lonesome stance in opposition of the rest of the world.

 

So it's not the US against the countries run by leftist elites but really the US against the rest of the world. Unless you believe that all the 195 other UN member States are run by leftist elites....

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, David Eidell said:

California leadership is liberalism totally out of control

They got the debt level to stop rising.

8 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

sorry, but the use of fossil fuels is a reality, a necessary reality. no silly comments about the 20th century or arrogant "move on or move over" comments will change the laws of physics regardless of your zealousness.

Perhaps in decades there will be substantial breakthroughs that slowly begin to change this, but demonizing people will certainly not do it. 

 

Yes I agree as I have said in the past fossil fuels is a reality they have allowed us to get where we are today. No need to change the laws of physics, no need for substantial breakthroughs (although the tech is rapidly moving) for renewables are for many markets the economically best choice today. Have you seen how much of the newly installed generation is renewables now? Yes that way it'd take along time to change over. Thing is price of renewables are still dropping fast, we are at a point were it's the best economic choice to close fossil fuel generators and install new renewables. If people are standing in the way of a more sustainable and health world for my son then they should be demonized as that to me is evil.

 

8 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

please enlighten us as to your factual evidence of your national risk of the fossil fuel industry.

Not a phony fudged "climate armageddon" study but real actual evidence with clear concise

examples and references that are irrefutable.

 

Do your home work for yourself. Hell even the USA armed forces are going for renewables for security reasons. If you think climate change is a phony fudge then you are on the same level as a flat earther to me.

 

3 hours ago, Ronald Stein said:

Canada's First Nations have prevented Canadian pipeline

Maybe because they don't want those pipes leaking the stuff all over the place, which they do.

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If they continue down the road to no deforestation or any cleanup of the millions of acres burned with chemicals they will soon have a fire in California that will never be contained.  They will learn a lesson where they'll be paying over $5.00 a gallon for gas since they will never issue permits for drilling or refining.  The state of NIMBY will be a state of the elite only since no one else will be able to afford to live there, except the homeless and illegal immigrants.  A National Security threat? Close,  but in the future, going down the road they've chosen, definitely - yes.

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If they close the ports and the movie companies move to Texas, for example, what's left?

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58 minutes ago, Jo Mack said:

If they continue down the road to no deforestation or any cleanup of the millions of acres burned with chemicals they will soon have a fire in California that will never be contained.  They will learn a lesson where they'll be paying over $5.00 a gallon for gas since they will never issue permits for drilling or refining.  The state of NIMBY will be a state of the elite only since no one else will be able to afford to live there, except the homeless and illegal immigrants.  A National Security threat? Close,  but in the future, going down the road they've chosen, definitely - yes.

Err, not sure what you are getting at with the "deforestation" bit and stuff. Oh they will love $5 a gallon as they are heading for our electric future. I'd look a little closer to the mid east coast to find the biggest security threat to the USA and the level of debt, which the present governor of California has done a relatively good job of. 

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(edited)

18 hours ago, Ronald Stein said:

California has no access to Alberta crude oil due to no pipelines over the Sierra Mountains. Just like the excess oil in the Midwest, California has no access to that oil. Further, Canada's First Nations have prevented Canadian pipelines to the Atlantic and Pacific coasts of Canada which would have given California access to that crude oil.  To support the military, cruise liners, airports, supertankers, and cargo ships, and other transportation, California must import crude from foreign countries as the California peoples choice is to not drill for any oil in the largest oil reserve in the USA, located on CA soil.

 

Ronald Stein,

There are no pipelines over the Sierra Nevada Mountains, but Albertan crude is arriving in California via tankers from Burnaby. The attached article states, 

"But recent shipping data suggests demand from California for Canadian crude is rising, and experts say that state could end up taking up to half of the new export capacity from an expanded Trans Mountain.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has tried to sell the pipeline to a divided public as a crucial link to Asia, amid domestic concerns over the mounting trade tussle with the United States.

Just days after Trudeau’s government agreed to buy the project, an Aframax tanker carrying more than 500,000 barrels of heavy crude left Kinder Morgan’s Westridge Marine Terminal and traveled to Long Beach, California, one of eight shipments to California in May.

 

Canadian crude exports from Westridge topped 2.5 million barrels that month, with every last drop shipped to California refineries, according to Reuters Eikon data. So far this year, 72.8 percent of Westridge crude exports have gone to California."

Canada dreams of oil exports to Asia, but California beckons | Reuters.pdf

Edited by Janet Alderton
spelling error
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3 minutes ago, mthebold said:

The whole point of the US is to not be caught in entangling alliances.  There is no "US against the rest of the world"; only "The US minding its own business".  Y'all can do whatever you want; leave us out of it. 

^ ding ding ding ding    we have a winner here!

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7 minutes ago, mthebold said:

I suspect that CA's policies are designed to drive out the middle class. The end result will be a minority of rich people, plenty of poor immigrants to do their cooking & cleaning, and a political elite that stays comfortably in power. 

Again, spot on.  Similar to what I see being attempted in the EU.

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On 11/15/2018 at 4:04 PM, DA? said:

relevant in what way? Have you seen the facts of it's sale figures in the USA? Seen the financials of the company? Seen the products they make and the demand for them? Those are the stubborn facts about Tesla, it's doing great unlike most other car manufactures (although cars are only part of what Tesla does). Don't mix up FUD and facts.

I'm just curious; you seem to have a rigid mind on the issues.  I am left with the impression that your thinking is shaped by your local experiences. Could you tell us where you live?

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The OP tells us that California "unlike the rest of the USA which is now a net exporter of oil" hahahahahaha

Lost all credibility there mate. 

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4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

I'm just curious; you seem to have a rigid mind on the issues.  I am left with the impression that your thinking is shaped by your local experiences. Could you tell us where you live?

Specify which issues, if you mean a more sustainable more environmentally friendly world then yes my mind set is rigid on this. Not that's it's really much of your business but I have lived and worked in North America, Europe, Middle East, Africa and Australia. My experiences are quite broad thank you. The box doesn't quite fit me.

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5 hours ago, mthebold said:

So yes, California is going to lose most of Tesla.

See the new factory they are building in California?

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(edited)

6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Again, spot on.  Similar to what I see being attempted in the EU.

You realize that the middle class is much larger in Europe, where the difference between the rich and the poor is much smaller. 

Every time I visit the US I am shocked by the sheer number of homeless people 

Edited by Marco Kobelt

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6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Again, spot on.  Similar to what I see being attempted in the EU.

You realize that the middle class is much larger in Europe, where the difference between the rich and the poor is much smaller. 

Every time I visit the US I am shocked by the sheer number of homeless people 

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