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Why Trump will win the wall fight

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20 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is truly a tragedy that we continue to financially support schools, colleges and universities that promote socialism, LGBT extremism, ignoring the Constitution of the USA , persecute Christian groups while Christians founded many of the guilty universities. 

Universities have long been places where free thought and speech are allowed.  Restricting funding because they don't fit your religious model is so backwards.  A long time ago scientists were jailed or killed as heretics for proclaiming things like the earth isn't the center of the universe and instead revolves around the sun.  Shall we stop teaching evolution (or did the south even get around to that yet 😂)?

One of you must be a flat earther - just admit it! #alternativefacts

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4 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Universities have long been places where free thought and speech are allowed.  Restricting funding because they don't fit your religious model is so backwards.  A long time ago scientists were jailed or killed as heretics for proclaiming things like the earth isn't the center of the universe and instead revolves around the sun.  Shall we stop teaching evolution (or did the south even get around to that yet 😂)?

One of you must be a flat earther - just admit it! #alternativefacts

Except that the roles have reversed.  Now it’s progressive liberal ideology choking out dissent in thought. It’s created kids who need safe spaces because someone believes or said something they don’t agree with.  The thought police see to it that guest speakers are protested until banned or uninvited to speak at universities.  Again, because their views dissent from what the delicate ears of regressive liberals want to hear.  40 years later the social experimentation and takeover of educatuon hatched out in the Port Huron Statement, which is basically the manifesto that articulated the plan to get there, is in full swing.  

Universities WERE a place where free thought and speech were allowed.  They aren’t now.  Now they are indoctrination centers where parents waste money sending their kids off to be programmed by wacky, untouchable, tenured professors.  Instead of receiving the classical education they need.  Talk about echo chambers.

Ad hominem attacks attempting to reduce people from the south as somehow backward and uninformed because we don’t agree is a perfect example of the result of the indoctrination our kids are receiving.  Classical education teaches debate and decorum, especially with those we don’t agree.  That’s what we need.

 

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24 minutes ago, TXPower said:

Except that the roles have reversed.  Now it’s progressive liberal ideology choking out dissent in thought. It’s created kids who need safe spaces because someone believes or said something they don’t agree with.  The thought police see to it that guest speakers are protested until banned or uninvited to speak at universities.  Again, because their views dissent from what the delicate ears of regressive liberals want to hear.  40 years later the social experimentation and takeover of educatuon hatched out in the Port Huron Statement, which is basically the manifesto that articulated the plan to get there, is in full swing.  

Universities WERE a place where free thought and speech were allowed.  They aren’t now.  Now they are indoctrination centers where parents waste money sending their kids off to be programmed by wacky, untouchable, tenured professors.  Instead of receiving the classical education they need.  Talk about echo chambers.

Ad hominem attacks attempting to reduce people from the south as somehow backward and uninformed because we don’t agree is a perfect example of the result of the indoctrination our kids are receiving.  Classical education teaches debate and decorum, especially with those we don’t agree.  That’s what we need.

 

I attended university less than 20 years ago, there was still plenty of free speech and many of those untouchable tenured professors are not particularly liberal.

In fairness I was in the faculty of science; I don't doubt the humanities and arts are far more liberal. I took a philosophy course for required arts credits and the professor was clearly a communist from the assigned reading.

Do you believe in evolution? 

Edited by Enthalpic

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58 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I attended university less than 20 years ago, there was still plenty of free speech and many of those untouchable tenured professors are not particularly liberal.

In fairness I was in the faculty of science; I don't doubt the humanities and arts are far more liberal. I took a philosophy course for required arts credits and the professor was clearly a communist from the assigned reading.

Do you believe in evolution? 

Our universities have been changing, moving further and further left of center for 40 years as stated.  Exponentially so in the last 15.  I saw it when I was in college the first time and when I went back years later it was even more apparent and so much more today.

I used to think the disciplines in the hard sciences would hold out and reject regressive ideology.  Perhaps they did for a while, that would account for some of your own experience expressed here in this thread.  But now even the science faculties have gone bonkers on many campuses across the country.  Not doing so brings real trouble for them.

I believe in devolution, it’s clearly demonstrated on our college campuses everyday.

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52 minutes ago, mthebold said:

I suspect that will be impossible until we completely replace educators.  They form a homogeneous culture of socialists and are themselves incapable of critical thinking. 

So you don't want to promote free speech and remove educational indoctrination - you just want to replace the indoctrination with one that aligns with your beliefs.  Suggesting that everyone who disagrees should be removed is dictator level crap.

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On 2/17/2019 at 10:35 AM, TXPower said:

What we need is to once again engage classical education of our children in school where they learn to think logically, to debate, to explore and above all, leave our schools with a strong understanding of our nations founding principles, the beliefs contributions and warnings of our founders and reverence for the limiting power our constitution has placed on our three branches of government.  Only then will respect for the rule of law and separation of powers become relevant again.  

We have spent the last 40 years treating our primary and secondary schools as a damn social indoctrination experiment, encouraging students to feel their way through life instead of providing classical education which leads to real enlightenment.  The chickens have come home to roost.

So like when slavery was cool and women didn't have the vote?

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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

So like when slavery was cool and women didn't have the vote?

Abolishment of slavery and the franchisement for women were the type of progressive initiates this country needed.  The tripe pushed today is sillyness.

Is that the best you can do is point to national sins from over 100 years ago.  That’s classic regressive liberal behavior, point to bad behavior to try and bolster your argument or justify bad behavior.

I never deny we haven’t got it right all the time.  But we’ve gotten it right a lot of the time.  No need for national self loathing. Did it occur to you that much of the rest of the world also didn’t allow women to vote until between 1890-1920?  And many more didn’t outlaw slavery until well into the 1800’s.  Hell, slavery is still going on in some countries.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

So you don't want to promote free speech and remove educational indoctrination - you just want to replace the indoctrination with one that aligns with your beliefs.  Suggesting that everyone who disagrees should be removed is dictator level crap.

Your obstinance is a waste of my time.  You seem to be the one throwing around the "dictator" word to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

I would put you on my "ignored users" list, but for some reason, that forum function stopped working a month or so ago.

 

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President Trump might win the battle but lose the war because America is heavily dependent on illegal immigrant labor to do the work that born Americans would not do at reduced cost.(especially Caucasian people) Secondly these immigrants apart from sending money home to their families tend to buy manufactured goods of all descriptions and ship them as well south of the border. All America needs to do is find a way of maybe documenting and taxing these individuals. However no state close to the border can survive without them. If they are blocked it could cost billions of dollars of loses to the American economy more than the proposed cost for the wall.

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36 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

I would put you on my "ignored users" list.

Head-in-the-sand is your type.  I could make a meme... but I prefer to use words like intellectuals have done forever.

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16 minutes ago, Gerard Remy said:

President Trump might win the battle but lose the war because America is heavily dependent on illegal immigrant labor to do the work that born Americans would not do at reduced cost.(especially Caucasian people) Secondly these immigrants apart from sending money home to their families tend to buy manufactured goods of all descriptions and ship them as well south of the border. All America needs to do is find a way of maybe documenting and taxing these individuals. However no state close to the border can survive without them. If they are blocked it could cost billions of dollars of loses to the American economy more than the proposed cost for the wall.

That’s an oversimplification of a complex issue.  Born Americans won’t do the labor jobs that illegals will at the current price illegals will.  The price of this labor didn’t drop overnight.  It took years and millions of illegals arriving to lower the labor wages to where second and third and generations beyond wouldn’t work for the lower wages.

Removing the readily available illegal cheap labor from the equation would increase the cost of the remaining legal labor.  Yes, it would be painful as the price of goods and services increase.  But, eventually we would see born Americans returning to the labor job market.  This would provide some upward mobility as well for the person flipping burgers for minimum wage who could learn concrete work or to frame houses at a higher wage as an example.

As for moving the illegals from the informal economy to the formal economy that can be done.  Tax all wages wired or otherwise electronically transferred from the US to Mexico, Central and South America at 35% of the wired value and put it in the US Treasury.  I suspect that would be quite a sum.

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Just now, Enthalpic said:

Head-in-the-sand is your type.  I could make a meme... but I prefer to use words like intellectuals have done forever.

News flash, if Jim Acosta from CNN posted here, I would filter him, as his verbal distortions are a waste of my time.

That's not "head in the sand" that is just not wasting my time.

@CMOP please fix the "ignored users" function on this forum. I've used a similar function on LinkedIn to stop receiving persistent, unwanted sales pitches for "weath management" and multi-level marketing messages and other such nonsense from other LinkedIn members.  Waste of my time.

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I love this forum. 

The one where its fine to call me "all that is wrong with mankind"; "libtard"; "[incapable] of reading comprehension" - awesome.

If I suggest any alternative views it's block user.

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Perhaps consider that if the university intellectuals think you are wrong, it is because you are wrong.

If the schools have become more liberal over time that is because your children - OK maybe not some of your children who fail to gain acceptance due to low grades - are attending and have adopted more progressive views than yourselves. 

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(edited)

27 minutes ago, TXPower said:

 This would provide some upward mobility as well for the person flipping burgers for minimum wage who could learn concrete work or to frame houses at a higher wage as an example.

 

What exactly is preventing this learning right now?  The educational system?

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55 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

please fix the "ignored users" function on this forum.

Maybe it's not broken - it's just that "Moderators" can't / shouldn't ignore users.  It is a feature not a bug.

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43 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

What exactly is preventing this learning right now?  The educational system?

No, the fact that cheap laborers from our neighbors south are willing to do the jobs for significantly less, live 10 men to a house to pool their resources lowering their living cost here to probably 25% of what they make, maybe less, while wiring the rest to their home countries.  Tax free.  This all adds up to a less than liveable wage for citizens who might otherwise do those labor jobs.

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(edited)

10 minutes ago, TXPower said:

No, the fact that cheap laborers from our neighbors south are willing to do the jobs for significantly less

OK, you used the word "learn" - implying the need for more education. 

It sounds like there is a surplus of people with sufficient training... 

Increased minimum wage standards might make those highly trained Americans be willing to do those jobs.  Instead the companies are free to pay crap and the cheap - but skilled - labor moves in.

Edited by Enthalpic

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5 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

OK, you used the word "learn" - implying the need for more education. 

It sounds like there is a surplus of people with sufficient training... 

Increased minimum wage standards might make those highly trained Americans be willing to do those jobs.  Instead the companies are free to pay crap and the cheap - but skilled - labor moves in.

No the cheap illegal laborers arrive with little to no real skills but possess a strong willingness to work.  They learn their skills here OTJ.  The wages they earn here are WAY more than they can earn back home.  

American Citizens could and would do the same if it yielded a living wage in the context of cost of living here. Very simple supply, demand and their correlation to wages.  

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7 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

News flash, if Jim Acosta from CNN posted here, I would filter him, as his verbal distortions are a waste of my time.

That's not "head in the sand" that is just not wasting my time.

@CMOP please fix the "ignored users" function on this forum. I've used a similar function on LinkedIn to stop receiving persistent, unwanted sales pitches for "weath management" and multi-level marketing messages and other such nonsense from other LinkedIn members.  Waste of my time.

Still works for me, Tom.  Cleaned this thread up very nicely indeed.

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1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Still works for me, Tom.  Cleaned this thread up very nicely indeed.

Doesn't work for me.  The "ignored users" function used to work for me, but it stopped a few weeks ago.  Maybe because I'm a moderator and have different access settings.

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2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Doesn't work for me.  The "ignored users" function used to work for me, but it stopped a few weeks ago.  Maybe because I'm a moderator and have different access settings.

Aha, but do you have a "nuclear ban" button?  LOL!  Just kidding.  He's not that bad.

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18 hours ago, mthebold said:

I didn't say anything about what, exactly, we should replace them with.  In fact, I intentionally avoided that detail because I'm aware of the dangers of dictatorships.  I'm also aware that a centralized authority would replace them with something worse.

Let's suppose you were capable of reading comprehension and had asked me what I would replace them with.  My answer would have been "vouchers".  That way, parents and students from every background - economic, social, religious, ethnic, etc - could choose exactly what they wanted in a school.  Those who like socialism could choose socialist teachers.  Those who like religious schools could choose religious schools.  Those who like capitalism could choose capitalism.  Those who prefer self-study could pocket the money.  As citizens, it's their right to choose.  The market could then decide who was employable. 

In other words, I want a completely decentralized school system where people have choice - the exact opposite of what you've claimed. 

I really wish people were not so angry with each other. I think mthebold's desire for vouchers would just be perpetuating the silo problem. 

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3 hours ago, Janet Alderton said:

I really wish people were not so angry with each other.

I'm not angry at all. 

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