Analysis: Electric cars and the Permian: Saudi Arabia in Lee County by Dr. Daniel Fine

[NickW + 2,714]

On 3/4/2019 at 6:11 AM, Wastral said:

Well, for commuting, BEV is cheaper..... assuming you could buy one for the same price as a cheap commuter car..... which you can't so, the difference in cost would pay for a lifetime of gasoline and your insurance premiums as well. 

BEV will only work in a world where everyone owns a commuter car(BEV) and a 2nd vehicle(PU/SUV powered by ICE) so they can go and do things when/where they want. Or there is a several times improvement in battery technology energy density. 

Plug in Hybrids offer both of what you describe above. 

The battery element will cover all or most daily needs with the engine there for longer distance travel. The only original Prius PHEV was built with a 4.4kwh battery as this would cover about 70% of commuter daily travel needs in Europe and Japan. 

In the UK the Prius PHEV compares favourably on price with similar cars in that size bracket. The Hyundai Ioniq looks even better and is cheaper. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,133]

42 minutes ago, NickW said:

Plug in Hybrids offer both of what you describe above. 

The battery element will cover all or most daily needs with the engine there for longer distance travel. The only original Prius PHEV was built with a 4.4kwh battery as this would cover about 70% of commuter daily travel needs in Europe and Japan. 

In the UK the Prius PHEV compares favourably on price with similar cars in that size bracket. The Hyundai Ioniq looks even better and is cheaper. 

And it appears you need to reread what I wrote which you bolded.  Along with that pesky 2nd sentence I wrote that you did not bold. 

PS: Ioniq is crap just as Prius is.  Other than the plug in version, but in typical fashion they made the battery pack way too small and its electric drive train way too small as it is the same crap as the Prius.  So, if you go on a freeway, the engine starts or drive more than 15 miles.  A real hybrid need ~100mile electric range good for 100kmh and an engine for additional range/payload.  This allows everyone to use electric for 90% of life and never have to worry if they have to make a lot of deliveries that day, or pick up a full carload of people to go to Grandmas house. 

[NickW + 2,714]

16 hours ago, Wastral said:

And it appears you need to reread what I wrote which you bolded.  Along with that pesky 2nd sentence I wrote that you did not bold. 

PS: Ioniq is crap just as Prius is.  Other than the plug in version, but in typical fashion they made the battery pack way too small and its electric drive train way too small as it is the same crap as the Prius.  So, if you go on a freeway, the engine starts or drive more than 15 miles.  A real hybrid need ~100mile electric range good for 100kmh and an engine for additional range/payload.  This allows everyone to use electric for 90% of life and never have to worry if they have to make a lot of deliveries that day, or pick up a full carload of people to go to Grandmas house. 

The current generation of PHEV Ioniq and Prius's have a battery capacity of 8.5-9 kwh. This give a typical range of 45km on battery alone.

For most commuters this covers their typical daily needs

For longer journeys including commutes they have the petrol engine to fall back on.  

I stand by what I said - this set up addresses both the issues you describe as problems.

Whats your definition of crap? We own a Hybrid Auris (Corolla) Estate (not PHEV) which may be dull but it is ultra reliable and we get 55-60mpg from it. Its zero road tax. Its a good load carrier and its performance is reasonable. Its also built in the UK which is an extra bonus.

Like most people we neither go off road or need to tow so an SUV would be a waste of money.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,133]

7 hours ago, NickW said:

The current generation of PHEV Ioniq and Prius's have a battery capacity of 8.5-9 kwh. This give a typical range of 45km on battery alone.

SNIP

Like most people we neither go off road or need to tow so an SUV would be a waste of money.

  So, for people who sit in a city, go nowhere, and do nothing to improve their life(create a business or hobbies), sure, they are ok. 

[NickW + 2,714]

5 minutes ago, Wastral said:

  So, for people who sit in a city, go nowhere, and do nothing to improve their life(create a business or hobbies), sure, they are ok. 

Why can't mono-view people like you see beyond one size fits all?

From the above do you actually understand what a PHEV is? 

For most people they don't have a real need for an SUV so these types of vehicle suits them fine for the purposes of getting from A to B. A PHEV will take you 500-600 miles before needing to refuel. 

For the record my wife is a manufacturing engineer supervising operations at two plants and drives a Hybrid to work. I work for a major railway and get the train to work. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by NickW

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,133]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

Why can't mono-view people like you see beyond one size fits all?

From the above do you actually understand what a PHEV is? 

For most people they don't have a real need for an SUV so these types of vehicle suits them fine for the purposes of getting from A to B. A PHEV will take you 500-600 miles before needing to refuel. 

For the record my wife is a manufacturing engineer supervising operations at two plants and drives a Hybrid to work. I work for a major railway and get the train to work. 

See my above post about 4 posts back....  And dear, I never said one size fits all.  IF you did want a one size fits all(Economics 101), then batteries must improve otherwise you are stuck buying at minimum 2 vehicles.  Unless your idea of life is living in a city, going nowhere, doing nothing other than watching TV and writing forum posts. 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Wastral said:

See my above post about 4 posts back....  And dear, I never said one size fits all.  IF you did want a one size fits all(Economics 101), then batteries must improve otherwise you are stuck buying at minimum 2 vehicles.  Unless your idea of life is living in a city, going nowhere, doing nothing other than watching TV and writing forum posts. 

Try actually reading what I wrote. I said - 'why do people like like you want a one size fits all car' 

I accept there needs to be a range of different vehicles to suit different uses. For the 5th time (try and let this absorb into your grey matter) the PHEV models such as the prius, Ioniq, Outlander (if you want SUV), I8, C MaX, and Fusion will meet most (not all) peoples travel needs. 

With PHEV's typical users get 60-70% of travel from electric and 30-40% off petrol. 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Wastral said:

See my above post about 4 posts back....  And dear, I never said one size fits all.  IF you did want a one size fits all(Economics 101), then batteries must improve otherwise you are stuck buying at minimum 2 vehicles.  Unless your idea of life is living in a city, going nowhere, doing nothing other than watching TV and writing forum posts. 

In the meantime PHEV vehicles offer a halfway house solution. If a household needs one car a PHEV will cover all needs. No need for the two car option as a PHEV will travel as far as far (actually a lot further) than a conventional petrol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid