China To Promote Using Wind Energy To Power Heating

[rainman + 263]

China on Friday said it would promote using energy generated by the wind to help power heating systems during the bitterly cold winters seen in many parts of the country. That comes as the world’s No.2 economy pushes to reduce carbon emissions from coal-burning as part of its battle against pollution.he National Energy Administration urged local authorities to set annual targets for generating heating using energy from wind farms over the period form 2019 to 2021. It also said they should build infrastructure to promote the use of wind power. Local governments will be given less than two months to draw up plans and submit them to Beijing.

[Pavel + 384]

I don't believe them at all...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-19/china-s-far-from-done-with-coal-as-regulator-eases-new-plant-ban

[pinto + 293]

Let's say, finally something positive in China

[Rodent + 1,424]

1 minute ago, Pavel said:

I don't believe them at all...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-19/china-s-far-from-done-with-coal-as-regulator-eases-new-plant-ban

I believe that there is a push to switch from coal, but China is quick to change the goalposts so that its citizens are not left out in the literal cold again due to piss poor planning. 

[damirUSBiH + 327]

Facts are my "middle" name.

China's fossil "growth" in one year and 90% of its "entire" wind fleet production.

 

[50 shades of black + 254]

Glad they are working on it. Doesn’t mean they aren’t still having massive pollution problems at the same time...

[markslawson + 1,042]

10 hours ago, rainman said:

China on Friday said it would promote using energy generated by the wind to help power heating systems during the bitterly cold winters seen in many parts of the country.

As other posters have noted, the Chinese government announcement means precisely nothing. This is from a report by a green group CoalSwarm in September of last year https://endcoal.org/2018/09/tsunami-warning/

Like an approaching tsunami triggered by a distant earthquake, a massive cohort of hundreds of new coal-fired power plants is on course to be added to the already overbuilt Chinese coal plant fleet. This wave of new capacity—comparable in size to the entire U.S. coal fleet—is the consequence of a little reported surge in permit approvals at the provincial level from late 2014 to early 2016. 

Note that China is building far more power plants than it actually needs - a form of over building that is common to the Chinese economy. I believe this is due to the fact that most of the economy is still run by provincial party officials who have to look good in senior officials eyes, which often means that they have to have whatever is fashionable at the time - dams, conference centres, new cities, and now coal power plants. This has nothing to do with consumer choice, market forces or the environment. Meanwhile the central government says want it wants to say knowing that any pro-environment nonsense will be swallowed whole by Western activists. However, it is possible that the Chinese officials who put out the release did so honestly in that they had no idea that coal power plant building had surged. Local media would not have reported it. If they did, they would not have dared say anything.. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

10 hours ago, 50 shades of black said:

Glad they are working on it. Doesn’t mean they aren’t still having massive pollution problems at the same time...

No meaningful results since they increased coal use regardless. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 minutes ago, markslawson said:

As other posters have noted, the Chinese government announcement means precisely nothing. This is from a report by a green group CoalSwarm in September of last year https://endcoal.org/2018/09/tsunami-warning/

Like an approaching tsunami triggered by a distant earthquake, a massive cohort of hundreds of new coal-fired power plants is on course to be added to the already overbuilt Chinese coal plant fleet. This wave of new capacity—comparable in size to the entire U.S. coal fleet—is the consequence of a little reported surge in permit approvals at the provincial level from late 2014 to early 2016. 

Note that China is building far more power plants than it actually needs - a form of over building that is common to the Chinese economy. I believe this is due to the fact that most of the economy is still run by provincial party officials who have to look good in senior officials eyes, which often means that they have to have whatever is fashionable at the time - dams, conference centres, new cities, and now coal power plants. This has nothing to do with consumer choice, market forces or the environment. Meanwhile the central government says want it wants to say knowing that any pro-environment nonsense will be swallowed whole by Western activists. However, it is possible that the Chinese officials who put out the release did so honestly in that they had no idea that coal power plant building had surged. Local media would not have reported it. If they did, they would not have dared say anything.. 

More than likely it is just the usual disinformation. They want to be seen as reaching for Greendom while doing what they always have. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

More than likely it is just the usual disinformation. They want to be seen as reaching for Greendom while doing what they always have. 

In a way yes - but I think mostly they hate to be embarrassed.  If you cause a national embarrassment you are promptly executed.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

The Beijing Olympics made a mockery of their air quality so you can be damn sure they will clean it up - at least near the major international destinations. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

16 hours ago, 50 shades of black said:

Glad they are working on it. Doesn’t mean they aren’t still having massive pollution problems at the same time...

This is Oil Price Charts... the majority here don't believe in pollution.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

This is Oil Price Charts... the majority here don't believe in pollution.

Classic!  And here I was thinking that the Canadians had lost their sense of dry humour!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

The use of windmill power output for electric resistance heating is actually a good idea.The reason is that unregulated windmill current output is easily absorbed by electric resistance, as variations in the speed of the mill, and thus the output voltage and frequency, will not hurt the resistance coils as long as there is no over-voltage. You should get 100% energy conversion with the resistors, and in heating a house there is a natural heat sink in the material inside the house, so variations in further heat input is not going to create more problems in inside temperature swings. 

What a direct grid heater system allows you to do is spare the cost of pricey power electronics on that windmill, otherwise needed if you attempt to directly connect to the electric power grid, as is typically done in the West.  Also, you avoid the expense of a rotational converter, those big expensive machines that mechanically absorb  energy variations form windmills and provide a nice smooth output for the grid to have as intake. 

Then again, if you have windmill over-speed and no over-voltage system to shut it down, then you will over-voltage those resistors and they will go on fire.  After your house burns down you can re-assess your fondness for local wind power.  So be careful out there. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 4/20/2019 at 1:24 AM, Enthalpic said:

This is Oil Price Charts... the majority here don't believe in pollution.

Working on it? Their coal use is up. We all believe in pollution, just not climate alarmism. Real pollution comes from sewage, pesticides, overuse of nitrogen fertilizers, coal burning, diesel, which is a carcinogen, lead, mercury, radiation, noise, etc. etc. Natural gas is cleaner than petroleum, it is less expensive and far more abundant. 

I am an advocate for using natural gas as the main fuel for transportation of all kinds, heat, chemicals, etc. Petroleum is needed also, but not as the primary fuel. Natural gas can do that job with the help of renewables, gasoline, ethanol, propane, butane, etc. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by ronwagn
addition

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

13 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Working on it? Their coal use is up. We all believe in pollution, just not climate alarmism. Real pollution comes from sewage, pesticides, overuse of nitrogen fertilizers, coal burning, diesel, which is a carcinogen, lead, mercury, radiation, noise, etc. etc. Natural gas is cleaner than petroleum, it is less expensive and far more abundant. 

I am an advocate for using natural gas as the main fuel for transportation of all kinds, heat, chemicals, etc. Petroleum is needed also, but not as the primary fuel. Natural gas can do that job with the help of renewables, gasoline, ethanol, propane, butane, etc. 

You actually have a clue - some here don't.  Trump literally says things like "clean coal, beautiful coal" and fools suck it up.  There is no such thing as clean coal.

I agree with your support of natural gas - it's not perfect but it's pretty good for now.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 4/20/2019 at 5:45 AM, Jan van Eck said:

The use of windmill power output for electric resistance heating is actually a good idea.The reason is that unregulated windmill current output is easily absorbed by electric resistance, as variations in the speed of the mill, and thus the output voltage and frequency, will not hurt the resistance coils as long as there is no over-voltage. You should get 100% energy conversion with the resistors, and in heating a house there is a natural heat sink in the material inside the house, so variations in further heat input is not going to create more problems in inside temperature swings. 

What a direct grid heater system allows you to do is spare the cost of pricey power electronics on that windmill, otherwise needed if you attempt to directly connect to the electric power grid, as is typically done in the West.  Also, you avoid the expense of a rotational converter, those big expensive machines that mechanically absorb  energy variations form windmills and provide a nice smooth output for the grid to have as intake. 

Then again, if you have windmill over-speed and no over-voltage system to shut it down, then you will over-voltage those resistors and they will go on fire.  After your house burns down you can re-assess your fondness for local wind power.  So be careful out there. 

Southern Alberta is very windy (Lethbridge, Pincher Creek) and there are many windmills -  shocking I know for Saudi Alberta! It disappoints me that whenever I see them they are almost always stopped.  Unless it is a peak draw time they put the brakes on them - which is disgusting since places like Pincher creek could easily do pumped hydro with all the mountains nearby.  Lethbridge could use that mechanical power directly for pumps or mills, like an old school windmill, skip electricity conversion all together. So many think we have to convert renewable energy into electricity when really we don't - just use that solar heat or wind mechanical energy directly.

[Hotone + 412]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:21 AM, markslawson said:

As other posters have noted, the Chinese government announcement means precisely nothing. This is from a report by a green group CoalSwarm in September of last year https://endcoal.org/2018/09/tsunami-warning/

Like an approaching tsunami triggered by a distant earthquake, a massive cohort of hundreds of new coal-fired power plants is on course to be added to the already overbuilt Chinese coal plant fleet. This wave of new capacity—comparable in size to the entire U.S. coal fleet—is the consequence of a little reported surge in permit approvals at the provincial level from late 2014 to early 2016. 

Note that China is building far more power plants than it actually needs - a form of over building that is common to the Chinese economy. I believe this is due to the fact that most of the economy is still run by provincial party officials who have to look good in senior officials eyes, which often means that they have to have whatever is fashionable at the time - dams, conference centres, new cities, and now coal power plants. This has nothing to do with consumer choice, market forces or the environment. Meanwhile the central government says want it wants to say knowing that any pro-environment nonsense will be swallowed whole by Western activists. However, it is possible that the Chinese officials who put out the release did so honestly in that they had no idea that coal power plant building had surged. Local media would not have reported it. If they did, they would not have dared say anything.. 

According to this Bloomberg article, although there is greenlight for coal power, most of the capital expenditure planned by coal-fired power companies will be in renewable energy

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-04-22/china-s-green-light-on-coal-power-won-t-trigger-new-plant-boom

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Hotone
Autocorrect

[NickW + 2,714]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:45 PM, Jan van Eck said:

The use of windmill power output for electric resistance heating is actually a good idea.The reason is that unregulated windmill current output is easily absorbed by electric resistance, as variations in the speed of the mill, and thus the output voltage and frequency, will not hurt the resistance coils as long as there is no over-voltage. You should get 100% energy conversion with the resistors, and in heating a house there is a natural heat sink in the material inside the house, so variations in further heat input is not going to create more problems in inside temperature swings. 

What a direct grid heater system allows you to do is spare the cost of pricey power electronics on that windmill, otherwise needed if you attempt to directly connect to the electric power grid, as is typically done in the West.  Also, you avoid the expense of a rotational converter, those big expensive machines that mechanically absorb  energy variations form windmills and provide a nice smooth output for the grid to have as intake. 

Then again, if you have windmill over-speed and no over-voltage system to shut it down, then you will over-voltage those resistors and they will go on fire.  After your house burns down you can re-assess your fondness for local wind power.  So be careful out there. 

Direct wind to heat applications are extremely rare and niche - outer Hebrides type ventures and then they usually fit load dumps to help insure against the risks you describe. 

[markslawson + 1,042]

16 hours ago, Hotone said:

According to this Bloomberg article, although there is greenlight for coal power, most of the capital expenditure planned by coal-fired power companies will be in renewable energy

Sorry Hotone but what you're probably looking at is a timing issue. Both our references are correct but coal still wins by a big margin.. the capex figures are almost certainly short term - note that no time period is given - and is from official figures which are notoriously unreliable in China. The coalswarm analysis relies on, among other things, satellite imagery and points out that the new coal plants have been delayed, hence the short term figures would be dominated by renewables. Now go and look at the pie chart in the Bloomberg. This is an obvious fudge.. note that its for INSTALLED base, not output. This way of presenting the figures greatly exaggerates the contribution of wind and solar. You need a lot of installed wind and solar to generate not much power..   As for coal plants being expensive to build that nonsense has been debunked so often it is becoming irritating. The analysts are reacting to levelized output cost measurements which have little to do with network costs.. leave it with you..