Emissions Need To Be Halved To Avoid 3C Warming

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Yawn....

Initially the conversation among all commenters revolved around climate science. The discussion which WE were having did not.

[Red + 252]

2 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Initially the conversation among all commenters revolved around climate science. The discussion which WE were having did not.

I raised an issue about a claim you made.  If it was not relevant then you need not have raised it.  Or is that to hard for you?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Hey guise, what's going on in this thread

 

 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

17 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Furthermore, many of these 'at risk' third world countries have had billions of dollars of aid pumped in to them for decades....where has it gone and what measurable difference has it made?

So now we want to give them billions more to fight climate change, do we really expect the money to go towards that issue.

Anybody on the forum that have worked the white-collar side of the oil industry in developing nations can confirm that the West is NOT trading fairly with 3rd world countries. As a result we get migration, pollution etc. I don't want to go into the discussion, but honestly this argument is complete toro caca. The West has raped and pillaged developing countries and we complain over the consequences of our actions. 

I spent my formative years years in the states on a scholarship from Christian southerners that thought the world would be a better place if they tried to understand the world and make the world understand them... 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Please show me where in this discussion that I have ever claimed or insinuated ANYTHING regarding TRADE with a developing country! I have not. I simply pointed out that developing nations have benefited, to some extent, by the technical and industrial advances of the developed world.

Could you define the 'white collar side of the oil industry in developing nations'? Not being argumentative, simply curious.

[Red + 252]

36 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I simply pointed out that developing nations have benefited, to some extent, by the technical and industrial advances of the developed world.

You did too!  Your point was as valid as saying the developed world has benefitted from the wheel, compass, paper, or gunpowder.  What you did not do was explain that progress happens over time, and the developed world did little or nothing to actually advance other nations.

Rasmus's points hold true.

And how is it related to the topic, you might ask?  Because the developing nations are not responsible for the predicament the planet is in wrt to climate.  Indeed, you even fail to understand how it could be so.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Please show me where in this discussion that I have ever claimed or insinuated ANYTHING regarding TRADE with a developing country! I have not. I simply pointed out that developing nations have benefited, to some extent, by the technical and industrial advances of the developed world.

I didn't say that you did. But to me they are connected - developing nations have benefitted because of trade. The point is that the developed nations gained a lot more than the developning nations. We have gained more from unfair trade with the developing world than we have given in aid. 

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Could you define the 'white collar side of the oil industry in developing nations'? Not being argumentative, simply curious.

Any office position that will have given you insigths into how contracts are awarded and run. 

Here a well written article that gives some hints https://www.bairdmaritime.com/work-boat-world/offshore-world/5453-column-new-corruption-allegations-against-eni-over-african-osv-contracts-offshore-accounts

And pls don't start with the "it's their own fault", "that's how business is done there" etc bla bla. The point is that we give aid with one hand and take way more than we give the other. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

Another good article which gives some perspective. 

https://www.bairdmaritime.com/work-boat-world/offshore-world/5667-column-four-things-the-oil-and-gas-industry-must-change-offshore-accounts

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

First, I think it would be instructive to know what items developing countries would desire, or could utilize, in a trade situation. Just for a simplistic example, would it be feasible for them to trade a natural resource for a vehicle which they do not have the infrastructure to operate or maintain?

Again, I am not trying to be argumentative, just throwing out thoughts for discussion.

I have actually held 'office' positions within the drilling industry in Bangladesh, Brunei, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Angola, Congo, South Africa, Tunisia, Kurdistan and Papua New Guinea. I believe that I have a working knowledge of how contracts are awarded and run.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

32 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

First, I think it would be instructive to know what items developing countries would desire, or could utilize, in a trade situation. Just for a simplistic example, would it be feasible for them to trade a natural resource for a vehicle which they do not have the infrastructure to operate or maintain?

Again, I am not trying to be argumentative, just throwing out thoughts for discussion.

I have actually held 'office' positions within the drilling industry in Bangladesh, Brunei, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Angola, Congo, South Africa, Tunisia, Kurdistan and Papua New Guinea. I believe that I have a working knowledge of how contracts are awarded and run.

I am not retired, so I would rather not continue this discussion publicly. Suffice it to say that I see things differently than you. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Fair enough. I'm not retired either...praying for serious drilling to start back up.

Good 'talking' with you.

[NickW + 2,714]

8 hours ago, Wastral said:

You didn't read the link did you?  😜

Oh yes I did.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Fair enough. I'm not retired either

Sorry. Didn't mean to say that you were. 

[Red + 252]

9 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

First, I think it would be instructive to know what items developing countries would desire, or could utilize, in a trade situation. Just for a simplistic example, would it be feasible for them to trade a natural resource for a vehicle which they do not have the infrastructure to operate or maintain?

Again, I am not trying to be argumentative, just throwing out thoughts for discussion.

You realise this contradicts your claims about "benefits". 

Maybe not.

[Michael Sanches + 187]

After reading the Guardian article, it shows 3 major culprits:

1. Totalitarian governments, like China and Russia (2 of the 3 top off the list). They will ignore us. All we have to do is nuke the bastards.

2. Developing countries that are getting electricity and modern appliances. They will ignore our calls to stop using electricity. Nuke the bastards.

3. Oil companies which provide fuel for our cars. Simply make driving illegal.

So, the only way to stop the problem is to nuke Russia, China, and the developing world, and make driving illegal. However, I don't think we are going to do this. So, there is no stopping global warming.

Here is a crazy idea. Let's not be dumber than animals! Let's adapt! Polar bears were supposed to go extinct with the disappearance of the Arctic ice. However, polar bears are not as stupid as climatologists and have, instead, flourished by moving to new areas and increasing litter size from 1-2 to 2-3. And, in a surprise to scientists, they know how to swim! I say we stop being as stupid as climatologists and, like the polar bears, adapt to the new conditions - billions of new acres in Canada, Siberia, and Greenland, as well as a short Northwest Passage for shipping.

"Survival and prosperity do not go to the strongest or smartest, they go to those best able to adapt."

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 6/20/2019 at 10:25 AM, Red said:

Ever wondered why China's Belt and Road strategy was being embraced?

And now it is being "unembraced" as third world countries realize they cannot pay China back and have to give China their land and resources as payment. 

Nope, no exploitation there.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,130]

20 hours ago, NickW said:

Oh yes I did.

If you had, you would not have stated single point although it should be pointed out the article started as single point as an example. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 6/19/2019 at 3:32 PM, 50 shades of black said:

Ok, technology. But, more simple way is to plant billions of trees and save the planet... Forests can stop runaway global heating, encourage rainfall, guarantee clean water, reduce air pollution, provide livelihoods, reserves for rare wildlife, and mitigate greenhouse gas emissions....

Agree. 

Now, let's discuss how to do this and pay for it. This is where this simple discussion gets derailed... 

[NickW + 2,714]

13 minutes ago, Wastral said:

If you had, you would not have stated single point although it should be pointed out the article started as single point as an example. 

Having scan read through what is a very poorly constructed set of paragraphs it appears to solely reference Antarctica which has been pointed out to you is not representative of global climate.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,130]

3 hours ago, NickW said:

 Antarctica which has been pointed out to you is not representative of global climate.

🤣🙄😆🤣

Make up your mind.  Either ice core data is, or is not representative of global climate...  Oh right, only like data when it is in your favor..... 🏆 which is EXACTLY why I posted it. 

[remake it + 288]

33 minutes ago, Wastral said:

🤣🙄😆🤣

Make up your mind.  Either ice core data is, or is not representative of global climate...  Oh right, only like data when it is in your favor..... 🏆 which is EXACTLY why I posted it. 

 Can we plant trees in Antarctic’s RJ?

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, NickW said:

Having scan read through what is a very poorly constructed set of paragraphs it appears to solely reference Antarctica which has been pointed out to you is not representative of global climate.

Its the implication that Antarctica may have been a bit warm in 1000 AD - so what? Ocean currents and regional weather patterns can influence a regions climate in one direction or another irrespective of whats happening on a global scale.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,130]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

Its the implication that Antarctica may have been a bit warm in 1000 AD - so what? Ocean currents and regional weather patterns can influence a regions climate in one direction or another irrespective of whats happening on a global scale.

It is an entire continent surrounded by a gigantic STABLE ocean which holds its temperature with very little variance.... Antarctica is the MOST stable of ALL continents and measurement stand ins for global temperature.  Why it is used.

[NickW + 2,714]

15 minutes ago, Wastral said:

It is an entire continent surrounded by a gigantic STABLE ocean which holds its temperature with very little variance.... Antarctica is the MOST stable of ALL continents and measurement stand ins for global temperature.  Why it is used.

And regionalised weather patterns and ocean currents can affect localised climate irrespective of whats going on at the global level. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:01 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

Lack of effective government and corruption is <strikethrough > likely </s> Certainly the root cause.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Ward Smith
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