.

[Falcon + 222]

7 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

your criticism is misplaced. 

Mr. Trump recognizes that "war" is diplomacy that is being carried on by other means, yet still to achieve the same objective.  Trump is not out to slaughter the Iranian population.  He is not out even to wreck the Iranian military.  He seeks to convince the current Iranian leadership to step down, or in the alternative to have the young Iranians overthrow the old - the ancien regime.  Trump understands the concept of proportional response: right now, the Iranians knocked out one unmanned drone, basically a piece of military hardware.  Is a proportional response to blast a launch bivouac into obliteration?  It would be if there was no personnel there.  But his intelligence reports that there are some 150 Iranian soldiers at that site, who would get killed.  Trump, quite correctly, finds that a disproportionate response, so does not authorize a strike.  He simply bides his time.  That is a lot more convincing response than say Bill Clinton who attempts to go bomb the Hindu Kush mountains in some vague attempt to nail Osama bin Laden - an effort that was pathetic and doomed to failure. 

SO far, whether you like the guy or not, whether you think he is a moron and a buffoon or not, he is proving to be the superior leader.  He knows how to keep his cool.  Not bombing a populated spot is NOT "failure to follow through."  It is careful weighing of the potential gains against the potential losses.   Do I personally like Trump?  No.  But I shall give him full marks were they are deserved. Don't let your emotions color your judgment. 

Iran took out US Drone with missile fired from SAM missile installation. Nobody died.

So this weekend Trump had military cyber force take out (disable) the Iranian SAM base. Nobody died.

NOTE :

. . .   the cyber attack provides another important benefit . Iran has to be wondering,  If the US (or Israel) has infiltrated  that SAM base what else have they infiltrated.

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Falcon

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

On 6/23/2019 at 3:11 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Cui Bono?

Only question that matters. I disagree Saudi Arabia has no interest in a war.

[Falcon + 222]

On 6/24/2019 at 1:11 AM, Marina Schwarz said:

Only question that matters. I disagree Saudi Arabia has no interest in a war.

Saudis would love a war as long as the the US Fights it, US finances it and it US soldiers that die in it.  

The OPEC production cuts have not worked. Trump's sanctions far out weight OPECs efforts.

Look at what Iraq wars did for the Iraq oil production and how long it took Iraq to get that production up to current 4 mm bbls. Saudis/OPEC would have never seen $100 + oil if Iraq production was not eliminated.

Saudi Arabia loves the fact that Iran prefers to pursue exporting of terrorism over exporting oil and gas and building a wealthy nation.

Many International Oil companies (European and Chinese) are dying to work in Iran. Why Iran chooses terrorist activity over economic prosperity defies logic. I guess their just nuts.

Saudi's would love a little US vs Iran donnybrook .

Edited July 24, 2019 by Falcon

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

21 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I completely agree with your first paragraph above. 

The second one? Not so much. Interesting to bring Central Bank into it, but there's not a linear relationship. What most Americans don't understand is How the Central Bank places currency into circulation. Understandable, since I suspect there are Federal Reserve governors who don't really understand.

I could be wrong; enlighten me. 

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 6/22/2019 at 4:17 PM, NickW said:

I did two years in OTC and 3 years in the  RA Medical Corps. I met a lot of people - Infantry, Special Forces, Engineers, air force and naval personnel etc. I never met anyone who was gung-ho about the idea of going into combat in a mountainous region, similar in size to western Europe. To be honest you sound like the classic Call of Duty Veteran. 

Note that at no point did I advocate a ground invasion of Iran, nor do the Wild Weasels have anything to do with a ground invasion. 

You suffer from a lack of reading comprehension.

[specinho + 440]

On 6/21/2019 at 1:19 PM, ceo_energemsier said:

Not only that, we (the US) can send drones after drones and scare the schitt out of Iranians and they can keep trying to and shooting down drones.

 

On 6/20/2019 at 9:17 PM, Guillaume Albasini said:

$ 189 million  is the unit cost counting the R&D. But the US is selling 6 MQ-4C triton drone to Australia for 5 billions US$. That's close to a 1 billion unit cost.

https://www.janes.com/article/87481/australia-to-acquire-second-mq-4c-triton-uav

Dear Commies............. can we have a business proposition here.............. 

Tip 1: US and Iran  should coorperate -  I send my drone and you try to shoot it.......... I make money from improvising a dodging-able drone and you make money for replenishing artilery. Why is there a need for war? We are just practising......

Tip 2: Dear Iran....... Try not to destroy the drone but catch it....... and make it yours........... or resell it........... the more they send - the merrier........

On 6/22/2019 at 3:53 AM, Toranaga said:

A writer named Graeme Wood did extensive interviews with ISIS sympathizers [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/]     His conclusion:  "The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam."

Quotes and interpretations regardless where it is found (holy book or not holy) are largely personal opinions. Only minority who do not have personal interest but working for a good outcome of a condition could form non judgemental views........

Anyway........... we should keep those very religious (both christians and muslims) riding camels and plowing on the deserts or rocky lands so that they don't have time for perverted war in the modern era.....

On 6/23/2019 at 12:10 PM, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

Inflation occurs when currency supply outstrips real production of goods and services.  

Inflation is necessary to pay national debts.  The debt is some fixed amount.  

Inflation might have occured whenever a government overspends and still feels they need more........

National debt is most likely not a fixed amount but accumulating in sum. There would be newly added overdrafts; interests to be paid; etc....  All developing countries hope to borrow heavily and being waved with payment at the end of the term......... We have been generous........ haven't we??

Edited June 24, 2019 by specinho

[James Regan + 1,776]

TRUMP RAISES SANCTIONS ON IRANIAN TOP LEADERS

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

Note that at no point did I advocate a ground invasion of Iran, nor do the Wild Weasels have anything to do with a ground invasion. 

You suffer from a lack of reading comprehension.

It was in response to this comment by you;

You underestimate how overwhelmingly effective US armor and fire support have become.  The US only takes casualties when we feel like being nice. 

I am of course assuming that US Armour hasn't grown wings and the reference to how 'overwhelmingly effective US has become' suggests an inference some form of land warfare. 

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

21 minutes ago, NickW said:

It was in response to this comment by you;

You underestimate how overwhelmingly effective US armor and fire support have become.  The US only takes casualties when we feel like being nice. 

I am of course assuming that US Armour hasn't grown wings and the reference to how 'overwhelmingly effective US has become' suggests an inference some form of land warfare. 

Are you sure?  That's not the comment you referenced:

You're also conflating two things:
1)  Whether the US could steamroll Iran were it willing to apply enough firepower.
2)  Whether US troops are excited about mountain warfare given the inevitably asinine ROEs they'll be constrained by. 

Again, reading comprehension...

[NickW + 2,714]

16 minutes ago, BenFranklin'sSpectacles said:

Are you sure?  That's not the comment you referenced:

You're also conflating two things:
1)  Whether the US could steamroll Iran were it willing to apply enough firepower.
2)  Whether US troops are excited about mountain warfare given the inevitably asinine ROEs they'll be constrained by. 

Again, reading comprehension...

What I reference is below in black and white. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by NickW

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Earlier today President Donald Trump issued an Executive Order outlining new sanctions on Iranian interests and entities that will be determined by the U.S. Treasury Dept.

The sanctions target the Supreme Leader of Iran and the Office of the Supreme Leader of Iran.

This will be financially painful for the Supreme Leader of Iran, and I fully expect EU leaders to scream stupid kneejerk reactions to these new sanctions.

In my view, this is a far, far better and nonviolent reaction to Iran shooting down a drone.  

War so lusted after by neo-con war hawks like Bolton and Pompeo is averted.

If EU leaders cry foul, seems to me it would be long overdue for U.S. to severely scale back its involvement in NATO war machine alliance and let EU pay for their own defence, in full.  Go pound sand.

Here's the full EO at White House .gov site:

Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions with Respect to Iran

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

14 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Here's the full EO at White House .gov site:

Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions with Respect to Iran

Lead article today at Epoch Times:

US Sanctions Iranian Regime Leader, Military Commanders

President Donald Trump imposed new “hard-hitting” sanctions on Iran on June 24 that targeted Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, as the Treasury Department took action against eight “senior commanders” of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards (IRGC).

In the oval office, Trump told reporters he was signing an executive order for the sanctions after a series of “aggressive behaviors” by the Islamic nation which he described as “not appropriate.”

Tensions between Iran and the United States and its allies, including Saudi Arabia, have risen since Washington pulled out of a deal last year aimed at curbing Tehran’s nuclear ambitions. Tensions grew further in May when Washington ordered all countries to halt imports of Iranian oil.

Trump said he would have imposed the additional sanctions regardless of the drone incident, blaming the recent conflict on Iran’s leadership and said the new U.S. measures “represent a strong and proportionate response to Iran’s increasingly provocative actions.”

“The Supreme Leader of Iran is one who ultimately is responsible for the hostile conduct of the regime,” he told reporters. “He is respected within his country. His office oversees the regime’s most brutal instruments.”

The president said the executive order will deny “access to key financial resources” used by the Supreme Leader, his office, and those “closely affiliated” with him.

...

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

 

 

 

Full U.S. Treasury Press Release here, intro excerpted below:

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm716

PRESS RELEASES
Treasury Targets Senior IRGC Commanders Behind Iran’s Destructive and Destabilizing Activities

June 24, 2019

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) took action today against eight senior commanders of Navy, Aerospace, and Ground Forces of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC).  These commanders sit atop a bureaucracy that supervises the IRGC’s malicious regional activities, including its provocative ballistic missile program, harassment and sabotage of commercial vessels in international waters, and its destabilizing presence in Syria.    

Today’s designations reinforce the President’s action in issuing an Executive Order imposing sanctions on the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran as well as the Supreme Leader’s Office.  The President’s order will deny Iran’s leadership access to financial resources and authorizes the targeting of persons appointed to certain official or other positions by the Supreme Leader or the Supreme Leader’s Office.  Moreover, any foreign financial institution that knowingly facilitates a significant financial transaction for entities designated under this Executive Order could be cut off from the U.S. financial system. 

...

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Earlier today President Donald Trump issued an Executive Order outlining new sanctions on Iranian interests and entities that will be determined by the U.S. Treasury Dept.

The sanctions target the Supreme Leader of Iran and the Office of the Supreme Leader of Iran.

This will be financially painful for the Supreme Leader of Iran, and I fully expect EU leaders to scream stupid kneejerk reactions to these new sanctions.

In my view, this is a far, far better and nonviolent reaction to Iran shooting down a drone.  

War so lusted after by neo-con war hawks like Bolton and Pompeo is averted.

If EU leaders cry foul, seems to me it would be long overdue for U.S. to severely scale back its involvement in NATO war machine alliance and let EU pay for their own defence, in full.  Go pound sand.

Here's the full EO at White House .gov site:

Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions with Respect to Iran

2015 Article from actual drone pilots.

I think anyone would shoot down any drone if it came in firing distance let alone air space, generally there not dropping rose petals.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/8x349x/graphic-new-veteran-sponsored-ads-are-asking-drone-pilots-not-to-fly

[pfarley@bigpond.net.au + 36]

What a load of American centred rubbish. Just because the Iranians won't bend to your will or buy your military hardware like their fellow despots the Saudis, you think you should destroy their country. How arrogant and ignorant can you be

[Falcon + 222]

37 minutes ago, pfarley@bigpond.net.au said:

What a load of American centred rubbish. Just because the Iranians won't bend to your will or buy your military hardware like their fellow despots the Saudis, you think you should destroy their country. How arrogant and ignorant can you be

LOL

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 6/22/2019 at 1:02 PM, James Regan said:

Are we talking about Khashoggi as there is more to him than meets the eye like his uncle being one of the worlds most notorious arms dealer. 🤔

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi

It should have been obvious I was talking about Anwar Sadat

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 6/22/2019 at 5:11 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Not a moment too soon! After years of turning a blind eye to big-tech’s flagrant abuse of censorship power, government subsidies, and individual privacy, it looks like the US Government is finally positioned to put real pressure on these rogue, quasi-intelligence agencies (Antitrust troubles snowball for tech giants as lawmakers join in – The New York Times, June 4, 2019.) Of course, readers of this newsletter could see this story coming well over a year in advance:

 

Tom I hope you've watched the Project Veritas video before Google takes it down (again).

Here's an article about it Google can't take down, but they'll definitely make you dig for it. 

Google Whistle-blower article

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Tom I hope you've watched the Project Veritas video before Google takes it down (again).

Here's an article about it Google can't take down, but they'll definitely make you dig for it. 

Google Whistle-blower article

Thanks Ward.  And a new one, which Google cannot take down or censor, because its hosted on 8chan, out of Google's reach:

Project Veritas - Google AI Election F*ckery

 

And a feature article from Epoch Times:

Google Stealthily Infuses Political Agenda Into Products to Prevent Trump Reelection, Insiders, Documents Say

Google is surreptitiously pushing its political agenda onto its users through its products in an effort that one employee described as “preventing the next Trump situation.”

The company has cloaked its political agenda in the veneer of “fairness,” but in reality, it means promoting the company’s political worldview at the expense of others’. It also is raising voices of those aligned with its worldview at the expense of those that oppose it, or that just aren’t aligned with it enough, according to internal documents obtained and employees speaking out or being caught on hidden camera by Project Veritas.

“They are a highly biased political machine that is bent on never letting somebody like Donald Trump come to power again,” said one Google employee, who wished to remain anonymous and spoke on camera with his likeness not shown and his voice disguised.  ...

[James Regan + 1,776]

7 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

It should have been obvious I was talking about Anwar Sadat

Sorry got lost in the text, point taken and currently sitting in corner with dunce cone on!!!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

[Heads-up] The U.S. Launched A Cyber Attack On Iran, And We're Expecting Spear Phishing Strike Backs

The tension in the Middle-East apparently prompted a game-changing move by the U.S. President.  Washington Post sources say exactly 10 years after Stuxnet, the President approved a cyberattack that took down Iranian missile control computers on the night of June 20th. The exact impact of the Cyber Command operation isn't clear, but it was described as "crippling".

The Wall Street Journal reported that Iran may attempt to retaliate with spear phishing strike back attacks against the U.S. if the tension in the Middle East continues to escalate.

Researchers at FireEye and CrowsStrike have spotted phishing campaigns linked to a known Iranian hacking group that possesses powerful, destructive tools like the Shamoon disk-wiperthat was recently used to attack Saudi Government targets and literally destroyed 35,000 machines at Saudi Aramco in 2012.

The Department of Homeland Security's cyber-security agency is warning of increased cyber-activity from Iranian hackers, and urging US companies to take protective measures against these hacker groups' most common practices -- the use of data-wiping malware, credential stuffing attacks, password spraying, and spear phishing. The warning was published in a tweet by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director Christopher Krebs.

CrowdStrike said the targeting appeared focused on U.S. government and energy-sector entities, including oil and gas, and that it had seen email lures posing as messages from the White House’s Executive Office of the President.

Adam Meyers, CrowdStrike’s vice president of intelligence, said “They are going to potentially look for ways to retaliate in the event that there is an attack, and disrupting the global energy market would fall well within the area they see as appropriate."

...

[James Regan + 1,776]

7 hours ago, James Regan said:

Sorry got lost in the text, point taken and currently sitting in corner with dunce cone on!!!

@Ward Smith You got me thinking after the ruler slap 😝 and another key player who was assasinated was King Faisal of KSA, I was a boy at the time but was living in Ajman in the UAE in the 70s. By all accounts he looked liked a progressive leader who could have made a difference in the Region.

It always stuck in my mind as I was that young I was quoted saying that King Saisal had been Fascinated. From the mouths of babes.

I didn’t realize at the time we were living in a hot bed of political activity at that time.

I have a huge respect for the Middle East and growing up there in the oil business was a honor.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_of_Saudi_Arabia

Edited June 25, 2019 by James Regan

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

33 minutes ago, James Regan said:

@Ward Smith You got me thinking after the ruler slap 😝 and another key player who was assasinated was King Faisal of KSA, I was a boy at the time but was living in Ajman in the UAE in the 70s. By all accounts he looked liked a progressive leader who could have made a difference in the Region.

It always stuck in my mind as I was that young I was quoted saying that King Saisal had been Fascinated. From the mouths of babes.

I didn’t realize at the time we were living in a hot bed of political activity at that time.

I have a huge respect for the Middle East and growing up there in the oil business was a honor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_of_Saudi_Arabia

You win hands down on growing up in the region. Did you learn any Arabic? 

Funny thing, I was in high school when the king was assassinated. It was a Jesuit school, fairly prestigious and expensive for the time (much more expensive today). Shortly after the killing, we suddenly had all these Arabic princes enrolled in the school. I'd say their average age was 25 or so. As near as we could tell, none of them spoke much English and a teacher told me they were at our school essentially to hide out in case there were more assassinations. They couldn't get into any colleges and we Were a college prep school so… My bet was the Jesuits took the money and looked the other way. 

I was in the chess club and even though we couldn't talk, I played chess with several of them and some were quite good, one was truly excellent. Couldn't get him to join the team though.  

[James Regan + 1,776]

38 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

You win hands down on growing up in the region. Did you learn any Arabic? 

Funny thing, I was in high school when the king was assassinated. It was a Jesuit school, fairly prestigious and expensive for the time (much more expensive today). Shortly after the killing, we suddenly had all these Arabic princes enrolled in the school. I'd say their average age was 25 or so. As near as we could tell, none of them spoke much English and a teacher told me they were at our school essentially to hide out in case there were more assassinations. They couldn't get into any colleges and we Were a college prep school so… My bet was the Jesuits took the money and looked the other way. 

I was in the chess club and even though we couldn't talk, I played chess with several of them and some were quite good, one was truly excellent. Couldn't get him to join the team though.  

@Ward Smith I learned enough Arabic to be a danger to myself and an embarrassment to my parents.

Growing up in the UAE was great Dubai was very small and was 10kms of desert between it and Sharjah (now it’s all one city) , I went to school in Jumeira and as we were commenting on Khashoggi we actually used Adnans swimming pool in his villa as the school pool, great days indeed.

Later I went to boarding school at Millfield in Somerset England, quite a good school (I was only there as the company paid) but the school was full of very wealthy Arab sheiks sons and my room mate was the son of James Mancham the president of the Seychelles 🇸🇨. I was just oil field trash family that got a free ride and I’m glad I did, I was very fortunate.

Another interesting point was that the house in the photo below was built by the Bin Laden construction company who were huge in the building of Dubai in the 70s, Irony keeps following me....

I have been back many times to the UAE as an adult working and it amazes me that Dubai is what it is.

See photo I’m the paler of the three...

I digressed sorry folks, flashback!

Edited June 25, 2019 by James Regan

[M_Ali + 32]

Mr oily cocaine head, Fox News hyped up armchair “general custard” with your repeated utter nonsensical arrogant pseudo-patriotism, Hollywood spiced up Jingoism, drunken cowboy attitude, intellectually retarded and historically illiterate, fan of the draft dodger old goat JB, AiPAC / MIC servant who has lost his faculty before retirement – you have very little if any knowledge about Uncle Sam’s repeated failed global foreign military  projects since WWII and the list is long indeed (link below), all at the expense of the US and even more so at the expense of the wretched citizens of the global village courtesy of phantom petrodollar printing, debt manufacturing industry run and protected by the good fellas of the BIC/MIC committing countless international atrocities, bring death and destruction to many nations to preserve NOT the flow of oil but the hegemony of the Empire built on manufacturing and exporting $debt.

So I strongly suggest you stop role playing Clint East Wood / Colonel LVC gunslingers cornering the foreign accent Mexican bandit boogie man (Castro, Ho Chi Min, Kim II Sung, Salvador Allende, Patrice Lumumba, Olof Palme, Ghaddafi, …even JFK & his brother....) on a mission to enforce the American law and carry and wave the flag of American morality, self-righteousness and heroic exceptionalism.

Your President DT was elected to office on the mandate to revive American economy, return manufacturing and heavy industry back to US to create jobs for those left in the cold and out and behind since 1971 Nixon shock and free fall of Dollar deprived of their productivity, and most importantly left in the black hole of austerity thanks to 2008 financial collapse of the corrupt BIC bailed out by FR & USTD printing money to tune of only God knows how many Trillions of Dollars creating  another  depression worldwide worse than the first leading to demise of the American Middle Class and “American Dream”, a Hegelian Absolute idea of Existence if ever one existed? With 45 million hapless American poor souls on poverty line queening up for food stamps while only a hand full of B-Club / C-Suit members hown more than half the entire US national wealth?

Before you or anyone else jump on your gun and on high horse of patriotism John Wayne style at the battle of Aalmo, and start shooting Foreign bandits, for your info I’m NOT a US hater; I was privileged not by class but by intellect from a young age to be able to read and be enlighten by Great American social thinkers and writers like Jack London, Ernest Hemingway, John Steinbeck and later to be educated by the likes of Prof Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman which I doubt you’ve heard of them.

Noam Chomsky another contemporary American educator, writer, thinker philosopher I read and respect believes all American Presidents since WWII must be put on Nuremberg style trial for crimes against humanity.

Your stupid armchair war mongering rants shows you’re not of the caliber to read and understand these great thinkers and educators. So I suggest you watch and listen to Peoples Philosopher George Carlin’s video to enlighten you about American Dreams and what “being great again” means for the millions of toiling hardworking God-fearing American folks is a world apart from that understood and attained by  B-Club/C-Suit folks.

If that doesn’t work then you should pick a joint and join “sleepy joe” and stop making armchair-glued ass general of yourself playing the Fox News intoxicated gunslinger cowboy on this energy professional forum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States