NATO Article 5: Attack on one member is attack on all. Members all must come to defense . . . NOT facilitate financial transactions to circumvent and foil US Sanctions. Somebody please tell Angela.

(edited)

Angela Merkel paying less than half share of their obligation for NATO dues. (Supposed to pay 2% GDP). Germany agreed to improve to 1 1/2 % by 2024 (till after Trump out, will never pay)  Why does US put up with Germany.  I say start the 25% tariff on those BMW and Mercedes engines they export to US assembly plants.

Angela signed Obama's "Coalition of the Willing" to rein in ISIS in Syria. But when asked to help out Angela wasn't willing.  

If Europe gets on board US could address Iranian hostile behavior.  Japan and South Korea seem to be cooperating. That just leaves Europe, India and China. Turkey and India are going to do their own thing.

Why is US still spending $100s of Billions protecting OPEC shipping lanes for transport of oil and natural gas to Europe, India and China. 

After US spent a $ Trillion cleaning up Afghanistan China walked in and negotiated an agreement to mine the rare earth elements. Was and is still unstable. Don't know if agreement still stands.

US oil companies ? They really aren't US oil companies in true sense of the word. They are International oil companies. They don't pay much if any US Corp income tax. US derives no revenue, no income tax, no product from a Chevron or EXXON refinery or petrochemical plant in Saudi Arabia.

It's getting tiresome seeing Mideast dominating the evening news for the last 20 (even 30) years. 

UNITED STATES ENERGY EMERGENCE HAS CHANGED EVERYTHING.  

US INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, FAIR TRADE POLICY, TAX LAW AND DEFENSE POLICY HAVE NOT CAUGHT UP.

US GET OUT OF MIDEAST.

US has no " interest to protect "

 

Edited by Falcon

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1 hour ago, Falcon said:

.Angela Merkel paying less than half share of NATO dues. (Supposed to pay 2% GDP) .  Germany agreed to improve to 1 1/2 % by 2024.  Why does US put up with her.  I say start the 25% tariff on those BMW and Mercedes engines she exports to US assembly plants.

Angela signed Obama's "Coalition of the Willing" to rein in ISIS in Syria. But when asked to help out Angela wasn't willing.  

If Europe gets on board US might be able to address Iranian hostilities.  Japan and South Korea seem to be cooperating. That just leaves Europe, India and China. Turkey and India are going to do their own thing.

Why is US still spending $100s of Billions protecting OPEC shipping lanes for transport of oil and natural gas to Europe and China.

US oil companies ? They really aren't US oil companies in true sense of the word. They are International oil companies. They don't pay much if any US Corp income tax. US derives no revenue, no income tax, no product from a Chevron or EXXON refinery or petrochemical plant in Saudi Arabia.

It's getting tiresome seeing Mideast dominating the US evening news for the last 20 (even 30) years. 

UNITED STATES ENERGY EMERGENCE HAS CHANGED EVERYTHING.  

US INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, FAIR TRADE POLICY, TAX LAW AND DEFENSE POLICY HAVE NOT CAUGHT UP.

US GET OUT OF MIDEAST.

US has no " interest to protect "

 

The USA has an issue with Iran (possibly at the bequest of certain puppet masters), Europe doesn't, or least doesn't to the same degree so its the USA that has largely precipitated this issue in the first place.

On the issue of the USA's energy emergence - remind me what its net oil import requirements are?

 

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The US has an issue with Iran, but so does any other country in the region who fears a nuclear armed Iran.

Many countries have a vested interest in keeping the Straits open, but apparently do not want to get involved. By default, the US once again becomes the world's policeman.

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(edited)

19 hours ago, NickW said:

The USA has an issue with Iran (possibly at the bequest of certain puppet masters), Europe doesn't, or least doesn't to the same degree so its the USA that has largely precipitated this issue in the first place.

On the issue of the USA's energy emergence - remind me what its net oil import requirements are?

 

 

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

 

19 hours ago, NickW said:

 

 

"Puppet Master" ?  Please  keep Anti-Semitic views to yourself. Some things never change. Too bad. 

I say fin, U.S.  get out of Mideast  . . . . get out of NATO.  You and Angie can fend for yourselves and protect the Persian gulf shipping lanes. . US is moving a large part of NATO installation from Germany to Poland.  Good for Poland. 

US has much more oil than needed for our internal use. US exporting 3.4 mm bbls/day . . . GOING TO 8 mm bbls/day crude oil in 4 years.  US imports large quantities of crude to facilitate a thriving products export business (over 8 Billion bbls refined product plus NGLs and ethylene) .  

 

Edited by Falcon
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59 minutes ago, Falcon said:

 

 

"Puppet Master" ?  Please  keep Anti-Semitic views to yourself. Somethings never change. Too bad. 

I say fin, U.S.  get out of Mideast  . . . . get out of NATO.  You and Angie can fend for yourselves and protect the Persian gulf shipping lanes. . US is moving a large part of NATO installation from Germany to Poland.  Good for Poland. 

US has much more oil than needed for our internal use. US exporting 3.4 mm bbls/day . . . GOING TO 8 mm bbls/day in 4 years.  US import large quantities of crude to facilitate a thriving products export business (over 8 Billion bbls refined product) .  

 

Could just as easily be KSA with all their military procurement orders. Secondly you appear to conflate anti Semitism with criticism of Israeli policy - they are two separate issues. You are no different to people who cry 'Islamophobia' in response to any perceived criticism of Muslim countries.

Also I see 'maffs' isn't your strong point.

The USA may export oil and based on the link below it was 4.4mbpd in 2018. What you have omitted is the 10 mbpd it imports so the net import requirement is 5-6 mbpd. I think that's second only to China in terms of gross import requirements.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

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1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The US has an issue with Iran, but so does any other country in the region who fears a nuclear armed Iran.

Many countries have a vested interest in keeping the Straits open, but apparently do not want to get involved. By default, the US once again becomes the world's policeman.

Take a look at whats around Iran - a nuclear armed, sunni predominated and increasingly 'sharia'  Pakistan. KSA - a country with an obsession against Shia's and their 'apostate' ways. Sunni  Insurgencies (ISIS & AQ) with a pathological hatred of Shias funded by Sunni states and possibly the USA.  Surrounded by US military facilities, a modern history of having its internal politics interfered with and in a couple of cases being invaded.

Put yourself in their shoes and then ask would you consider the same track faced with he same challenges?

I don't agree with their stance on Israel - my view is that they should retract the threats and stick to a persona no grata position as regards Israel. Israel can live with that as can the rest of the World.

 

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(edited)

17 hours ago, NickW said:

 

The USA may export oil and based on the link below it was 4.4mbpd in 2018. What you have omitted is the 10 mbpd it imports so the net import requirement is 5-6 mbpd. I think that's second only to China in terms of gross import requirements.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Nick

Here are the EIA numbers week ending June 14th.

US produces 12.3 mm bbls/day

US crude imports 6.4 mm bbls/day (most from Canada)

US crude oil exports 3.4 mm bbls/day

US products exports 6.1 mm bbls/day .  (gasoline, distillates, kerosene, butane)

 

US OPEC imports down to just  1.5 mm bbls/day. Half of that from Arabian Peninsula/Persian Gulf that US spends hundreds of Billions protecting each year.  Then most of that 750k bbls goes to Saudis Motivated Refinery. Who cares.

Why is US spending hundreds of Billions protect OPECs exports to China/Asia, Europe and India. 

US doesn't need their oil.

US has no "interest to protect" in Mideast.

US crude oil, natural gas and natural gas liquids all growing strong for years to come.

maff  that.

Edited by Falcon

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2 hours ago, Falcon said:

Nick

Here are the EIA numbers week ending June 14th.

US produces 12.3 mm bbls/day

US crude imports 6.4 mm bbls/day (most from Canada)

US crude oil exports 3.4 mm bbls/day

US products exports (gasoline,distillates,kerosene,butane) 6.1 mm bbls/day

 

US OPEC imports down to 1.5 mm bbls/day. Half of that from Arabian Peninsula/Persian Gulf.  Then most of that 750k bbls goes to Saudis Motivated Refinery.

Why is US spending hundreds of Billions protect OPECs exports to China/Asia, Europe and India.

US doesn't need their oil.

US has no "interest to protect" in Mideast.

US crude oil, natural gas and natural gas liquids all growing strong.

great - no need then to go flying drones through Iranian airspace then. 

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6 hours ago, NickW said:

 Surrounded by US military facilities, a modern history of having its internal politics interfered with and in a couple of cases being invaded.

You would think the Iranians, being a clever and realistic people, would strike up an Alliance with the USA, some sort of mutual defense pact complete with US bases inside Iran with Iran being the host, including a nice large naval base for the 7th Fleet out in the open-sea area outside the Straits and the Gulf.  Now, that would be the smart move.  Plus, then you get immediate access to the lucrative US market. 

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(edited)

On 6/21/2019 at 4:04 PM, NickW said:

great - no need then to go flying drones through Iranian airspace then. 

I agree. US get out of middle east.

OPEC can only keep the price of oil up so long. The whole region. .  .  .  . Arabian Peninsula, Persia, Northern Africa, Subsaharan Africa and Western Africa are all overly dependent on oil economies. Just imagine what it will be like when Brent benchmark eventually settles around $50. ? ? ? 

Do you want to be there when the pressures on ?

Will there really be mass migration to Europe ?

Are there European or US contingency plans ?

What would the autocratic Islamist country like Iran do with their nukes then ?

Edited by Falcon

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(edited)

On 6/21/2019 at 11:55 AM, NickW said:

Take a look at whats around Iran - a nuclear armed, sunni predominated and increasingly 'sharia'  Pakistan. KSA - a country with an obsession against Shia's and their 'apostate' ways. Sunni  Insurgencies (ISIS & AQ) with a pathological hatred of Shias funded by Sunni states and possibly the USA.  Surrounded by US military facilities, a modern history of having its internal politics interfered with and in a couple of cases being invaded.

Put yourself in their shoes and then ask would you consider the same track faced with he same challenges?

I don't agree with their stance on Israel - my view is that they should retract the threats and stick to a persona no grata position as regards Israel. Israel can live with that as can the rest of the World.

 

Obama reached out to Iran. He gave them everything they demanded including their $150 Billion of frozen assets. Obama assumed they would normalize relations and build a prosperous nation and cease the terrorist activity.

Iran should have thanked Obama.

Instead they screamed, "DEATH TO AMERICA" and used the $150 Billion to increase terrorist activity around the world and further develop ballistic missiles.

IRAN has a very SIMPLE CHOICE: (1) attempt to get nukes or (2) build a prosperous and wealthy nation.

 

 

Edited by Falcon
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(edited)

On 6/21/2019 at 11:48 AM, NickW said:

Secondly you appear to conflate anti Semitism with criticism of Israeli policy - they are two separate issues. You are no different to people who cry 'Islamophobia' in response to any perceived criticism of Muslim countries.

 

You have a gift for putting words in other peoples mouths.

It's not appreciated.

Edited by Falcon

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(edited)

20 hours ago, Falcon said:

You have a gift for putting words in other peoples mouths.

It's not appreciated.

Eh? 

Lets take a little look....

In reference to me suggesting that puppet masters (people pulling the strings behind the scenes) might be trying to work Trump  - you accused me of anti semitism. 

My comment

The USA has an issue with Iran (possibly at the bequest of certain puppet masters), Europe doesn't, or least doesn't to the same degree so its the USA that has largely precipitated this issue in the first place.

Your response

"Puppet Master" ?  Please  keep Anti-Semitic views to yourself. Some things never change. Too bad. 

My response

Could just as easily be KSA with all their military procurement orders. Secondly you appear to conflate anti Semitism with criticism of Israeli policy - they are two separate issues. You are no different to people who cry 'Islamophobia' in response to any perceived criticism of Muslim countries.

Edited by NickW

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35 minutes ago, NickW said:

Eh? 

Lets take a little look....

In reference to me suggesting that puppet masters (people pulling the strings behind the scenes) might be trying to work Trump  - you accused me of anti semitism. 

My comment

The USA has an issue with Iran (possibly at the bequest of certain puppet masters), Europe doesn't, or least doesn't to the same degree so its the USA that has largely precipitated this issue in the first place.

Your response

"Puppet Master" ?  Please  keep Anti-Semitic views to yourself. Some things never change. Too bad. 

My response

Could just as easily be KSA with all their military procurement orders. Secondly you appear to conflate anti Semitism with criticism of Israeli policy - they are two separate issues. You are no different to people who cry 'Islamophobia' in response to any perceived criticism of Muslim countries.

OK truce.

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On 6/21/2019 at 10:57 PM, Falcon said:

Angela Merkel paying less than half share of their obligation for NATO dues. (Supposed to pay 2% GDP). Germany agreed to improve to 1 1/2 % by 2024 (till after Trump out, will never pay)  Why does US put up with Germany.  I say start the 25% tariff on those BMW and Mercedes engines they export to US assembly plants.

Angela signed Obama's "Coalition of the Willing" to rein in ISIS in Syria. But when asked to help out Angela wasn't willing.  

If Europe gets on board US could address Iranian hostile behavior.  Japan and South Korea seem to be cooperating. That just leaves Europe, India and China. Turkey and India are going to do their own thing.

Why is US still spending $100s of Billions protecting OPEC shipping lanes for transport of oil and natural gas to Europe, India and China. 

After US spent a $ Trillion cleaning up Afghanistan China walked in and negotiated an agreement to mine the rare earth elements. Was and is still unstable. Don't know if agreement still stands.

US oil companies ? They really aren't US oil companies in true sense of the word. They are International oil companies. They don't pay much if any US Corp income tax. US derives no revenue, no income tax, no product from a Chevron or EXXON refinery or petrochemical plant in Saudi Arabia.

It's getting tiresome seeing Mideast dominating the evening news for the last 20 (even 30) years. 

UNITED STATES ENERGY EMERGENCE HAS CHANGED EVERYTHING.  

US INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, FAIR TRADE POLICY, TAX LAW AND DEFENSE POLICY HAVE NOT CAUGHT UP.

US GET OUT OF MIDEAST.

US has no " interest to protect "

 

The Non US parts of NATO have more aircraft, more ships and more troops than their only potential enemy. They have enough nuclear weapons to destroy Russian civilisation so why should they be wasting more money on defence. The 2% figure is not a due to anyone it is a reluctantly agreed number forced by the US

The only reason the straights of Hormuz need protection is the US's irrational fixation with Iran. If the US pulls out Iran and Saudi Arabia, both despotic regimes (with the US ally being arguably worse) can fight their own battles

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1 hour ago, Falcon said:

OK truce.

^ yes please.

General note, to no particular persons:

Online, it can be very easy to misunderstand comments, as there are no facial cues or other normal face-to-face interactions.

Prolly better to ask for clarifications rather than deny the benefit of doubt.

Realize others will not see things the same way.

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(edited)

On 6/24/2019 at 6:07 PM, pfarley@bigpond.net.au said:

The Non US parts of NATO have more aircraft, more ships and more troops than their only potential enemy. They have enough nuclear weapons to destroy Russian civilisation so why should they be wasting more money on defence. The 2% figure is not a due to anyone it is a reluctantly agreed number forced by the US

The only reason the straights of Hormuz need protection is the US's irrational fixation with Iran. If the US pulls out Iran and Saudi Arabia, both despotic regimes (with the US ally being arguably worse) can fight their own battles

My point exactly. As you point out NATO doesn't need US so US should exit NATO.  Sooner the better.

"Irrational fixation with Iran" ? What are u smoking. Iran is such a good international citizen.  Right.  Not worth debating with . .. .

What leader would prefer to spread terrorism as opposed to develop oil and gas resources making Iran very prosperous, very wealthy.

Iran living in the 16th century.

Edited by Falcon

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