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Saudi and UAE pressure to get US support for Oil quotas is reportedly on..

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27 minutes ago, NickW said:

I thought that was a fairly typical shift pattern for the North Sea where you have to share a room with a Jock (or Norge equiv) who snores like a ship foghorn. 

I understood that shift rota includes all annual leave. 

2 weeks on / off - if working 12 hour days 7 days a week is equivalent to a 2184 hour work year

2 on / 4 off 1456 hours

2 on / 6 off 1092 hours. 

If a land lubber on 8-5 then assuming 5 weeks holiday and 2 weeks public holidays is 1800 hours if working a 40 hour week. 

 

But being paid a fortune, let’s add that into the mix 

Snoring Jock 😂 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

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(edited)

13 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

That really has nothing to do with oil and the pricing of it.

I disagree, Ruff. The culture of the Middle Eastern producers has everything to do with the pricing of oil. Since that area sits on an overwhelming supply of petroleum that can be produced for less than $10/B, their decisions on how much to produce and the price they are willing to accept sets the global market. And past history strongly suggests that those decisions are whimsical. Therefore the better "feel" one has for the culture, the greater the chance that their whims can be accommodated.

Edited by William Edwards
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8 hours ago, SKEP said:

Boat

Your point is what ? Increased production ?

I could be wrong, but I interpret it as near term production rise but long term decline. 

I haven't followed many economic reports, but from follows the news and reading this forum we know a couple things.

DUCT's were both high and under reported which tells us companies can easily sustain and or increase production. They are now according to Boat declining for the first time.

Rig count has declined by 10-12% this year which is accordance with the decline in DUCT count.

Debt financing and equity investing is drying up in the shale patch.

All this tells me that although we have may have near term growth, shale companies are using DUCTs to maintain growth and generate cash flow from past expenditures, thus reducing new capital expenditures by not drilling new wells. They're blowing out existing supply to generate cash flow.

If anyone can chime in on the average time to drill a well and its production capacity. We could probably get a good idea of the rate of growth/decline in US production holding prices/costs/ inceases in existing production growth per well constant.

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16 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

I'M impressed. Always helps to understand where a person is coming from.  Thanks. 

What is your opinion of the Saudi Justice System  A little barbaric ? 

@William Edwards, that was the original quote. I answered to the bottom portion as KSA's may be sitting on a lot of oil but who can wipe them and the Iranians off the map. They know their place in hierarchy of pricing.

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(edited)

As an offshore oil worker I wish I could get 2 on 4 off. Been trying for a year to get even time as this 28/14 thing that a lot of boat companies do is bullshit.

Edited by Landon Ferguson
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16 hours ago, NickW said:

I thought that was a fairly typical shift pattern for the North Sea where you have to share a room with a Jock (or Norge equiv) who snores like a ship foghorn. 

I understood that shift rota includes all annual leave. 

2 weeks on / off - if working 12 hour days 7 days a week is equivalent to a 2184 hour work year

2 on / 4 off 1456 hours

2 on / 6 off 1092 hours. 

If a land lubber on 8-5 then assuming 5 weeks holiday and 2 weeks public holidays is 1800 hours if working a 40 hour week. 

 

Most outfits working a rotation do not give any annual leave.

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11 hours ago, Landon Ferguson said:

As an offshore oil worker I wish I could get 2 on 4 off. Been trying for a year to get even time as this 28/14 thing that a lot of boat companies do is bullshit.

One of the reasons that we left OZ and came back to the UK was that increasingly Oil and mining companies, especially contractors were expecting staff  to work 21/7 and even 28/7 rotas.

F**k that.

Most marriages under that strain end in Divorce when the bloke comes home early to find his wife sh*****g her personal trainer

I am far happier working 9-5  with an occasional night shift and settling for a moderate lifestyle at home with my family.

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16 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Most outfits working a rotation do not give any annual leave.

Maybe most outfits in the US (where leave rates are among the lowest in the world).

 

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(edited)

12 hours ago, NickW said:

One of the reasons that we left OZ and came back to the UK was that increasingly Oil and mining companies, especially contractors were expecting staff  to work 21/7 and even 28/7 rotas.

F**k that.

Most marriages under that strain end in Divorce when the bloke comes home early to find his wife sh*****g her personal trainer

I am far happier working 9-5  with an occasional night shift and settling for a moderate lifestyle at home with my family.

The old joke for oil workers is that they are one of three things: a drunk, divorced, or drunk and divorced.

Edited by Enthalpic

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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

Maybe most outfits in the US (where leave rates are among the lowest in the world).

 

If you are working an equal time rotation days on/days off (in the oilfield this is commonly 28/28, 21/21 or 14/14) you are already getting 6 months off a year! How much more leave do you expect a company to provide and stay in business?

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36 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

If you are working an equal time rotation days on/days off (in the oilfield this is commonly 28/28, 21/21 or 14/14) you are already getting 6 months off a year! How much more leave do you expect a company to provide and stay in business?

Depends on how many hours a day they are putting in while working.  Some of those days off I wouldn't consider "vacation" - more like banked recovery time / missed weekends because you did 12 hour days for weeks straight.

I worked 5 days a week at 7.5 hours a day and got 4 weeks vacation.  So a standard week was 37.5 hours; if some poor sap is doing 12h/day for 7+ days straight that's 84 hour weeks... hence all the time off.

 

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2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Depends on how many hours a day they are putting in while working.  Some of those days off I wouldn't consider "vacation" - more like banked recovery time / missed weekends because you did 12 hour days for weeks straight.

I worked 5 days a week at 7.5 hours a day and got 4 weeks vacation.  So a standard week was 37.5 hours; if some poor sap is doing 12h/day for 7+ days straight that's 84 hour weeks... hence all the time off.

 

When you sign on you agree to work 12 hours a day, or more if the operation requires it. I am coming from an offshore drilling perspective. If you mandate an 8 hour workday offshore, where operations are 24/7, that means you must hire a third shift (tour) and provide room and board offshore for the additional extra shift.

Keep in mind that while you are offshore making a much better wage than onshore, everything is provided to you (accommodation, food, laundry service, etc...).

Recovery from what? Much of the work offshore is exactly the same as working in an office or shop onshore - just longer hours for which you signed on for. Granted, the roughnecks, roustabouts, crane operators, drillers, derrickmen, etc..are working like dogs, but that has always been the nature of the beast. If you can't handle the heat, don't go into the kitchen (ie, sign up).

In fact, the drillers now sit in air conditioned doghouses and do their jobs sitting in cyberchairs.

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7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

If you are working an equal time rotation days on/days off (in the oilfield this is commonly 28/28, 21/21 or 14/14) you are already getting 6 months off a year! How much more leave do you expect a company to provide and stay in business?

One of the scams I saw in the Mining industry (OZ) was your travel to site was in your time. So you only actually got 5 days off after working 14x12 hour days (which is over a months work on a 9-5) .

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28 minutes ago, NickW said:

One of the scams I saw in the Mining industry (OZ) was your travel to site was in your time. So you only actually got 5 days off after working 14x12 hour days (which is over a months work on a 9-5) .

If you are living in-country, this is common as you need to get yourself to work (wellsite, helipad, crewboat dock, etc...).

Back when things got tight back in the late '80's I had to relocate to the Gulf coast as the company would no longer pay for my flights out of Denver. Just part of the game.

If you are working internationally it is up to you to negotiate 'travel day' pay and have it written into the contract. This is simply due diligence on the part of the consultant. If you feel that non-payment for travel days is a deal breaker, that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you sign the contract.

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1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

If you are living in-country, this is common as you need to get yourself to work (wellsite, helipad, crewboat dock, etc...).

Back when things got tight back in the late '80's I had to relocate to the Gulf coast as the company would no longer pay for my flights out of Denver. Just part of the game.

If you are working internationally it is up to you to negotiate 'travel day' pay and have it written into the contract. This is simply due diligence on the part of the consultant. If you feel that non-payment for travel days is a deal breaker, that is up to you. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you sign the contract.

These arrangements may work well for single people. IMO they are completely unviable if you have children and have some desire to partake in bringing them up.

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1 minute ago, NickW said:

These arrangements may work well for single people. IMO they are completely unviable if you have children and have some desire to partake in bringing them up.

Then don't take the job! Find something that suits your criteria.

Companies cannot, and should not be expected to, cater to the specific requirements of each employee - especially in a down market.

Before you start hammering me on being insensitive, I have been out of work for over three years (drilling industry). I COULD have gone back to work if I would relocate, but I am married to a Chinese girl here in Malaysia and relocating HER to the Middle East or Africa is simply out of the question. That was MY decision and I'll live with the consequences. I do not expect any HR department to understand this.

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4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Companies cannot, and should not be expected to, cater to the specific requirements of each employee - especially in a down market.

I am with you on this one. However, with caveat that onerous demands on employees can have HSE consequences. 

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11 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am with you on this one. However, with caveat that onerous demands on employees can have HSE consequences. 

Very true! The problem this day and age is that some peoples definition of onerous demands (I am not directing this at you...) is laughable. The work ethic today is pathetic, generally speaking. Working longer than an 8 hour day is considered criminal...although all they are doing is sitting at a desk working a computer. HSE departments have become 'kingdoms to themselves', issuing well worded mandates about operations they rarely see or understand.

I have never worked for ANY outfit, in over 30 years, which willingly put an employee at risk. 

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(edited)

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Then don't take the job! Find something that suits your criteria.

Companies cannot, and should not be expected to, cater to the specific requirements of each employee - especially in a down market.

Before you start hammering me on being insensitive, I have been out of work for over three years (drilling industry). I COULD have gone back to work if I would relocate, but I am married to a Chinese girl here in Malaysia and relocating HER to the Middle East or Africa is simply out of the question. That was MY decision and I'll live with the consequences. I do not expect any HR department to understand this.

I think if you read my previous post a couple back I did.

I now work in the rail industry.

 

I don't have an issue with 2/2 or 2/3 type contracts. It was the ridiculous 3/1 and 4/1 contracts being offered in mining in particular. 

Edited by NickW

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6 hours ago, NickW said:

I think if you read my previous post a couple back I did.

I now work in the rail industry.

 

I don't have an issue with 2/2 or 2/3 type contracts. It was the ridiculous 3/1 and 4/1 contracts being offered in mining in particular. 

Nick, my comment was not directed at you personally, but towards anyone who finds themself in this situation.

I have worked all sorts of rotation schemes, but you are correct when you say that some of the rotations offered become very one-sided, especially in a down market. If you would agree to those terms you would spend the majority of your time either at work or traveling with essentially no time to take care of business at home or relaxing.

This is another case where the HR department's head is up it's butt as you end up with a burnt out employee very quickly....but hey, you filled the role!

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9 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Nick, my comment was not directed at you personally, but towards anyone who finds themself in this situation.

I have worked all sorts of rotation schemes, but you are correct when you say that some of the rotations offered become very one-sided, especially in a down market. If you would agree to those terms you would spend the majority of your time either at work or traveling with essentially no time to take care of business at home or relaxing.

This is another case where the HR department's head is up it's butt as you end up with a burnt out employee very quickly....but hey, you filled the role!

The 4/1's only work for single people who are happy to sacrifice personal time in the short term.

An electrician in Oz  I knew did a 4/1 for two years to basically pay off the mortgages on the 3 rental properties he owned and stack up his superannuation which made sense given the tax he was paying on his salary . He also rented out his own pad as he was only back in Perth 5 days every 5 weeks. Instead he paid a mate a couple of hundred bucks to kip at his for the week and store a bit of stuff.

As you say you get all your food and accommodation for free so can develop a hefty builders ar$e in no time at all.

 

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(edited)

On 8/13/2019 at 12:09 PM, Matthew w said:

 

If anyone can chime in on the average time to drill a well and its production capacity. We could probably get a good idea of the rate of growth/decline in US production holding prices/costs/ inceases in existing production growth per well constant.

About 1 month to drill and $2-3m cost for the drilling. Completion can be $2-4m depending on the type of frac.  This is for a 4500 foot lateral.  Typical production is 20-25kbbl/mo or 850bbl/day in the second month which is usually the peak month.  I am currently receiving daily drilling reports on three new wells so these are up to the minute numbers.

Edited by wrs

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On 8/13/2019 at 12:09 PM, Matthew w said:

I could be wrong, but I interpret it as near term production rise but long term decline. 

I haven't followed many economic reports, but from follows the news and reading this forum we know a couple things.

DUCT's were both high and under reported which tells us companies can easily sustain and or increase production. They are now according to Boat declining for the first time.

Rig count has declined by 10-12% this year which is accordance with the decline in DUCT count.

Debt financing and equity investing is drying up in the shale patch.

All this tells me that although we have may have near term growth, shale companies are using DUCTs to maintain growth and generate cash flow from past expenditures, thus reducing new capital expenditures by not drilling new wells. They're blowing out existing supply to generate cash flow.

If anyone can chime in on the average time to drill a well and its production capacity. We could probably get a good idea of the rate of growth/decline in US production holding prices/costs/ inceases in existing production growth per well constant.

Go to the EIA website and look around. Many of your questions can be answered there. The drilling productivity report comes out mid month. Number of wells drilled by area. Number of completions, estimated production gain or loss by well avg and by play. There is a spreadsheet that tracks all the way back to 2014 that is facinating. If you have troubling finding a particular bit of info, holler. I will help if I can. First, in the search box type “Drilling Productivity Report”

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6 hours ago, Boat said:

Go to the EIA website and look around. Many of your questions can be answered there. The drilling productivity report comes out mid month. Number of wells drilled by area. Number of completions, estimated production gain or loss by well avg and by play. There is a spreadsheet that tracks all the way back to 2014 that is facinating. If you have troubling finding a particular bit of info, holler. I will help if I can. First, in the search box type “Drilling Productivity Report”

Will do. Thanks.

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On 8/15/2019 at 9:43 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Very true! The problem this day and age is that some peoples definition of onerous demands (I am not directing this at you...) is laughable. The work ethic today is pathetic, generally speaking. Working longer than an 8 hour day is considered criminal...although all they are doing is sitting at a desk working a computer. HSE departments have become 'kingdoms to themselves', issuing well worded mandates about operations they rarely see or understand.

I have never worked for ANY outfit, in over 30 years, which willingly put an employee at risk. 

Doug- We are currently up and running in Brasil its unbelievable what we need to do to get a guy offshore, we have to pay 110% taxes on the guys salary he also gets a thirteenth salary at christmas and a paid months holliday, we need to pay 20% extra for nights and god forbid he has to work overtime. If he does more than fourteen days we also get crucified and then after all this he will quit in a few months then take us to court and win.

Welcome to BRAAASSSSSSIIIILLLLLLLL

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