It's Not the Job of the Government to Dictate Where Businesses Should Go

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(edited)

Ok. I'm pretty open to other people's beliefs, but this birtherism stuff I don't care about.  I would rather debate the merits of national socialism with a Nazi then argue conspiracies with birtherists.  You obviously believe that Obama wasn't born here, and I obviously believe otherwise, so let's just leave it at that and move on from that point.  

My question is this: if you care so much about deficits, debt, and corruption, then why are you still supporting Trump? Under Trump, the deficit, debt and corruption have all either increased or stayed the same.  Everyone who was getting screwed before Trump came into office are still getting screwed today.  

Edited by Zhong Lu

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12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

I cannot remember.  The subsidy issue evaporated once Bombardier handed away the program to Airbus.  Presumably that was punishment enough. 

EDIT:  Now that I think about it, I recall that Boeing did not go directly to the WTO, at least not at first, instead the filed a Complaint inside the US Government at the Commerce Department.  It was that department that in turn issued the tariff edict.  

Boeing in turn was lacerated over their proposed sales of fighter aircraft to Canada.  I think that deal was canned, it became politically unpalatable.  Boeing also had some deal to do refurbishments of various older US jet aircraft for the Canadian military.  That was publicly threatened.  What Boeing did was hit a raw nerve.  Keep in mind that the costs of that C-series airplane just about bankrupted the Company.  Bombardier is a huge employer inside Canada, and has factories all over Europe.  I don't know the numbers but it would not surprise me to hear that 100,000 work for Bombardier.  Probably the largest single employer outside the government. The company was crushed.

Ironically, the C-series is a superb airplane.  Just superb.  A fabulous accomplishment, and a tribute to Quebec industry. 

When you look up brilliant in the dictionary, you'll never see a picture of Boeing. Just sayin

  • Haha 1

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12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

  That market is now nailed shut against them, no Canadian will fly on a Boeing airplane, so incensed are the Canadians about having their prized aircraft trashed by Boeing.  Moral: never, ever, step on National Pride. 

As far as I know Boeing is still in the running to fill our request for 88 jets (~20billion).

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-launches-request-for-proposals-for-88-new-fighter-jets-after/

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7 hours ago, John Foote said:

That's definitely Harley's real problem, an elderly customer base, and because a well maintained one last, over time, market saturation as well. A ricer crotch rocket blows them away. Don't like that, go Italian. Want a cruiser, BMW. 

I was amazed at how many Harleys I saw in Germany last year. Harley's are a wonderful niche machine, sort of time machine too. But for years they've made more profit off the clothes and such than the bikes. 

And don't forget, one of Harley's toughest competitors is the used market. Maybe not the AMF POSs, but there are a lot of excellent used Harleys out there. And as the owners get too old, and or die, they will come to market. My father is in his mid-80s, and refuses to sell his, but it's just a matter of time, and their are many, many, people in that situation. And what do my kids want, electric scooters and bikes. I couldn't give them a Harley.

Personally love the sound of an internal combustion motor. Partial to F-4s, tube amps, single coil pickups, and my guitars cost far more than they should because they are made in the USA. I might have spent have my life in high tech, but love the feel of old school. 

John,

I am definitely ‘old school’ as well. I understand that the big air cooled Harley V-twins ate a niche bike, have, at present, a huge following globally, and that these bikes are the ‘core’ of HD. Furthermore, you brought up an excellent point that people tend to keep their Harley’s ‘forever’ as opposed to the sportbike/naked crowd that change bikes every 5 years or so to keep up with the technological innovation and advances in power that continually occurs with these type of bikes.

That said, I ride a 2012 Nightrod Special. This model of bike (the V-Rods) were discontinued last year. These bikes were liquid cooled, high compression bikes with an engine co-developed by Porsche and were getting much more power out of a 1250cc Revolution motor than they are now getting out of the huge M8 motors. Granted, these bikes are built on a double wishbone dragbike frame and handle like a supertanker (you either love them or you don’t).

My point is that Harley could have easily utilized the Revolution engine technology to make say 750cc to 1000cc motors, mated these motors to the frames and suspensions developed in the Buell Harley’s and had a product that would have appealed to younger riders. Traction control, engine mapping and adjustable suspension should also have been considered.

Would these bikes have competed performance-wise with the Japanese, Italian or German naked? Not a chance, BUT it would have created a niche product for younger folks wanting a Harley.

I’m 59, my Nightrod is 7 years old and I have no plans to get rid of it!😂

That new Indian FTR1200S flat tracker would look good under my Christmas tree though....

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11 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

That new Indian FTR1200S flat tracker would look good under my Christmas tree though....

A work buddy just unloaded his Indian, swapped it for a BMW. 

He loved the idea and look of the Indian, but this isn't just a hobby bike, he's commuting around 100 miles a day. Beemer is just a superior bike in weather. So after six or so months with the Indian he gave up on and went with the BMW. They are refined bikes, no doubt.

I've seen adverts for a electric HD. I just don't get it. If it doesn't have the rumble, it's not HD to me. But that instant access on-demand torque is probably a blast. 

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