Ethanol, the Perfect Home Remedy for A Saudi Oil Fever

[Guest]

 Or this ?     

# Trump2020

#OILFREE  (like, actually).

Edited September 18, 2019 by Guest

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

ALCOHOL FUEL and David Blume

In 1983, David Blume worked to help produce “Alcohol as Fuel”, a 10-episode how-to series on PBS.  It never fully ran, because a big oil company (donor to PBS) stopped it.

I have David Blume’s gigantic book /manual, “Alcohol Can Be a Gas”.  http://www.permaculture.com/node/181  “Blume Distillation” has a great 2 minute video on their Home Page.  https://www.blumedistillation.com/

LISTEN TO THIS!  David Blume( in an older video) - Sanity, alcohol, food, fish, etc.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR-C_bcEGf4&feature=youtu.be&t=1h15m8s

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

12 hours ago, PE Scott said:

If true, that would torpedo his credibility, absolutely.

I'll look into these issues as I have more time. I've admittedly been against ethanol mainly from an efficiency standpoint and because, to me, it felt like taking the potential to feed someone and instead using it for fuel that was easily sourced else where. Especially with the frac revolution and the exponential increase in U.S. production. Maybe these feelings are ungrounded.

I appreciate all your due diligence and research in the subject though and I will take a second look at it as you've made me curious. I'll even try to get around to reading your book between stages or while waiting on wire line to run in the hole. 

Also, on the subject of credibility, it would be good to cite articles besides, or at least in addition to, ones you've authored. I know your articles and books are cited too, but I think it lends more weight to your position when you back it up with other industry experts in your postings as well . Just my 2 cents. 

Lastly, I respect your efforts here. You probably couldn't find a tougher crowd. I'll give you credit for being passionate about your position, even if I'm skeptical. 

Thanks for the feedback. My book contains extensive links to outside sources plus links to many videos. The articles that I link to on Oilprice.com typically also contain links to the outside sources.

[Guest]

Just sayin ... 

 

[SERWIN + 749]

So the way I understand it, Ethanol has been around since at least the 80's, Brazil has had it for at least that long. The automotive mfg have had the tech to make cars that will burn either for decades before it was "mandated" here. As I understand it, they were offered options at the pump, like ethanol or straight gasoline. The gasoline gives better mileage while the ethanol actually produces more power, and the prices for each reflected the difference. I actually have an E85 capable vehicle, but I have never tried using that in it, the closest gas station that I know of that has E85 is about ten miles of god awful traffic to get to, so why on earth would I want to do that? I also have a Suburban, so the mileage on gasoline averages around sixteen MPG, I cant even imagine getting less than that. And the thing is so heavy I doubt I would notice the slight increase in power anyway.

My Mustang wasn't "set up" far the E85, I don't know why when Ford offered it on just about everything else they made in 2012, so I wonder if they have to use some special fuel lines or something that would have added weight. The drive was so intense to reduce weight that they were working on ounces and grams in the attempt to reduce weight. I will tell you this, they should have relented on a couple of items and just added the weight instead of "going light". I did, however, average around 31/32 MPG on the highway, when I wasn't doing some ridiculously illegal speed.... that was after I got rid of those god awful LRR tires and put some on that would actually give the rear end grip in a corner. i actually did better without them than with, and the traction sucked so bad with them on that I had to be careful going around a corner on a wet road. Spin spin spin with LRR's on. I got a better ride and better economy with the touring tires, and a LOT better traction. However I digress. If the cost of E85 is low enough that it wouldn't make a difference in the cost of keeping the tank full then it would make sense to go with the lower polluting fuel, but as i have nothing to compare to. I really think that the oil companies are resisting the push, probably because they didn't see the writing on the wall and get in on the alcohol mfg side early enough to make the profits they do with gasoline.....

I really do wonder what the difference needs to be for a car that had to use E10 vs being capable of using E85, every car made after the mandate had to burn the E10, so how far of a stretch is it to go full blown E85?

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

7 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Nevermind mate, jeez.

If you don't get my point then forget it.

''One of those items''.    Brilliant.     Just amazing seriously.

'' I have an argument for 1 item out of like 150''.      You bothered replying to it.

Incredible stuff. 

 

Also can people quote a small area please instead of entire posts. Cheers. 

No no no I was simply stating that some of the items in the list have such huge demand that it only adds to the point you were making. 

[Tom Blazek + 38]

I drive Flex Fuel Vehicles and use E-85 when I can find it where I drive.

I like the reliability Flex Fuel Vehicles provide, whether its Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, broken pipelines or Wars in the Middle East, I can use gasoline or ethanol to get where I need to go. That’s important to me.

After all the Billions Saudi Arabia has supposedly spent on security, it seems they were caught by surprise. An act of War for sure, but what’s the lesson here?

If we think the Middle East Oil Supplies are Safe, we delude ourselves.

For the last several years we have been reducing our U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve. We didn’t think we needed so much anymore. Perhaps we should be filling it to the max, but we delude ourselves thinking all is well.

Mine a few tankers,

Hijack a few tankers,

Shoot down a U.S. Drown

Hobble half of Saudi Oil Production with missiles and drowns in a single attack, from another country?

We’re trying to keep a lid on a boiling pot, saying what me worry?

How long will we delude ourselves?

 

Trump has the right idea, we need to get as self-sufficient as we can be, I fear we’re going to need it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

No no no I was simply stating that some of the items in the list have such huge demand that it only adds to the point you were making. 

My sincere apologies KW. I had been up for 27 hours at the time. I read it as a dig. Sorry man. Glad you agree with the treehugger hypocrisy  

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

11 hours ago, DayTrader said:

My sincere apologies KW. I had been up for 27 hours at the time. I read it as a dig. Sorry man. Glad you agree with the treehugger hypocrisy  

No problem. Admittedly I was quite confused, thinking "wait, did I miss the point of his post?" 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

Henry Ford made his vehicles able to run on alcohol.  Ford writes about it often.  Remember, there was no real infrastructure for fuel depots.  It is no mistake that Rockefeller helped to finance the cause for prohibition.  David Blume (mentioned in my above comment) talks about this repeatedly.  

"How Big Oil Conquered the World"  VIDEO  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySnk-f2ThpE

Edited September 19, 2019 by Tom Nolan

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

17 hours ago, SERWIN said:

If the cost of E85 is low enough that it wouldn't make a difference in the cost of keeping the tank full then it would make sense to go with the lower polluting fuel, but as i have nothing to compare to. I really think that the oil companies are resisting the push, probably because they didn't see the writing on the wall and get in on the alcohol mfg side early enough to make the profits they do with gasoline.....

I really do wonder what the difference needs to be for a car that had to use E10 vs being capable of using E85, every car made after the mandate had to burn the E10, so how far of a stretch is it to go full blown E85?

David Blume talks about costs of making alcohol fuel.  For example, an acre of cattails grown on sewage sludge might produce close to 10,000 gallons. 

Most newer cars now which are not Flex Fuel can run on about 50% alcohol.  Blume discusses methods of converting a car to run on a higher percentage.

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

On 9/17/2019 at 8:39 PM, Marc J. Rauch said:

I've done the math, and David Blume has done the math, and lots of others have done the math. This is laid out in my 641-page book that you can read online for free. Find the book at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html then go to pages 597- 599. Go to the paragraph that begins with "Land Ho...Ha, Ha, Ha."

Keep in mind that this only refers to corn being used for ethanol. So, when you consider other crops that can be used, from sorghum to sugar cane to sugar beets to Jerusalem artichokes to buffalo gourds to seaweed, We could easily produce enough ethanol to replace all petroleum oil fuels, plus all other items made from oil, such as plastics and rubbers.

You can feed your steers wet or dry distillers grains, all without it impacting on the volume of ethanol production.

Marc Rauch is spot on.

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

On 9/18/2019 at 2:54 PM, SERWIN said:

So the way I understand it, Ethanol has been around since at least the 80's, Brazil has had it for at least that long. The automotive mfg have had the tech to make cars that will burn either for decades before it was "mandated" here. As I understand it, they were offered options at the pump, like ethanol or straight gasoline. The gasoline gives better mileage while the ethanol actually produces more power, and the prices for each reflected the difference. I actually have an E85 capable vehicle, but I have never tried using that in it, the closest gas station that I know of that has E85 is about ten miles of god awful traffic to get to, so why on earth would I want to do that? I also have a Suburban, so the mileage on gasoline averages around sixteen MPG, I cant even imagine getting less than that. And the thing is so heavy I doubt I would notice the slight increase in power anyway.

My Mustang wasn't "set up" far the E85, I don't know why when Ford offered it on just about everything else they made in 2012, so I wonder if they have to use some special fuel lines or something that would have added weight. The drive was so intense to reduce weight that they were working on ounces and grams in the attempt to reduce weight. I will tell you this, they should have relented on a couple of items and just added the weight instead of "going light". I did, however, average around 31/32 MPG on the highway, when I wasn't doing some ridiculously illegal speed.... that was after I got rid of those god awful LRR tires and put some on that would actually give the rear end grip in a corner. i actually did better without them than with, and the traction sucked so bad with them on that I had to be careful going around a corner on a wet road. Spin spin spin with LRR's on. I got a better ride and better economy with the touring tires, and a LOT better traction. However I digress. If the cost of E85 is low enough that it wouldn't make a difference in the cost of keeping the tank full then it would make sense to go with the lower polluting fuel, but as i have nothing to compare to. I really think that the oil companies are resisting the push, probably because they didn't see the writing on the wall and get in on the alcohol mfg side early enough to make the profits they do with gasoline.....

I really do wonder what the difference needs to be for a car that had to use E10 vs being capable of using E85, every car made after the mandate had to burn the E10, so how far of a stretch is it to go full blown E85?

Ethanol has been used as engine fuel since the 1820's - it was the fuel used in the very first internal combustion engine. It was then used in the first automobile (built by Otto). It was the fuel used in Henry Ford's first vehicle the quadricycle. It was preferred by auto racers in Europe. It was used throughout Europe. From the 1920's to the 1970's it was sold in Britain as "power alcohol." Standard Oil and Cities Service sold it for 60 years, and they sold it as being superior to all other gasoline. Ethanol has been used in Brazil since 1919, They've mandated E15 and above since 1978.

All Fords are made the same, flex fuel and non-flex fuel. The difference is the onboard computer software program. Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubbers, plastics, and metals than gasoline and aromatics.

Thanks for your post, which has allowed me to respond. Oh, yeah, and if you'd like a lot more info about ethanol you can read my 641-page book for free online at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html. I hear it's Day Trader's favorite book, he can't get it out of his head.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Marc J. Rauch

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

7 hours ago, Marc J. Rauch said:

Ethanol has been used as engine fuel since the 1820's - it was the fuel used in the very first internal combustion engine. It was then used in the first automobile (built by Otto). It was the fuel used in Henry Ford's first vehicle the quadricycle. It was preferred by auto racers in Europe. It was used throughout Europe. From the 1920's to the 1970's it was sold in Britain as "power alcohol." Standard Oil and Cities Service sold it for 60 years, and they sold it as being superior to all other gasoline. Ethanol has been used in Brazil since 1919, They've mandated E15 and above since 1978.

All Fords are made the same, flex fuel and non-flex fuel. The difference is the onboard computer software program. Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubbers, plastics, and metals than gasoline and aromatics.

Thanks for your post, which has allowed me to respond. Oh, yeah, and if you'd like a lot more info about ethanol you can read my 641-page book for free online at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html.

Marc really is onto something.  Alcohol fuel could change the face of American Agriculture and the body health of our population.

[SERWIN + 749]

10 hours ago, Marc J. Rauch said:

Ethanol has been used as engine fuel since the 1820's - it was the fuel used in the very first internal combustion engine. It was then used in the first automobile (built by Otto). It was the fuel used in Henry Ford's first vehicle the quadricycle. It was preferred by auto racers in Europe. It was used throughout Europe. From the 1920's to the 1970's it was sold in Britain as "power alcohol." Standard Oil and Cities Service sold it for 60 years, and they sold it as being superior to all other gasoline. Ethanol has been used in Brazil since 1919, They've mandated E15 and above since 1978.

All Fords are made the same, flex fuel and non-flex fuel. The difference is the onboard computer software program. Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubbers, plastics, and metals than gasoline and aromatics.

Thanks for your post, which has allowed me to respond. Oh, yeah, and if you'd like a lot more info about ethanol you can read my 641-page book for free online at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html. I hear it's Day Trader's favorite book, he can't get it out of his head.

So basically when you put E85 the computer recognizes the difference in the result of the burn through the sensors and immediately makes adjustments to the fuel system to compensate?

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

7 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

So basically when you put E85 the computer recognizes the difference in the result of the burn through the sensors and immediately makes adjustments to the fuel system to compensate?

Yes, it makes some adjustments, but an E85 flex-fuel vehicles is still not optimized to run on ethanol. Therefore, when using E85 it doesn't typically get as good mpg as E10 or E0.

[SERWIN + 749]

2 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

Marc really is onto something.  Alcohol fuel could change the face of American Agriculture and the body health of our population.

I know ethanol has been around for a long time, just not mainstream fuel for everyday drivers until it was mandated. Just like bio-diesel was what the original diesel engine was designed to run on. can you imagine what our planet would be like today had the oil companies not forced gasoline and diesel onto everyone? We would have never had leaded gasoline spewing toxins onto everything for decades, and the toxins that come from the black smoke billowing trucks all over the planet..... 

[Guest]

Yep. Great 'remedy'.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_for_environment

It's Final -- Corn Ethanol Is Of No Use

 

Study Finds Biofuels Worse for Climate than Gasoline

 

New Study Finds That Even the Good Kind of Ethanol is Terrible

 

Corn Ethanol: Bad for Farmers, Consumers and the Environment

 

Trump to allow use of ethanol gas in move to benefit farmers

 

https://www.catf.us/2018/07/epa-report-environmental-impacts-biofuels/

 

Ethanol in gasoline — an environmental and economic problem

 

Issues relating to biofuels

 

https://www.popsci.com/corn-ethanol-smog/

 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ethanol-environment-damage/

 

Ethanol Is Terrible for Health and the Environment, but Government Keeps Backing It | Craig Eyermann

 

Ethanol Is Bad Science And Bad Policy

 

http://joannenova.com.au/2012/07/sugar-cane-ethanol-biofuel-produces-10-times-the-pollution-of-gasoline-and-diesel/

 

Corn Ethanol: Another Bad Option For Energy

 

Why Ethanol Is Worse Than Oil as a Fuel Source

 

The Problem With The Ethanol Industry

 

Environmental Impact of Ethanol - Rethink Ethanol

 

Is Ethanol Better or Worse for the Environment? - Environmental Leader

 

Environmental impact overlooked as ethanol production drives grassland loss - IOP Publishing

 

The problem with ethanol in gasoline

 

Problems With Ethanol Fuel in Outdoor Power Equipment | OPE Reviews

 

AP: Environmental impacts of ethanol may outweigh the benefits | StateImpact Pennsylvania

 

The Promise and the Problems of Ethanol - dummies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Guest

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

31 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Yep. Great 'remedy'.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_for_environment

It's Final -- Corn Ethanol Is Of No Use

 

Study Finds Biofuels Worse for Climate than Gasoline

 

New Study Finds That Even the Good Kind of Ethanol is Terrible

 

Corn Ethanol: Bad for Farmers, Consumers and the Environment

 

Trump to allow use of ethanol gas in move to benefit farmers

 

https://www.catf.us/2018/07/epa-report-environmental-impacts-biofuels/

 

Ethanol in gasoline — an environmental and economic problem

 

Issues relating to biofuels

 

https://www.popsci.com/corn-ethanol-smog/

 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ethanol-environment-damage/

 

Ethanol Is Terrible for Health and the Environment, but Government Keeps Backing It | Craig Eyermann

 

Ethanol Is Bad Science And Bad Policy

 

http://joannenova.com.au/2012/07/sugar-cane-ethanol-biofuel-produces-10-times-the-pollution-of-gasoline-and-diesel/

 

Corn Ethanol: Another Bad Option For Energy

 

Why Ethanol Is Worse Than Oil as a Fuel Source

 

The Problem With The Ethanol Industry

 

Environmental Impact of Ethanol - Rethink Ethanol

 

Is Ethanol Better or Worse for the Environment? - Environmental Leader

 

Environmental impact overlooked as ethanol production drives grassland loss - IOP Publishing

 

The problem with ethanol in gasoline

 

Problems With Ethanol Fuel in Outdoor Power Equipment | OPE Reviews

 

AP: Environmental impacts of ethanol may outweigh the benefits | StateImpact Pennsylvania

 

The Promise and the Problems of Ethanol - dummies

 

 

Management wishes to thank Day Trader for this sobering list of references to the problems others have found as respects widespread use of alcohols as a motor fuel.  It will take some time for our Readers to digest, I am sure. 

From my point of view, growing Cattails in sewage sludge ponds to yield a crop of 10,000 gallons per acre is interesting, purely from a capitalist viewpoint.  I would note that dairy farmers typically have these "sludge ponds" to hold manure in liquid and semi-solid form,  which manure pits fill up during the Winter season when the usual manure remedy for surplus material, spreading on the farm fields, is not available.  Making a valuable product out of manure is very much to my taste!  [And don't you guys even think about doing some meme on that comment!] 

     It is my view that alcohol has two prongs to advantage it:  (1)  it reduces dependence on imported oils, to the extent that the using country is also importing oils;  (2)  the blending of alcohols acts as an octane boost and thus conditions fuels, without adding to urban smog problems, and the previous problems found with tetraethyl lead and also MTBE additives. 

     It is also my view that the better feedstock for an ethanol distillery would be sugar-cane stalks, which currently are discarded and burnt for heat in the producing countries.  The largest obstacle to that source is the political stalemate with Cuba, the longest Communist country in the Western hemisphere. And that is unfortunate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

 

I like the list. Thanks for posting it and for helping to promote my 641-page book "THE ETHANOL PAPERS." It does respond to all of these items with factual information. And just in case I haven't already mentioned it, the book is available to read online for free at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html .

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

Yep. Great 'remedy'.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/the_case_against_ethanol_bad_for_environment

It's Final -- Corn Ethanol Is Of No Use

 

Study Finds Biofuels Worse for Climate than Gasoline

 

New Study Finds That Even the Good Kind of Ethanol is Terrible

 

Corn Ethanol: Bad for Farmers, Consumers and the Environment

 

Trump to allow use of ethanol gas in move to benefit farmers

 

https://www.catf.us/2018/07/epa-report-environmental-impacts-biofuels/

 

Ethanol in gasoline — an environmental and economic problem

 

Issues relating to biofuels

 

https://www.popsci.com/corn-ethanol-smog/

 

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ethanol-environment-damage/

 

Ethanol Is Terrible for Health and the Environment, but Government Keeps Backing It | Craig Eyermann

 

Ethanol Is Bad Science And Bad Policy

 

http://joannenova.com.au/2012/07/sugar-cane-ethanol-biofuel-produces-10-times-the-pollution-of-gasoline-and-diesel/

 

Corn Ethanol: Another Bad Option For Energy

 

Why Ethanol Is Worse Than Oil as a Fuel Source

 

The Problem With The Ethanol Industry

 

Environmental Impact of Ethanol - Rethink Ethanol

 

Is Ethanol Better or Worse for the Environment? - Environmental Leader

 

Environmental impact overlooked as ethanol production drives grassland loss - IOP Publishing

 

The problem with ethanol in gasoline

 

Problems With Ethanol Fuel in Outdoor Power Equipment | OPE Reviews

 

AP: Environmental impacts of ethanol may outweigh the benefits | StateImpact Pennsylvania

 

The Promise and the Problems of Ethanol - dummies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like the list. Thanks for posting it and for helping to promote my 641-page book "THE ETHANOL PAPERS." It does respond to all of these items with factual information. And just in case I haven't already mentioned it, the book is available to read online for free at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html .

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

On 9/18/2019 at 12:22 PM, Marc J. Rauch said:

Thanks for the feedback. My book contains extensive links to outside sources plus links to many videos. The articles that I link to on

Waving a wand and saying one is magically going to produce 14Mbb oil equivalent a day from ethanol does not reality make. 

Might want to write a "book" on how to do that before writing a "book" on ethanol.  Just FYI

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

17 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Waving a wand and saying one is magically going to produce 14Mbb oil equivalent a day from ethanol does not reality make. 

Might want to write a "book" on how to do that before writing a "book" on ethanol.  Just FYI

Why would you equate all the work it takes to grow crops as waving a magic wand. If you think it's possible then you should write the book. In fact, I promise to buy a copy.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

21 minutes ago, Marc J. Rauch said:

Why would you equate all the work it takes to grow crops as waving a magic wand. If you think it's possible then you should write the book. In fact, I promise to buy a copy.

One day, hopefully soon, you will decide to put your brain where your mouth is and actually do the math by look up the numbers to see if it is possible. 

HINT: It is not. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Marc J. Rauch + 53]

4 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

One day, hopefully soon, you will decide to put your brain where your mouth is and actually do the math by look up the numbers to see if it is possible. 

HINT: It is not. 

Pages 597 to 599 of my book show that it is possible, and just with corn. When you factor in other crops that have annual higher ethanol yields per acre it's almost like waving a magic wand, but of course there's an enormous amount of work that has to go into the production, plus people like you who are spreading lies about ethanol have to stop and get out of the way.

If you think you found some information that show me to me wrong, present it. Don't insinuate it. What you and the others are doing is trying to pretend that you know something about this issue, but you don't. Sorry that's not the right way to say it...You know a lot about the issue, however what you know is wrong.

I look forward to your next attempt.