Marc J. Rauch

Ethanol, the Perfect Home Remedy for A Saudi Oil Fever

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(edited)

I would be curious about some of the other resources that go into growing and processing that much crop, of whatever type, to produce ethanol. Most importantly, coming from a position of almost total ignorance, would be water and land usage in my mind, not to mention the displacement of other crops for food or feed. I know, I know, frac operations use a lot of water too, but I suspect agriculture uses more and requires it be a lot cleaner than the stuff that's often pumped for frac operations. Again though. I can't support this with figures and it's just a hunch. Also, and I haven't looked at your figures yet or read your book @Marc J. Rauch, but wouldn't this take up a lot of real estate? How much of this cropland could be used to grow food, graze livestock, etc? What are the opportunity costs?

 

To me, I always thought it was very odd to grow food so we could burn it in our cars all while starvation is, globally, still a pretty big issue. Especially considering we are sitting on abundant amounts of oil and natural gas that could be used instead. Also, I've run E-85 in my truck only to stop to fill up again in half the distance I would have traveled on regular gasoline. Maybe 2/3 the distance to be fair. That's just science,

"One US gallon of gasoline contains 114,000 BTU of energy; depending on the time of year, and depending on what is in the gasoline. ... It takes one and a half US gallons of ethanol to equal the energy in one US gallon of gasoline; the reason... because ethanol only has 76,100 BTU's of energy per gallon." - I googled it for accuracy

 

So, not that you're suggesting we completely replace gasoline, but for every incremental decrease in gasoline concentration, there would need to be an even larger increase in ethanol use to offset it. This to me seems like it could be problematic as it would mean transporting even greater volumes of fuel to market and all the associated inefficiency that goes along with that.

I by no means am an expert and haven't read your book or done a lot of research in this area, but these are the things that come to mind right away when I consider this. Perhaps you've already addressed this elsewhere. 

Besides relieving some of the oil & gas demand, what is the real benefit to ethanol? I understand, in theory, it's less carbon intensive as the crops pull CO2 from the air before being processed and burned to produce CO2, but are there any other notable reasons to push for ethanol? 

I'll be honest, your claims and cited evidence in support of the safety of ethanol are in contradiction to my experience with it in lawn equipment, generators, and dirt bikes. Even at E15 mixes, in all those smaller engines I've seen it destroy rubber seals and fuel lines, gum up in carburetors, and just generally provide less power and efficiency than regular 100% unleaded gasoline. I suspect that is where most of the anti-ethanol evidence is produced. Also, in the interest of transparency, I've never had an issue with it in any of my cars. So, take that for what you will.

Edited by PE Scott

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Actually, after reading again, you are suggesting we replace the entirety of oil consumption with ethanol. It doesn't seem reasonable to me. I just don't see why it would make sense to do it. Perhaps to curtail some demand for foreign oil, but as a complete replacement it just seems illogical to me.

Again, not an expert, but doesn't a lot of the fertilizer for these crops come as a product of the oil and gas industry too? I'm going to have to do some research to try to understand your position I think @Marc J. Rauch

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1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Ok.. after looking around I've found the following:

 If the entirety of United States corn was used to produce ethanol, it would only displace 25% of gasoline consumption (a figure quite similar to the one I calculated in my free time a while back). If we throw in all other crops capable of producing fuel, I'm not sure if we'd even reach 100%. Furthermore, this is obviously a ridiculous scenario since we need the majority of our crops for food related use. Are you suggesting that we significantly increase arable land and corn yields nationwide? Perhaps a massive desalination project and the deserts to the west would suffice lol. 

 

 

It appears that you didn't check out the information in my book, which does show that we could grow enough corn for ethanol to replace gasoline. But the most important part of this is that it refers only to corn, not other crops.

Sorghum can provide almost twice as much ethanol per acre, per year than corn. Beets about three times more than corn. Sugar can four times more than corn. Cattails nearly six times more than corn. Buffalo gourds six times more, agave five times more, salt water seaweed 100 times more ethanol per acre, per yea - and buffalo gourds and.agave require very little water, while seaweed requires none.

You say, "after looking around I've found the following..." What's the source of your information.

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39 minutes ago, PE Scott said:

Actually, after reading again, you are suggesting we replace the entirety of oil consumption with ethanol. It doesn't seem reasonable to me. I just don't see why it would make sense to do it. Perhaps to curtail some demand for foreign oil, but as a complete replacement it just seems illogical to me.

Again, not an expert, but doesn't a lot of the fertilizer for these crops come as a product of the oil and gas industry too? I'm going to have to do some research to try to understand your position I think @Marc J. Rauch

Research is exactly what you should do. And you can either start or finish with my 641-page book, which covers every aspect of ethanol fuel. You can read the book online for free at https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/10/12/632678-ethanol-papers-massive-book-provides-whole-story-ethanol-fuel-free.html.

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51 minutes ago, PE Scott said:

I would be curious about some of the other resources that go into growing and processing that much crop, of whatever type, to produce ethanol. Most importantly, coming from a position of almost total ignorance, would be water and land usage in my mind, not to mention the displacement of other crops for food or feed. I know, I know, frac operations use a lot of water too, but I suspect agriculture uses more and requires it be a lot cleaner than the stuff that's often pumped for frac operations. Again though. I can't support this with figures and it's just a hunch. Also, and I haven't looked at your figures yet or read your book @Marc J. Rauch, but wouldn't this take up a lot of real estate? How much of this cropland could be used to grow food, graze livestock, etc? What are the opportunity costs?

 

To me, I always thought it was very odd to grow food so we could burn it in our cars all while starvation is, globally, still a pretty big issue. Especially considering we are sitting on abundant amounts of oil and natural gas that could be used instead. Also, I've run E-85 in my truck only to stop to fill up again in half the distance I would have traveled on regular gasoline. Maybe 2/3 the distance to be fair. That's just science,

"One US gallon of gasoline contains 114,000 BTU of energy; depending on the time of year, and depending on what is in the gasoline. ... It takes one and a half US gallons of ethanol to equal the energy in one US gallon of gasoline; the reason... because ethanol only has 76,100 BTU's of energy per gallon." - I googled it for accuracy

 

So, not that you're suggesting we completely replace gasoline, but for every incremental decrease in gasoline concentration, there would need to be an even larger increase in ethanol use to offset it. This to me seems like it could be problematic as it would mean transporting even greater volumes of fuel to market and all the associated inefficiency that goes along with that.

I by no means am an expert and haven't read your book or done a lot of research in this area, but these are the things that come to mind right away when I consider this. Perhaps you've already addressed this elsewhere. 

Besides relieving some of the oil & gas demand, what is the real benefit to ethanol? I understand, in theory, it's less carbon intensive as the crops pull CO2 from the air before being processed and burned to produce CO2, but are there any other notable reasons to push for ethanol? 

I'll be honest, your claims and cited evidence in support of the safety of ethanol are in contradiction to my experience with it in lawn equipment, generators, and dirt bikes. Even at E15 mixes, in all those smaller engines I've seen it destroy rubber seals and fuel lines, gum up in carburetors, and just generally provide less power and efficiency than regular 100% unleaded gasoline. I suspect that is where most of the anti-ethanol evidence is produced. Also, in the interest of transparency, I've never had an issue with it in any of my cars. So, take that for what you will.

You write, "Even at E15 mixes, in all those smaller engines I've seen it destroy rubber seals and fuel lines, gum up in carburetors, and just generally provide less power and efficiency than regular 100% unleaded gasoline. I suspect that is where most of the anti-ethanol evidence is produced."

Ethanol is compatible with more types of rubbers, plastics, and metals than gasoline and aromatics. This information is shown in several chemical comparison charts that are in my book. If you're seen corroded seals and fuel lines, it's more likely to be because of gasoline and aromatics. Ethanol burns clean. The gum/gunk/sludge - whatever you want to call it - comes from gasoline. Gasoline detergents and aftermarket engine treatment products to address the gum/gunk/sludge problem were all available and used for many, many years before the regular use of E10 in America.

Your personal experience, and lack of problems with ethanol-gasoline blends should tell you all you need to now. In addition to my book, which is now almost a year old, you should take a look at these two recent stories I published:

Famous Manufacturer of Anti-Ethanol Additives Proves Ethanol's Safety and Benefits - https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2019/08/10/677743-is-it-is-or-is-it-ain-t-famous-manufacturer.html

Automotive Aftermarket Saturated with Snake Oil Engine Additives - https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2019/08/16/680489-automotive-aftermarket-saturated-with-snake-oil-engine-additives.html

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10 minutes ago, Marc J. Rauch said:

Research is exactly what you should do. And you can either start or finish with my 641-page book

I'll try to get around to that 641 pages sometime in the interest of exploring all positions on the subject.

In response to my experience with ethanol blends in small motors: when I run straight gasoline, I don't have any of the aforementioned issues. So, in my limited experience, that seems to point to the ethanol blends as the culprit. I have no doubt the research your pointing to is accurate and maybe there are different seals and compounds being used in cars that are more compatible with ethanol than what I have on a lawn mower or dirt bike.  

That's pretty small potatoes though and hardly the heart of the issue. I just thought it worth mentioning as I can speak to having difficulty with ethanol blends in those types of engines and would point to that as why many people have issue with ethanol or where they might have had an adverse experience. 

I seem to remember J Leno being pretty adamantly against ethanol blends, and I think he's a pretty reasonable authority on cars too. I'll have to go back and see what he had to say on the issue, but I don't think the arguments against it are as baseless as you're making them out to be.

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(edited)

13 hours ago, PE Scott said:

I'll try to get around to that 641 pages sometime in the interest of exploring all positions on the subject.

In response to my experience with ethanol blends in small motors: when I run straight gasoline, I don't have any of the aforementioned issues. So, in my limited experience, that seems to point to the ethanol blends as the culprit. I have no doubt the research your pointing to is accurate and maybe there are different seals and compounds being used in cars that are more compatible with ethanol than what I have on a lawn mower or dirt bike.  

That's pretty small potatoes though and hardly the heart of the issue. I just thought it worth mentioning as I can speak to having difficulty with ethanol blends in those types of engines and would point to that as why many people have issue with ethanol or where they might have had an adverse experience. 

I seem to remember J Leno being pretty adamantly against ethanol blends, and I think he's a pretty reasonable authority on cars too. I'll have to go back and see what he had to say on the issue, but I don't think the arguments against it are as baseless as you're making them out to be.

The part I think you'll find most interesting in looking at the comparison charts is that ethanol has always been great with all the old, simple materials - it was gasoline and aromatics that were the problem. Ethanol is also very good with newer rubbers like Viton. But it is/was gasoline and aromatics that caused the corrosion issues.

Jay Leno had been a big supporter of ethanol. I have a story about this in my book with a couple of videos. When he left the Tonight Show and started his car TV show he landed an advertiser that sells engine treatment products. Suddenly he was against ethanol. The last two links I posted in my previous reply go to stories about these aftermarket engine treatment products. You should read these stories.

Edited by Marc J. Rauch
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4 minutes ago, Marc J. Rauch said:

Jay Leno had been a big supporter of ethanol. I have a story about this in my book with a couple of videos. When he left the Tonight Show and started his car TV show he landed an advertiser that sells engine treatment products. Suddenly he was against ethanol.

If true, that would torpedo his credibility, absolutely.

I'll look into these issues as I have more time. I've admittedly been against ethanol mainly from an efficiency standpoint and because, to me, it felt like taking the potential to feed someone and instead using it for fuel that was easily sourced else where. Especially with the frac revolution and the exponential increase in U.S. production. Maybe these feelings are ungrounded.

I appreciate all your due diligence and research in the subject though and I will take a second look at it as you've made me curious. I'll even try to get around to reading your book between stages or while waiting on wire line to run in the hole. 

Also, on the subject of credibility, it would be good to cite articles besides, or at least in addition to, ones you've authored. I know your articles and books are cited too, but I think it lends more weight to your position when you back it up with other industry experts in your postings as well . Just my 2 cents. 

Lastly, I respect your efforts here. You probably couldn't find a tougher crowd. I'll give you credit for being passionate about your position, even if I'm skeptical. 

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2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

2020 election looks pretty bleak for the left wing 

l2Mi1B0.thumb.jpg.b065e062c5618cabe29cb1949404bb9f.jpg

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#MAGA

image.png.74401f658c4deb8147cc34a91ecf57c2.png

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1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

#MAGA

image.png.74401f658c4deb8147cc34a91ecf57c2.png

SORRY DT COULDN'T RESIST JACKING YOUR RIDE.

Screen Shot 2019-09-18 at 07.35.16.png

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And the meme rivalry is on.  This could get amusing.  Except for people who dislike memes .... they will prolly just roll their eyes and cringe.  Which makes it even more amusing  : )

 

3ava5b.jpg.b9a880416c69f577c67432bdbc547926.jpg

 

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(edited)

So.... a little perspective ...

 

Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
Upholstery Sweaters  Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
CD Player  Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap 
Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses 
Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste  Gasoline

 

image.png.34c43fcfcc9135c79c6bb4b338515b2f.png

#hypocrite   #amish  

Edited by DayTrader
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9 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

So.... a little perspective ...

 

Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
Upholstery Sweaters  Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
CD Player  Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap 
Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses 
Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste  Gasoline

 

image.png.34c43fcfcc9135c79c6bb4b338515b2f.png

 

3avb1t.jpg.26564bc934e24e32aad73869b17a0923.jpg

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(edited)

16 hours ago, Annette Hunter said:

Ethanol is a farm subsidy. It's no practical solution to energy independence. The real and permanent solution is electric vehicles.

You can pull out every redherring 'what about-ism' in the world. But in the end the numbers work far better than ethanol.

We are 100% self reliant for electrical power. We can choose to be 100% self reliant for battery minerals.
 

I made this exact point yesterday in a personal conversation. When they get solar figured out, game over. It sure has been advancing fast! (EDIT: A big problem with ethanol is demand for cropland, destruction of forests. In a Utopian world, we'd figure out solar. Especially, onsite solar, rooftops, etc., to lessen the need for huge solar farms. I'm all for more trees, trees are good!)

Edited by BillKidd
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1 minute ago, BillKidd said:

I made this exact point yesterday in a personal conversation. When they get solar figured out, game over. It sure has been advancing fast!

There can be no serious debate that "ethanol" is anything other than a "farm subsidy."  Yet, especially for readers here from outside the USA, I pause for a moment to explain why that is.  In the US, alcohol for fuels blending (ethanol, short for ethyl alcohol) is created by the distillation of a major Midwest farm crop:  corn.  Now the problem with corn is that it is a high-volume commodity business.  If the world market for corn, or corn flour, is strong, then the farmers have good cash receipts, and the Midwest is prosperous.  When the farmers  (world scale) over-produce, which for the USA has happened a lot, the over-production has no home, and you see these vast mounds of excess corn piled high on tarps, out in the open.  Sometimes those outside piles will reach sixty feet up.  Now, what are the prospects for that corn?  There are no customers for it, and the storage silos are full, so there is no place to even stockpile the stuff except outside.  Does anyone seriously expect that corn stock to remain unattacked by rodents and the weather?   Of course not.  The farmers will have losses. 

Ironically, having a great crop year can lead to farmer ruin.  A great production will depress prices, and leave crops in those pile, effectively to rot.  If the corn cannot be sold then the farmers' loans for tractors, seed, fuel, and so forth cannot be paid.  Then the Midwest farming community hurts. 

The "government" has taken a number of half-hearted approaches to this problem.  One is to "land bank" some farmland, where it is taken out of production, clover is planted as a soils-rejuvenation crop, and the farmer is paid a subsidy to not plant.  Another is to artificially create a new end-use for that corn.  One end-use is biodegradable plastic; bags made of a corn formulation will degrade in sunlight, so "plastic bags" manufactured of corn starch become a "green" substitute for regular plastic bags.  

But those only nibble at the over-production problem.  As America is a society of huge numbers of automobiles, putting that alcohol into the fuel will suck up vast amounts of that surplus corn, and thus keep the farmers happy, their bankers happy, and rural America reasonably prosperous.  So, the Feds created the "Alcohol fuel mandate," which is technically a renewables fuel mandate, but everybody knows that it really means corn alcohol. 

There are all kinds of problems with this, but remember, Iowa votes early in the Presidential voting, known there as "the caucuses."  A candidate that does not prevail, or run strongly, in Iowa is doomed.  So both political parties hump to it and support the corn farmers of Iowa with this alcohol scheme.  Whether or not it is a good idea or a bad idea is utterly irrelevant: it is a vote-buying idea, and in America, there is nothing stronger than buying votes with Federal Mandates.   So, there you are. 

What happens when technology advances, and electricity becomes the dominant fuel for automobiles?  Well, I predict the politicians will go figure something else out.  Again, that corn will find a home.  Votes depend on it. 

Is the electric car a more logical product?  Of course it is.  And society will move in that direction.  How it does, and how fast it does, is a function of the innovative minds of Americans, the capital available, and various infrastructure costs that will be socialized.  But will that happen?  Of course it will.  Burning oil in auto engines will be a thing of the past, soon enough.  Oil will find other uses. 

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8 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Is the electric car a more logical product?  Of course it is.  And society will move in that direction.  How it does, and how fast it does, is a function of the innovative minds of Americans, the capital available, and various infrastructure costs that will be socialized.  But will that happen?  Of course it will.  Burning oil in auto engines will be a thing of the past, soon enough.  Oil will find other uses.

Some light rebuttal , excuse Englishmans language, we have heard worse.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/20/zero-emissions-construction-digger-runs-out-of-power-in-2-hours-requiring-it-to-be-recharged-using-a-diesel-generator-for-8-hours/

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(edited)

'' big fook off generator ... ''    🤣      you know it's gonna be good just reading the link

Edited by DayTrader
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17 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Some light rebuttal , excuse Englishmans language, we have heard worse.

James, that is not a "rebuttal," that is people doing stupid things.  Furthermore, i said nothing about excavators.  I specified automobiles. 

If you want to run some high-density piece of machinery such as an excavator, then doing so with "shore power," i.e. a cable that can be suspended from hooks overhead, would be the logical approach.  What these people are doing is just stupid.  I don't do stupid.  Cheers.

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39 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

James, that is not a "rebuttal," that is people doing stupid things.  Furthermore, i said nothing about excavators.  I specified automobiles. 

If you want to run some high-density piece of machinery such as an excavator, then doing so with "shore power," i.e. a cable that can be suspended from hooks overhead, would be the logical approach.  What these people are doing is just stupid.  I don't do stupid.  Cheers.

Haha Jan its a building site and the excavator is for in putting infrastructure, pretty obvious (as you rightly pointed out) that there was or wouldn't  be any shore power. It has to come from generator or a big fook off cable ran from the next sub devision or transformer to get the infrastructure in. I found it ironically stupid also. Automobiles, trucks, trams and machinery its all the same power source with same issues to work out, which they will I have no doubt.

(making dove sign with both hands)

Edited by James Regan
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(edited)

41 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

What these people are doing is just stupid.  I don't do stupid.  Cheers.

Jan van Eck, 2019

Edited by DayTrader
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(edited)

10 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

2020 election looks pretty bleak for the left wing 

That debate where Robert Francis shot the democrats in the foot like what, a thousand times with one statement? History in the making there. In 20 years when the Democrats have dwindled and have no useful power they will look back at that statement and say, "geez, we should have immediately disassociated ourselves from him right away". The crap spewing from The Cortez Trio is helping Trump along too. They are obviously racists, just from what they have said about Israel alone. HMMMMMM!!!! I'm loving it that Israel told them they would never be welcomed there either!! Oh wait, only white people are racists.....

Edited by SERWIN
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(edited)

4 hours ago, DayTrader said:

So.... a little perspective ...

 

Solvents Diesel fuel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
Upholstery Sweaters  Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher parts Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
CD Player  Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap 
Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician’s Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses 
Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
Combs CD’s & DVD’s Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste  Gasoline

 

image.png.34c43fcfcc9135c79c6bb4b338515b2f.png

#hypocrite   #amish  

One of those items ensures that we don't starve... and the global demand is far over 100 million tons per year at this point. 

[EDIT] Show me an ethanol route to ammonia. (which is kind of ironic because the ammonia will go back into the soil to create more corn... to create more ethanol lol) 

Edited by KeyboardWarrior
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(edited)

12 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

One of those items ensures that we don't starve... and the global demand is far over 100 million tons per year at this point. 

Nevermind mate, jeez.

If you don't get my point then forget it.

 

Also can people quote a small area please instead of entire posts. Cheers. 

Edited by DayTrader

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(edited)

Here is one that may tell you how I feel about this nonsense ... 

 

image.png.3f3bf82b3cd49a8b7ce401e4fce26edb.png

Edited by DayTrader

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