Experts review drone damage . Say Saudis need to do a lot of explaining.

[Jabbar + 465]

Experts question how attacks were so precise.  They knew exactly what to hit. 

Saudis need to explain 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/17/saudi-arabia-has-to-explain-how-its-oil-assets-in-abqaiq-were-attacked-says-ex-us-diplomat.html

Also, If you overlay GoogleMap on dramatic photo of billowing smoke you will see fire is not in oil processing plant or near complex but in the desert with a few roads and maybe some pipelines.  It is to southeast of the complex. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-15/drone-attack-on-saudi-oil-field-seen-as-pearl-harbor-moment

NEW: The Saudi government now say Anti-Missile Defense Systems were pointed to the South toward Yemen so did not detect incoming over 20 missiles and drones from the north..

U.S. military intelligence  determined first attack a couple of months ago on Saudi pipeline came from the Northeast not from Yemen Houthis in south.

The Saudi government didn't get the memo ? 

You can't make this up. 

Last week the WALLSTREET JOURNAL , FINANCIAL TIMES, BARRONS AND FORBES ALL  had articles with same theme. OPEC was losing the battle to keep oil prices up.  THEN COUPLE DSYS LATER THE ATTACK.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jabbar

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So what are you suggesting? Are you saying that the Saudis blew up their own facility in sone ‘false flag’ conspiracy?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Furthermore, if you’ve been reading this thread you would know that you can buy off the shelf guidance systems for commercially available racing drones and EASILY achieve this level off accuracy!

[4cryingoutloud + 21]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Furthermore, if you’ve been reading this thread you would know that you can buy off the shelf guidance systems for commercially available racing drones and EASILY achieve this level off accuracy!

Have you piloted such commercially available drones, presumably accurate at high speed over very long distance in a harsh environment, and capable of carrying ordnance?  If so, please give the details; manufacturer, model, cost, vendor, etc., for I would like to try such a drone, if possible, for civilian hobby use of course. Myself, I have piloted drones, as a hobby for civilian use, and can say the accuracy alleged is extremely difficult to achieve; but then, my drone was not of the military standard. Unfortunately, I crashed mine into bits and have been absent from this activity for some time now. Still, always good to get caught up again. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I was being facetious. You need to read the earlier posts between myself and others discussing drones.

[4cryingoutloud + 21]

Judging from his writing, Jabber appears not to have English as his first language. If I am wrong, please correct me. Regardless, I think we should cut him some slack and not try to pick apart his texts, nor put words into his mouth. I take his text to mean he has information that, in his mind, casts serious doubts on the narrative and images espoused by the likes of Pompeo [who has admitted publicly he has no scruples and is trained to cheat, lie, steal, and murder]. I thank him for alerting us to what seems to be cause for doubt. 

[Jabbar + 465]

On 9/17/2019 at 9:12 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

I was being facetious. You need to read the earlier posts between myself and others discussing drones.

Saudi got caught with pants down.

The precision with which the attack took place is not possible from that distance. Plus the dramatic manufactured billowing smoke plume in the desert is another clue that Saudis got caught.

Did you notice over 8 tanks that perform separation of the hydroxide sulfur from the oil were hit exactly in the same spot on each one. It was small entry hole that did not destroy the tanks and can be easily repaired.  Then compare that to the towering black smoke rising 1000 meters into sky for effect only. Suspicious ?

Now Saudis changed their tune and did a complete reversal. U.S. will not out Saudis. Trump doesn't want to embarrass MBS. So what is next. 

I predict you will hear latter today something like. 

" The origin of the missiles/drones are somewhere near the Iraq and Iran border.  We don't know if it was sanctioned by Iran leaders, rogue Iranian Republican guard or sympathetic militia in Iraq.  Without definitive origin or specific culprit we can not retaliate at this time. 

Come back tomorrow and let's see if my predictions come to be.

They might produce some drone or missile fragment to give credence to their story.

Saudis save face, Trump saves face and nobody gets bombed.

 

 

 

" 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jabbar

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Jabber, I think you make some really excellent points. 

So does the oil market.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

49 minutes ago, Jabbar said:

Did you notice over 8 tanks that perform separation of the hydroxide sulfur from the oil were hit exactly in the same spot on each one. It was small entry hole that did not destroy the tanks and can be easily repaired.

The tank puncture wounds were uncanny in their spacing.  I offer no conclusions. But, uncanny.

[Jabbar + 465]

18 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The tank puncture wounds were uncanny in their spacing.  I offer no conclusions. But, uncanny.

18 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The tank puncture wounds were uncanny in their spacing.  I offer no conclusions. But, uncanny.

It may have been discussed 

If it traveled the distance described drones would be way out of radio control 

Could pre-program GPS BUT not with that precision. NEVER.

Satellite control would work. U.S. technology would have picked up the satellite signals and recording them and be able to trace the source.

Yesterday I criticized your Pres Trump for saying They are waiting for Saudi Arabia to determine who was responsible.  Was that U.S. way of telling Saudi Arabia the U.S. knows the truth ? For MBS to cut the bull.

LSA wanted to get 3 or 4 months of  U.S. dollar $80 oil. 

[wrs + 893]

So why are the other fires still burning?

Edited September 17, 2019 by wrs

[Justin Hicks + 162]

Something I noticed yesterday while doing some reading, since at least 2009 there have been books and strategic articles published about striking the refinery at its weakest point, the stabilization towers.  It's a wonder this hasn't happened prior.

For the record, I don't believe the Saudi's sabotaged their own facility,I agree the strikes were surgical, designed to do the most damage possible.

Is there an accurate count of drones/ slash missiles that struck the refinery or is it all still speculation? 

20 projectiles seems quite a bit to slip by a defense force, but that also shows the vulnerability of the American patriot battery. May be time to go with Israel's Iron Dome technology.

Anyhow hope everyone stays sane and prayers to my friends working in the area and for Aramco .

 

https://books.google.com/books/about/War_with_Iran.html?id=pTzOsot9OiYC

[Justin Hicks + 162]

By the way @Jan van Eck, seems like a spammer going by Lucas Tosh has run amuck here.. If you would be so kind😊

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, Justin Hicks said:

By the way @Jan van Eck, seems like a spammer going by Lucas Tosh has run amuck here.. If you would be so kind😊

Sorry, Justin, I am not a Moderator.  You need to send a memo to Selvedina or CMOP.  Or Rodent. 

[Justin Hicks + 162]

4 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Sorry, Justin, I am not a Moderator.  You need to send a memo to Selvedina or CMOP.  Or Rodent. 

I'm sorry Jan I thought you were.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, Justin Hicks said:

I'm sorry Jan I thought you were.

Not me.  Depending on whom you ask, I am either:  (1) a Haitian voodoo doll man;  (2) a guy who stuffs himself with Edam cheese;  (3) a Diplomat from the Kingdom of Mars here via Area 51.  Whatever!

[Jabbar + 465]

20 minutes ago, Justin Hicks said:

Something I noticed yesterday while doing some reading, since at least 2009 there have been books and strategic articles published about striking the refinery at its weakest point, the stabilization towers.  It's a wonder this hasn't happened prior.

For the record, I don't believe the Saudi's sabotaged their own facility,I agree the strikes were surgical, designed to do the most damage possible.

Is there an accurate count of drones/ slash missiles that struck the refinery or is it all still speculation? 

20 projectiles seems quite a bit to slip by a defense force, but that also shows the vulnerability of the American patriot battery. May be time to go with Israel's Iron Dome technology.

Anyhow hope everyone stays sane and prayers to my friends working in the area and for Aramco .

 

https://books.google.com/books/about/War_with_Iran.html?id=pTzOsot9OiYC

Two new items

1. U.S. said have proof it was Iran at fault and may reveal at U.N. meeting next week. However, may not because it would "reveal source of intelligence"

2. British Intelligence says they have doubts that Iran initiated attack.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 hour ago, Jabbar said:

20 projectiles seems quite a bit to slip by a defense force, but that also shows the vulnerability of the American patriot battery. May be time to go with Israel's Iron Dome technology.

Need the SkyHunter for low altitude drones. This is all very, very interesting. Somehow I don't see low-flying drones traversing the Persian Gulf to hit these tanks. Could have been the Quds Force helping the Houthis, even from the southern part of KSA. Whatever it was didn't seem to work.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, 4cryingoutloud said:

Unfortunately, I crashed mine into bits

6 hours ago, 4cryingoutloud said:

If so, please give the details; manufacturer, model, cost, vendor, etc., for I would like to try such a drone, if possible,

 

I agree about Jabbar and first language but was so distracted by this haha      

Why would Doug give you makes and models of these military grade things if you are just gonna 'crash it into bits' 

He has saved you money haha. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Justin Hicks said:

I'm sorry Jan I thought you were.

2 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Not me.  Depending on whom you ask, I am either:  (1) a Haitian voodoo doll man;  (2) a guy who stuffs himself with Edam cheese;  (3) a Diplomat from the Kingdom of Mars here via Area 51.  Whatever!

Haha too good.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 hours ago, 4cryingoutloud said:

Judging from his writing, Jabber appears not to have English as his first language. If I am wrong, please correct me. Regardless, I think we should cut him some slack and not try to pick apart his texts, nor put words into his mouth. I take his text to mean he has information that, in his mind, casts serious doubts on the narrative and images espoused by the likes of Pompeo [who has admitted publicly he has no scruples and is trained to cheat, lie, steal, and murder]. I thank him for alerting us to what seems to be cause for doubt. 

Agreed.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Jabbar said:

were hit exactly in the same spot on each one.

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The tank puncture wounds were uncanny in their spacing.  I offer no conclusions. But, uncanny.

Jabbar, you deserve some sort of award. You have stumped Jan. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

It seems to me that for the tanks to get punctured like that, somebody or some group managed to slip in within a short distance, perhaps 40 miles or so, and then launched a series of rockets complete with one of those cameras in the nose and then they were guided to the target with a remote joystick.  If the bandits were all standing at one point and launched at one point then it would explain the similar points of tank entry when looking from the same spot.  Otherwise the whole thing gets just too fuzzy for logical deduction. 

The claim is made that these mini-rockets or drones or whatever they were, cost only $15,000 each.  A figure that low would preclude a longer-range rocket, as the size and weight of fuel and the complexity of control is going to increase substantially as the needed range increases.  All in all, I suggest it points to other factions involved.  Hey, who knows, maybe MBS has enemies.....

[Guest]

forget that Jabbar, the stumping lasted for 3 minutes apparently 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The claim is made that these mini-rockets or drones or whatever they were, cost only $15,000 each.

Who claimed this though?