Let's shut down dissent like The Conversation in Australia

[markslawson + 1,058]

Admittedly this is not strictly renewables but it is about sites like this and about the climate debate which is often used to justify investment in renewables, so I thought I'd share this section of an op-ed issued by The Conversation web site in Australia. This site debates a range of issues, with the articles mainly coming from academics. Climate change features prominently.

"At The Conversation Australia we’ve recently vowed to improve our climate change coverage, and part of that means moderating comments with a similar degree of rigour.

Once upon a time, we might have viewed climate sceptics as merely frustrating. We relied on other commenters and authors to rebut sceptics and deniers, which often lead to endless back and forth.

But it’s 2019, and now we know better. Climate change deniers, and those shamelessly peddling pseudoscience and misinformation, are perpetuating ideas that will ultimately destroy the planet. As a publisher, giving them a voice on our site contributes to a stalled public discourse.

That’s why the editorial team in Australia is implementing a zero-tolerance approach to moderating climate change deniers, and sceptics. Not only will we be removing their comments, we’ll be locking their accounts."

The moderators on this site could do the same thing with those who think that wind and solar power offer a viable alternative to  conventional/fossil fuels despite mounting, even overwhelming, evidence that they are of limited use, depending on the circumstances. But of course they won't and I would be strongly opposed to them doing so if, for some reason, they did. I might strongly disagree with individuals on this site but they do point to matters I have overlooked, in other words contribute to the debate, and I often learn through the arguments. This declaration of The Conversation shows weakness not strength. I might also point out, in passing, that the climate debate is often not about the science but about 30 plus years of failed, often farcical forecasting of doom. This year makes the 30th anniversary of the fist five year warning on climate issued by the UN. (Professor James Hansen made his landmark speech to a congressional committee in 1988. The US issued the five year warning in 1989. The first IPCC report was in 1990.)   

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, markslawson said:

"At The Conversation Australia we’ve recently vowed to improve our climate change coverage, and part of that means moderating comments with a similar degree of rigour.

Once upon a time, we might have viewed climate sceptics as merely frustrating. We relied on other commenters and authors to rebut sceptics and deniers, which often lead to endless back and forth.

But it’s 2019, and now we know better. Climate change deniers, and those shamelessly peddling pseudoscience and misinformation, are perpetuating ideas that will ultimately destroy the planet. As a publisher, giving them a voice on our site contributes to a stalled public discourse.

That’s why the editorial team in Australia is implementing a zero-tolerance approach to moderating climate change deniers, and sceptics. Not only will we be removing their comments, we’ll be locking their accounts."

Dear Editorial Team of "The Conversation Australia"

Screw you and screw your totalitarian censorship of dissent.

Sincerely,

Tom Kirkman

A moderator on the Oil Price forum

Just my opinion; as always, you are free to disagree.

[Guest]

Good old Freedom of Speech.

Welcome to 2019 folks.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

4 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Good old Freedom of Speech.

Welcome to 2019 folks.

Welcome to 99% of history

[PE Scott + 563]

This is really too bad. This just speaks to a confirmation bias that runs unabated in some circles. I'm sure the same is true on both sides of the debate in some groups, but denying the opposition a voice and relying only on the opinions of those that agree with a certain position will ultimately strip them of all credibility. That's the silver lining. 

Fortunately, I think the silent majority recognizes bullshit when they see it. Maybe that's me being overly optimistic though. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Climate change panic is the lowest on the list of concerns for average Americans. Other nations seem to be more vulnerable to propaganda for some reason. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Climate change panic is the lowest on the list of concerns for average Americans. Other nations seem to be more vulnerable to propaganda for some reason. 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Notice the demon eyes, even on this little girl. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

20 hours ago, markslawson said:

This year makes the 30th anniversary of the fist five year warning on climate issued by the UN. (Professor James Hansen made his landmark speech to a congressional committee in 1988. The US issued the five year warning in 1989. The first IPCC report was in 1990.)   

Looking at it objectively, I would have to conclude that the entire "man burns fuel, therefore will destroy the climate!"  idea is the outgrowth of Mr. Hansen  [I shudder to call him Dr.]. and the billions spent in chasing his ideas continue to undermine fiscal stability and social morality.  If you wonder why I say "morality," I would remind you that placing some gigantic windmill propeller a few hundred feet from someone's house and forcing the family to live with the blade tips notching up against the sound barrier, well.....  OK, you try it.  I think Mr. Hansen has done a lot of damage to society. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

20 hours ago, markslawson said:

This year makes the 30th anniversary of the fist five year warning on climate issued by the UN. (Professor James Hansen made his landmark speech to a congressional committee in 1988. The US issued the five year warning in 1989. The first IPCC report was in 1990.)   

 

3 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Looking at it objectively, I would have to conclude that the entire "man burns fuel, therefore will destroy the climate!"  idea is the outgrowth of Mr. Hansen  [I shudder to call him Dr.]. and the billions spent in chasing his ideas continue to undermine fiscal stability and social morality.  If you wonder why I say "morality," I would remind you that placing some gigantic windmill propeller a few hundred feet from someone's house and forcing the family to live with the blade tips notching up against the sound barrier, well.....  OK, you try it.  I think Mr. Hansen has done a lot of damage to society. 

 

Try going back earlier.

1922, global warming:

 

Then global cooling in 1972

 

And back to global warming again.  I mean Climate Panic, because nobody can seem to agree if the world will boil or freeze.  But don't worry, because the Science is settled, and it is verbotten to question Settled Science.

Climate Heresy is HATE SPEECH, dammit!

Put your left foot in
Your left foot out
Your left foot in
And shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
And turn yourself around

Let's do the hokey pokey!
Let's do the hokey pokey!
Let's do the hokey pokey!
That's what it's all about

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

I looked through some of the articles in that electronic magazine "Conversation Australia" and they struck me as thoughtful.  The article on the Australian Drought was interesting.  It is unfortunate that the managing editor turns out to be so ridiculous.  My guess is that he was frustrated by the constant back-and-forth that this subject (climate change, a/k/a "man-made global warming"]  tends to create, so decided to just be authoritarian about it.  Not exactly a great posture for the Editor of what is supposed to be an intellectual forum, now is it?   Oh, well. 

[James Regan + 1,776]

“Global warming” refers to the global-average temperature increase that has been observed over the last one hundred years or more. But to many politicians and the public, the term carries the implication that mankind is responsible for that warming. This website describes evidence from my group’s government-funded research that suggests global warming is mostly natural, and that the climate system is quite insensitive to humanity’s greenhouse gas emissions and aerosol pollution.

Very interesting site, I stumbled across, is anyone familiar with Dr Roy W. Spencer?

He received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981. Before becoming a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville in 2001, he was a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/global-warming-natural-or-manmade/

Edited September 19, 2019 by James Regan

[markslawson + 1,058]

17 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

I looked through some of the articles in that electronic magazine "Conversation Australia" and they struck me as thoughtful.  The article on the Australian Drought was interesting.

Oh yes - there can be quite good, academic stuff on the site. Latest developments in astronomy and so on. But as you say the editor has tainted the site. If he had been frustrated by the back and forth, what he should have done is simply ban comments on climate articles, which I might have even supported. There are lunatics on both sides. But instead he did this and condemned his site to irrelevance. 

 

33 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Try going back earlier.

1922, global warming:

and James Regan … all good stuff. But I tend to date these things from the modern wave of climate doom-saying which basically started with Hansen and the UN. Before then it was much easier to ignore.. come to think of it the era might have started with The Population Bomb book in the 1960s... hmmm! Okay, needs some thought.. 

[markslawson + 1,058]

11 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Very interesting site, I stumbled across, is anyone familiar with Dr Roy W. Spencer?

I've seen the site but haven't focussed much on it.. as you say its good.. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

A few points you will never see mentioned by AOC or MSM

Excerpt below, much more in the link:

THE CLUB OF ROME, THE FABIAN SOCIETY AND THE BOGUS ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT HOAX

 

What is Agenda 21?

“The origins of the Environmental movement as we see it began back in 1968, when the CLUB OF ROME was formed. The Club of Rome has been described as a crisis think tank, which specializes in “crises creation”. The main purpose of this think tank was to formulate a crisis that would unite the world and condition us to the idea of global solutions to local problems.  This was the instrument to be used to form the One World Government, also known as the New World Order.

 

The Global Warming scam

In a document called “The First Global Revolution”, authored by Alexander King and Bertrum Schneider, on pages 104 & 105 it states: “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers of course will be caused by human intervention that will require a Global response.” That is the origin of global warming.

 

The Club of Rome members and ideology

In 1972 the CLUB OF ROME published the alarmist “LIMITS TO GROWTH” document, warning of world wide over-population and the need for “Sustainable Development”. This was the beginning of the slow process of social engineering and programming people to accept that the planet is “struggling” to sustain life.

On October 8th, 1973 the New York Times reported a quote from TED TURNER, also a MEMBER of the CLUB OF ROME, “The social experiment in China under chairman Mao’s leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.”

TED TURNER was also quoted in 1996 as saying “The total population of 250 to 300 million people is ideal. That means a reduction of 95% from present levels would be even more ideal. Anyone who abhors the China one child policy is simply a dumb dumb.” On July 7th 1998 the Baltimore Sun reported that most of Ted Turner’s first donation to the UN of 22 million dollars went to programs that seek to stall population. Another goal of the depopulation process is that the upcoming generation will submit to sterilization to save mother Earth.

From a report in the 1976 UN’s “HABITAT 1” conference, “Land cannot be treated as an ordinary asset controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures of the inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth, therefor contributes to social injustice.” In other words if you work hard, excercise good financial management and invest in property you are contributing to social injustice.

In 1992 came the EARTH SUMMIT, which produced the document called the EARTH CHARTER. This document was co-written by MAURICE STRONG, long time globalist elitist and MEMBER of the CLUB OF ROME and MIKHAIL GORBATJOV. Both Strong and Gorbatjov stated that “it was hoped that this document would be adopted as the new Ten Commandments, with Environmentalism as the new ONE WORLD RELIGION.” Out of this summit came Agenda 21.

 

Depopulation, resource theft and control via land grabs

In 1992 former US president GEORGE BUSH Sr. said “Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require profound re-orientation of human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced. A major shift in the priorities of both governments and the individuals, in an unprecedented re-deployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action will be integrated into individual and collective decision making at every level.”

Cutting through the code, everyone should consider what “profound re-orientation of human society” and “unprecedented re-deployment of human and financial resources” actually means. For everyone not familiar with Agenda 21, this is the beginning of the learning curve, not the end.

In 1992 MAURICE STRONG, Secretary General of the UN Earth Summit and MEMBER of the Club of Rome said “It is clear the current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts of frozen convenience foods, use of fossil fuels, ownership of motor vehicles, small electrical appliances, home and workplace air-conditioning and suburban HOUSING are NOT SUSTAINABLE.”

Put those statements together with the previous one and it must become clear that Agenda 21 is about controlling every aspect of our lives, how we eat, what we eat, how much we eat, how we move around, food production, the amount of food and where we even live.

...

 

============================

From the horse's mouth, the Club of Rome website:

THE CLUB OF ROME CLIMATE EMERGENCY PLAN

[James Regan + 1,776]

12 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

This was the instrument to be used to form the One World Government, also known as the New World Order.

Apparently Nazi Germany were on to it as well- https://youtu.be/jGdbHW9Nlds

[Guest]

USA bad, 'can't see infront of your face' place good.

Time for USA to step it up I say. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

A few points you will never see mentioned by AOC or MSM

Excerpt below, much more in the link:

THE CLUB OF ROME, THE FABIAN SOCIETY AND THE BOGUS ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT HOAX

 

What is Agenda 21?

“The origins of the Environmental movement as we see it began back in 1968, when the CLUB OF ROME was formed. The Club of Rome has been described as a crisis think tank, which specializes in “crises creation”. The main purpose of this think tank was to formulate a crisis that would unite the world and condition us to the idea of global solutions to local problems.  This was the instrument to be used to form the One World Government, also known as the New World Order.

 

The Global Warming scam

In a document called “The First Global Revolution”, authored by Alexander King and Bertrum Schneider, on pages 104 & 105 it states: “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers of course will be caused by human intervention that will require a Global response.” That is the origin of global warming.

 

The Club of Rome members and ideology

In 1972 the CLUB OF ROME published the alarmist “LIMITS TO GROWTH” document, warning of world wide over-population and the need for “Sustainable Development”. This was the beginning of the slow process of social engineering and programming people to accept that the planet is “struggling” to sustain life.

On October 8th, 1973 the New York Times reported a quote from TED TURNER, also a MEMBER of the CLUB OF ROME, “The social experiment in China under chairman Mao’s leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.”

TED TURNER was also quoted in 1996 as saying “The total population of 250 to 300 million people is ideal. That means a reduction of 95% from present levels would be even more ideal. Anyone who abhors the China one child policy is simply a dumb dumb.” On July 7th 1998 the Baltimore Sun reported that most of Ted Turner’s first donation to the UN of 22 million dollars went to programs that seek to stall population. Another goal of the depopulation process is that the upcoming generation will submit to sterilization to save mother Earth.

From a report in the 1976 UN’s “HABITAT 1” conference, “Land cannot be treated as an ordinary asset controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures of the inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth, therefor contributes to social injustice.” In other words if you work hard, excercise good financial management and invest in property you are contributing to social injustice.

In 1992 came the EARTH SUMMIT, which produced the document called the EARTH CHARTER. This document was co-written by MAURICE STRONG, long time globalist elitist and MEMBER of the CLUB OF ROME and MIKHAIL GORBATJOV. Both Strong and Gorbatjov stated that “it was hoped that this document would be adopted as the new Ten Commandments, with Environmentalism as the new ONE WORLD RELIGION.” Out of this summit came Agenda 21.

 

Depopulation, resource theft and control via land grabs

In 1992 former US president GEORGE BUSH Sr. said “Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require profound re-orientation of human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced. A major shift in the priorities of both governments and the individuals, in an unprecedented re-deployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action will be integrated into individual and collective decision making at every level.”

Cutting through the code, everyone should consider what “profound re-orientation of human society” and “unprecedented re-deployment of human and financial resources” actually means. For everyone not familiar with Agenda 21, this is the beginning of the learning curve, not the end.

In 1992 MAURICE STRONG, Secretary General of the UN Earth Summit and MEMBER of the Club of Rome said “It is clear the current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts of frozen convenience foods, use of fossil fuels, ownership of motor vehicles, small electrical appliances, home and workplace air-conditioning and suburban HOUSING are NOT SUSTAINABLE.”

Put those statements together with the previous one and it must become clear that Agenda 21 is about controlling every aspect of our lives, how we eat, what we eat, how much we eat, how we move around, food production, the amount of food and where we even live.

...

 

============================

From the horse's mouth, the Club of Rome website:

THE CLUB OF ROME CLIMATE EMERGENCY PLAN

Affluent middle class is cited as the problem. The elites want to eliminate the middle class unless they are under their direct control and help control those below them. 

My public administration professor was a big fan of the Club of Rome when it was just getting going. He was as much an ass as they are. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by ronwagn

[Guest]

On 9/18/2019 at 4:16 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Screw you and screw your totalitarian censorship of dissent.

Sincerely,

Tom Kirkman

I'm pretty sure this didn't say 'screw' the other day haha

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

13 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I'm pretty sure this didn't say 'screw' the other day haha

Yeah, I toned it down a few notches.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Babylon Bee satire:

Panel Of Third Graders To Dictate Nation's Climate Change Policy

WASHINGTON, D.C.—At a panel on climate change held yesterday, the Senate brought in a group of excited third graders for ideas on fighting climate change.

The kids came up with the following list so far, though they say they're "just spitballing" and the ideas need some fleshing out:

• Bribing the climate with cookies and candy
• Putting the climate on time-out
• Just ignoring climate change and playing Fortnite
• Building a giant magnet and sucking up all the bad climate stuff
• Buying a Nintendo Switch for every person in the nation (so they'll stay inside and play Nintendo instead of driving cars)
• Making a big freeze ray gun like in Despicable Me and shooting the climate
• Pointing and laughing at cows who fart so they'll be embarrassed and stop farting
• Hey do you guys want to play some Minecraft? This is boring.

[James Regan + 1,776]

14 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Babylon Bee satire:

Panel Of Third Graders To Dictate Nation's Climate Change Policy

WASHINGTON, D.C.—At a panel on climate change held yesterday, the Senate brought in a group of excited third graders for ideas on fighting climate change.

The kids came up with the following list so far, though they say they're "just spitballing" and the ideas need some fleshing out:

• Bribing the climate with cookies and candy
• Putting the climate on time-out
• Just ignoring climate change and playing Fortnite
• Building a giant magnet and sucking up all the bad climate stuff
• Buying a Nintendo Switch for every person in the nation (so they'll stay inside and play Nintendo instead of driving cars)
• Making a big freeze ray gun like in Despicable Me and shooting the climate
• Pointing and laughing at cows who fart so they'll be embarrassed and stop farting
• Hey do you guys want to play some Minecraft? This is boring.

Giant Magnet - now that would be fun to see, I am seeing all kinds of weird things in my head. Is this true, not the magnet lol , but did they pull in a think tank of third graders to do this?? @Tom Kirkman

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

41 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Giant Magnet - now that would be fun to see, I am seeing all kinds of weird things in my head. Is this true, not the magnet lol , but did they pull in a think tank of third graders to do this?? @Tom Kirkman

 

Kinda.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1174378217672564736

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

"Climate Confessions?"

Not a parody.  Madness takes its toll.