Scientists and Climate Change

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Here is what I do have. Biogas https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N-TLMeHsKYBCirxS0vbqMGHpU2SmyLuCc7bqp8eYXVM/edit

[PE Scott + 563]

12 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Here is what I do have. Biogas https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N-TLMeHsKYBCirxS0vbqMGHpU2SmyLuCc7bqp8eYXVM/edit

Very cool, not what I thought you were referring to 😁.

Capturing all that methane and using it is great for appeasing the greenies and getting the farmers some revenue!

That's a long list of links!

 

[PE Scott + 563]

This is where rational minds can prevail and makes some money's. @Douglas Bucklandposted about flare gas a while back and had me thinking about it. Now seems like an ideal time to appeal for government subsidies to fund a mobile natural gas utilization widget. Maybe it will produce rainbows for added pizazz. 

Side benefit, run the private company that secures those sweet sweet subsidies and ride the global fear train to many many moneys.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, PE Scott said:

Very cool, not what I thought you were referring to 😁.

Capturing all that methane and using it is great for appeasing the greenies and getting the farmers some revenue!

That's a long list of links!

 

That is one of my smaller topics of 225 plus. I am a newsie and just file what I think is of value. Directory is here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ipd1YlcDaA_E9QtLhUXJBPiobFcRx1Rgipny9rOPJZE/edit

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Weather is not climate.  Extreme weather events increase under climate change.

Even if CO2 is awesome plant food -and climate change is a hoax- we still Know that burning fossil fuels creates other forms of pollution and should be phased out.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Meanwhile in Oil Alberta, this billboard was put up.  So now we are migrating from climate change is fake to climate change is good for us?

 

 

FYI the backlash against it was so strong the vice-president resigned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/university-of-alberta-vice-president-resigns-billboards-1.5302308

Edited October 1, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Meanwhile in Oil Alberta, this billboard was put up.  So now we are migrating from climate change is fake to climate change is good for us?

 

 

FYI the backlash against it was so strong the vice-president resigned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/university-of-alberta-vice-president-resigns-billboards-1.5302308

Again with your category errors? You conflate "climate change" an unproven hypothesis, with increased CO2 which I've already proven is GOOD for the planet (especially plants). 

Upon closer inspection, I see it wasn't you who made the error, but the author of the billboard. They should have mentioned CO2, which is what is improving the crops. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Ward Smith

[Guest]

LOL this is the quickest opinion change ever

''AGAIN WITH YOUR ERRORS!!''

''Oh it wasn't you, sorry''

[PE Scott + 563]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Weather is not climate.  Extreme weather events increase under climate change.

Even if CO2 is awesome plant food -and climate change is a hoax- we still Know that burning fossil fuels creates other forms of pollution and should be phased out.

I guess I don't recall anyone saying climate change was a hoax so much as it was irresponsible to claim that any change in the climate is a result of increased CO2 levels from human activity. I don't think anyone here has argued that CO2 concentrations have not increased. Granted, i agree that extreme shifts in wheather are a result of climate change some places. We just may not agree on the mechanism of change.

In addition, we were speaking exactly of the need to still address other pollutants in exhaust gasses and the continued requirement that we clean up those exhaust wherever the technology is available and feasible. 

The thing that we don't agree on is the need to cut out all fossil fuels in the energy mix. We don't agree on their overall impact. We especially don't seem to agree on how to balance the needs and human rights of individuals with environmentalist. 

Providing cheap energy is what helps society's develop and makes wealth disparity less impactful. Access to constant, cheap energy is a necessity if you want to develop past third world status. In many places, natural gas (or sometimes coal) is the best way to provide that energy cost effectively. As time goes on, those energy grids can be diversified, but that's usually not a jumping off point. Additionally, the technology exists to clean up the exhaust from facilities and prevent most if not all the heavier pollutants from being released. In many cases these materials are then utilized for other industrial processes. In developed countries, every effort is made to reduce or eliminate the majority of pollutants from commercial power generation. Certainly any new plants being built are taking full advantage of that kind of technology.

 

In general, I probably don't disagree with you about most of this. I think we just have different ideas of how clean energy should be produced. I'm all for working with the oil and gas industry to utilize our resources and maintain energy independence while you, as far as I can tell, prefer to work against it an only endorse "green" alternatives. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In a society with such a massive appetite for energy, all options need to be explored. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:56 AM, Enthalpic said:

Weather is not climate.  Extreme weather events increase under climate change.

Even if CO2 is awesome plant food -and climate change is a hoax- we still Know that burning fossil fuels creates other forms of pollution and should be phased out.

Not true of natural gas. It is what has made America the only large nation that has reduced real pollutants and CO2.

The elites continue to purchase all the low lying coastal land they can. We all help them by offering flood insurance at prices under the risk, which is mainly from storms and too much precipitation. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:56 PM, Enthalpic said:

Weather is not climate.  Extreme weather events increase under climate change.

Even if CO2 is awesome plant food -and climate change is a hoax- we still Know that burning fossil fuels creates other forms of pollution and should be phased out.

Okay....you first! Lead by example.

Are you saying that the El Nino and El Nina are weather or climate change?

[remake it + 288]

4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay....you first! Lead by example.

Are you saying that the El Nino and El Nina are weather or climate change?

They are neither, and if you are asking questions it is best to first know the answer.

Edited October 4, 2019 by remake it
both included

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 minutes ago, remake it said:

if you are asking questions it is best to first know the answer.

This seems ... counterproductive.

I encourage people to question darn near everyone and everything.  Including questioning me.

If you think you already know the answer to something, it is a bit difficult to be able to learn something new or different or complimentary to what you already know.

[remake it + 288]

25 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

This seems ... counterproductive.

I encourage people to question darn near everyone and everything.  Including questioning me.

If you think you already know the answer to something, it is a bit difficult to be able to learn something new or different or complimentary to what you already know.

Given the question was meaningless, it should not have been asked, so was counterproductive from the outset.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Remake It is assuming that those that ask questions do not know the answers.

Perhaps I should have asked:

Is the El Nino/El Nina phenomena a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change’?

[remake it + 288]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Remake It is assuming that those that ask questions do not know the answers.

Perhaps I should have asked:

Is the El Nino/El Nina phenomena a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change’?

Again, neither, but perhaps you can tell us what you think and why seeing you may know the answer.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Hmmm...let’s see.

El Nino originally referred to a warm ocean current which ran along the coasts of Peru and Ecuador generally around Christmas time.

The term is now generally used to describe certain aspects of the El Nino - Southern Oscillation.

The warming associated with El Nino causes a shift in atmospheric circulation reducing rainfall over Indonesia and Australia, while rainfall and cyclone formation increases over the tropical Pacific Ocean.

There is no scientific consensus that ‘climate change’ has any influence on the occurrence, strength or duration of El Nino events.

That’s a nutshell description. As most of us would consider ‘rainfall’ and cyclones weather events, I conclude that ‘remake it’ may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, although he would obviously like us to think so.

 

[remake it + 288]

16 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Hmmm...let’s see.

El Nino originally referred to a warm ocean current which ran along the coasts of Peru and Ecuador generally around Christmas time.

The term is now generally used to describe certain aspects of the El Nino - Southern Oscillation.

The warming associated with El Nino causes a shift in atmospheric circulation reducing rainfall over Indonesia and Australia, while rainfall and cyclone formation increases over the tropical Pacific Ocean.

There is no scientific consensus that ‘climate change’ has any influence on the occurrence, strength or duration of El Nino events.

That’s a nutshell description. As most of us would consider ‘rainfall’ and cyclones weather events, I conclude that ‘remake it’ may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, although he would obviously like us to think so.

 

Rather than indulge in ad hominems, please note that your reply agrees perfectly with the fact that the El Nino/El (sic) Nina phenomena you referred to were neither a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change.’

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Well, if El Nino doesn’t cause weather.....then fossil fuels must not contribute to pollution! You have just made a whack of new ‘friends’ on this forum!

[remake it + 288]

19 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Well, if El Nino doesn’t cause weather.....then fossil fuels must not contribute to pollution! You have just made a whack of new ‘friends’ on this forum!

Why not go back and read the questions you asked, and see how your reply addressed them, rather than deflect with yet another ad hominem.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Remake It is assuming that those that ask questions do not know the answers.

Perhaps I should have asked:

Is the El Nino/El Nina phenomena a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change’?

 

3 hours ago, remake it said:

Again, neither, but perhaps you can tell us what you think and why seeing you may know the answer.

 

10 minutes ago, remake it said:

Why not go back and read the questions you asked, and see how your reply addressed them, rather than deflect with yet another ad hominem.

 

Remake it, if your response to this question

Is the El Nino/El Nina phenomena a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change’?

is "neither", then what do you propose is your answer to the question?

[remake it + 288]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Remake it, if your response to this question

Is the El Nino/El Nina phenomena a cause, or a result, of ‘climate change’?

is "neither", then what do you propose is your answer to the question?

It is a non-question as it contains category error, rendering any answer meaningless.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

An excellent response! You do not have to take a position either way and you still get to maintain your arrogant ‘high ground’. Well done! Obviously a debater and problem solver of the highest order. I applaud your strategy.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Guys, I've changed my mind, there just isn't enough time for arguing anymore.

The is only one thing left to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cUx07mxF8Q

Edited October 4, 2019 by El Nikko

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

That girl should get her time at the UN as well - fair is fair!😂