frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, DayTrader said: Oh did all the PEOPLE ban it? Why ban it if you don't believe anyway? Me : I don't believe, they have right to believe China: We don't believe, but even if you want to, you can't. I am blocking you. You are clearly a bit simple. well, well, So you disbelieve, but shall defend the rights of other to believe and practise religion? Truly, this is noble. Before we discuss your convictions further, may we fine tune the issue of religion in China? The blanket statement, religion is banned, is not entirely accurate. "Organised" religion is banned; example, the kinds of institutions one sees in the West, such as the Papacy. "Belief" is not banned: people are free to believe in a God. You may be surprised to learn how many places of worship China has and how many people attend these places regularly. The scope is thousands and millions. Right or wrong, whatever such means in your moral judgement, China has decided to ban organised religion, but tolerate the beliefs of individuals. And yes, the "people" decided this over 70 years ago, and the very vast majority shun religions to this day. This is their right to do, yet you persist to claim otherwise. You seem to be very strong in your convictions. I look forward to the day when I read you visit China and champion the cause of organised religious freedom in China. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 33 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: A little common sense goes a long way Can we possibly get this attached to the home page or at the start of threads please? And ''troll free zone'' Would be lovely. Just sayin' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: Yet another teenage response. uh, How can truth be revealed for anything, unless one is there, in the situation, confronting the situation, first hand? If this is the case, then how can we believe anything presented by the mainstream media or venues such as this UNLESS WE ARE PHYSICALLY PRESENT AT THE TIME ANY EVENT IS OCCURRING? I despise mainstream media, but I believe that I can read an article or watch a presentation and logically remove the spin and bias to get to facts. For example, I am not in Syria at the moment, but I am fairly certain that Turkey will go on the offensive there shortly. I will not be in the States next year, but I firmly believe that a Presidential election will happen there. A little common sense goes a long way...you do not need to be physically at an event to form an opinion. To form an opinion,,, aye, there's the rub. Should I espouse opinion based on personal belief or knowledge? To believe or to know, that is the question. [excuse my poor paraphrasing]. Europe existed for a thousand years in darkness and despotism, led by an institution that convinced the serfs their lives were but a transition to a greater glory, if only they would believe. Seems we live by two entirely opposed paradigms. -respectfully, 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 You may be surprised to learn how many places of worship China has and how many people attend these places regularly. The scope is thousands and millions. Isn’t this, by definition, ‘organized religion’ as opposed to individual beliefs? Isn’t Buddhism an organized belief system? Are you honestly trying to tell me that Buddhism is banned in China? You can’t have it both ways.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, DayTrader said: Can we possibly get this attached to the home page or at the start of threads please? And ''troll free zone'' Would be lovely. Just sayin' AGREE: More lovely would would be a statement, to the effect, opinions shall be based upon demonstrable facts. just saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, frankfurter said: To form an opinion,,, aye, there's the rub. Should I espouse opinion based on personal belief or knowledge? To believe or to know, that is the question. [excuse my poor paraphrasing]. Europe existed for a thousand years in darkness and despotism, led by an institution that convinced the serfs their lives were but a transition to a greater glory, if only they would believe. Seems we live by two entirely opposed paradigms. -respectfully, And ‘China’ existed for thousands of years as a group of warring factions, headed by various warlords, in darkness, until one guy rose to the top of the pile. Now all the ‘serfs’ could either kowtow to him or get their heads lopped off and their bodies buried in the Great Wall, which other serfs were being forced to build... How far back in history would you like to go? Generally, I would say that ‘belief’ is based on faith, while an opinion is based on an individuals perception of the data (not necessarily facts) presented. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, DayTrader said: My mustache is a heck of a lot more impressive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 Just now, Douglas Buckland said: You may be surprised to learn how many places of worship China has and how many people attend these places regularly. The scope is thousands and millions. Isn’t this, by definition, ‘organized religion’ as opposed to individual beliefs? Isn’t Buddhism an organized belief system? Are you honestly trying to tell me that Buddhism is banned in China? You can’t have it both ways.. Are my points not clear? You demonstrate the point. The belief in "Buddhism" is not banned in China: neither is belief in Christ, or Mohammed. What is banned is the organised institution of religion. Buddhism in China is not practised in the same manner as in India. As China has developed over the past 70 years, the CCP has relaxed and increasingly tolerates those people who wish to congregate. But they do so by themselves, sort of grass roots, without ordained leaders. But, Western churches do in fact send ordained leaders to China, which demonstrates how far the CCP has come to tolerate religion. Again, the blanket statement, religion is not tolerated, is not entirely correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 ''Glory to Hong Kong'' - Ron Wagner Just sayin' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: And ‘China’ existed for thousands of years as a group of warring factions, headed by various warlords, in darkness, until one guy rose to the top of the pile. Now all the ‘serfs’ could either kowtow to him or get their heads lopped off and their bodies buried in the Great Wall, which other serfs were being forced to build... How far back in history would you like to go? Generally, I would say that ‘belief’ is based on faith, while an opinion is based on an individuals perception of the data (not necessarily facts) presented. Historical points, agreed. uh, Look around you. At surface level, what do you perceive? My eyes are better than average, yet as I gaze upon the horizon at sea, I perceive no surface curvature. Thus I understand why certain people world-wide long ago concluded the earth was flat. (sadly their descendants persist to this day, as I read western media). So much for perceptions. -regards, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Selva + 252 SP October 10, 2019 I think @ronwagn regrets for starting this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 you kidding?! he's got through like 50kg of popcorn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, frankfurter said: Are my points not clear? You demonstrate the point. The belief in "Buddhism" is not banned in China: neither is belief in Christ, or Mohammed. What is banned is the organised institution of religion. Buddhism in China is not practised in the same manner as in India. As China has developed over the past 70 years, the CCP has relaxed and increasingly tolerates those people who wish to congregate. But they do so by themselves, sort of grass roots, without ordained leaders. But, Western churches do in fact send ordained leaders to China, which demonstrates how far the CCP has come to tolerate religion. Again, the blanket statement, religion is not tolerated, is not entirely correct. Hold on! You say ‘organized institution of religion’ is banned, but apparently there are many places of worship in China and that many people attend them regularly. So NO, your point is NOT clear. How about the Uighars? Western churches sending ordained leaders to China...but organized religion is banned? You are not making any sense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, frankfurter said: Historical points, agreed. uh, Look around you. At surface level, what do you perceive? My eyes are better than average, yet as I gaze upon the horizon at sea, I perceive no surface curvature. Thus I understand why certain people world-wide long ago concluded the earth was flat. (sadly their descendants persist to this day, as I read western media). So much for perceptions. -regards, Granted, in China, any personal ‘perception’ of essentially anything is frowned on. So much for perceptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: So NO, your point is NOT clear. 4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: You are not making any sense! Hold the front page. #blockingnonsenseisbeautiful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Kirkman + 8,860 October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said: My mustache is a heck of a lot more impressive! True. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, frankfurter said: so happy to read I am a source of humour for you. makes my day. "Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean people don't have the right to believe what they want." So, when 1.399 billion people also disbelieve and choose to ban religion from their country, you criticise them for having no rights? Bro, you need help. I am absolutely, positively certain that those 1.399 billion people were never asked their thoughts on religion rather, they were told what their thoughts would be regarding banning religion. Bro, you need to give your head a shake and see the world for what it really is! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 (edited) Yep. Answered all this. The PEOPLE chose (that's what their papers said?). Yep. Ok. Gotta go. Edited October 10, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said: I am absolutely, positively certain that those 1.399 billion people were never asked their thoughts on religion rather, they were told what their thoughts would be regarding banning religion. Bro, you need to give your head a shake and see the world for what it really is! You should learn true history, as clearly you have no inkling. As you are so certain, please provide the proof. Bro, you need to quit drinking the kool aid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PE Scott + 563 SC October 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, frankfurter said: You should learn true history, as clearly you have no inkling. As you are so certain, please provide the proof. Bro, you need to quit drinking the kool aid. I'm honestly curious, do you have a reference to a history text written and endorsed by the Chinese and yourself....especially one translated to English? I'd really like to know what I'm missing out on. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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