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(edited)

How am I suggesting the protests are BECAUSE the world is watching? You should read before rambling.

What fact did you present? The Ghandi reference?  Well done. 

Oh it's all an agenda? LOL. Proven to be funded by outside forces. You have this proof?

Anything anyone says about HK is wrong but you have all the facts. Phew.

16 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Respectfully, if you are basing your "knowledge" upon western media propaganda, your perspective will be entirely distorted.

I'm not. And if I were, I guess I'd say ''and Chinese media is nothing but the truth to you?!!'' What is this golden media from the East that your facts are from??

And I'm the one with the agenda... ?!

I notice you ignored most of it, so you can say ''I have proof'' (nonsense), and to misquote me and ignore photos of history.

I agree, discussion is pointless. Take care.

Cheers. 

Edited by DayTrader

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(edited)

A whole ONE citizen?  Oh very open minded.

Cheers. You proved my points. 

Edited by DayTrader
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41 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

How am I suggesting the protests are BECAUSE the world is watching? You should read before rambling.

What fact did you present? The Ghandi reference?  Well done. 

Oh it's all an agenda? LOL. Proven to be funded by outside forces. You have this proof?

Anything anyone says about HK is wrong but you have all the facts. Phew.

I'm not. And if I were, I guess I'd say ''and Chinese media is nothing but the truth to you?!!'' What is this golden media from the East that your facts are from??

And I'm the one with the agenda... ?!

I notice you ignored most of it, so you can say ''I have proof (nonsense), and to misquote me and ignore photos of history.

I agree, discussion is pointless. Take care.

Cheers. 

Where did I write my knowledge is based upon Chinese media?  Again, you are interjecting your agenda. As for clarity, I think my post is very clear: the students chose Mao as their symbol. I then posed the question: if the students were opposed to the CCP, why would they choose its founder as their symbol?  I raise these points to expose the other side to the story, in the hope a few people here may reflect upon this and question the propaganda they have swallowed for so long. I thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my posts. 

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(edited)

CHINA GOOD, WEST BAD

SOOOOO BORING

Tiananmen and Ghandi good, HK and USA bad...

Everyone's news is wrong, but not yours...

Photos are fake, but not yours...

Anything anyone sees or reads is propaganda. You do it and it's stone cold fact...

''Here is ONE CITIZEN on youtube'' - this is an example of your fantastic sources...

Amazing. Take care.

Cheers.

#freetibet

Edited by DayTrader

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3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Perhaps, but photos of Mao or not, they still ended up being killed by their own government....right or wrong?

As I read from another thread here, students at Kent State were killed by their government, without any provocation.  right or wrong?   Would this be all the more reason to propose an end to violence? 

The point is: the reasons for Tiananmen are very different from HK.  You introduced Tiananmen, and imply a connection, so please elaborate why you think it is "connected" to HK.  Are the same people involved?  

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1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

CHINA GOOD

WEST BAD

BORING

Everyone's news is wrong, but not yours...

Photos are fake, but not yours...

''Here is ONE CITIZEN on youtube'' - this is an example of your fantastic sources.

Amazing. Take care.

Cheers.

#freetibet

True, only one.  it serves an example.  for brevity, to respect the basic premise of this site.  you want more?  where do I claim this is my source?  this is public news, to show people like you a different narrative in a mode consistent with the msm you prefer. hope you may view it and ponder the implications.   for me, the video gives hope the HK citizens will find a way to resolve the protests and violence, IF they may be left alone to do so.  

But as you are hell bent to ridicule everything I write, with no facts of your own to present, 2 can play this lowly game.  

cheers.

 

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(edited)

Not at all. Just utterly boring. Well done, you found some public news?  If others do that, you say it's propaganda. I could find thousands of photos of injured protesters and you'd say ''well it's just a snapshot'' LOL.

No facts?!!  People give you facts and you say propaganda or MSM or faked or snapshot or paid for and faked by UK and US 

When you do it it's fine. Stone cold truth whatever you claim. Whole world lying.

You are hilarious. Verging on Bobby Fischer. Next you'll mention the Illuminati. 

And I wasn't personally gonna get involved so you can sleep easy and so can HK.

Cheers. See ya.  I have no time for your nonsense.

#freetibet 

 

Edited by DayTrader

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(edited)

On 10/6/2019 at 2:54 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

How do you leave your home and relocate elsewhere? This assumes you can financially afford to get rid of your business or quit your job, sell the family residence and possess the necessary criteria to legally be granted asylum or a legal status in another country. Easier said than done!

Is leaving a problem a solution?

Yes.  For HK residents with skills and money, immigration isn't difficult.  A lot of nations will take them, especially if they apply for a "political persecution" visa.  If not US, then Europe of course.  

You're talking to a trader, here.  Leaving is ALWAYS a solution if things go bad.  Bravery is for the stupid.

The alternative is to live in HK and ignore these politics.  When HK reverted to China, it was only a matter of time before they clamped down, so again this is no surprise.  Staying and getting embroiled in anti-establishment politics in China is asking to get steamrolled.  

Edited by Zhong Lu

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1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

As I read from another thread here, students at Kent State were killed by their government, without any provocation.  right or wrong?   Would this be all the more reason to propose an end to violence? 

The point is: the reasons for Tiananmen are very different from HK.  You introduced Tiananmen, and imply a connection, so please elaborate why you think it is "connected" to HK.  Are the same people involved?  

First, try to stay on topic! We were debating current events in Hong Kong not the Kent State incident decades ago - correct?

Yes, I would say the same players are involved; Chinese citizens versus the Communist Chinese government or puppets thereof.

How do you see it?

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1 hour ago, Zhong Lu said:

Yes.  For HK residents with skills and money, immigration isn't difficult.  A lot of nations will take them, especially if they apply for a "political persecution" visa.  If not US, then Europe of course.  

You're talking to a trader, here.  Leaving is ALWAYS a solution if things go bad.  Bravery is for the stupid.

The alternative is to live in HK and ignore these politics.  When HK reverted to China, it was only a matter of time before they clamped down, so again this is no surprise.  Staying and getting embroiled in anti-establishment politics in China is asking to get steamrolled.  

Lu, I respectfully disagree with your claim that ‘immigration isn’t difficult’. It is becoming much more difficult immigrate OR to seek asylum these days!

I would think that a Chinese citizen, of Chinese ethnicity, would have a very difficult time ‘proving’ political persecution. I agree that most countries have no issues with accepting Chinese applicants, but globally the bar is being raised daily it seems.

Be very careful when admitting that you are a trader! That puts you in the same camp as Day Trader, a very dark and dismal place...😂

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https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/first-public-warning-hk-leader-says-chinese-army-could-step-against-rioters

Chinese state media as it continues highlighting the dangerous vandalism, including an alleged attack on a cross-border train into China, seems to be making a case that only direct mainland intervention can remedy the situation and restore order. 

#2 systems 

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LMAO, someone in the Houston Rockets actually expressed support for the people in Hong Kong and the Chinese gov't got pissed off about it. Now they are doing retractions etc. Makes you wonder, why do we give a phuk about what the Chinese gov't thinks, and we are in a country where free speech is allowed, so why take it back? I know they go over there and do a couple of entertainment games, but it wouldn't hurt to tel them to take a leap off a tall building. Who cares if they go over there and play a couple of games? Whoo-Hoo!!!

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On 10/7/2019 at 12:38 AM, frankfurter said:

Please explain why you think Tiananmen is relevant. Thank you. 

So Tienanmen Square and what is going on right now in Hong Kong are basically the same thing. People are wanting their freedom from the tyranny of their government. You also made a reference to Kent State, and that was an entirely different thing altogether. Those students were protesting the US involvement in Vietnam, and it started when one of the National Guardsmen probably accidentally fired a round from his rifle and the others thought they were being shot at and fired into the crowd. The biggest difference is that the students at Kent were protesting as is their right to do so, and the people in Hong Kong do NOT have that right, nor did the students in Tienanmen Square., so the government quashed that rebellion as I suspect they will do the rebels in Hong Kong. I remember wondering how long it would take for this to happen in Hong Kong after it was announced that the Brits would be turning it back over to the communists, when was it, in the 90's?

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18 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

LMAO, someone in the Houston Rockets actually expressed support for the people in Hong Kong and the Chinese gov't got pissed off about it.

EXACTLY!!  China offended, who cares? How dare someone say something in the USA about HK?!!

WTF is going on in the world?!  Now people can't express personal opinion? 

Next the trolls will come out from their bridge and say we should stay out of it (as having an opinion is ''getting involved'').

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(edited)

15 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

and the people in Hong Kong do NOT have that right, nor did the students in Tienanmen Square.

15 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

So Tienanmen Square and what is going on right now in Hong Kong are basically the same thing.

Hahaahahah good luck SERWIN.... have fun

15 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

the Brits would be turning it back over to the communists, when was it, in the 90's?

Yep 1997

Edited by DayTrader

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By the way, I love that @ronwagn starts this thread and then sits back with popcorn haha.

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(edited)

14 hours ago, frankfurter said:

As I read from another thread here, students at Kent State were killed by their government, without any provocation.  right or wrong?   Would this be all the more reason to propose an end to violence? 

The point is: the reasons for Tiananmen are very different from HK.  You introduced Tiananmen, and imply a connection, so please elaborate why you think it is "connected" to HK.  Are the same people involved?  

I think we need some context for Kent State since, even though this has been posted multiple times in multiple threads, it keeps getting re-spun with painfully low understanding of history. At this point, I'm pretty sure SERWIN has this on his clip board to copy paste...

2 hours ago, SERWIN said:

So Tienanmen Square and what is going on right now in Hong Kong are basically the same thing. People are wanting their freedom from the tyranny of their government. You also made a reference to Kent State, and that was an entirely different thing altogether. Those students were protesting the US involvement in Vietnam, and it started when one of the National Guardsmen probably accidentally fired a round from his rifle and the others thought they were being shot at and fired into the crowd. The biggest difference is that the students at Kent were protesting as is their right to do so, and the people in Hong Kong do NOT have that right, nor did the students in Tienanmen Square., so the government quashed that rebellion as I suspect they will do the rebels in Hong Kong. I remember wondering how long it would take for this to happen in Hong Kong after it was announced that the Brits would be turning it back over to the communists, when was it, in the 90's?

And from another thread:

On 9/23/2019 at 3:40 PM, Jan van Eck said:

While this comment had zero to do with the situation in Hong Kong, it is factually incorrect, other than the observation that the students at Kent State were in a protest against the Vietnam War.  What happened was that someone, presumably the Governor of the State of Ohio, had ordered out a National Guard unit to that campus.  It turned out to be a rag-tag unit, undisciplined, mostly staffed by redneck wannabe soldiers who did not want to actually be in real combat with other soldiers shooting at them, they just wanted to play with guns and trucks and run around in combat clothing and put on those big boots.  So the undisciplined rednecks formed up on a knoll perhaps 250 feet from the protesters, and one of the men started live shooting, so the others joined in. 

There were no "State Troopers," no policemen were "under orders" to shoot anyone, it was a worthless "national guard" group that never should have been allowed to leave the barracks.  It is not established that any "Order" was ever issued.  Although there were investigations, no plausible trail could be established, and no one was ever charged (or at least, convicted) of manslaughter. Part of that reason was that it became impossible to establish who shot which gun.  

This even was and is a serious stain on America, and it demonstrates what happens when discipline is out the window.  And, to be remembered (and the professional army of today has absorbed this lesson) there are certain people who cannot be in the military, as they are a danger both to themselves, the unit, and the public. 

(Btw, I tend to disagree with Jan and SERWIN fairly regularly - but it's hard to disagree when they're simply posting historical facts...)

 

2 hours ago, SERWIN said:

LMAO, someone in the Houston Rockets actually expressed support for the people in Hong Kong and the Chinese gov't got pissed off about it. Now they are doing retractions etc. Makes you wonder, why do we give a phuk about what the Chinese gov't thinks, and we are in a country where free speech is allowed, so why take it back? I know they go over there and do a couple of entertainment games, but it wouldn't hurt to tel them to take a leap off a tall building. Who cares if they go over there and play a couple of games? Whoo-Hoo!!!

Seriously? We're letting China infringe on our right to free speech? Might revisit my family's sports viewing habits.

(I understand that if he technically uses his position as a Houston Rockets player, it's technically speech as a representative of an organization, so not protected, not a first amendment issue. Not sure what the full situation is here... but I have trouble understanding how we can argue that the NFL issue was 'Free Speech, 1st Amendment' when criticizing the US, but criticize China and it's immediately retracted?)

Update:
“In our opinion, any speech that challenges national sovereignty and social stability, should not be regarded as a freedom of expression,” CCTV said.
 

So if anyone anywhere criticizes the CCP, it's not freedom of expression? Aka, there is no freedom of expression. Period. 

The more I learn about this, the more #IStandWithHongKong

Edited by Otis11
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(edited)

Who cares what anyone thinks about the opinion of a basketball coach in the USA ?????

Oh, China do. Of course they do ... well f**k them.

''Outrageous freedom of speech over there, we must do all to stamp that out!! They must apologise for having opinions!'' 

#WOMPWOMP     What the hell is going on??!

China : ''I am offended by your opinions of the HK situation!''

Rest of World: ''Fair enough, we are offended by almost everything you do.''

31 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

Update:
“In our opinion, any speech that challenges national sovereignty and social stability, should not be regarded as a freedom of expression,” CCTV said.

You will be told this is Western propaganda and faked, and that UK and US funded it blah blah yaaaaawn ...

Edited by DayTrader
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On 10/5/2019 at 9:21 PM, ronwagn said:

Frankfurter, I have a very strong feeling that these Hong Kongers are much braver than the average German citizen today. I have great respect for the right wing Germans who seek to save Germany from the Islamiic immigration that Merkel has promoted. I have no respect for those who are letting Germans become a people who are now living in fear of the Muslims allowed in. I feel the same about all of those in the European Union that choose Muslim immigration that is not wanted by the majority of the people. I find your judgement of Hong Kongers despicable.

I love it when the “right” trashes the “right. Merkel imported those Muslims because their country is losing population. It had nothing to do with Muslim love. 
The same with the Democrats and Trump, although Trump just wants white educated immigrants.

Merkel/immigration supporters/big business need more workers and consumers to make money and make those numbers look good.

The fear of politicians is the shrinking economy, not the love of immigrants.
 

 

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4 hours ago, Boat said:

I love it when the “right” trashes the “right. Merkel imported those Muslims because their country is losing population. It had nothing to do with Muslim love. 
The same with the Democrats and Trump, although Trump just wants white educated immigrants.

Merkel/immigration supporters/big business need more workers and consumers to make money and make those numbers look good.

The fear of politicians is the shrinking economy, not the love of immigrants.
 

 

Do you realize the 'Right' in the US is conservative but the 'Right' in Europe is the liberal party?

Also, unemployment is massive if measured correctly (aka, look at the US Labor Force Participation Rate... currently 63%)

Sure, a fair number are retired... but a bunch are just collecting unemployment benefits, living on the government. We don't need more people, we need to get the people we have working. That may be because minimum wage is too high that people won't pay that much for their skills, it could be that we don't have enough jobs, it could be that our unemployment benefits are too generous that people aren't willing to work for money, it could be any number of reasons. The fact is, there are more jobs than qualified people to fill them... and a bunch of people who aren't filling the jobs. We don't need more unskilled people. Period.

united-states-labor-force-participation-rate@3x.png

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“I have even less respect for the cowardly people who write"articles" from their armchairs.”

Where would you suggest we write them from? The sauna is too darned hot and sweaty and I really don’t want to take my phone into the hot tub...as Goldilocks says, ‘This armchair is JUST right!’.

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