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3 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Do you realize the 'Right' in the US is conservative but the 'Right' in Europe is the liberal party?

Also, unemployment is massive if measured correctly (aka, look at the US Labor Force Participation Rate... currently 63%)

Sure, a fair number are retired... but a bunch are just collecting unemployment benefits, living on the government. We don't need more people, we need to get the people we have working. That may be because minimum wage is too high that people won't pay that much for their skills, it could be that we don't have enough jobs, it could be that our unemployment benefits are too generous that people aren't willing to work for money, it could be any number of reasons. The fact is, there are more jobs than qualified people to fill them... and a bunch of people who aren't filling the jobs. We don't need more unskilled people. Period.

united-states-labor-force-participation-rate@3x.png

My point was immigration is the easiest way to boost GDP. Now the saying “it’s the economy stupid”? In the US both parties have supported immigration. I agree we don’t need any unskilled people. In fact overpopulation is a serious enough problem no migration by anyone is a smart idea unless it happens in the form of a trade. 
Many of those outside the workforce simply won’t work. There are stay at home moms who want to raise their kids even if it means a reduction in spending. I don’t know the numbers but have a brother and sister that have stay at home lifestyles. My niece is well educated and is a stay at home mom.

My experience with unemployment happened once. I got about $650 per month while my monthly bills ran close to $1,700. It only lasted six months if I remember right. That was after contributing taxes for 26 years straight. 
 

If there was a huge shortage of jobs for a decade society would spend their money on what it thought was the most important and I would hazard a guess wages would be much higher for those then coveted workers. 
What jobs would disappear I have no clue but the cost structure of businesses would certainly change. 
When I was a kid an attendant pumped gas, washed your windows and checked your tires for a tank of gas. A kid bailed hay in the heat for 1.75 per hr. Point is high wages that you can live on can happen with a lack of workers. Those who do work may lose the yard guy and the barber but somehow we’ll survive. We won’t have low wage jobs with a declining population and no migration.

 

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10 hours ago, DayTrader said:

By the way, I love that @ronwagn starts this thread and then sits back with popcorn haha.

The more I hear about the evils perpetrated by the Chinese government the more I want to overthrow their government. That will take a miracle. 

See China Stories https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

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10 hours ago, Boat said:

I love it when the “right” trashes the “right. Merkel imported those Muslims because their country is losing population. It had nothing to do with Muslim love. 
The same with the Democrats and Trump, although Trump just wants white educated immigrants.

Merkel/immigration supporters/big business need more workers and consumers to make money and make those numbers look good.

The fear of politicians is the shrinking economy, not the love of immigrants.
 

 

It is not the love of immigrants it is wanting them to counterbalance the German conservatives with liberal votes. 

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On 10/8/2019 at 3:21 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

First, try to stay on topic! We were debating current events in Hong Kong not the Kent State incident decades ago - correct?

Yes, I would say the same players are involved; Chinese citizens versus the Communist Chinese government or puppets thereof.

How do you see it?

Citizens of HK have their own passports.  No HK citizen I know calls her/himself a Chinese citizen.  That passport gives HK citizens many more rights and freedoms than any in the mainland.  So to label HK citizens as Chinese citizens is not correct. 

HK is autonomous, and has an Executive independent of Beijing, all per the Basic Law. The protesters are acting against their own Executive. They are now calling for independence, from their own Executive. 

Tiananmen was a protest by a small group of mainland Chinese against their Executive. But theirs was not a call for independence; quite the opposite in fact.

Given the two groups are separated by jurisdiction, and their reasons for protest are entirely opposed, I should say the TN and HK protests are not "connected". Protests are occurring now in France and elsewhere, for many reasons common to the HK protests, with violence, with police aggression, with fatalities, and thus may be similar in nature; but I would not consider them to be "connected" to each other.  If they are connected, by people, source of funds, etc, this would be a good conspiracy story.

To assert Lam to be a puppet of Beijing is conjecture. I grant you she is demonstrably weak. But she is not alone. The entire Executive is weak and every member can be said to be a puppet of the interest group behind that member.  That is a fundamental problem in HK. HK is administered, not governed. 

 

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“Citizens of HK have their own passports.  No HK citizen I know calls her/himself a Chinese citizen.  That passport gives HK citizens many more rights and freedoms than any in the mainland.  So to label HKcitizens as Chinese citizens is not correct.“
 
If the above statement is factual and accurate, then why is the Chinese government bothered by what is happening in HK? Why did they desire to try HK judicial matters in China? Why are they threatening military intervention? Are you honestly trying to tell us that HK citizens do not fall under the umbrella of Chinese citizens?
This all comes down to the ‘loss of face’, which is to avoided at all cost in Chinese society. If that means a few kids in HK need to die, so be it. If the communist Chinese would make concessions regarding HK, they would lose face. They then fear that this loss of face would then embolden Taiwan to take a stronger approach to independence and global recognition.
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On 10/8/2019 at 8:50 AM, Michael Jones said:

Ive lived in HK since 2010. Prior to that I lived in Shanghai and Beijing. All the time in the oil and gas business.  For me this is all about disaffected youth and not a greater drive for freedom.  A youth with no clear future post 2047, who live at home with the parents and can never afford to buy a place of their own. Property leases expire in 2047 so you can not have a mortgage beyond that point.  HK needs to do more to develop low cost housing for all its people in the same way Singapore has with its HDB housing. 

HK needs a leader who sets a strategy for HK post 2047 and not led by administrators. It has for too long sat expecting the mainland to support it and gets preferential treatment from Beijing.  My view is that the strategy should be to preserve the one country two systems since it needs to preserve the rule of law (UK based), financial markets etc.  Otherwise HK would just be like any other PRC city, so why favour HK vs Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai etc? The GreaterBay development will not create more value in HK.  It just dilutes it.

With a clear strategy for the future HK should demonstrate the unique value that HK brings to China and actually seek to extend the one country two systems for a further 50 years.  

NB Im a Brit

Exactly.  To which I would add the so-called leaders of HK brought this upon themselves. For 30 years, the "elders" amassed huge wealth from their business activities at home, with PRC, and abroad. Fine, great business acumen. But in the process, they literally monopolised the land and buildings in HK, and created a housing crisis at exorbitant prices. Virtually none of their wealth has been invested back into HK for the next generation to create lasting prosperity. The selfishness and greed is reprehensible. With wealth comes the power to control politicians and the media, and thus turn attention away from themselves over to a convenient scapegoat. Rather than build and prepare HK for another 50 years of autonomy, they choose to foment chaos and take their money and run. Already, hundreds of $billions in liquidity have left HK. They claim to be concerned for HK, but actions speak louder than words. 

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Since this is banned in China and Hong Kong

bkfwjiE_d.thumb.jpg.c4d180875d6a1c8f0ddcecd35350d4d9.jpg

 

A local got creative

zgqpd7s4bfr31.thumb.jpg.3f86a267c0202c144beec6d34614fde3.jpg

 

But can that local do this one with leaves?  Because many western forums (like Reddit) are banning it today

khupx81z4fr31.jpg.332dc8665ea47591012414c5d5679721.jpg

 

Just remember, in China, dissent is not allowed.  And China is trying to enforce their intolerance of dissent onto Western media and forums.

 

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(edited)

12 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

And China is trying to enforce their intolerance of dissent onto Western media and forums.

 

Like this constant shit I'm seeing about the NBA ... how DARE people in the West have opinions about us?!!

#1984   What the hell is going on ??!!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nba-fan-booted-over-hong-kong-support-chinese-money-trumps-free-speech

Edited by DayTrader
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10 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Like this constant shit I'm seeing about the NBA ... how DARE people in the West have opinions about us?!!

#1984   

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nba-fan-booted-over-hong-kong-support-chinese-money-trumps-free-speech

What the hell is going on ??!!

To quote you: "What the hell is going on ??!!"

Presumably, you read the article you provide?  Allow me to show you in black and white what's going on, quoted from the article:

" "Beijing takes a zero-tolerance attitude to any perceived foreign interference in its internal affairs," said said Hugo Brennan, "

The spectator, a visitor to the country, should know the laws and customs: and this applies to any visitor to any country.  If one openly flaunts disrespect, one may expect a response from authorities and citizens. If one dislikes the local dynamics, why visit the country?  Was this spectator forced to visit China, or forced to attend the game? 

Frankly, you remind me of a spoiled teenager complaining against his parents. You use the word boring like a mantra. Is this the best you can do? 

 

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(edited)

The 'what the hell is going on' is in reference to the 1984 aspect above it. Sorry, the link is misplaced. I didn't realise the grammar police would be on my case. 

You remind me of a pro China troll who will defend their awful society and dictatorship and human rights record and pollution and killing its citizens and not allowing religion and and and and all day. You do this while ignoring 90% of people's points. 

Cheers. Goodbye. 

#zerotolerance  you said it ...  

P.S have a think why I call you ''boring''     I'm sure you can work it out 

Edited by DayTrader

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12 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Since this is banned in China and Hong Kong

bkfwjiE_d.thumb.jpg.c4d180875d6a1c8f0ddcecd35350d4d9.jpg

 

A local got creative

zgqpd7s4bfr31.thumb.jpg.3f86a267c0202c144beec6d34614fde3.jpg

 

But can that local do this one with leaves?  Because many western forums (like Reddit) are banning it today

khupx81z4fr31.jpg.332dc8665ea47591012414c5d5679721.jpg

 

Just remember, in China, dissent is not allowed.  And China is trying to enforce their intolerance of dissent onto Western media and forums.

 

"Just remember, in China, dissent is not allowed."   hmmm, 1/ if you are not in China and do not read the local newspapers, you would not know the local situation, and 2/ if your only knowledge comes from western presstitutes, then 3/ by definition are ignorant of it.  You may be surprised to learn the average number of protest cases reported by local police for the past 5 years is over 100,000, with no arrests of citizens when the protests are non-violent. These are at the local level, usually against the local authorities, but often escalate upwards to require the senior CCP involvement. True, the CCP will not tolerate open dissent against systemic changes, but change does occur via the "chain of command'.  One day in Shanghai should convince anyone of the changes during the past 20 years.  So to say, dissent is not allowed, is not entirely correct.  China is not a perfect system. Has your country a perfect system?

China is forcing intolerance onto western media?  I am unaware. Could you please elaborate on this? 

 

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Haha oh here we go... just amazing. @Tom Kirkman , unless you are there and read their very accurate unbiased newspapers you won't know the truth !!!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.   By the way Tom ...

image.png.18338c0e254c58ea2c239c6ecb02cad4.png

 

 

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14 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

The 'what the hell is going on' is in reference to the 1984 aspect above it. Sorry, the link is misplaced. I didn't realise the grammar police would be on my case. 

You remind me of a pro China troll who will defend their awful society and dictatorship and human rights record and pollution and killing its citizens and not allowing religion and and and and all day. You do this while ignoring 90% of people's points. 

Cheers. Goodbye. 

#zerotolerance  you said it ...  

P.S have a think why I call you ''boring''     I'm sure you can work it out 

Like a teenager, you seem unable to accept any opinion other than your own. Against fact, your response is to shout troll, as if your opinions and biases are the paradigm to which all should aspire. Like a teenager, you rant against religion in other posts, yet criticise a country for banning organised religion. ?  

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Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean people don't have the right to believe what they want.

Oh, are you in China? You won't understand anything about freedom. Nevermind.

Go back to your factual newspapers, while talking to others about ignoring facts and saying they're biased.  

If you said any opinions that weren't some horseshit agenda I may agree on some things. 

Honestly FF, you're hilarious.  

Cheers. 

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14 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Haha oh here we go... just amazing. @Tom Kirkman , unless you are there and read their very accurate unbiased newspapers you won't know the truth !!!  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.   By the way Tom ...

image.png.18338c0e254c58ea2c239c6ecb02cad4.png

 

 

Yet another teenage response.   uh, How can truth be revealed for anything, unless one is there, in the situation, confronting the situation, first hand?  Like a teenager, you see and judge the world via virtual reality? 

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Have you been to The Moon or Iraq or Antarctica?

If not you can't possibly know anything about it.

This is your logic.

''Unless you are in China and reading what they want you to, you won't know the truth.''

Brilliant.

Give it a rest troll. 

YOU are the one acting like a spoilt brat whose toys are out the pram. 

And it's still boring. Now shh. 

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3 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean people don't have the right to believe what they want.

Oh, are you in China? You won't understand anything about freedom. Nevermind.

Go back to your factual newspapers, while talking to others about ignoring facts and saying they're biased.  

If you said any opinions that weren't some horseshit agenda I may agree on some things. 

Honestly FF, you're hilarious.  

Cheers. 

so happy to read I am a source of humour for you.  makes my day.

"Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean people don't have the right to believe what they want."

So, when 1.399 billion people also disbelieve and choose to ban religion from their country, you criticise them for having no rights?  Bro, you need help.

 

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Oh did all the PEOPLE ban it? 

Why ban it if you don't believe anyway? 

Me : I don't believe, they have right to believe

China: We don't believe, but even if you want to, you can't.

I am blocking you. You are clearly a bit simple. 

 

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Just now, DayTrader said:

Have you been to The Moon or Iraq or Antarctica?

If not you can't possibly know anything about it.

This is your logic.

''Unless you are in China and reading what they want you to, you won't know the truth.''

Brilliant.

Give it a rest troll. 

YOU are the one acting like a spoilt brat whose toys are out the pram. 

And it's still boring. Now shh. 

Yet another teenage response.  gotta admire your perseverance. 

Absolutely true and agreed: I have never been to the moon.  What little I know of it comes from so-called scientists, who also know very little of it. One blind mouse educating another blind mouse.  I have no idea if anything I read about it is true; other than I know it to be present via my own observations through a telescope, and it appears to be globular. Thus, during the rare occasion, I never speak of it in absolute terms.

Obviously, you and I live by different paradigms.

In any case, I fail to see any connection between the moon and Hong Kong. ditto for Antarctica. 

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Yet another teenage response.   uh, How can truth be revealed for anything, unless one is there, in the situation, confronting the situation, first hand? 
 
If this is the case, then how can we believe anything presented by the mainstream media or venues such as this UNLESS WE ARE PHYSICALLY PRESENT AT THE TIME ANY EVENT IS OCCURRING?
 
I despise mainstream media, but I believe that I can read an article or watch a presentation and logically remove the spin and bias to get to facts.
 
For example, I am not in Syria at the moment, but I am fairly certain that Turkey will go on the offensive there shortly.
 
I will not be in the States next year, but I firmly believe that a Presidential election will happen there.
 
A little common sense goes a long way...you do not need to be physically at an event to form an opinion.
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(edited)

Exactly, I need to keep making this Moon / Iraq / NK point. But the best bit is ''unless you read the Chinese press you won't know the facts''

#simple

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

image.png.eddffc507dea2774d21f29b2a49d3470.png

Edited by DayTrader

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5 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

image.png.448e5d3a4790b13f80eacae7e81c7a3f.png

Wasn’t that quote originally attributed to Hustler magazine...🤔

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1 minute ago, DayTrader said:

Exactly, I need to keep making this Moon / Iraq / NK point. But the best bit is ''unless you read the Chinese press you won't know the facts''

#simple

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

image.png.eddffc507dea2774d21f29b2a49d3470.png

You are finally able to grasp the truth, young Jedi...

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