Tesla Will ‘Disappear’ Or ‘Lose 80%’ Of Its Value

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Do not get me wrong, I am all for better working conditions and wages, but to blatantly apply ‘our’ values to ‘them’ leads to consequences that may be even worse.

Consider this, if these workers suddenly demanded, and received, the US minimum wage, what impact would that have on the price of the product when it got to market? Would it still be competitive? Would demand shrink to the point where the factory/mine was no longer profitable and was forced to close? If the factory/mine closes then there are no jobs and these people are making no money.

 

This plays out over and over all the time:

-Multinational corporation finds a place where they can get super cheap labour and sets up a factory. 

-Workers benefit because a crap job is better than no job. 

-Over time the workers begin to realize they are being unreasonably exploited (massive profits yet no raises) so they strike or something.

-Multinational closes the factory and puts it up somewhere else. Repeat.

You can argue that they are better off for having had the factory at all, or that their greed ruined them.  However, there are other consequences (people move closer to the factory leaving behind the only way they subsisted before and can't go back etc.)

Ideally a middle ground could be found.  A reasonable living wage for that particular country (not a full US rate)  that still allows for profits.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This is going off topic a bit, but why do you feel that there is ‘blood on your hands’ if you happen to buy any item that contains cobalt?

Yeah, mostly.

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Are you making the assumption that your ‘demand’ is the root cause of the working conditions in the DRC?

It certainly feeds it.

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Do you feel the same concerning your clothing and sneakers produced in factories in Asia that do not adhere to US or EU safety regulations?

Yes.

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Do not get me wrong, I am all for better working conditions and wages, but to blatantly apply ‘our’ values to ‘them’ leads to consequences that may be even worse.

Would you have stood for a ten-year-old boy carrying 50# bags of drilling mud for 50 cents/hour on a drilling rig you worked on?

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Consider this, if these workers suddenly demanded, and received, the US minimum wage, what impact would that have on the price of the product when it got to market? Would it still be competitive?

Yes.

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Would demand shrink to the point where the factory/mine was no longer profitable and was forced to close?

No.

 

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Just food for thought and not meant to be a doctoral thesis...

I don't believe anyone would read your sad commentary and mistake it for a doctoral thesis.

[notsonice + 1,067]

A normal person would worry about where the cobalt came from. ?? Normal? I bet no one here who buys anything bothers to question the source of the materials on a daily basis.... Or do you think at the check out counter in any retail store that you stop and ask the clerk where the product was made and to detail who made it and the source of materials came from before you buy it? Excuse me ma'am does the  plastic used in making this toilet brush come from a trusted source? or did the oil come from a tanker truck of crude that ISIS sold on the black market? Normal people do not worry about every little item that comes across their path

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Who is most at fault, the prostitute, the pimp, or the John?  Anytime there is exploitation, an intermediate, and a buyer the same question arises. 

With prostitution the current law puts most blame on the pimp and John. 

Exploited woman = exploited natural resource

Pimp = mining company

John = consumer

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

Normal people do not worry about every little item that comes across their path

Only vegans, and that is abnormal.

[notsonice + 1,067]

54 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Only vegans, and that is abnormal.

thanks for the laugh.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

”Would you have stood for a ten-year-old boy carrying 50# bags of drilling mud for 50 cents/hour on a drilling rig you worked on?“

 

Yes, I would have. You need to take into account that the rigs I worked on were usually in ‘developing’ countries and that I had absolutely no say in the labor set-up or wage scheme in said country. You also need to take into account that “50 cents/hour” has much more purchasing power there as compared to wherever you are. Finally, you have to realize that this may be the only job available to him, or perhaps, any member of his family - he may be the ONLY ‘bread winner’!

 

So, what you do, as you cannot change the wage structure and are obviously too stupid to write a doctoral thesis, is simply hire more boys to haul 50 lb bags of mud, for 50 cents an hour, to put more money into the local community.

 

Of course, you being the sharpest knife in the drawer, you’ve already figured this out...

[Boat + 1,315]

Developed countries should have passed a living wage, decent working conditions, environment regulations decades ago if imports were to be allowed in by any country. International oligarchs won that battle and continue to do so. 
I mainly focus on trends to get a feel for the direction and speed of change. If you forget hybrids when thinking electric cars there were less than 2 million of them 3 years ago. Now one company is kicking out 500,000 per year. Several other companies are promising aggressive switches to electric. Captain Obvious would discount the chatter and sell his refinery while he can get a good price.

[notsonice + 1,067]

”Would you have stood for a ten-year-old boy carrying 50# bags of drilling mud for 50 cents/hour on a drilling rig you worked on?“

A youth 14- or 15-years-old can work in agriculture, on any farm, but only during hours when school is not in session and only in non-hazardous jobs. A youth 12 or 13 years of age, can work in agriculture on a farm only if a parent has given written permission or is working on the same farm. Anyone think a farm is a safe place for kids to work? Anyone here asking the grocer if any child labor was used in growing of the vegetables you ate this evening. PS the above law is OSHA/US  Law

Every three days, a child dies in an agriculture-related incident, and each day, 33 children are injured according to the 2016 Childhood Agricultural Injuries Fact Sheet compiled by the National Children’s Center for Rural and Agricultural Health and Safety in Marshfield, Wis.

The leading sources of fatalities are machinery (25%), motor vehicles/ATVs (17%) and drowning (16%).

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

 

You need to take into account that the rigs I worked on were usually in ‘developing’ countries and that I had absolutely no say in the labor set-up or wage scheme in said country.

So those nations lured you -and US technology- to their country?  You let them use US technology in exchange for money?

Spy

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 hours ago, notsonice said:

”Would you have stood for a ten-year-old boy carrying 50# bags of drilling mud for 50 cents/hour on a drilling rig you worked on?“

The thing is that some local company is being way more than 50 cents per hour for that boy. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially... that is the real issue. 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

7 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

So those nations lured you -and US technology- to their country?  You let them use US technology in exchange for money?

Spy

You are making the assumption that I was working for a US company when I was abroad...I was not.

Nice try though...

[notsonice + 1,067]

2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

The thing is that some local company is being way more than 50 cents per hour for that boy. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially... that is the real issue. 

 

I have worked overseas for years and never have seen 10 year or 12 year old or 14 year old kids ever working on site. Ever. How people on this chat can spin this to make a general statement such as yours is beyond belief. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially????? really????? DO you have anything to prove your statement??? Have you ever worked on a site where child labor was employed?????

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

13 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

”Would you have stood for a ten-year-old boy carrying 50# bags of drilling mud for 50 cents/hour on a drilling rig you worked on?“

 

Yes, I would have.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but no matter what you think of yourself or your work experiences, you need therapy.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

4 hours ago, notsonice said:

I have worked overseas for years and never have seen 10 year or 12 year old or 14 year old kids ever working on site. Ever. How people on this chat can spin this to make a general statement such as yours is beyond belief. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially????? really????? DO you have anything to prove your statement??? Have you ever worked on a site where child labor was employed?????

I have worked different places across the globe and you are right I have not seen child labour on any oil & gas PRODUCTION site. My point however, wasn't child labour. It was that multinational companies in the developing world turn a blind eye to business practices that are against their own policies. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

@Gerry Maddoux have you considered that moral / ethics on working conditions on its own is huge argument for LTO. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[notsonice + 1,067]

3 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I have worked different places across the globe and you are right I have not seen child labour on any oil & gas PRODUCTION site. My point however, wasn't child labour. It was that multinational companies in the developing world turn a blind eye to business practices that are against their own policies. 

You wrote....... The thing is that some local company is being way more than 50 cents per hour for that boy. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially... that is the real issue. .......From what I read you are stating IOCs and drilling companies are complicit in boys working and yet you offered no proof of any of it.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

6 minutes ago, notsonice said:

You wrote....... The thing is that some local company is being way more than 50 cents per hour for that boy. The IOCs and drilling companies know this, but they write long elaborate contracts that lets them close their eyes officially... that is the real issue. .......From what I read you are stating IOCs and drilling companies are complicit in boys working and yet you offered no proof of any of it.

I should have been clearer. 

I don't know if children is being exploited in oil & gas industry. Although I think it is the case in part of the supply chain (fabrication). what I do know is that any 100 page contract with an IOC or drilling company in the developing  has legal clauses stating all sort of moral / ethics. Clauses that would be easy to enforce. Yet, multinationals routinely turn a blind eye to business practices that are against their own policies. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but no matter what you think of yourself or your work experiences, you need therapy.

I really don’t give a damn what you think. 

[specinho + 440]

On 10/8/2019 at 12:58 AM, Adam Varga said:

According to Professor of Marketing at NYU Scott Galloway, Tesla is among several companies that could lose 80 percent or more of their value or disappear. And Tesla is not the only one on Galloway's list of disappearance. This list also includes  WeWork, Robinhood, Lyft, and OYO.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-elon-musk-disappear-lose-80-percent-value-nyu-professor/ 

 

On 10/8/2019 at 2:02 AM, Guest said:

Agreed, it's a joke, but sure Musk and plenty of others will chuck load more on the moneypit fire first. 

I thought Tesla was just around for people to short it?  A year ago it was $350, now it's $237.

If the value of a share is closed to 600 at the current status, it is a good time to sell, not short to reduce the value. Buy back shares to be solely owned by the family would be a good action. The reason simply is, a solely own company will usually do better because the money is privately owned. I tend to be more responsible of my own decisions, actions and will encertain the company is running smoothly generally, preferably with profits.

Electric cars have been in the market for more than 60 years (including solar cars since 50's or 60's). Read something the other day that every patented design can be available at registration office, like India. After so many years, the pioneers are still looking for ways to overcome the charging and grid issues and many more. It's trial and error. Large scale in hast could create unwanted side effects, and unmanageable problems. A step back might allow the processes to happen in well done manner on overall. Not in hast.

Edited February 4, 2020 by specinho

[notsonice + 1,067]

17 hours ago, specinho said:

 

If the value of a share is closed to 600 at the current status, it is a good time to sell, not short to reduce the value. Buy back shares to be solely owned by the family would be a good action. The reason simply is, a solely own company will usually do better because the money is privately owned. I tend to be more responsible of my own decisions, actions and will encertain the company is running smoothly generally, preferably with profits.

Electric cars have been in the market for more than 60 years (including solar cars since 50's or 60's). Read something the other day that every patented design can be available at registration office, like India. After so many years, the pioneers are still looking for ways to overcome the charging and grid issues and many more. It's trial and error. Large scale in hast could create unwanted side effects, and unmanageable problems. A step back might allow the processes to happen in well done manner on overall. Not in hast.

If the value of a share is closed to 600 at the current status, it is a good time to sell

 

that is alot of money left on the table as the shares are now at

 

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