Guest October 15, 2019 (edited) On 10/14/2019 at 4:03 AM, frankfurter said: In the old days, we called this a broken record. I'm having trouble getting over the irony of this sentence from the broken droid. You are confusing my sarcasm and comedy with anger, my passion with hate, my detail with a rant, and me for someone who values your opinion. https://community.oilprice.com/leaderboard/ Luckily others do not think as you do. Cheers. Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 15, 2019 57 minutes ago, DayTrader said: Won what exactly? The right to go back to China, Winnie wants more talks, and they're coming back? If you are following the discussion then you would know it was a negotiation round, and the photo suggests that one side was not too happy with the outcome...so maybe the Chinese delegation will revel in the next round at the poor US consumer's exPence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 15, 2019 (edited) Well that's where you got me, ''follow the discussion'' ... Wouldn't be surprised if Brexit and icebergs are mentioned. If you think I'm gonna bother going back through a bunch of unlimited nonsense and unrelated waffle you are mistaken mate... haha actually I do always go back a bit, but because I block certain people I can't be 100% where the chat has gone, but you get my point. I'm not sure any thread has stayed on topic longer than an hour. What I did read was that Trump will capitulate and you have just suggested rightly it was a 'negotiation round'. It seems they are happy in the picture, but Winnie clearly isn't as he wants more talks before anything is official. His opinion is the one that matters, seeing as he is the unelected ruler for life. So this 1 photo is pretty irrelevant in the bigger picture**. It's been 18 months and there will be many more I'm guessing, as well as many more rounds. And whatever happens and is agreed means nothing, in terms of what you sign and keeping your word, to one side anyway ... Stay tuned. ** assuming it's not photoshopped Edited October 16, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 It's also why China - the country where economic data is anything but what is represented by the government - has no qualms about fabricating data to refute a worst case scenario that would unleash a self-fulfilling prophecy leading to more devaluation and more capital flight. And yet, despite Beijing's best efforts at misdirection - and outright data fabrication - there is a relatively simple way to keep track of what is really happening with China's fund flows behind the scenes. As the WSJ notes, the relevant figure to track is China’s "errors and omissions" line in its balance of payments. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/panic-behind-scenes-chinas-capital-outflows-are-soaring Panic Behind The Scenes: China's Capital Outflows Are Soaring As the WSJ notes, Beijing's decision to allow its currency to offset the pressure from the trade war has been one of China’s key survival strategies so far, but "with increasing signs that the ocean of capital sloshing around behind China’s dike is finding new cracks—and out-of-control domestic food-price inflation adding to the stakes—that strategy is looking riskier." The second one is that with capital already fleeing China, any future attempts to boost China's economy using monetary policy will be promptly punished, which also explains why the world is sinking into recession: as a reminder, in a world where China has been the primary growth dynamo thanks to its tremendous credit impulse after the financial crisis, this massive credit creation mechanism has now shut down as Beijing runs the risk of an out-of-control capital flight should it push too hard to stimulate the local economy at the expense of another sharp devaluation in the yuan. In short, whereas the official data does not show it, reading between the lines suggests that the global economy may be on the verge of collapse. Thanks Pooh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 (edited) https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-economy-poll/trade-pressure-seen-denting-chinas-2019-growth-to-29-year-low-at-6-2-5-9-in-2020-reuters-poll-idUKKBN1WU0LP Trade pressure seen denting China's 2019 growth to 29-year low at 6.2%, 5.9% in 2020: Reuters poll https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-economy-inflation/chinas-factory-prices-post-steepest-fall-in-three-years-idUKKBN1WU05L China's factory prices post steepest fall in three years BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s factory gate prices declined at their fastest pace in more than three years in September, reinforcing the case for Beijing to unveil further stimulus as manufacturing cools on weak demand and U.S. trade pressures. Who is losing again? I can find these articles all day. La la la Edited October 16, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 (edited) Edited October 16, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, DayTrader said: It's also why China - the country where economic data is anything but what is represented by the government - has no qualms about fabricating data to refute a worst case scenario that would unleash a self-fulfilling prophecy leading to more devaluation and more capital flight. China's demise has been a regular source of journalistic license for the past 20 years, and all that has happened is that China now leads the world in so many areas and seems to be adding more still. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 So you don't agree with a Western article about China?? Well hold the front page, I'm shocked. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-trade/china-september-exports-imports-in-deeper-contraction-as-tariffs-take-toll-idUKKBN1WT07P Have another one anyway. China September exports, imports in deeper contraction as tariffs take toll BEIJING (Reuters) - A slide in China’s exports picked up pace in September while imports contracted for a fifth straight month, pointing to further weakness in the economy and underlining the need for more stimulus as the Sino-U.S. trade war drags on. Economists also attributed the export slowdown to a fading in the so-called “front-loading” effect. Some Chinese firms had rushed to ship goods to the United States ahead of the September deadline, supporting overall July and August export readings. “We expect shrinking exports will likely be one of the biggest drag on China’s economic growth in the coming months, as the tariff impact will be further in place, along with the pay-back effects,” said Ting Lu, chief China economist at Nomura. Total September imports fell 8.5% after August’s 5.6% decline, the lowest since May, and were expected to fall 5.2%. You get the idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 (edited) https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-autos/china-auto-sales-fall-in-golden-september-as-turnaround-hopes-fade-idUKKBN1WT0LO China auto sales fall in 'Golden September' as turnaround hopes fade BEIJING/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Auto sales in China fell for a 15th consecutive month in September, data from its biggest auto industry association showed, dampening hopes for a second-half turnaround in the world’s largest auto market. September and October, known as “Golden September, Silver October” by China’s auto insiders, are regarded as the high season for sales, with customers traditionally returning to make purchases after the summer. The association had previously said it expected sales in the second half to improve, but that overall annual sales would fall 5% year-on-year to 26.68 million vehicles in 2019. **Getting bored now, too easy to find this stuff. La la la Edited October 16, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 Ok, one more ... https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/shanghai-housing-sales-plunge-86-golden-week Shanghai Housing Sales Plunge 86% In Golden Week by Tyler Durden Tue, 10/15/2019 - 22:55 Authored by Mike Shedlock via MishTalk, Golden Week, a seven-day Chinese holiday, is traditionally a peak period for home sales. This year, sales plummeted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/worst-slump-generation-china-auto-sales-continue-historic-collapse "Worst Slump In A Generation": China Auto Sales Continue Historic Collapse by Tyler Durden Tue, 10/15/2019 - 23:55 #winnienohappy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, remake it said: China's demise has been a regular source of journalistic license for the past 20 years, and all that has happened is that China now leads the world in so many areas and seems to be adding more still. Well, why does Xi fly around in an American made aircraft? Which brings up the previous discussion concerning all those incredibly talented Chinese engineers. Apparently, according to China, they can produce first class fighter and bomber aircraft....but they somehow can’t design a commercial aircraft suitable for their leader! Talk about a loss of face! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 16, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: all those incredibly talented Chinese engineers They're too busy working on surveillance? #CCTV ''Unlike his colleagues who have multiple airplanes, General Secretary of the Communist Party of China, Xi Jinping does not own a personal aircraft. The leader of the People’s Republic of China uses two Boeing 747-400’s belonging to Air China airlines'' Edited October 16, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: Well, why does Xi fly around in an American made aircraft? Which brings up the previous discussion concerning all those incredibly talented Chinese engineers. Apparently, according to China, they can produce first class fighter and bomber aircraft....but they somehow can’t design a commercial aircraft suitable for their leader! Talk about a loss of face! China has not raced into first world production capabilities, but instead focused on bread and butter items, so let's all see how long it takes before they have commercial passenger craft such as C919s in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 They have rushed into production of supposedly first rate military aircraft and equipment, usually by stealing the R&D of other countries (J20) or reverse engineering (look at their EXACT copies of Russian aircraft). These are NOT ‘bread and butter’ projects. Once they do field the C919, I have a nasty feeling that they will not find an international market for it due to lack of faith in Chinese engineering, design and fabrication...which is likely why Xi flies Boeings. Yes, they have a space program....is that considered ‘bread and butter’? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: They have rushed into production of supposedly first rate military aircraft and equipment, usually by stealing the R&D of other countries (J20) or reverse engineering (look at their EXACT copies of Russian aircraft). These are NOT ‘bread and butter’ projects. Once they do field the C919, I have a nasty feeling that they will not find an international market for it due to lack of faith in Chinese engineering, design and fabrication...which is likely why Xi flies Boeings. Yes, they have a space program....is that considered ‘bread and butter’? If you want to talk about China's defense capabilities, then start a new thread as this one is about the so called "trade war," and your points are not on the bargaining table. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 Apparently YOU did not drift off topic earlier, when you mentioned the C919. I guess this only becomes an issue when you fail to have a logical, reasoned rebuttal. Carry on.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: Apparently YOU did not drift off topic earlier, when you mentioned the C919. I guess this only becomes an issue when you fail to have a logical, reasoned rebuttal. Carry on.... 6 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: Which brings up the previous discussion concerning all those incredibly talented Chinese engineers. Apparently, according to China, they can produce first class fighter and bomber aircraft....but they somehow can’t design a commercial aircraft suitable for their leader! The C919 has been designed as a commercial passenger plane and has already been flown in tests, and may well be something Xi uses in the future, so your claim about commercial aircraft design was not true - remembering of course that it was you who opened the door to your abuse of reasoning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 So, in the past 70 years, China could not develop and manufacture a single, commercially successful civilian airliner. They now have one in the testing phase which MAY be utilized by Xi in the future. I suppose you are correct, this shows a healthy engineering culture and that China is right up there with other nations who have been designing, building and flying commercial aircraft since before modern China existed! Good reasoning pal! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remake it + 288 October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: So, in the past 70 years, China could not develop and manufacture a single, commercially successful civilian airliner. They now have one in the testing phase which MAY be utilized by Xi in the future. I suppose you are correct, this shows a healthy engineering culture and that China is right up there with other nations who have been designing, building and flying commercial aircraft since before modern China existed! Good reasoning pal! Go and practice your nonsensical posts elsewhere: bait and switch is exceptionally poor logic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 October 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: They have rushed into production of supposedly first rate military aircraft and equipment, usually by stealing the R&D of other countries (J20) or reverse engineering (look at their EXACT copies of Russian aircraft). These are NOT ‘bread and butter’ projects. Once they do field the C919, I have a nasty feeling that they will not find an international market for it due to lack of faith in Chinese engineering, design and fabrication...which is likely why Xi flies Boeings. Yes, they have a space program....is that considered ‘bread and butter’? Yeah because Boeing's Never have any problems! Not the time to be bragging about US aerospace engineers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, remake it said: Go and practice your nonsensical posts elsewhere: bait and switch is exceptionally poor logic. You pussy!😂 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Enthalpic said: Yeah because Boeing's Never have any problems! Not the time to be bragging about US aerospace engineers... You can’t have a problem IF YOU DON’T BUILD ANY AIRCRAFT! Don’t need alot of ‘aerospace’ engineers either... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 October 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: You can’t have a problem IF YOU DON’T BUILD ANY AIRCRAFT! Don’t need alot of ‘aerospace’ engineers either... True, and the planes can't crash if we don't even let them take off. Boeing has made some great stuff; but now is not the time for bragging about their safety superiority. "We make the safest planes, please ignore the groundings and over 300 dead in less then 2 years. America! Fuc* Yeah!" Edited October 16, 2019 by Enthalpic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 16, 2019 I didn’t say a damn thing about safety! I said you can’t have problems, with safety, or anything else, if you do not build any aircraft! Pointing out Boeing’s recent problem with the 737’s is pointless when you are comparing them with a non-entity! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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