ABC of Brexit, economy wise, where to find sites, links to articles ?

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

12 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

It is low income people who are most affected by mass immigration, they do not get any benefits for example

• More competition for low skilled work
• Increasing house prices beyond their means
• Less access to doctors and hospitals
• Shortage of school places

We have similar "issues" if you will in Denmark. The counter to this in my view is

1) Competetion is good if is same pay for same for same work, which by law it has to be here. 

2) In Denmark some labour intensive business like AG find it impossible to recruit danes. Danes consider this below them. 

3) EU citizens working in Denmark pay tax in Denmark

17 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

We did not build the infrastructure to cope with the extra millions of people that came here and that does have an effect on the poorest people less so for the middle classes.

pls don't take this the wrong way - but is the reason for not insufficient investment in the infrastructure? Assuming the immigrants are working and paying tax. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

9 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

 pls don't take this the wrong way - but is the reason for not insufficient investment in the infrastructure? Assuming the immigrants are working and paying tax. 

The reason as far as I can see it is that there were big gains to be made for the economy/companies by depressing wages to increase profit because they didn't have to pay for the infrastructure. If they had to pay more corporation tax to help build all the extra roads, hospitals and schools I'm not so sure there would have been a net gain.

Just to be clear I have no problem with educated immigration when it does benefit the country although I find it morally wrong to steal doctors from developing countries. I do have a problem with low skilled immigration which hurts the poor, until unemployment is virtually zero we shouldn't need more. We should be helping people into work and make companies pay better wages.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

If they had to pay more corporation tax to help build all the extra roads, hospitals and schools I'm not so sure there would have been a net gain.

 

5 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

 I do have a problem with low skilled immigration which hurts the poor, until unemployment is virtually zero we shouldn't need more. We should be helping people into work and make companies pay better wages.

I generally agree. But there is a balance - create the wrong climate and businesses will not flourish. It is not a given that companies can pay more and remember - the competetion is Asia. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

17 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

 

I generally agree. But there is a balance - create the wrong climate and businesses will not flourish. It is not a given that companies can pay more and remember - the competetion is Asia. 

I agree there needs to be balance,  I think that is why there is an attempt at addressing trade imbalances and using tariffs against countries that don't value the welfare of their people. I've no idea if it will work but there was a time when it was possible for a working man to have a family and children on one wage and that seems pretty much impossible these days for most people which surely means wages are going down or stagnating even though productivity has been rising for decades.

 

[Auson + 123]

On 10/16/2019 at 5:49 PM, DayTrader said:

Yeah that would be a bonus. Honestly man, when I was a kid, a story about a stabbing would be a huge event, like maybe some annual thing that was shocking. Now it's like standard news from London (which I avoid like the plague anyway) and some gang crap.

''Gone to the dogs'' comes to mind. Bring on Brexit.

Yep, nothing better to do clearly. ''I wanna be called Zee'', ''I identify as an octopus'' .... 

''Ooh ok well I better listen then to this important gold''

I saw a headline the other day that was like ''64 year old man wants to legally change his age to 47''

We are f**king doomed as a race I swear.

Day Trader,

You must have grown up somewhere nice then, I grew up in BIrmingham and there were quite a few knives about back then, mostly Stanley, flick or lock type so it was more slashings than stabbings. Admittedly it wasn't on the level of today but there were quite a few violent events going on. Perhaps I just went to all the wrong places.

[Guest]

Just now, Auson said:

Perhaps I just went to all the wrong places.

Haha yeah maybe mate. I'm from Poole on south coast.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

2 hours ago, Auson said:

Day Trader,

You must have grown up somewhere nice then, I grew up in BIrmingham and there were quite a few knives about back then, mostly Stanley, flick or lock type so it was more slashings than stabbings. Admittedly it wasn't on the level of today but there were quite a few violent events going on. Perhaps I just went to all the wrong places.

South Manc here it was pretty rough but no where as bad as today...maybe my rose tinted spectacles are misted up though.

Born in Sheffield, grew up in Kidderminster until 79 then moved 'up norf'...found it pretty rough at school to be honest, lots of fights etc.

It's true it wasn't perfect but I think we had a more high trust society back then but the rot has already set in. The good old days are before my time I think, my gran was from the East End of London and she used to always tell us how they could leave their doors unlocked etc etc...the criminals never 'crapped' on their own door step.

I don't see this country getting better any time soon, I believe we've thrown away everything that used to hold a society together which was religion, family values and patriotism.

[Auson + 123]

11 hours ago, El Nikko said:

South Manc here it was pretty rough but no where as bad as today...maybe my rose tinted spectacles are misted up though.

Born in Sheffield, grew up in Kidderminster until 79 then moved 'up norf'...found it pretty rough at school to be honest, lots of fights etc.

It's true it wasn't perfect but I think we had a more high trust society back then but the rot has already set in. The good old days are before my time I think, my gran was from the East End of London and she used to always tell us how they could leave their doors unlocked etc etc...the criminals never 'crapped' on their own door step.

I don't see this country getting better any time soon, I believe we've thrown away everything that used to hold a society together which was religion, family values and patriotism.

El Nikko,

I don't disagree with any of that, it is now an epidemic. Yes the good old days in the East End of London, its crazy how old Granny Kray could leave her doors and windows unlocked with valuables on display day and night and no one ever touched them.

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

I'm from sunny Wolverhampton. Its lovely round here full of Portuguese footballers! 😂

Seriously though my best friend is a police inspector in South Staffs and he cant wait to get out and wishes he had never joined the force.

He says violent crime is through the roof and they have a fraction of the resource they did 20 years ago.

My nan always said the same about leaving the doors unlocked etc

[Guest]

yeah mine too, just can't think what changed in last 40 years

oh wait ... 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

22 hours ago, El Nikko said:

I agree there needs to be balance,  I think that is why there is an attempt at addressing trade imbalances and using tariffs against countries that don't value the welfare of their people. I've no idea if it will work

I think that Trump deserves credit for effectively bringing China on the agenda. I also think that if he had spent getting Europe on board with tarifs then we could have achieved something. I can't see the art of the deal. I can see a lot of grand standing, and I am sure it gets him popularity. I do however doubt the longterm results as opposed to what could have been achieved together. 

22 hours ago, El Nikko said:

there was a time when it was possible for a working man to have a family and children on one wage and that seems pretty much impossible these days for most people which surely means wages are going down or stagnating even though productivity has been rising for decades.

I think it also has to with peoples expectations. Atleast in Denmark you can live a family on 1 salary. But obviously the kids won't have the newest Iphones etc. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

He says violent crime is through the roof and they have a fraction of the resource they did 20 years ago.

Maybe violent crime is up because they have a fraction of the resource?

And maybe some clever politician finds a way to blame it on the EU rather than lack of funding. Just sayin'. For clarity - I still think the vote should be respected,. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

16 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Maybe violent crime is up because they have a fraction of the resource?

And maybe some clever politician finds a way to blame it on the EU rather than lack of funding. Just sayin'. For clarity - I still think the vote should be respected,. 

 

The UK police force has grown and grown over the decades, it was much smaller 30 or 40 years ago but we didn't have the violence epidemic we do today. 20 years ago they didn't have a fraction of the armed response units, helicopters and intelligence resources they do today. It just comes down to how they spend their money.

Saddly it has become politicised, I believe the Met alone has 3000 'officers' dealing with 'hate crimes' which is basically mean tweets and facebook posts. I don't think that is an effective use of their time nor tax payer's money. Nor is hiring diversity officers on 50-60 k per year or any of the other stupid beurocratic positions. It needs to be streamlined and focus on the crimes that affect people the most...not sure if you know this but if you get broken in to there is little chance that they will turn up, at best 24-48 hours later even if the victim is old.

My advice for anyone who is getting broken into would not be to ring 999 but get right on facebook and say something racist/mysogenistic and your door will come flying off it's hinges within 30 minutes.

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Maybe violent crime is up because they have a fraction of the resource?

And maybe some clever politician finds a way to blame it on the EU rather than lack of funding. Just sayin'. For clarity - I still think the vote should be respected,. 

Haha Rasmus you really want us to stay dont you!

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

3 hours ago, El Nikko said:

 

The UK police force has grown and grown over the decades, it was much smaller 30 or 40 years ago but we didn't have the violence epidemic we do today. 20 years ago they didn't have a fraction of the armed response units, helicopters and intelligence resources they do today. It just comes down to how they spend their money.

Saddly it has become politicised, I believe the Met alone has 3000 'officers' dealing with 'hate crimes' which is basically mean tweets and facebook posts. I don't think that is an effective use of their time nor tax payer's money. Nor is hiring diversity officers on 50-60 k per year or any of the other stupid beurocratic positions. It needs to be streamlined and focus on the crimes that affect people the most...not sure if you know this but if you get broken in to there is little chance that they will turn up, at best 24-48 hours later even if the victim is old.

My advice for anyone who is getting broken into would not be to ring 999 but get right on facebook and say something racist/mysogenistic and your door will come flying off it's hinges within 30 minutes.

My house was broken into 4 months ago, the police came round with a forensics van.

I nearly sh*t myself I was so surprised!

On the other hand my work was broken into as well 2 months ago and the 2 burglars faces were clearly visible on CCTV but the police just gave us a crime number and told us to claim on the insurance!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Haha Rasmus you really want us to stay dont you!

Nah he respects the vote and realises England is pretty amazing. He's only human.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Haha Rasmus you really want us to stay dont you!

 

52 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Nah he respects the vote and realises England is pretty amazing. He's only human.

Actually - I want to you to leave with a no deal. I believe that EU is Europe best shot at standing up against China. But it needs to be a strong functioning EU. Enough time has been wasted with Brexit. I believe that financial benefits to being in the Union far outweighs the cost. And I believe that needs to made apparent. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 hours ago, El Nikko said:

The UK police force has grown and grown over the decades, it was much smaller 30 or 40 years ago but we didn't have the violence epidemic we do today. 20 years ago they didn't have a fraction of the armed response units, helicopters and intelligence resources they do today. It just comes down to how they spend their money.

I agree. And this sums up my issue with a lot of this debate. EU gets blamed for all sorts of stuff that it does not deserve the blame for. Respect the vote without question. But also be honest about that leaving is not a quick fix. This goes for many European countries by the way. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Just now, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I agree. And this sums up my issue with a lot of this debate. EU gets blamed for all sorts of stuff that it does not deserve the blame for. Respect the vote without question. But also be honest about that leaving is not a quick fix. This goes for many European countries by the way. 

I agree that leaving the EU won't fix much, we still need some real politicians who will enact the change needed to fix this country. It might be right that they were just blaiming the EU for things they didn't really want to fix.

If the Boris Johnson deal is passed (I think it was) this is going to drag on for years if not decades because it doesn't take us completely out of the EU and ties us to regulation etc. If I were the EU I would throw us out with no deal so they can move on because rightly or wrongly people are going to blame the EU and our own useless cretinous MPs.

Delay to Brexit is on the cards which I really didn't think would happen. We are going to have to try to force a general election somehow.

 

[Guest]

Think that's what BJ is going for

Edited October 22, 2019 by Guest

[Marcin + 519]

40 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

 

Actually - I want to you to leave with a no deal. I believe that EU is Europe best shot at standing up against China. But it needs to be a strong functioning EU. Enough time has been wasted with Brexit. I believe that financial benefits to being in the Union far outweighs the cost. And I believe that needs to made apparent. 

Yes exactly. My helical logic would say that it is also best for unity of EU that Britain leaves as fast as possible. Britain would 100% want to join again in maximum 2-3 years. And EU will agree. I want to have this mess over as quickly as possible with 2015 status quo again. On the upside think about this as a learning experience for Britain, on the downside why we have to be engaged so much with this petulant child, Britain and loose so much money and effort.

Unfortunately @Rasmus JorgensenI have different opinion about standing up against China. Germany has own strong business interests in China and have privileged treatment. But united we stand.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

37 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Think that's what BJ is going for

I hope you're right but I fear that is extremely optimistic

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Marcin said:

Britain would 100% want to join again in maximum 2-3 years. And EU will agree.

You got any more of those?

[El Nikko + 2,145]

[Guest]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/brexit-in-the-balance-johnson-warns-parliament-ahead-of-crunch-votes-idUKKBN1X10K0 

Over to EU on Brexit delay, Johnson says after parliament rejects swift decision

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Tuesday it was up to the EU to decide whether it wanted to delay Brexit and for how long, after a defeat in parliament made ratification of his deal by the Oct. 31 deadline almost impossible.