Yesterday Angela Merkel stopped Trump technology war on China – the moral of the story is do not eavesdrop on ladies with high ethical standards

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

55 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Since Israel is apparently misbehaving towards the Palestinians, we can spy on them.

The more proper response is to sever diplomatic relations and send their Ambassador packing, and not be some sniveling coward as for example Mr. Obama was, in allowing Mr. Netanyahu to take the stage in the Rose Garden and denigrate Americans and the US Government in some bilious rant for twenty minutes, as he so disgracefully did, with Obama standing there in polite attention.  What you do, if you are a Leader, is cut off that mike, and have the Secret Service grab him by two arms and hustle him out onto the sidewalk outside, and be told to leave the country within 24 hours.  Try to have some backbone, please. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

I would not go so far as to say that, because adversaries behave poorly, therefor you too can be a total pig.  For example, I am not promoting lining up POWs on their knees and then beheading by sword, just because the enemy does.  But it does mean that for example ISIS fighters have vacated their claim to Vienna Accords standards of treatment.  Basically, those are now outlaws, and as outlaws can have a price put on their heads, dead or alive.  An argument can be made that you demean your moral standards by taking that view (of the enemy having been declared an outlaw); then again, I rather doubt that anyone who is prepared to slit the throat of some journalist out in the desert and then continue to manually cut his head off in order to be sensational on the YouTube, has lost any claim to POW treatment, and is beyond rehabilitation, and thus is fair game to be shot dead on sight.  

You are missing my point. If some nation/state is acting poorly towards another nation/state, not you, does this allow YOU to misbehave towards the aggressor although no harm was actually done to YOU?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You are missing my point. If some nation/state is acting poorly towards another nation/state, not you, does this allow YOU to misbehave towards the aggressor although no harm was actually done to YOU?

You have raised a very interesting, nuanced and subtle, intellectual question.  And I do not have an Answer to that.  I think it comes down to the moral sensibility of your Leadership,   in uncertain times and in uncertain situations, the People Assembled have to rely on the wisdom and courage of their Leadership.  

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

You have raised a very interesting, nuanced and subtle, intellectual question.  And I do not have an Answer to that.  I think it comes down to the moral sensibility of your Leadership,   in uncertain times and in uncertain situations, the People Assembled have to rely on the wisdom and courage of their Leadership.  

Or, As Mr. Trump would say,  "Go with your gut instincts."   He seems rather good at that. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Jan van Eck

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

11 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Are you further suggesting that the Palestinians are blameless?

I was not intending to suggest that, but in retrospective analysis, that would be the case for the bulk of the Palestinian population.  I would be excluding the hothead cadres inside Hamas and Hezbollah. Those guys are seriously off the wall.

[Guest]

It's truly amazing where a thread about Merkel can take you.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

8 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

It's truly amazing where a thread about Merkel can take you.

 

Well, what do you want, it is a quarter to four in the morning and the brain will tend to wander.....

[Marcin + 519]

8 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

There was no "right" to spy.  They did it anyway.  I suspect what happens is that the people delegated with the job of keeping an eye on foreign leaders, and potential rivals to the USA, end up losing their moral guides along the way.  The vision of someone running up to the US Secretary of State of the day with the exultant "Look at this!  We have tapped into Merkel's cell phone!" is just disgraceful.  I can assure you that if I were the President and I received such a Report, those responsible would be having breakfast the next morning with the mujaheddin in Guantanamo.

There is no excuse for bad behaviour anywhere, and in my business, I fire anyone who goes there. Out the door you go.  Mikhail and Svetlana, take careful note. 

Your moral features disqualify you from any major public office, although make you great person.

Apart from political gains industrial espionage on Germans is a great boost to technology development.

I hope that here at oilprice nobody is naive, i am sorry innocent enough to state that industrial espionage is Chinese-only profession, US is great in this, actually the best, with that NSA, Pentagon, CIA budgets you should be.

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So you think the CIA/NSA/Pentagon are actively engaged in industrial espionage on countries, China for example, who are years behind the US technologically?

Something appears to be wrong with your logic.

I firmly believe that the US SHOULD be actively engaged in spying on Ducati, Triumph, KTM and a few others in an effort to assist Harley in developing more sports oriented bikes for younger riders...as an aside.😂

[Marcin + 519]

Remember that everybody needs Israeli-Palestinian conflict, very, very convenient conflict at a very convenient geographical place. If there was no Israeli-Palestinian conflict it should have been created, or other similar one.

Make one step back and ask yourself a simple question: Why a conflict about 8000 km2 of arid, inhospitable land is so globally important ?

The conflict is beneficial for every major power: US, China, Russia and Arab countries, each country in the specific, different way is interested in having it and occasionally flaring it up if it somehow, unfortunately becomes more dormant.

The moment US & China decide that they want peace in Israel and Palestine it would take maximum 6 months to completely make the place peaceful and solve all the disputes. US,China and Russia together could totally subjugate all Gulf countries economically, militarily and politically in 3 months. They could make it in elegant way: choose 1 country and jail the government in some Guantanamo style place in 3 days and ask the rest if they would comply.

So when Israeli-Palestinian conflict in no longer needed it will be solved.

[Marcin + 519]

Just now, Douglas Buckland said:

So you think the CIA/NSA/Pentagon are actively engaged in industrial espionage on countries, China for example, who are years behind the US technologically?

Something appears to be wrong with your logic.

I firmly believe that the US SHOULD be actively engaged in spying on Ducati, Triumph, KTM and a few others in an effort to assist Harley in developing more sports oriented bikes for younger riders...as an aside.😂

There are many technologies where China is already on par or more advanced than United States. But I think it is done accross the board without preferences, only more resource to more promising/important countries.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

”There are many technologies where China is already onpar or more advanced than United States.”

 

Okay, if there are so many, name five and give supporting evidence.

[Guest]

and 5G isn't 5

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

She is not setting up explicit govt Orders to personnel to separate migrant families, deport the parents, and put the children in wire cages, now is she?  In all candor, the Americans have failed miserably in maintaining the USA as the Beacon of Liberty.  Just disgraceful.

If you wish to ponder high ethical standards, I invite you to view the personal and political conduct of the King of the Netherlands, King Willem Alexander.  Now, there is a Leader totally beyond reproach. 

In today's news...

https://news.yahoo.com/ice-program-exposes-hundreds-fraudulent-124126695.html

[Hotone + 412]

6 hours ago, DayTrader said:

and 5G isn't 5

Does 3G, 4G and 5G count as 3 or 1? There is HSR, consumer drones and battery technology.  Does bridge building count? (Graham Allison gave an example of a bridge taking 4 years and being 3 times over budget to repair in the US vs 43 hours in China, and other than that, there are breathtaking bridges in China).  I read somewhere that China is ahead on quantum communications, but not sure if something experimental counts.  What about Surveillance technology? Shenzhen is pretty much the silicon valley of electronics hardware and I am sure many things made there can't be made in the US at affordable prices.

I work in the IT services profession and based on my experience, I agree with you that the Chinese really suck in this area.  The Indians are pretty good, but may have some cultural impediments.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Hotone

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Hotone said:

a bridge taking 4 years and being 3 times over budget to repair in the US vs 43 hours in China, and other than that, there are breathtaking bridges in China

I'm sure there are, like their infrastructure that collapsed and killed people the other day. I posted link about it. It was the same week a gas explosion killed people in a restaurant in the same city.

Go go go go go think later.

Speed isn't good if shoddy.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Guest

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

8 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The more proper response is to sever diplomatic relations and send their Ambassador packing, and not be some sniveling coward as for example Mr. Obama was, in allowing Mr. Netanyahu to take the stage in the Rose Garden and denigrate Americans and the US Government in some bilious rant for twenty minutes, as he so disgracefully did, with Obama standing there in polite attention.  What you do, if you are a Leader, is cut off that mike, and have the Secret Service grab him by two arms and hustle him out onto the sidewalk outside, and be told to leave the country within 24 hours.  Try to have some backbone, please. 

You mean after Obama so disgracefully denigrated and smeared Israel with lies.

Uh, ok. 

If you want "equivalency", for the west bank Palestinians, then you would welcome Israel shutting off the west banks water and power they give them free of charge via the USA tax dollars?  Or should I say, paid for by the USA....

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

6 hours ago, DayTrader said:

and 5G isn't 5

And it was created right here in the USA and all it is is a protocol for backbone architecture.  Everything the consumer wants is already implemented in 4G+

[Marcin + 519]

2 hours ago, Hotone said:

Does 3G, 4G and 5G count as 3 or 1? There is HSR, consumer drones and battery technology.  Does bridge building count? (Graham Allison gave an example of a bridge taking 4 years and being 3 times over budget to repair in the US vs 43 hours in China, and other than that, there are breathtaking bridges in China).  I read somewhere that China is ahead on quantum communications, but not sure if something experimental counts.  What about Surveillance technology? Shenzhen is pretty much the silicon valley of electronics hardware and I am sure many things made there can't be made in the US at affordable prices.

I work in the IT services profession and based on my experience, I agree with you that the Chinese really suck in this area.  The Indians are pretty good, but may have some cultural impediments.

Thank you for the very good answer, I hope @Douglas Buckland accepts this.

I could add electricity transmission and some subsectors of electricity generation (apart from nuclear). I am economist so not that easy to precisely name technologies, but Chinese are certainly the best in fast, cheap, smart building of all types infrastructure.

In some areas they are league of their own. Building more bridges, tunnels, high speed rail than rest of the world combined.

Building 3 times for metro than the rest of the world combined (New York + London in metro lines every year). Now 3 Chinese metro systems in first 3 places by length, 5 in 10 etc. In 2025 taking under consideration only lines already under construction, Chinese cities will occupy first 9 places by length, 10th will New Delhi metro and London/New York and Moscow on postions 11-13.

@Hotone Value of Chinese IT services market is many times the value of Indian IT services, do not remember exact number but sth like 4-5 times. The difference is China does much less outsourcing for Western IT companies as wages are fast approaching Western Europe/US and they have ambitious local market. And Indians are pretty good in IT mainly because they are much cheaper. Their hourly rates for most popular positions in software projects are 2-3 times lower than German, Austrian, French or British rates. But the difference diminishes as it seems all talent pool in places like Chennai are already utilized. Efficiency based cost of Indian workforce in IT is still 0.6-0.7 of projects with Western staffing.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Marcin
spelling

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

Yes: Railroad is best for masses of humanity living very close to one another.  Everywhere else?  Railroads are pathetic. 

If the USA doubles in population, then yes, railroads for local transportation will make a massive comeback......  Until then, they are not economical. 

PS: China gets things done "cheap" due to several things:

1. No private ownership of land
2. No permits required,
3. No Lawyers and No NIMBY's because of #1 and #2, 
4. No regulations enforced even though they copied them from the west
5. Dirt cheap labor with zero labor laws
6. So, west can get same "cheap" infrastructure if you just follow the Chinese slave model...  Of course what they do not tell you is
7. Vast bribery and corruption leading to horrible build quality so in a couple of years you have to replace everything

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

China gets things done "cheap"

Exactly. Cheap and quick does not mean good, as highlighted in number 7.

Think number 4 was my favourite though haha   🤣

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

15 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Exactly. Cheap and quick does not mean good, as highlighted in number 7.

Think number 4 was my favourite though haha   🤣

Yup: Had a Business associate who had his naivete thoroughly washed from his system when he tried going in with a partnership in China(idiot had everything stolen later) and being a western guy, he gets over there and starts asking about regulations permits etc and all the Chinese look at him like he has lost it until of course you try to get anything done...... as the ONLY way to get something done is to BRIBE the top official in said district who may or may not demand adherence to said regulations if they decide the bribe is not "appropriate".... and being a western guy he did not want to give said bribe and asked for the regulation to adhere to instead.... The Chinese officials finally came up with said regulation: it literally came to him in English straight out of the IBC from the ICC..........🤣  and no, after building the building and adhering to western regulation he still was not Ok'd to start producing... Who knew <<SHOCKER>>  Officials need their guanxi after all...

[Marcin + 519]

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Yes: Railroad is best for masses of humanity living very close to one another.  Everywhere else?  Railroads are pathetic. 

If the USA doubles in population, then yes, railroads for local transportation will make a massive comeback......  Until then, they are not economical. 

PS: China gets things done "cheap" due to several things:

1. No private ownership of land
2. No permits required,
3. No Lawyers and No NIMBY's because of #1 and #2, 
4. No regulations enforced even though they copied them from the west
5. Dirt cheap labor with zero labor laws
6. So, west can get same "cheap" infrastructure if you just follow the Chinese slave model...  Of course what they do not tell you is
7. Vast bribery and corruption leading to horrible build quality so in a couple of years you have to replace everything

I don't know for me this railroad unsuitability for United States smells like sour grapes. It must be tough to be clogged in traffic and later at major airport waiting for 1hour flight to nearby city or riding Amtrak, and thinking that these Chinese slaves make the same 300 miles distance not in  6 hours, but in 2 hours and in cute trains.

The same about this China crap infrastructue thing 1-7 arguments.

4000 km of crappy metro, 30000 km of high speed rail, 30000 km of UHV DC transmission lines, 150,000 km of freeways, 10000 km of railroad tunnels, 10000 of dams, 10000 km of road tunnels all built in latest 15-20 years.

A lot of crap and imagine the danger of 1400 million people using it everyday.

Lucky US, have not built 3% of this in the same time period, no danger.

(sarcasm notice)

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Marcin

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Marcin said:

(sarcasm notice)

Hahah thanks. Why are you ignoring his 7 points and just saying it's sour grapes though? They are all valid points. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

1 hour ago, Marcin said:

I don't know for me this railroad unsuitability for United States smells like sour grapes. It must be tough to be clogged in traffic and later at major airport waiting for 1hour flight to nearby city or riding Amtrak,

Only the very few major USA cities with a tiny portion of the population have Shit infrastructure as they are all Democrat strongholds where no one gives a shit about fixing anything or efficiency. Too busy handing out condoms to 6 year olds.  Any USA medium or small size city has airport wait times of less than 30 minutes with a car rental center adjacent where you can pick up a car and go where YOU want in less than 15 minutes after picking up your checked bags. 

My trip from Bellingham WA to Burbank takes 2 hour flight time and 15 minute check in time and 30 minutes waiting for luggage at other end and a 10 minute walk + checkout for rental car to go where I want... Total time to travel 1200miles... ~3 hours.  Good luck doing that in Europe... oh right, everyone does do that in Europe as they fly but fewer airports in EUrope which means bigger airports which means LONG wait times.    Oh and when I go to Dayton Ohio... you know, rural Dayton Ohio(2000miles away) and the prosthetic manufacturer is literally out in the middle of a corn field far from any city as land is cheap for rural manufacturers just as it is in Europe.... try getting there on a train.🙄

RR only makes sense between large cities less than 300miles apart and then you have to get from the train to where you want to go.....  Good luck on that.  Oh and all the business folks traveling that distance?  Can do the same thing by just SKYPE video conferencing.  So that leaves only people on holiday as the manufacturing centers are not in major cities.  At least that is true here in the USA.  Maybe Europeans love living next to gigantic chemical plants which could kill them all when Murphy shows up. 

EDIT: Eastern USA seaboard, trains make sense and in a few dense cities like Chicago.  Once again, it all comes down to population density.  High density: trains make sense. 

EDIT#2: If you place the infrastructure into 100+++++ year pay back period, for low density portions of a country then High speed RR makes sense.  From a normal financial pay back period where you have to actually PAY your workers and PAY for the land right of way?  No. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by footeab@yahoo.com