UK Will Not Extend Brexit Transition Period

[Marcin + 519]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

If it creates "a common European consciousness" why has 1 of the largest member states, the UK, decided to leave?

Results of UK referendum on Brexit were more about botched British democracy and less about EU.

I was writing about it dozen times, it is nothing special, common knowledge thing.

UK has f*cked up election system (first past the post; 1 member constituencies). And the result is a lot of people do not have their representation in Parliament (for decades). 

For example results of election of 7 May 2015:

Nigel Farage party: 3.9 million votes, 12.6% of total, 1 MP 0.16% of total,

Liberal Democrats: 2.4 million votes, 7.9% of total, 8 MPs 1.2% of total.

Seems like a lot of pissed off people (there were also 1.1 million Green votes).

1 year later was Brexit referendum.

See some pattern ?

Advice: Change election system for proportional, improve your democracy. Stop blaming EU.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Marcin
spelling

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

For example results of election of 7 May 2015:

Nigel Farage party: 3.9 million votes, 12.6% of total, 1 MP 0.16% of total,

Liberal Democrats: 2.4 million votes, 7.9% of total, 8 MPs 1.2% of total.

Seems like a lot of pissed off people (there were also 1.1 million Green votes).

1 year later was Brexit referendum.

See some pattern ?

Advice: Change election system for proportional, improve your democracy. Stop blaming EU.

Excellent, dispassionate analysis.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

7 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Sort it out losers.

Now, now, that is really harsh.   I think you need a little diversion.  how about a date with your favourite pianist - Lola?

Should work. 😎

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

14 hours ago, Marcin said:

Advice: Change election system for proportional, improve your democracy. Stop blaming EU.

Marcin I am open to electoral reform, no problem, however no system is perfect and I haven't blamed the EU for this ever.

My point was don't pat yourself on the back for the EU keeping the peace for 74 years on the continent of Europe as you claimed when it isn't true. I believe Yugoslavia was in Europe at the time of the Bosnian War and i didnt see the EU preventing it, in fact it was mostly NATO which was predominantly UK, US and French who sorted it out.

14 hours ago, Marcin said:

Results of UK referendum on Brexit were more about botched British democracy and less about EU.

How so?

The referendum was Leave v Remain in each of our constituencies, how is this "botched"? You can argue that you don't believe in the electoral system all you like but that is what we have.

I believe Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the last US election, I don't see her in office! Should we remove Trump and stick Hillary in the White House??

I voted Remain but lost, I believe in democracy and this was a free democratic vote IMO.

Some are arguing that each side campaigned with blatant lies (which is true), but ultimately the will of the nation spoke and we have to accept that.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

17 hours ago, DayTrader said:

facts can be annoying to some

To who exactly? 

Whenever we have discussed EU and I have asked factual questions I have never received factual answers. 

[Baz + 2]

On 11/5/2019 at 9:25 AM, Marcin said:

EU is maybe a failure in some areas but @Tom Kirkman do not forget that it is the most succesful project in European history. For the first time in 2800 years* we have 74 years period without a major war on a continent.

*first written sources in Europe come from 8 century BC.

It is difficult to understand this point of view sitting in comfy US home because you have not seen a war on US soil for 155 years (since Civil War)*

*@Jan van Eck schooled me in the other thread that I forgot about 2 tiny Aleutian Islands, Wake Island and Pearl Harbour. So caveat: by war fought on own soil I understand war encompassing over 0.01% of country's area.

These are facts, you can check them at Wikipedia or in historical books

AM Marci - You harp on about peace in Europe for 74 years and suggest that this was due to the EU. What nonsense that is. With the collapse of Czechoslovakia there was war and massive ethnic cleansing for many years. And as far as peace goes this was and is still maintained by NATO, the EU has had no part in that. And, as far as your successful project goes, it's that corrupt it hasn't been successfully audited for over 20 years, it's in a financial mess creating and buying worthless bonds, and two steps from total collapse.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Baz

[Baz + 2]

I am still not sure about Brexit. Boris Johnson keeps saying we will leave, but then keeps kicking the leave date down the road. And, the EU says we will not get an agreement in the next three years. This means massive amounts of payments continuing and is not what the UK voters wanted from Boris. As a consequence I have lost faith in him.

[Marcin + 519]

@Rob Plant UK democracy by comparison with some other countries is not that bad.

United States even do not have concept of referendum at federal level.

In UK 2 parties: Conservatives and Labour dominate but you still have 11 minor parties in parliament.

In United States virtually no seats were won in the last 100 years by anybody not from Democratic or Republican Party.

So be still happy with your democracy, it could be much worse :United States is half way between Britain and China.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Marcin
spelling

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

Marcin the system in the UK isn't broken its the power hungry politicians that is the problem

[Marcin + 519]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Marcin the system in the UK isn't broken its the power hungry politicians that is the problem

You are certainly another fan of Monthy Python's Flying Circus. More often than not I think a lot of them here at oilprice forum.

I love theirs* "and now for something completely different".

* I mean both:  by John Cleese and by commenters here.

Sometimes it is more like Terry Pratchett.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Marcin
spelling

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 hours ago, Marcin said:

You are certainly another fan of Monthy Python's Flying Circus. More often than not I think a lot of them here at oilprice forum.

Yep, I'm a fan too.  The Holy Grail for Killer Rabbits.

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

8 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Yep, I'm a fan too.  The Holy Grail for Killer Rabbits.

He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 11/5/2019 at 2:25 PM, Marcin said:

I explained why Bosnian war (within territory of former Yugoslavia - at that moment not EU country) could not be prevented and was different from the wars we had in Europe in the earlier 2700 years. The wars were fought mainly on European continent, rarely on UK soil.

Take any German, French, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Belgian etc. they would understand what I am talking about. UK is an island - different geography, different perspective. I started reading The revenge of geography by Kaplan. @Gerry Maddoux told about it in China thread. Good book. Explains a lot.

On the other hand the major weakness of EU is lack of military power. EU is still dependent on US might. 

But the way they are acting, they are at risk of us looking away. Britain, not so much. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

7 hours ago, ronwagn said:

But the way they are acting, they are at risk of us looking away. Britain, not so much. 

It is about time the US started ‘looking away’ and let the EU put some of their cash into protecting/defending themselves.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Douglas Buckland
typo

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It is about time the US started ‘looking away’ and let the EU put some of their cash into protecting/defending themselves.

It would be very interesting to see how the EU/NATO would react if the US did "look away" and the UK followed suit following Brexit.

I don't think this will happen but hypothetically it would cause panic in the EU nations, and a massive wake up call to defense spending with the major nations in the EU. This would impact on the EU's ability to maintain the standard of living for most of it's citizens.

The UK is currently investing in arguably the most advanced nuclear submarine fleet on the planet with its "Dreadnought project" following on from the "Astute" nuclear sub project that is almost at completion.

Nobody in their right mind is going to mess with that!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It is about time the US started ‘looking away’ and let the EU put some of their cash into protecting/defending themselves.

 

1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

It would be very interesting to see how the EU/NATO would react if the US did "look away" and the UK followed suit following Brexit.

I don't think this will happen but hypothetically it would cause panic in the EU nations, and a massive wake up call to defense spending with the major nations in the EU. This would impact on the EU's ability to maintain the standard of living for most of it's citizens.

EU / NATO these days .... ?

Man In Critical Condition After Hearing Slightly Differing Viewpoint

GLENDALE, CA—A man was rushed to the hospital yesterday after encountering a slightly different viewpoint than his own.

Shortly before 12:30 p.m., Glendale PD officers responded to a 911 call at the Java Lounge Coffee House in the 900 block of North Emerson Road. They found a person who had collapsed in shock and went to the station for help. Witnesses say the man was having a casual conversation about politics with another patron when the minutely opposing viewpoint was expressed. 

"They were both Democrats, Bernie supporters," said Janice Hughson, a barista at the Java Lounge. "Then the guy he was talking to said he had some issues with abortion and thinks there should at least be a few limitations put on the practice. That's when the man seized up and began foaming at the mouth. It was terrible."

Four other bystanders were also emotionally injured by the moderately divergent opinion but were not hospitalized.

The man is being kept stable on ideology support at St. Francis medical center, surrounded by friends and family who agree with him 100% on every single issue.

The man who suggested the slightly differing opinion fled the scene. Anyone with information is asked to alert the authorities.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

58 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

EU / NATO these days .... ?

Man In Critical Condition After Hearing Slightly Differing Viewpoint

GLENDALE, CA—A man was rushed to the hospital yesterday after encountering a slightly different viewpoint than his own.

Shortly before 12:30 p.m., Glendale PD officers responded to a 911 call at the Java Lounge Coffee House in the 900 block of North Emerson Road. They found a person who had collapsed in shock and went to the station for help. Witnesses say the man was having a casual conversation about politics with another patron when the minutely opposing viewpoint was expressed. 

"They were both Democrats, Bernie supporters," said Janice Hughson, a barista at the Java Lounge. "Then the guy he was talking to said he had some issues with abortion and thinks there should at least be a few limitations put on the practice. That's when the man seized up and began foaming at the mouth. It was terrible."

Four other bystanders were also emotionally injured by the moderately divergent opinion but were not hospitalized.

The man is being kept stable on ideology support at St. Francis medical center, surrounded by friends and family who agree with him 100% on every single issue.

The man who suggested the slightly differing opinion fled the scene. Anyone with information is asked to alert the authorities.

 

was this Remake It?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

It would be very interesting to see how the EU/NATO would react if the US did "look away" and the UK followed suit following Brexit.

I don't think this will happen but hypothetically it would cause panic in the EU nations, and a massive wake up call to defense spending with the major nations in the EU. This would impact on the EU's ability to maintain the standard of living for most of it's citizens.

The UK is currently investing in arguably the most advanced nuclear submarine fleet on the planet with its "Dreadnought project" following on from the "Astute" nuclear sub project that is almost at completion.

Nobody in their right mind is going to mess with that!

In recent years the US and UK have ‘teamed up’ on the submarine issue and I believe they’ve essentially agreed that the US will concentrate on missile sub (boomer) boats and the UK will work on attack boat technology. Granted, they will share advances.

Given the differing sizes of the economies involved, this is a win-win situation.

[Boat + 1,315]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It is about time the US started ‘looking away’ and let the EU put some of their cash into protecting/defending themselves.

I am typically a Trump basher but military bases around the world all for early strike capacity is way to expensive. I just wish the Trump man would quit tweeting and close a few. Float those nuke submarines ok but unless the host country pays for the bases most of them in Europe, Japan, S Korea, Australia etc need to shut down. 
So a conflict breaks out. Project policy with trade, missiles and air power. But as Vietnam all the way through Iraq and Afghanistan shows, ground control is just to expensive. Bases are just to expensive.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, Boat said:

I am typically a Trump basher but military bases around the world all for early strike capacity is way to expensive. I just wish the Trump man would quit tweeting and close a few. Float those nuke submarines ok but unless the host country pays for the bases most of them in Europe, Japan, S Korea, Australia etc need to shut down. 
So a conflict breaks out. Project policy with trade, missiles and air power. But as Vietnam all the way through Iraq and Afghanistan shows, ground control is just to expensive. Bases are just to expensive.

I would say that keeping some bases overseas would be prudent in areas such as Kurdistan, the Indian Ocean, etc..., but to pay for bases in developed countries who are supposedly our allies foes not make sense.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I would say that keeping some bases overseas would be prudent in areas such as Kurdistan, the Indian Ocean, etc..., but to pay for bases in developed countries who are supposedly our allies foes not make sense.

Hey Doug

I've got something for you, stick it in your 'meme folder' for a later date when talking to D.T 😆

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

Hey Doug

I've got something for you, stick it in your 'meme folder' for a later date when talking to D.T 😆

 

Ahhh...that British English language stuff! Almost need a translator!😂

[fozzir + 68]

On 11/5/2019 at 1:25 AM, Marcin said:

 

It is difficult to understand this point of view sitting in comfy US home because you have not seen a war on US soil for 155 years (since Civil War)*

 

Lol, this isn't war and this isn't the United States. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Fozzir,

Marcin just wants us to keep fighting other peoples wars and keeping other people safe so that they can take advantage of the USA...and perhaps immigrate there illegally when their own country goes down the toilet.