The lies and follies of the "cry wolf" enviros: No more fire in the kitchen: Cities are banning natural gas in homes to save the planet

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

No more fire in the kitchen: Cities are banning natural gas in homes to save the planet

 

SAN FRANCISCO – Fix global warming or cook dinner on a gas stove?

That’s the choice for people in 13 cities and one county in California that have enacted new zoning codes encouraging or requiring all-electric new construction.  

The codes, most of them passed since June, are meant to keep builders from running natural gas lines to new homes and apartments, with an eye toward creating fewer legacy gas hookups as the nation shifts to carbon-neutral energy sources.

For proponents, it's a change that must be made to fight climate change. For natural gas companies, it's a threat to their existence. And for some cooks who love to prepare food with flame, it's an unthinkable loss.

Natural gas is a fossil fuel, mostly methane, and produces 33% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Carbon dioxide is the primary greenhouse gas causing climate change.

“There’s no pathway to stabilizing the climate without phasing gas out of our homes and buildings. This is a must-do for the climate and a livable planet,” said Rachel Golden of the Sierra Club’s building electrification campaign.

These new building codes come as local governments work to speed the transition from natural gas and other fossil fuels and toward the use of electricity from renewables, said Robert Jackson, a professor of energy and the environment at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California.

“Every house, every high-rise that’s built with gas, may be in place for decades. We’re establishing infrastructure that may be in place for 50 years,” he said.

These "reach" or "stretch" building codes, as they are known, have so far all been passed in California. The first was in Berkeley in July, then more in Northern California and recently Santa Monica in Southern California. Other cities in Massachusetts, Oregon and Washington state are contemplating them, according to the Sierra Club.

Some of the cities ban natural gas hookups to new construction. Others offer builders incentives if they go all-electric, much the same as they might get to take up more space on a lot if a house is extra energy-efficient. In April, Sunnyvale, a town in Silicon Valley, changed its building code to offer a density bonus to all-electric developments.

No more gas stoves?

The building codes apply only to new construction beginning in 2020, so they aren’t an issue for anyone in an already-built home.

Probably the biggest stumbling block for most pondering an all-electric home is the prospect of not having a gas stove.

“It’s the only thing that people ever ask about,” said Bruce Nilles, who directs the building electrification program of the Rocky Mountain Institute, a Colorado-based think tank that focuses on energy and resource efficiency.

Roughly 35% of U.S. households have a gas stove, while 55%have electric, according to a 2017 kitchen audit by the NPD Group, a global information company based in Port Washington, New York. 

For at least a quarter of Americans, it doesn't matter either way. They already live in houses that are all-electric, and their numbers are rising, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That’s especially true in the Southeast, where close to 45% of homes are all-electric.

For the rest of the nation, natural gas is used to heat buildings and water, dry clothes and cook food, according to the EIA. That represents 17% of national natural gas usage. 

But the number of natural gas customers is also rising. The American Gas Association, which represents more than 200 local energy companies, says an average of one new customer is added every minute. 

“That’s exactly the wrong direction,” Nilles said.

States weigh climate change solutions

The nudge toward all-electric buildings is the type of shift Americans will begin to experience more and more in coming years. Last year, California’s governor signed an executive order directing state agencies to work toward making the entire state economy carbon-neutral by 2045. 

California is not alone. New York, Hawaii, Colorado and Maine have economywide carbon-neutrality goals, and several more are debating them. More than 140 U.S. cities have committed to transitioning to carbon-neutral energy. 

The natural gas industry rejects the notion that it should not be part of the nation’s energy future.

“The idea that denying access to natural gas in new homes is necessary to meet emissions reduction goals is false. In fact, denying access to natural gas could make meeting emissions goals harder and more expensive,” said American Gas Association President and CEO Karen Harbert. 

The association calls the new zoning codes for new construction burdensome to consumers and to the economy. They also say it’s more expensive to run an all-electric home. A study by AGA released last year suggested that all-electric homes would pay $750 to $910 a year more for energy-related costs, as well as amortized appliance and upgrade costs.

But critics question AGA's conclusions. 

Amanda Myers, a policy analyst at Energy Innovation, a research nonprofit group focused on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, said AGA presumed high electricity rates because of unrealistically large increases in expected electricity use and made unusual assumptions for how any anticipated electric load growth might be met. 

An analysis last year by the Rocky Mountain Institute found that in locations as diverse as Chicago, Houston and Providence, Rhode Island, all-electric new homes over a 15-year time frame could save residents as much as $260 a year compared with new homes with air conditioners powered by electricity and natural gas. 

You’ll pry my cold, dead hands off my gas range

The selling point for getting away from natural gas may come from a type of electric range that, according to chefs, is just as good if not better than gas. As fundamentally attached as people might be to cooking with fire, induction stoves are making headway.

Long popular in Europe and increasingly trendy in the United States, induction cooktops are different from the kind of traditional electric range where coils become red-hot. Induction ranges use electromagnetic energy to directly heat pots and pans.

They are fast, energy-efficient and safe because there’s no open flame, and they are cool to the touch unless you’re a piece of metal. 

As Reviewed.com puts it, they're "gentle enough to melt butter and chocolate, but powerful enough to bring 48 ounces of water to a boil in under three minutes."

The downsides are that induction cooktops are more expensive than traditional electric stoves, generally a third to half more. They also work only with pans with steel or iron bottoms.

Professional chefs say modern induction ranges are comparable to gas. The Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York, America’s preeminent cooking school, trains its chefs on both induction and gas stoves because they will encounter both types and must know how to use them.

“Some of the finest restaurants in Europe are often out in mountainous areas or places where there isn’t gas. They cook on induction and that works just fine,” said Mark Erickson, a certified master chef at the institute. 

Regular electric stoves aren't a deal-breaker either, said Erickson, who lives in a townhouse with one and cooks on it every night.

“If I were given the chance and if it were a choice of gas or electric, I would choose gas because it’s what I’m used to,” he said. “But in all honesty, it’s not the end of the world.” 

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Climate change solutions: More cities banning natural gas in homes

 

 

 

 

Forward-Looking Cities Lead the Way to a Gas-Free Future

 

https://www.sierraclub.org/articles/2019/11/forward-looking-cities-lead-way-gas-free-future

 

 

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Did you notice how the California mentality has now immigrated to Colorado? A fantastic state going down the toilet....

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Did you notice how the California mentality has now immigrated to Colorado? A fantastic state going down the toilet....

Current CO admin has already declared and mandated that they want 100% renewable and shut down oil and gas and coal.

Mission of the Oil & Commission has been changed.

If these were based on facts and science , it would be OK , but they are biased with a total anti oil and gas agenda.

https://cogcc.state.co.us/documents/sb19181/Rulemaking/Mission Change/Mission_Change_Rulemaking_Whitepaper_20191101.pdf

These folks always harp about peoples will, yet they trampled and schitt on in in CO , after the voters rejected all "anti oil gas" rules that these nut bags wanted.

https://cogcc.state.co.us/#/home

 

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/agmain/news/energy-smart-agriculture-workshop-series-planned-colorado-producers

 

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/energyoffice/energy-colorado

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

They’ll ‘reap what they sew’ eventually, but it may be too late.

This is what happens when the liberals in the densely populated front range area get to mandate how everyone else in the MUST live.

A crying shame!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

They’ll ‘reap what they sew’ eventually, but it may be too late.

This is what happens when the liberals in the densely populated front range area get to mandate how everyone else in the MUST live.

A crying shame!

I'm waiting for California Uber-Liberals in densely populated regions to promote cutting off their own testicles to combat "Climate Change" via longer term population reduction.

It would be a win - win situation for the planet, in my humble opinion.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

5 hours ago, ceo_energemsier said:

No more fire in the kitchen: Cities are banning natural gas in homes to save the planet

 

SAN FRANCISCO – Fix global warming or cook dinner on a gas stove?

That’s the choice for people in 13 cities and one county in California that have enacted new zoning codes encouraging or requiring all-electric new construction.  

The codes, most of them passed since June, are meant to keep builders from running natural gas lines to new homes and apartments, with an eye toward creating fewer legacy gas hookups as the nation shifts to carbon-neutral energy sources.

For proponents, it's a change that must be made to fight climate change. For natural gas companies, it's a threat to their existence. And for some cooks who love to prepare food with flame, it's an unthinkable loss.

Natural gas is a fossil fuel, mostly methane, and produces 33% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Carbon dioxide is the primary greenhouse gas causing climate change.

“There’s no pathway to stabilizing the climate without phasing gas out of our homes and buildings. This is a must-do for the climate and a livable planet,” said Rachel Golden of the Sierra Club’s building electrification campaign.

These new building codes come as local governments work to speed the transition from natural gas and other fossil fuels and toward the use of electricity from renewables, said Robert Jackson, a professor of energy and the environment at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California.

“Every house, every high-rise that’s built with gas, may be in place for decades. We’re establishing infrastructure that may be in place for 50 years,” he said.

These "reach" or "stretch" building codes, as they are known, have so far all been passed in California. The first was in Berkeley in July, then more in Northern California and recently Santa Monica in Southern California. Other cities in Massachusetts, Oregon and Washington state are contemplating them, according to the Sierra Club.

Some of the cities ban natural gas hookups to new construction. Others offer builders incentives if they go all-electric, much the same as they might get to take up more space on a lot if a house is extra energy-efficient. In April, Sunnyvale, a town in Silicon Valley, changed its building code to offer a density bonus to all-electric developments.

No more gas stoves?

The building codes apply only to new construction beginning in 2020, so they aren’t an issue for anyone in an already-built home.

Probably the biggest stumbling block for most pondering an all-electric home is the prospect of not having a gas stove.

“It’s the only thing that people ever ask about,” said Bruce Nilles, who directs the building electrification program of the Rocky Mountain Institute, a Colorado-based think tank that focuses on energy and resource efficiency.

Roughly 35% of U.S. households have a gas stove, while 55%have electric, according to a 2017 kitchen audit by the NPD Group, a global information company based in Port Washington, New York. 

For at least a quarter of Americans, it doesn't matter either way. They already live in houses that are all-electric, and their numbers are rising, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That’s especially true in the Southeast, where close to 45% of homes are all-electric.

For the rest of the nation, natural gas is used to heat buildings and water, dry clothes and cook food, according to the EIA. That represents 17% of national natural gas usage. 

But the number of natural gas customers is also rising. The American Gas Association, which represents more than 200 local energy companies, says an average of one new customer is added every minute. 

“That’s exactly the wrong direction,” Nilles said.

States weigh climate change solutions

The nudge toward all-electric buildings is the type of shift Americans will begin to experience more and more in coming years. Last year, California’s governor signed an executive order directing state agencies to work toward making the entire state economy carbon-neutral by 2045. 

California is not alone. New York, Hawaii, Colorado and Maine have economywide carbon-neutrality goals, and several more are debating them. More than 140 U.S. cities have committed to transitioning to carbon-neutral energy. 

The natural gas industry rejects the notion that it should not be part of the nation’s energy future.

“The idea that denying access to natural gas in new homes is necessary to meet emissions reduction goals is false. In fact, denying access to natural gas could make meeting emissions goals harder and more expensive,” said American Gas Association President and CEO Karen Harbert. 

The association calls the new zoning codes for new construction burdensome to consumers and to the economy. They also say it’s more expensive to run an all-electric home. A study by AGA released last year suggested that all-electric homes would pay $750 to $910 a year more for energy-related costs, as well as amortized appliance and upgrade costs.

But critics question AGA's conclusions. 

Amanda Myers, a policy analyst at Energy Innovation, a research nonprofit group focused on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, said AGA presumed high electricity rates because of unrealistically large increases in expected electricity use and made unusual assumptions for how any anticipated electric load growth might be met. 

An analysis last year by the Rocky Mountain Institute found that in locations as diverse as Chicago, Houston and Providence, Rhode Island, all-electric new homes over a 15-year time frame could save residents as much as $260 a year compared with new homes with air conditioners powered by electricity and natural gas. 

You’ll pry my cold, dead hands off my gas range

The selling point for getting away from natural gas may come from a type of electric range that, according to chefs, is just as good if not better than gas. As fundamentally attached as people might be to cooking with fire, induction stoves are making headway.

Long popular in Europe and increasingly trendy in the United States, induction cooktops are different from the kind of traditional electric range where coils become red-hot. Induction ranges use electromagnetic energy to directly heat pots and pans.

They are fast, energy-efficient and safe because there’s no open flame, and they are cool to the touch unless you’re a piece of metal. 

As Reviewed.com puts it, they're "gentle enough to melt butter and chocolate, but powerful enough to bring 48 ounces of water to a boil in under three minutes."

The downsides are that induction cooktops are more expensive than traditional electric stoves, generally a third to half more. They also work only with pans with steel or iron bottoms.

Professional chefs say modern induction ranges are comparable to gas. The Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York, America’s preeminent cooking school, trains its chefs on both induction and gas stoves because they will encounter both types and must know how to use them.

“Some of the finest restaurants in Europe are often out in mountainous areas or places where there isn’t gas. They cook on induction and that works just fine,” said Mark Erickson, a certified master chef at the institute. 

Regular electric stoves aren't a deal-breaker either, said Erickson, who lives in a townhouse with one and cooks on it every night.

“If I were given the chance and if it were a choice of gas or electric, I would choose gas because it’s what I’m used to,” he said. “But in all honesty, it’s not the end of the world.” 

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Climate change solutions: More cities banning natural gas in homes

 

 

 

 

Forward-Looking Cities Lead the Way to a Gas-Free Future

 

https://www.sierraclub.org/articles/2019/11/forward-looking-cities-lead-way-gas-free-future

 

 

 

 

Putting aside any regulatory or climate change concerns cooking with electric is much cleaner and healthier. 

We used to cook on gas but switched to electric induction. 

Even with OH extraction massive reduction in:

Particulates

NO / NO2 

Carbon Monoxide

Water vapour

Measured all 4 with devices borrowed from work. 

We won't be going back to gas. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

34 minutes ago, NickW said:

Putting aside any regulatory or climate change concerns cooking with electric is much cleaner and healthier. 

We used to cook on gas but switched to electric induction. 

Even with OH extraction massive reduction in:

Particulates

NO / NO2 

Carbon Monoxide

Water vapour

Measured all 4 with devices borrowed from work. 

We won't be going back to gas. 

So ... what generates your electricity?

By any chance is it natural gas?

Or perhaps  < shudder >  coal?

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

46 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

So ... what generates your electricity?

By any chance is it natural gas?

Or perhaps  < shudder >  coal?

If they get this to work, job done!

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/nuclear-fusion-could-solve-the-world-s-energy-problems-and-scientists-just-got-closer-to-making-it-work/

[Meredith Poor + 883]

Residential natural gas utility networks are a huge source of inadvertent emissions. A lot of this is related to aging networks and millions of points of failure. Burning the gas in power plants to make electricity is less thermodynamically efficient, however leakage may reduce the overall difference to insignificance.

Most property managers I know hate gas and do everything they can to keep gas out of their rental properties. Add up leakage, concern for safety, and the potential for powering home heating and cooking from renewable energy, and the gas networks are likely to fade away.

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

So ... what generates your electricity?

By any chance is it natural gas?

Or perhaps  < shudder >  coal?

In the UK Gas, Nuclear Wind and solar supplemented by my solar.

Even if a little coal is used - its not venting directly into my living space. That was the reason for my first sentence. From a health perspective cooking on electric is much cleaner.

 

In contrast I am not a great fan of Air Source Heat Pumps as an alternative to gas central heating.

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

1 hour ago, NickW said:

In contrast I am not a great fan of Air Source Heat Pumps as an alternative to gas central heating.

Nick what are your thoughts on ground source heat pumps?

A friend of mine had one fitted and its been a disaster with it constantly failing, however that may be down to the pump not being large enough to service his household heating requirements.

[canadas canadas + 136]

I was looking at a pamphlet that was showing how some areas have totally cut down on coal fired electricity producing plants in the last few years.  However, I could not help noting that most of the electricity is now coming from nuclear power plants which produce nuclear hazardous waste. Thus, they are trading one form of pollution for another one.

Edited November 11, 2019 by canadas canadas

[NickW + 2,714]

12 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Nick what are your thoughts on ground source heat pumps?

A friend of mine had one fitted and its been a disaster with it constantly failing, however that may be down to the pump not being large enough to service his household heating requirements.

The technology is very reliable.

This issues arise because;

people skimp on borehole / trench size

Try and retrofit to radiators which are too small. Underfloor heating is the ideal heat outlet to use

Try and run at too high temperatures which massively drops the COP. The better systems heat hot water with a target temp of 55 deg C and then switch to heating with the water circulating at 40-45 deg C. Radiators are generally installed assuming a circulating temp of 60 Deg C so this is where the problems arise where you start running water round the rads circuit at 45 deg C in a retrofit GSHP system.

Edited November 11, 2019 by NickW

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

55 minutes ago, NickW said:

The technology is very reliable.

This issues arise because;

people skimp on borehole / trench size

Try and retrofit to radiators which are too small. Underfloor heating is the ideal heat outlet to use

Try and run at too high temperatures which massively drops the COP. The better systems heat hot water with a target temp of 55 deg C and then switch to heating with the water circulating at 40-45 deg C. Radiators are generally installed assuming a circulating temp of 60 Deg C so this is where the problems arise where you start running water round the rads circuit at 45 deg C in a retrofit GSHP system.

Thanks for the input!

[SERWIN + 749]

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

If they get this to work, job done!

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/05/nuclear-fusion-could-solve-the-world-s-energy-problems-and-scientists-just-got-closer-to-making-it-work/

Did you actually understand the question? Your answer was hypothetical crap. What power source does your electricity come from? That seems to be the point all the libtards are missing too! And right now in California, I wouldn't go without natural gas. When the electricity is shut off you can still run a water heater and cook food on gas, that had better be a MAJOR consideration for people buying a new home in the "blackout zone" ie, soon to be all of California. You can even run a generator off of natural gas, that would fire up those induction tops....

I've gone without power for up to two weeks after a hurricane, but I still have hot water for bathing and cleaning, and I can cook on the propane stoves. My range top is electric and I want it gone, I want gas piped down into the kitchen so I can have at least a cook top that I can easily use when the power is gone. Don't care about the ovens, they can be gas or electric, whatever..

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, SERWIN said:

Did you actually understand the question? Your answer was hypothetical crap. What power source does your electricity come from? That seems to be the point all the libtards are missing too! And right now in California, I wouldn't go without natural gas. When the electricity is shut off you can still run a water heater and cook food on gas, that had better be a MAJOR consideration for people buying a new home in the "blackout zone" ie, soon to be all of California. You can even run a generator off of natural gas, that would fire up those induction tops....

I've gone without power for up to two weeks after a hurricane, but I still have hot water for bathing and cleaning, and I can cook on the propane stoves. My range top is electric and I want it gone, I want gas piped down into the kitchen so I can have at least a cook top that I can easily use when the power is gone. Don't care about the ovens, they can be gas or electric, whatever..

Take a chill pill serwin, I'm confident Rob was being tongue in cheek. 

As for having natural gas in the home, obviously it's the best method for heating. I have electric range, wish I had gas but it would involve a lot of remodeling. For emergencies I've got a portable butane cooktop that works well with less emissions than propane. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Did you notice how the California mentality has now immigrated to Colorado? A fantastic state going down the toilet....

My leftist sister moved there and did her part to turning it purple. She is now in Portland, Oregon where she fits right in. Boise, Idaho is very unhappy with the invasion https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-10/go-back-to-california-wave-of-newcomers-fuels-backlash-in-boise

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, ceo_energemsier said:

Current CO admin has already declared and mandated that they want 100% renewable and shut down oil and gas and coal.

Mission of the Oil & Commission has been changed.

If these were based on facts and science , it would be OK , but they are biased with a total anti oil and gas agenda.

https://cogcc.state.co.us/documents/sb19181/Rulemaking/Mission Change/Mission_Change_Rulemaking_Whitepaper_20191101.pdf

These folks always harp about peoples will, yet they trampled and schitt on in in CO , after the voters rejected all "anti oil gas" rules that these nut bags wanted.

https://cogcc.state.co.us/#/home

 

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/agmain/news/energy-smart-agriculture-workshop-series-planned-colorado-producers

 

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/energyoffice/energy-colorado

 

 

That is awful! They are following California!

[SERWIN + 749]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Take a chill pill serwin, I'm confident Rob was being tongue in cheek. 

As for having natural gas in the home, obviously it's the best method for heating. I have electric range, wish I had gas but it would involve a lot of remodeling. For emergencies I've got a portable butane cooktop that works well with less emissions than propane. 

I'm sorry y'all, I had a weekend of libtards and I am ready to start cleaning house right now. They are living in some deranged fantasy world where Unicorns and Rainbows run the day. And I agree, I wish I had natural gas on my rangetop, I grew up learning to cook that way and I really want it back. And like I say, you don't need electricity to run these

[ronwagn + 6,290]

11 hours ago, NickW said:

Putting aside any regulatory or climate change concerns cooking with electric is much cleaner and healthier. 

We used to cook on gas but switched to electric induction. 

Even with OH extraction massive reduction in:

Particulates

NO / NO2 

Carbon Monoxide

Water vapour

Measured all 4 with devices borrowed from work. 

We won't be going back to gas. 

I am sitting ten feet from a natural gas flame that is doing most of the heating for the entire house. Much more economic than heating the bedrooms too with the main central heating. Water vapor is beneficial in the winter! Particulates are negligible. Caron monoxide is not a problem if you have ventilation. I just crack the window directly above this attractive heating stove which is illegal in California now. 

[SERWIN + 749]

15 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

which is illegal in California now. 

What isn't illegal in California now. They've even gone to letting ILLEGAL aliens vote, which for some reason is now LEGAL. The apocalypse is upon California. 

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

I am sitting ten feet from a natural gas flame that is doing most of the heating for the entire house. Much more economic than heating the bedrooms too with the main central heating. Water vapor is beneficial in the winter! Particulates are negligible. Caron monoxide is not a problem if you have ventilation. I just crack the window directly above this attractive heating stove which is illegal in California now. 

You left out the Nitrogen Dioxide. 

RE Ventilation - if you have extract ventilation yes, if it is just a fat and particle scrubber then no

RE: water vapour. Its not good if you live in a damp climate.

The fact is electric cooking is much cleaner than gas. Its also much more efficient. We have an induction stove and basically all the heat goes into the product. At least 50% of the heat with a gas stove is lost. Likewise the oven is so much more efficient and better for cooking than a gas unit. 

I'm not in favour of legislating to stop people using gas for cooking if they want to but I am in favour of people getting the right facts to help them make an informed choice.

The main benefit of gas is that you still have cooking facilities in the event of a power cut. 

In our case we have a couple of spirit stoves we use for camping / beach days. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

13 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I'm waiting for California Uber-Liberals in densely populated regions to promote cutting off their own testicles to combat "Climate Change" via longer term population reduction.

It would be a win - win situation for the planet, in my humble opinion.

Seems I actually wasn't being original in my comment, seems others have already proposed similar ideas.

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

2 hours ago, NickW said:

You left out the Nitrogen Dioxide. 

RE Ventilation - if you have extract ventilation yes, if it is just a fat and particle scrubber then no

RE: water vapour. Its not good if you live in a damp climate.

The fact is electric cooking is much cleaner than gas. Its also much more efficient. We have an induction stove and basically all the heat goes into the product. At least 50% of the heat with a gas stove is lost. Likewise the oven is so much more efficient and better for cooking than a gas unit. 

I'm not in favour of legislating to stop people using gas for cooking if they want to but I am in favour of people getting the right facts to help them make an informed choice.

The main benefit of gas is that you still have cooking facilities in the event of a power cut. 

In our case we have a couple of spirit stoves we use for camping / beach days. 

I love all my giant gas fired cooking ranges and ovens, and also have the electric conduction, i enjoy cooking a lot and not just get by stuff your face meals LOL

I prefer the gas fired cooking

And where do most people majority of people get their electric power from , its either from gas, oil (liquid fuels) , coal , nuke and some maybe solar or wind on a very nominal scale.

Trying telling people in developing countries to use electric stoves, where they dont have power most of the day!!!! 

Try India for example. You think the folks that live in the villages let alone major cities can afford to have electric ranges or stove tops or hot plates to cook food when they dont have power turn on their lights? Cow dung and wood burning is still on a major scale and LPG. LPG.

 

The pollution, smog and all that is so bad there, but they have to have cheap power and cheaper ways of producing food .

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Seems I actually wasn't being original in my comment, seems others have already proposed similar ideas

The original Roman solution was to carve a slit through the vas, the idea being that, upon ejaculation, the semen would not do an Entry, but instead take the path of least resistance and eject through the slit.  From that came the Biblical prohibition of "Thou shall not spill thy seed upon the ground."  

Apparently, the slice and slit system seems to have worked rather well.  A little risky from the infection point of view, I might say.