Trump's China Strategy: Death By a Thousand Paper Cuts

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Jeez are we back to christianity again?

I admit that I am a Christian zealot and proud of it. I still do respect all thinking people including atheists, agnostics, other religionists, etc. I have never converted anyone to my knowledge but am ready to pray for anyone who wants it. My step father was an atheist and my mother an agnostic so how I ended up religious is interesting to me. I have had a meditative life with spiritual experiences since age 15. Now that I am getting closer to the end of my life I am interested in ending it as well as possible. 

I feel compelled to push Trumpian policies and natural gas energy, but feel guilty I am not doing more than studying the Bible and the famous people who have promoted Christianity, prayer, and meditation. Just call me crazy. 

Sorry to give you a long reply Kristian. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣🤣   sorry Ron, couldn't resist lol x

Right now I'm done. A final quip just for you buddy. You love me really and you know it, Take care.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Now that I am getting closer to the end of my life I am interested in ending it as well as possible. 

You will be fine man, stop worrying and thinking like this, there is no need mate, you seem a nice enough guy, I guess ...?  (hahah just kidding man) x

5 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I have had a meditative life with spiritual experiences since age 15.

Yeah I did quite a few drugs too ...

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Just call me crazy. 

You're crazy. Wow that was easy. 

[Guest]

PS - you need 'long reply' lessons if that is long to you 

[remake it + 288]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

I might have some level of respect for her if she were to go to China and India and tell them what to do. Her handlers do not have that on their agenda. Any idea why? 

Yes, the spectrum Greta comes under does not have scope for "handlers" so those who make these comments should first do their homework.

[remake it + 288]

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I tend to agree with others like Ward and Ron that societies that are allowed to openly question those in power without fear of reprisals will remain a "freer" society than those that don't. This does not mean that those societies are less corrupt, or beacons for morality.

True, as the USA has gone to extraordinary lengths to persecute and prosecute those exposing the nation's hypocrisy. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 minutes ago, remake it said:

Yes, the spectrum Greta comes under does not have scope for "handlers" so those who make these comments should first do their homework.

I was referring to political handlers, not psychiatric. I do have a Masters in Counseling if you want to debate autistic spectrum. She may be somewhere on that, but so might I. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

19 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

PS - you need 'long reply' lessons if that is long to you 

I try to be succinct and avoid long replies unless called for. 

[remake it + 288]

17 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I was referring to political handlers, not psychiatric. I do have a Masters in Counseling if you want to debate autistic spectrum. She may be somewhere on that, but so might I. 

Again, she acts totally independently so whatever you are claiming has no basis, and this should be more than obvious if you have an appreciation of spectrum disorders.

[Papillon + 485]

With respect sir, a teenage girl does not voyage on boats round the world or manage to enter international UN meetings 'independently' in my humble opinion. Also her facebook bio that you linked I would guess was potentially not written by herself, as the English in all fairness is too good, and she seems to not frequent school too often.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Papillon

[remake it + 288]

8 minutes ago, Papillon said:

With respect sir, a teenage girl does not voyage on boats round the world or manage to enter international UN meetings 'independently' in my humble opinion. Also her facebook bio that you linked I would guess was potentially not written by herself, as the English in all fairness is too good, and she seems to not frequent school too often.

Opinions are no substitute for knowledge.

[Papillon + 485]

26 minutes ago, remake it said:

Opinions are no substitute for knowledge.

I would tend to agree sir, but it seems what you consider 'knowledge' in most topics ironically is opinion? Could you tell me then please with your vast 'knowledge' of her life how she does manage these feats? Did she pay for the boats by doing a newspaper round perhaps? Did she simply receive an invitation to the UN through the post? This page clearly would not be biased in any way would it? I stand in awe of your knowledge and choice of source material, the individual in question's personal facebook page. It is of little wonder why people react to you the way they do sir. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Papillon

[remake it + 288]

24 minutes ago, Papillon said:

Could you tell me then please with your vast 'knowledge' of her life how she does manage these feats?

You only need to use the internet, but she is young and also has parents helping her navigate through life!

[Papillon + 485]

To be fair sir, I requested some knowledge, as 'opinions are no substitute for knowledge', and you posted several links to what I would consider tabloid trash in all honesty. If this is what you personally classify as 'knowledge' then we have little more to discuss I am afraid to say. The British would not even use these papers to wrap fish and chips up to the best of my knowledge. 

That said, in fairness to you I opened most of the links sir and within the 'parents' one I could not help but note the irony of the final two lines.

But no one gets from New York to Montreal to Edmonton and on to Chile for free. Is it just her parents? Anyone speaking against any aspect of climate change gets accused of being in the pocket of Big Oil, so if she gets to scold the planet, she needs to be more transparent than a mere Facebook posting.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Papillon

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

22 hours ago, Papillon said:

I would agree sir but to refer to your very own analogy it was an American president himself that took such bribes and altered this deck. Therefore the comment regarding China, and a very small percentage of people having subsequent power there, is equally applicable here to your nation surely, as 'the few' in your country have affected your status for decades due to their own greed and personal gain. 

This quote ^ is whataboutism. It basically says, we do something bad and so do you. It isn't an insult to say you're using the technique, but I believe you're better than that. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

8 hours ago, Papillon said:

Is this sentence to myself sir? If so what or who did I reference as 'doing the same' ? We were discussing potential Chinese interfering in US elections were we not and did not suggest the Americans were doing the same? I apologize but I am a little confused if this is directed at myself.

Also with respect I find it a little ironic if directed to me, when half the conversations on the website contain some form of reference to China? - 'whatabout' China I could argue? There is a conversation entitled 'China's blueprint for global power', and I have recently had a conversation with yourself and ronwagn concerning how the US sees itself as 'ruling the world'. Therefore am I correct to assume it is fine for the US to have this 'blueprint' but 'whataboutchina' ?

If this is indeed correct then with respect the 'so and so doing the same' and 'whataboutism' seems to be coming from most users here sir in fairness, and always about China. 

Again, a reference to the Chinese being unable to do so no doubt? Whataboutism indeed sir, although it's apparently a 'technique' I use yet fine for yourself to do so? I genuinely do not know if this 'whataboutism' is intended as an insult? However when you use it it seems to not be 'so and so is doing the same' but rather 'look how much better we are than China'. This website seems sometimes to be some sort of international competition sir, it is rather odd to me.

Note also we are within a conversation where the title suggests death to a nation by paper cuts. If I wished to bring up 'whataboutism' and suggest the same fate for your nation I am rather confident in what your reaction would be, but here it seems if about China then anything goes?

The title of this topic is, "Trump's China policy, death by a thousand cuts", so of course we're going to be talking about China here. The whataboutism concerned primarily the bad deeds done on multiple sides. Another way of looking at it is to say, "two wrongs don't make a right". Hopefully you aren't feeling insulted. I've been away multiple hours and should be in bed now but wanted to see what you'd had to say. 

Concerning the trade war, I'm in general agreement with Marcin on this one. The damage from the trade dispute isn't too egregious, the pain not that real. Sure farmers would like to sell soybeans for a higher price and China chooses to buy theirs from Brazil to "pay back" Trump. That's not illegal, nor did I mean to imply that it was. Illegal happens when state sponsored actors make surgical attacks on public forums and hack databases etc. All of this is happening now. 

China pretends it's a communist country but in reality it has become a fascist dictatorship. The means of production have left the exclusive hands of the state to be replaced by corporate winners chosen by the state; a difference with a distinction. Whereas in the US there are multiple corporations competing with each other and corporations from other countries, when it comes to China they can quickly find themselves competing with the state. That means instead of just worrying about the usual corporate espionage, they now must face actual espionage from the Chinese spy agencies. You'll note this is one of the issues on the table in these trade talks, even though the press doesn't like to point that out. 

As far as the US being dominant, think how we got here. No direction from the state, no planned economy, just good old American ingenuity taking a random Brownian walk through the economy. Our semiconductor industry is ahead because we have Sand Hill Road venture capitalists throwing large sums at often sketchy ideas. If the investments had to get approved by government types, not one in one hundred would be funded. Chaotic yes, but overall superior. 

A great American said, "I'd rather be ruled by the first thousand names in the Boston phone book than all the dons of Harvard". There's some deep wisdom to that. Given China's history, there are vast swaths of her population who desire stability over all else and who better than the cognesceti to provide that? Given America's rather short history, I'm not even sure stability makes the top ten list with anyone. The Chinese insult, "may you live in interesting times" is endlessly amusing to Americans. We love interesting times. 

[remake it + 288]

2 hours ago, Papillon said:

I requested some knowledge, as 'opinions are no substitute for knowledge', and you posted several links to what I would consider tabloid trash in all honesty.

How you choose to inform yourself is a matter at your discretion as is how you choose to rely on others.

2 hours ago, Papillon said:

 I could not help but note the irony of the final two lines.

Well done, so assimilate that with what you know about the leanings of the Toronto Sun, and then determine what information the author presented which contradicted the parents' role in funding their daughter's activities.

Edited December 3, 2019 by remake it
plurals

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

22 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Please show me a nation whose leaders aren't corrupt or at the very least desperate to cling to power and will do whatever it takes to do so.

To me it is apparent that we as human beings are flawed and are easily corrupted when in positions of power and this leads to corruption, whether they be Chinese, American, English or whoever, it doesn't matter, the flaw in human nature remains. Look at Cuba where Castro has a  personal net worth of $900M and yet 99% of the population languish in abject poverty.

Hegemony wars (along with religious wars) throughout the ages of man have killed 100's of millions and usually this has been down to greed or fear of losing power by a handful of desperate or crazy "leaders".

Projects such as ITER (https://www.iter.org/) that combine dozens of nations working together to try to better humanity give me hope, it may prove to be the biggest white elephant known to man, or it may be a real breakthrough for the world, at least we are working together and trying to better ourselves not at the expense of another country or demograph.

I believe fundamentally with democracy, freedom of speech, capitalism, human and animal rights.

I'm sounding like a liberal now, which I am not by the way 🤣

You should be on my team rooting for reforms of the EU... 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

12 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

You should be on my team rooting for reforms of the EU... 

Haha Rasmus that post was directed at you believe it or not as I knew you would want to reply☺️

I guess deep down we are all dreamers, its just that some have other dreams to others.

As you know I voted to remain as I too think its in the best interest of the country, and some influence is better than none, right.

However I believe in democracy so I have to go with the will of the people, I am not about to renege on the vote as some political parties in the UK are. They then have the audacity to claim they are being democratic, unbelievable.

Rasmus I think we are very close on our thinking on most subjects, maybe my ability to express that comes across poorly sometimes. i blame my English teacher 🤣

[Papillon + 485]

5 hours ago, remake it said:

How you choose to inform yourself is a matter at your discretion as is how you choose to rely on others.

In fairness sir I believe I could throw this statement back to you, as the 'others' you 'rely on at your discretion' involve tabloid trash and personal bios on platforms such as Facebook. Hardly the Financial Times is it sir? Incidentally I hope this is not a case of me committing 'whataboutyouism' Mr Smith? Sorry, I jest. 

5 hours ago, remake it said:

determine what information the author presented which contradicted the parents' role in funding their daughter's activities.

When said author 'writes', for want of a better term, for what I consider trash, then there is no need to 'determine' anything sir in my opinion. If you wish to not only read articles such as this, but to quote them to others as if undisputed fact, then I'm afraid to inform you that you seem a little swayed by the most basic journalism. Therefore the line 'how you choose to inform yourself' becomes somewhat ironic when discussing any topic with you at all I fear.

From what I have seen of your content, I presume this is the reason you have been arguing with other users with regard to the President's impeachment hearings. I would strongly suggest that you atleast consider changing your journalistic sources sir, if only for a fuller spectrum of potential information. As you yourself stated, 'how you choose to inform yourself is a matter of your discretion', but it appears you have not been 'discreet' in establishing what you read, for instance an individual's Facebook page as proof of apparently anything, and that will do you no favors I fear.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Papillon

[Marcin + 519]

9 hours ago

•  

 

9 hours ago, Papillon said:

With respect sir, a teenage girl does not voyage on boats round the world or manage to enter international UN meetings 'independently' in my humble opinion. Also her facebook bio that you linked I would guess was potentially not written by herself, as the English in all fairness is too good, and she seems to not frequent school too often.

Opinions are no substitute for knowledge.

@remake it I have a daughter at the age of Greta, and I will never use her in the way her parents are using her. I do not follow her story, so do not know details, for me it is simply disgusting.

It reminds me of all these beauty contests for kids, where all these crazy mothers try to realize their dreams, using their daughters as accesories, simply hurting them.

Simply disgusting.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Marcin
typo

[Marcin + 519]

Greta's bio from Wikipedia, her parents are monsters.

Greta Thunberg was born on 3 January 2003 in Stockholm,^[13][14] the daughter of opera singer Malena Ernman and actor Svante Thunberg.^[15] Her paternal grandfather is actor and director Olof Thunberg.^[16]

FACT1: not only crazy mother, like in kids beauty contests, but crazy family.

Thunberg says she first heard about climate change in 2011, when she was 8 years old, and could not understand why so little was being done about it.^[18] Three years later she became depressed, lethargic, and stopped talking as well as eating, and eventually was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), and selective mutism.^[18]

FACT2: Very fragile child, with very serious mental problems already developed in early childhood, by her monster parents. Family should be put under custody of social care, to help the child

Her Asperger diagnosis was made public nationwide in Sweden by her mother in May 2015, in order to help other families in a similar situation, as she said.^[19]

FACT3: Her mother uses her as accesory, also her mental illness.

Publicity and widespread organising began after Swedish schoolgirl Greta Thunberg staged a protest in August 2018 outside the Swedish Riksdag (parliament), holding a sign that read "Skolstrejk för klimatet" ("School strike for the climate")

FACT4: She dropped school, to join strike, she was only 15.

I do not want to read this horrible story till the end, hope she will somehow survive this treatment and find peace and happiness in life. She is a victim, do not have to be psychologist to see it.

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

17 minutes ago, Marcin said:

@remake it I have a daughter at the age of Greta, and I will never use her in the way her parents are using her. I do not follow her story, so do not know details, for me it is simply disgusting.

It reminds me of all these beauty contests for kids, where all these crazy mothers try to realize their dreams, using their daughters as accesories, simply hurting them.

Simply disgusting.

And there you have it in a nutshell!

Why would any parent subject their child to the social media abuse  she has had?? Especially a child with Asperger's, unbelievable!!

 

 

[Zhong Lu + 845]

Expecting the market to have a very bad day today.  Worse then what the futures suggest.

Still too many people shorting VIX.   

Edited December 3, 2019 by Zhong Lu

[Zhong Lu + 845]

10 hours ago, remake it said:

Opinions are no substitute for knowledge.

All knowledge is opinion.  

[Papillon + 485]

10 hours ago, remake it said:

Again, she acts totally independently so whatever you are claiming has no basis

9 hours ago, remake it said:

but she is young and also has parents helping her navigate through life!

Also sir I would add that we very evidently have a differing opinion of the word 'independently'. May I suggest that parental involvement in her 'navigation', whether transportational or in life decisions, is not in fact a life or childhood led 'totally independently', so it seems it is what you claim that has no basis. This is why, as shown above, you contradicted yourself within minutes. I would also personally change the wording of 'helping her navigate' to 'abusing her condition and good intentions' through life.

29 minutes ago, Marcin said:

FACT4: She dropped school, to join strike, she was only 15.

And I would also contemplate this is not a decision a child 'independently' could make at 15. Maybe in Sweden the law is somewhat different, but I do not believe this decision can remotely be considered good parenting after developing the conditions she has at age 11. Defend her cause all you wish but to suggest any 'independence' in her life is sheer ignorance I'm afraid sir.

35 minutes ago, Marcin said:

Thunberg says she first heard about climate change in 2011, when she was 8 years old, and could not understand why so little was being done about it.^[18] Three years later she became depressed, lethargic, and stopped talking as well as eating, and eventually was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), and selective mutism.^[18]