POTUS Trump signs the HK Bill

[Papillon + 485]

Thankyou sir. Sincerely, I thank you. That was literally with respect all I wished to hear @ronwagn ... ''we are not perfect''. You had me worried for a moment there sir, I feared that the American ego knew no bounds! Respectfully, Papillon. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

Thankyou sir. Sincerely, I thank you. That was literally with respect all I wished to hear @ronwagn ... ''we are not perfect''. You had me worried for a moment there sir, I feared that the American ego knew no bounds! Respectfully, Papillon. 

We are far from perfect and I am very committed that we do not become a socialist, globalist, green extremist basket case. I wish the best for the Chinese people. I am only against their form of government. Historically the Chinese people have much to commend them. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

18 hours ago, canadas canadas said:

The Chinese government is also China's biggest business corporation that controls everything economic, social, political, military, etc. through owning many different other offshoot companies. Even though it claims to be a socialist/communist government, it does whatever it wants and is in its own interest first and not in the interest of the majority of its people that it originally claims to represent.  It is the super-corporation that some corporatists dream of.

Otherwise that is called fascism or statism. China is really not communist except in name. North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela come closer. 

[frankfurter + 562]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Most of my numbered posts are very current. just use your cursor to get past the images. 

Respectfully, from your posts, you should seek help.  Here and now?  YOUR troops are currently {as in NOW) occupying, illegally under any moral standards or international protocols, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, not counting troops in +900 bases world wide, and in the process slaughter daily innocent lives. Proof? Read your own bleeping newspapers.  For the real story, try Wikileaks [if wiki were not true, Assange would not be incarcerated, again illegally].

You want fact?  Since 1945, how many countries has the USA invaded?  By what right have YOU to invade another country and murder its citizens?  You mention China?  SInce the colonial occupiers were defeated and expelled, 70 years ago, China has not invaded any country.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

5 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

SInce the colonial occupiers were defeated and expelled, 70 years ago, China has not invaded any country.

If you want to start throwing stones at glass houses

http://chinesenotfromchina.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-many-countries-has-china-invaded-in.html

I'm an Englishman so no "skin in the game" so to speak, but In defence of the US they are expected by the majority of Western Nations to "keep the world peace". 

This does include invasions on many foreign lands which I think most would agree in hindsight weren't too successful. However these were not done unilaterally as you seem to intimate.

I believe the vast majority of American citizens are fed up of being the world's policeman and are actually very thankful their hard earned dollars aren't being spent on funding wars across the globe under Trump, as he is actively removing troops from the countries you have stated.

There is no "will" by POTUS to engage in any conflict other than that of economical warfare with the use of sanctions.

[remake it + 288]

34 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I believe the vast majority of American citizens are fed up of being the world's policeman

A large slab of the rest of the civilized world is fed up with the US thinking they have acted as "policemen" when instead they have consistently chosen to act without the broad support of the United Nations to enact various regime changes on the most flimsy grounds while pandering to one of the most repressive regimes in the world in Saudi Arabia who they conveniently choose to ignore as not just the greatest financial supporters of international terrorism but also in fostering extremism in their madrasas.

Edited December 12, 2019 by remake it
Added a link

[frankfurter + 562]

55 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

If you want to start throwing stones at glass houses

http://chinesenotfromchina.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-many-countries-has-china-invaded-in.html

I'm an Englishman so no "skin in the game" so to speak, but In defence of the US they are expected by the majority of Western Nations to "keep the world peace". 

This does include invasions on many foreign lands which I think most would agree in hindsight weren't too successful. However these were not done unilaterally as you seem to intimate.

I believe the vast majority of American citizens are fed up of being the world's policeman and are actually very thankful their hard earned dollars aren't being spent on funding wars across the globe under Trump, as he is actively removing troops from the countries you have stated.

There is no "will" by POTUS to engage in any conflict other than that of economical warfare with the use of sanctions.

Your quoted website is simply a site of lies.  You deny US troops have invaded and still occupy other countries?  sick. 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

5 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

You deny US troops have invaded and still occupy other countries?

No I have said no such thing, are you blind???

This is what I have said "This does include invasions on many foreign lands which I think most would agree in hindsight weren't too successful."

What is your agenda?? Your bias and inability to accept anything bad regarding China is just as intransigent as any American extolling the virtues of their country without accepting any failings it currently has. Can you not see this?

Your mind is closed so there is no point debating what the weather is going to be like let alone any worthwhile topic on this platform with you!

[frankfurter + 562]

Are you blind?  I have levelled many criticisms of China, and I do not use China as justification against American invasions, occupations, and cold blooded murder.  I see murder for what it is, not by whom, and I condemn all murderers equally.  Your reference to policemen infers you accept murder, but on what moral basis we can only surmise. You Brits were once the self-proclaimed policemen of the world, resulting in millions of murdered "subjects".  So your moral ground is not high.

You may wish to apprise yourself of true history, and review certain definitions, such as invasion and occupation, and what is implied thereby. You may, possibly, then see how false is the website you reference. 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

Are you blind?  I have levelled many criticisms of China, and I do not use China as justification against American invasions, occupations, and cold blooded murder.  I see murder for what it is, not by whom, and I condemn all murderers equally.  Your reference to policemen infers you accept murder, but on what moral basis we can only surmise. You Brits were once the self-proclaimed policemen of the world, resulting in millions of murdered "subjects".  So your moral ground is not high.

You may wish to apprise yourself of true history, and review certain definitions, such as invasion and occupation, and what is implied thereby. You may, possibly, then see how false is the website you reference. 

 

Whataboutism again!

Where have I said I accepted murder?? your ramblings are bordering on the insane now

Yes Britain has fought many wars and "conquered" many nations in its history, just like most other countries have. Are you saying defeating Hitler was wrong now???

I dont need history lessons from you as I would be fed indoctrinated shite anyway.

Where has Britain EVER proclaimed its the policeman of the world??

IMO Britain is one of, if not the, greatest nation on the planet that is why there is a GREAT in our name!!!

Just my opinion feel free to disagree (I'm sure you will)

See ya

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rob Plant

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

IMO Britain is one of, if not the, greatest nation on the planet that is why there is a GREAT in our name!!!

''One of'' ?!! - You having a mental blip again like when the Brexit vote came around mate?

England Rob, not 'Britain', come on, get real. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

You Brits were once the self-proclaimed policemen of the world, resulting in millions of murdered "subjects". 

When was this?

'Rulers' and 'global legends' are not the same as 'policemen'.

Far from it.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Guest

[frankfurter + 562]

53 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Whataboutism again!

Where have I said I accepted murder?? your ramblings are bordering on the insane now

Yes Britain has fought many wars and "conquered" many nations in its history, just like most other countries have. Are you saying defeating Hitler was wrong now???

I dont need history lessons from you as I would be fed indoctrinated shite anyway.

Where has Britain EVER proclaimed its the policeman of the world??

IMO Britain is one of, if not the, greatest nation on the planet that is why there is a GREAT in our name!!!

Just my opinion feel free to disagree (I'm sure you will)

See ya

 

haha, that's good. "Great" Britain defeated Hitler, all by your little selves.  And you claim you need no history lessons?  

You say China has invaded?  Do you know what invasion means?  Invasion means a pre-emptive military incursion into a foreign land and occupying it.  This the GB did to India, and the US has done and continues to do currently against very many countries; S Korea, Guam, Iraq, Afghanistan, to name but a few. 

Now for a free history lesson...

In 1865, "Great" Britain arbitrarily and unilaterally defined the border between occupied India and China. China never accepted the border, but tolerated it for the time being until 1961. In 1961, Pres. Nehru of India, poorly advised, sent his troops past the GB-demarcated border, well into China territory, per his self-proclaimed "Forward Policy".  During this incursion, India killed over 20 Chinese troops.

If Mexico sent troops into USA, or Russia sent troops into "Great" Britain, what would be the certain outcome?  Mao acted as expected; he ordered his army to fight back and rout the enemy.

China troops fought back with a tenacity and success that greatly surprised the Indians. China drove India's troops into a retreat all the way to within 300km of Kolkata [Calcutta]. Mao easily could have claimed a good portion of today's Bangladesh for China, per all rules of war and law. But did he? No.  He ordered his troops to withdraw from India, back to the disputed GB-demarcated line.

Fact: China did not "invade" India.  India invaded China, and then was given a bloody nose.

Your self-proclaimed knowledge of history is woeful, and your referenced website is a lie.  But what else to expect from a person with a country history such as yours? 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

5 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

But what else to expect from a person with a country history such as yours? 

Sir I respectfully decline from engaging with you on any form of debate as you clearly must have some sort of mental illness.

Regarding the above I am super proud of my country's history and all it has achieved not just for itself but for mankind as a whole. There are numerous examples (too many to list, no doubt DayTrader will!) its a shame other countries only look inwardly and not at the world at large.

I get you love China, well done, lovely people, but again i make the point you have a total lack of ability or desire to see any negative in your own country or any positive in anyone else's. This will be forever your downfall and result in your one sided view of the world.

Please start taking your medicine soon as I worry for you.

[Guest]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:30 PM, Rob Plant said:

Sir I respectfully decline from engaging with you on any form of debate as you clearly must have some sort of mental illness.

Rob this is some kinda hybrid sentence where you started as Papillon but then couldn't help yourself ...  🤣

On 12/12/2019 at 1:13 PM, frankfurter said:

But what else to expect from a person with a country history such as yours? 

@Rob Plant ... this is the key bit for me. To me this is nothing but a dumb racist comment from someone who very clearly views an entire nation and all their future generations on actions of the past. This is why he also says about the whole of the US being on drugs etc with his huge sweeping statements. 

For a kick off, Rob didn't say we defeated Hitler alone, that would go against, ummmm, every version of history ever, so when you start your moronic post with that horseshit we need look no further, but when we do, you refer to events that started in 1865? Desperate for an argument much? I'm English and I can insult my own nation better than you can by the look of it, and you're the one with the dumb racist hatred. 

I don't even know where to start with ''your referenced website is a lie'' - feel like we've done this thousands of times. Everything the West reads is a lie, but everything your government controls and allows you to read is held up there with teachings of the Buddha** himself apparently. You should be grateful you got a reply at all, sometimes I think you have the odd point and I try to see both sides, but ''what should I expect from someone with a country history such as yours'' suggests you are literally a dumb racist, pointless clearly to argue anymore with, and as Rob suggests, in need of medication. 

** and while we are giving out the free history lessons and talking Buddhism, what were you doing around the time we were in a war with one of the most evil regimes and men that's ever lived? Ah, now I remember, around that time you were obliterating a nation of peaceful Buddhist monks yes? To this day I see 'Free Tibet' t shirts and stuff on cars, I tend to not see 'Free Genocidal Maniac' ones. 

England is amazing. Deal with it. To suggest otherwise borders on insanity... (You are reading English by the way).

Cheers. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Guest

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

Rob this is some kinda hybrid sentence where you started as Papillon but then couldn't help yourself ...  🤣

Wow

I hadn't even realised i was morphing into him!

On the plus side I'm hoping to be fluent in Japanese at any moment, and increase my IQ no doubt.

But I'm hoping I won't want to crush James like a bug!🤣

[Papillon + 485]

I was born in Japan sir but my parents moved back to my father's England when I was very young. Therefore you can quite possibly equal my extent of Japanese speech within a week. The writing however will take you much longer. To clarify I do not wish to try to crush him like a bug, it was merely some British banter, we have had a pleasant discussion on the messaging feature, as indeed we have sir. Anyhow, as his origins appear to be Scotland, there would quite possibly be little 'trying' involved anyway I dare say ...   (/sarc).

[John Foote + 1,135]

9 hours ago, frankfurter said:

You mention China?  SInce the colonial occupiers were defeated and expelled, 70 years ago, China has not invaded any country.

Know any Nepalese?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

11 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Respectfully, from your posts, you should seek help.  Here and now?  YOUR troops are currently {as in NOW) occupying, illegally under any moral standards or international protocols, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, not counting troops in +900 bases world wide, and in the process slaughter daily innocent lives. Proof? Read your own bleeping newspapers.  For the real story, try Wikileaks [if wiki were not true, Assange would not be incarcerated, again illegally].

You want fact?  Since 1945, how many countries has the USA invaded?  By what right have YOU to invade another country and murder its citizens?  You mention China?  SInce the colonial occupiers were defeated and expelled, 70 years ago, China has not invaded any country.

 

https://freetibet.org/about/history China is still holding Tibet captive. 

China also holds manmade islands in South China sea areas it has no rights to. 

China continues to claim Taiwan which it has no rights to. 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-taiwan-relations 

China is severely persecuting the people of Xingang and moving the majority Han race to the area as it has in Tibet and any other minority area.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uighurs-xinjiang

America holds a bit of Syria, and that is all it holds without the permission of the governments involved. 

China basically holds its own people captive through a statist totalitarian dictatorship run by an Emperor for Life Xi and tens of thousands of "communists" who are actually fascists or statists. Real communism as in Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea just doesn't work as proven by Mao, Castro, Maduro, and Kim. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by ronwagn

[frankfurter + 562]

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Sir I respectfully decline from engaging with you on any form of debate as you clearly must have some sort of mental illness.

Regarding the above I am super proud of my country's history and all it has achieved not just for itself but for mankind as a whole. There are numerous examples (too many to list, no doubt DayTrader will!) its a shame other countries only look inwardly and not at the world at large.

I get you love China, well done, lovely people, but again i make the point you have a total lack of ability or desire to see any negative in your own country or any positive in anyone else's. This will be forever your downfall and result in your one sided view of the world.

Please start taking your medicine soon as I worry for you.

Man, you are sick, truly sick.  Proud of your legacy?  Proud of your Opium War and occupation of China for 100 years?  Proud of the many thousands your country murdered, let alone 'encouraged' to become addicted to opium. 

Or how about the Bengal region of India, which today is Bangladesh.  Over 60 million starved to death. A massive genocide.

https://fbreporter.org/2015/07/07/genocide-the-british-dont-want-you-to-know-about-they-systematically-starved-to-death-over-60-millions-of-eastern-indians/

In the article, Churchill is quoted: Churchill, explaining why he defended the stockpiling of food within Britain, while millions died of starvation in Bengal, told his private secretary that “the Hindus were a foul race, protected by their mere population from the doom that is their due.”

These horrors are but 2 of thousands committed worldwide. Truly, only a demented sociopath could be proud of such a legacy.  

Fast forward to today, and the injustices continue. Assange is imprisoned and tortured for committing no crime.  You are proud of this? 

All I write is fact.  Faced with fact, all you and others can do is huff and puff and accuse me of mental illness. You are mentally and morally bankrupt.  Not a fact comes from you; only lies.  

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by frankfurter

[Papillon + 485]

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Man, you are sick, truly sick.  Proud of your legacy?  Proud of your Opium War and occupation of China for 100 years?  Proud of the many thousands your country murdered, let alone 'encouraged' to become addicted to opium. 

 

With respect sir, these comparisons or references to different eras are not helpful or dare I say relevant I'm afraid. Everybody here can go back and forth accusing each other of atrocities committed in the past. Do you honestly, as Mr Plant and DayTrader have suggested, judge the British people in 2019 based on the actions of their ancestors or events that occurred before they were even born? Respectfully sir that is verging on plain foolish xenophobia I am afraid to say. How far back in history are you willing to go to form your views of different nationalities, and at what point will you turn the moral mirror to yourself and judge your own nation, as you seem to so happily judge others'?

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

These horrors are but 2 of thousands committed worldwide. Truly, only a demented sociopath could be proud of such a legacy.

Again sir, if you were British, you would realise that the vast majority of people know it to be fact that Churchill was not a perfect individual, but you seem to conveniently ignore the little aspect of Hitler being defeated. Presumably Mao was a moral angel to you? You happily pick and choose sir I'm afraid to say and seem more than happy to accuse. You brought up the war, so DayTrader brought up Tibet, but you ignore the facts I fear of inconvenient detail and go back to the xenophobic ways and accusations?

As a side note sir, I assume you hold your awful racist views with the same regard to Germans in the modern day, or the Austrian people perhaps? Do you have an issue with myself or the Japanese perhaps? Shall we discuss wars from centuries ago? Are you still envious and angry with Mongolia maybe? Or is it only when users say they are proud of their nation that you insist they have no right to be, before bringing up these events from different eras?

I have tried here to defend the Chinese somewhat, and will not accuse all the Chinese of speaking as you do, as I fear you would happily do if reversed, in terms of tarring every citizen of a nation with the same brush, but are you aware or dare I say capable sir of evaluating your own 'horrors' to quote yourself? I do not feel the accusations back and forth are helpful, but to happily accuse others they have no right to be proud of their nationality, due to events from different eras, while at the same time seeming to willingly ignore your country's own atrocities in 2019 is somewhat of a hypocritical stance is it not sir? There is being patriotic, and then there is simply being a buffoon. 

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Fast forward to today, and the injustices continue ...    You are proud of this?

This is what makes this sentence something of an irony sir. I fear Mr Plant may be utterly correct in that you happily ignore your own nation's past, present and quite possibly future, as you seem too distracted within your national pride to acquire a metaphorical moral mirror and to judge yourself first. Do you honestly in your wildest dreams think you can use the term 'injustices' as a Chinese citizen with regard to other nations in the modern day sir? I congratulate you if you managed to write that sentence with a straight face.

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

All I write is fact...      Not a fact comes from you; only lies.  

This is another false accusation and absolute nonsense, so loaded with mere opinion that it renders it laughable. With respect, Papillon. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Papillon

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

I had actually blocked Frankfurter as he clearly is a Xenophobic racist as you point out so eloquently Papillon.

I have already stated several times that we can all trawl through a county's history and dredge up wrong doings they have done to other countries or even themselves, but history cannot be changed. All we can do is try to right wrongs that are present day or that we can predict.

I believe everyone on this site is rightly proud of their country's achievements over several centuries and also dismayed at some of the actions it has also carried out. History bears no relevance to that individual, and should not deprive that individual of a sense of pride in those achievements.

I can list as @DayTrader has done many benefits to mankind that my nation has given the world from scientific breakthroughs such as the World wide web, Newton's law of gravity, Richard Trevithick's steam train, Bell's telephone, Baird's television, Darwin's evolutionary theory, Fleming's discovery of penicillin, to literary works from Chaucer, Shakespeare etc

The list is endless, should I not be proud of my small nation's achievements that mankind now shares in???

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

The list is endless, should I not be proud of my small nation's achievements that mankind now shares in???

We would need to evaluate the actions of cavemen in the land now known as England to make a fair assessment. 

[frankfurter + 562]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

With respect sir, these comparisons or references to different eras are not helpful or dare I say relevant I'm afraid. Everybody here can go back and forth accusing each other of atrocities committed in the past. Do you honestly, as Mr Plant and DayTrader have suggested, judge the British people in 2019 based on the actions of their ancestors or events that occurred before they were even born? Respectfully sir that is verging on plain foolish xenophobia I am afraid to say. How far back in history are you willing to go to form your views of different nationalities, and at what point will you turn the moral mirror to yourself and judge your own nation, as you seem to so happily judge others'?

Again sir, if you were British, you would realise that the vast majority of people know it to be fact that Churchill was not a perfect individual, but you seem to conveniently ignore the little aspect of Hitler being defeated. Presumably Mao was a moral angel to you? You happily pick and choose sir I'm afraid to say and seem more than happy to accuse. You brought up the war, so DayTrader brought up Tibet, but you ignore the facts I fear of inconvenient detail and go back to the xenophobic ways and accusations?

As a side note sir, I assume you hold your awful racist views with the same regard to Germans in the modern day, or the Austrian people perhaps? Do you have an issue with myself or the Japanese perhaps? Shall we discuss wars from centuries ago? Are you still envious and angry with Mongolia maybe? Or is it only when users say they are proud of their nation that you insist they have no right to be, before bringing up these events from different eras?

I have tried here to defend the Chinese somewhat, and will not accuse all the Chinese of speaking as you do, as I fear you would happily do if reversed, in terms of tarring every citizen of a nation with the same brush, but are you aware or dare I say capable sir of evaluating your own 'horrors' to quote yourself? I do not feel the accusations back and forth are helpful, but to happily accuse others they have no right to be proud of their nationality, due to events from different eras, while at the same time seeming to willingly ignore your country's own atrocities in 2019 is somewhat of a hypocritical stance is it not sir? There is being patriotic, and then there is simply being a buffoon. 

This is what makes these sentence something of an irony sir. I fear Mr Plant may be utterly correct in that you happily ignore your own nation's past, present and quite possibly future, as you seem too distracted within your national pride to acquire a metaphorical moral mirror and to judge yourself first. Do you honestly in your wildest dreams think you can use the term 'injustices' as a Chinese citizen with regard to other nations in the modern day sir? I congratulate you if you managed to write that sentence with a straight face.

This is another false accusation and absolute nonsense, so loaded with mere opinion that it renders it laughable. With respect, Papillon. 

Apart from exposing the utter hypocrisy and ignorance of others on this site, what horrors have I committed to warrant your comment for same?

Judge myself?  Ok. According to what standard?  Zionist? Christian? Muslim? Hindu?  May I ask others do the same: judge themselves? 

Atrocities in China during 2019?  Please elaborate. 

You are incorrect: I was not the first to mention wars. I corrected the person who claimed China invaded India, when the exact opposite is true. To falsify history is to perpetrate a lie, and I shall never tolerate this. Respectfully, your comment, re morals, should be directed to those who make such false claims. 

Agree. How far back in history we look is a moot point. However, should we ignore history's lessons for today? Considering billions of people today live with the enduring consequences of colonialism, world wars, racial wars, regional wars, war on terror, war on drugs, trade war, wars yet to come, nuclear fallout, industrial pollution, continuing hegemony, etc, which year would you choose as the cut-off? 

regards,

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

17 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

You are incorrect: I was not the first to mention wars. I corrected the person who claimed China invaded India, when the exact opposite is true. To falsify history is to perpetrate a lie, and I shall never tolerate this. Respectfully, your comment, re morals, should be directed to those who make such false claims. 

then why did your reply to Ron state the below

On 12/12/2019 at 9:04 AM, frankfurter said:

YOUR troops are currently {as in NOW) occupying, illegally under any moral standards or international protocols, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, not counting troops in +900 bases world wide, and in the process slaughter daily innocent lives.

I believe it WAS you that started the subject of wars and occupations re-read the thread!!

You defended China v India war AFTER stating this

Now who is SICK????

Get back to your medication racist!