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8 hours ago, ronwagn said:

You are really off the mark about rising up in America. I would guess that one has more opportunity here than anywhere in the world. That i why we have millions of immigrants every year. They come from every country in the world to try to have a better life here. Many of us come from very humble beginnings and every generation has, in general, had a better lifestyle than the prior except for possibly during the Civil War and the Great Depression. Please do tell us what countries offer better opportunities to advance oneself. 

Have you seen the queue outside the Chinese Embassy, anywhere in the world?  No?  I see...

You should see the queue outside the U.S. Consulate (where visas are handled, even within an Embassy complex) in China, and many other countries.  Impressive in how orderly they are.

Have you seen the queue outside any other country's embassy?  Hmm.

This relates back to Jan's earlier post, about Americans not caring what's happening in other countries; They're already in the U.S., why should they care?  Call me arrogant but that would be an incorrect assertion because not caring about something that is not part of your day to day life isn't even "not caring"; it's not a part of thoughts going through the mind.  It's not that they, or I, want anything untoward to happen anywhere, it's just not part of the thoughts going through the mind.  Americans, like many people around the world, are busy people with more than enough on their plates.  They don't need or want to add other country's problems.

But if politicians start caring more about what is happening internationally than they do about what the plight of Americans is, they will fight.  They'll even elect Donald J. Trump, take that world!

Edited by Dan Warnick
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11 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

The title of his slide was: 

When China Rules this World, the End of the Western World, and the rise of a New Global Order. 

But yeah, he's totally on the up and up and not opinionated at all. 

Your definition of "poor conclusions" are any that don't agree with that title? Feihua

It is the title of Jacques bestseller book about China, it is provocative to attract readers.

I have read first edition in about 2011, but there were later revised versions. It is a good read, you can read by chapters if you are interested in specific issues. Jacques is a special case because the most tragic moment in his life was caused by Chinese racism. Never the less he is impartial scholar. I think @remake it was aware of Jacques bio when linking the presentation.

Edited by Marcin
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11 hours ago, Marcin said:

If Senator McCarthy is virtually present I am sure you will not miss me.

@ronwagn I did not mean to insult you, but I do not like word "socialism" being misused.

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11 hours ago, ronwagn said:

You are really off the mark about rising up in America. I would guess that one has more opportunity here than anywhere in the world. That i why we have millions of immigrants every year. They come from every country in the world to try to have a better life here. Many of us come from very humble beginnings and every generation has, in general, had a better lifestyle than the prior except for possibly during the Civil War and the Great Depression. Please do tell us what countries offer better opportunities to advance oneself. 

1. It is one of best target countries for immigrants from developing countries (but no match with Western&Northern EU countries), mainly because of the porous borders and it is easy to hide among other 20 million illegal aliens (It is still amazing to me how federal (abide the law) and state (protect criminals=illegal aliens) authorities could fight with themselves about illegal aliens. Total anarchy.)

2. For 80% of people from lower-middle class to upper-middle class spending 200,000 USD on good education is insane, and one of major reasons why US becomes closed castes, oligarchic society with low upward mobility. In the age of skilled, sophisticated workforce, no money for good tertiary education and you are doomed.

3. Real wages of lower 80% of earners has not risen since 1970s. Generation of people born in 1980-1995 is the first one that is not richer but poorer than their parents.

life of provileged 5 or 10% is easy in every society, 95% of immigrants reaching US are low skilled they are balast.

Edited by Marcin
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1 hour ago, Marcin said:

Please guys do your homework, look around, maybe read something and if I am not right just argument with me, but without eye watering stories about queues at consulates but some real stuff.

Marcin, you are talking past the other posters because you are not grasping what they are saying, which is not precisely what you think they should be saying.  So what you are doing is substituting your ideas of what you think they are saying, for what they actually are saying.  

The posters are being quite precise.  When they say that Americans do not think about the EU, they are accurate.  You are changing that in your mind to "Americans do not care about the EU."   Then from there you go to "Americans don't care about anybody else."   See, that is not what the posters are writing.  And you are substituting in your mind what you think you are hearing, which is not what they are really saying. 

Americans do not think about the EU because it is irrelevant, and remains an irrelevant institution.  To Americans, the UN is also irrelevant.  For that matter, so is the WTO and the International Court of Justice in The Hague.  So is the Government of Cuba.  So is Maduro.  Lots of thing and people are irrelevant to Americans.  So they do not think about it  (or them). 

But Americans do CARE about the state of the world.  The World is a stable place only because the Americans have guaranteed international stability - by spending billions upon billions for the US Navy.   There are some 22 "jump" carriers in the world's navies, smaller ships that can support perhaps 30 aircraft.  France has one; the UK has one; now China built one;   I think India got an old Ukrainian one and fixed it up so they have one...  11 of those 22 also belong to the Americans  (with flat decks).   Now there are 11 "super-carriers" that can support perhaps 100 aircraft.  Those are the massive machines of the US Navy.  All 11 of the super-carriers, each of which has the firepower of 7 smaller carriers, are American.   It is this massive fire-power, the ability to project forward power via combat aircraft to any point in the globe, that makes the peace.   You misbehave, and you risk the US Navy kicks your ass.  That is the reality.

Who pays for that extravagance?  The American citizens do.  You do not.  The Poles get a free ride.  The Poles cannot even defend themselves against the Russians.  The reason you are an independent nation is because of the US Navy and the M1A2 Abrams tanks the US Army has stationed on your Western border in Germany.  Those gone, and the Russians can and will simply occupy your country.  They have the power to knock you over and there is nothing you can do about it.  And it is the same situation with Latvia, and Estonia, and especially Taiwan and South Korea.  So to say the Americans "do not care" is not true.  They care a lot.  For 70 years you have had peace because the Americans care.  But the Americans do not "think" about you or the EU or Taiwan, because those places are not relevant to daily life in Kansas or Ohio.  And you are not grasping the difference.

Do try to grasp that.   You are a free man because the Americans have declared to the world that you are a free man - and they will back that up with brute military force.  OK, so you are an "ethnic Russian" and you live in the fantasy-land and delusion that that will grant you some special privileges when the Russians occupy Poland.  get it through your head - it won't.  Proof?  Take a good look at how that worked out for the Ukrainians in the Donbass and Crimea.  Great life they lead there, under Russian occupation, now isn't it?  

Edited by Jan van Eck
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2 hours ago, Marcin said:

I think @remake it was aware of Jacques bio when linking the presentation.

Remake it is a Chinese AI Bot, it is not human.  You are busy talking to some robot.  You don't get it.  The Chinese military assigns these bot handlers to various Western publications in an effort to pass forward various Chinese propaganda.  You cannot believe that that is true.  Marcin, you are living in some academic fantasyland bubble.  Smell the coffee, and forget about the Bots. 

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2 hours ago, Marcin said:

@ronwagn I did not mean to insult you, but I do not like word "socialism" being misused.

Of course you insulted him.   Try to do better.  

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12 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Marcin, you are talking past the other posters because you are not grasping what they are saying, which is not precisely what you think they should be saying.  So what you are doing is substituting your ideas of what you think they are saying, for what they actually are saying.  

The posters are being quite precise.  When they say that Americans do not think about the EU, they are accurate.  You are changing that in your mind to "Americans do not care about the EU."   Then from there you go to "Americans don't care about anybody else."   See, that is not what the posters are writing.  And you are substituting in your mind what you think you are hearing, which is not what they are really saying. 

Americans do not think about the EU because it is irrelevant, and remains an irrelevant institution.  To Americans, the UN is also irrelevant.  For that matter, so is the WTO and the International Court of Justice in The Hague.  So is the Government of Cuba.  So is Maduro.  Lots of thing and people are irrelevant to Americans.  So they do not think about it  (or them). 

But Americans do CARE about the state of the world.  The World is a stable place only because the Americans have guaranteed international stability - by spending billions upon billions for the US Navy.   There are some 22 "jump" carriers in the world's navies, smaller ships that can support perhaps 30 aircraft.  France has one; the UK has one; now China built one;   I think India got an old Ukrainian one and fixed it up so they have one...  11 of those 22 also belong to the Americans  (with flat decks).   Now there are 11 "super-carriers" that can support perhaps 100 aircraft.  Those are the massive machines of the US Navy.  All 11 of the super-carriers, each of which has the firepower of 7 smaller carriers, are American.   It is this massive fire-power, the ability to project forward power via combat aircraft to any point in the globe, that makes the peace.   You misbehave, and you risk the US Navy kicks your ass.  That is the reality.

Who pays for that extravagance?  The American citizens do.  You do not.  The Poles get a free ride.  The Poles cannot even defend themselves against the Russians.  The reason you are an independent nation is because of the US Navy and the M1A2 Abrams tanks the US Army has stationed on your Western border in Germany.  Those gone, and the Russians can and will simply occupy your country.  They have the power to knock you over and there is nothing you can do about it.  And it is the same situation with Latvia, and Estonia, and especially Taiwan and South Korea.  So to say the Americans "do not care" is not true.  They care a lot.  For 70 years you have had peace because the Americans care.  But the Americans do not "think" about you or the EU or Taiwan, because those places are not relevant to daily life in Kansas or Ohio.  And you are not grasping the difference.

Do try to grasp that.   You are a free man because the Americans have declared to the world that you are a free man - and they will back that up with brute military force.  OK, so you are an "ethnic Russian" and you live in the fantasy-land and delusion that that will grant you some special privileges when the Russians occupy Poland.  get it through your head - it won't.  Proof?  Take a good look at how that worked out for the Ukrainians in the Donbass and Crimea.  Great life they lead there, under Russian occupation, now isn't it?  

The post was about prospects of people in US. About US and EU i was reffering to the fact that both should band together against China. Your answer relates to sth totally different and i agree with your views stated in your comment.

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6 minutes ago, Marcin said:

About US and EU i was reffering to the fact that both should band together against China.

 There is nothing to "band together" about.  The USA is disengaging with China.  Period.  The USA does not care, nor is it interested in, what others including the EU States do.The US is disengaging because Trump has figured out that the US is getting a lousy deal in its economic transactions, and the USA is disenchanted with the stealing that the Chinese engage in as respects US intellectual property.  So the US is saying, OK, we call it a day, we pack up and leave you to it.   

The USA does not care, nor is it interested in, whatever China makes of itself.  I predict China will go back to being a largely agrarian society, and its vaunted industrial sector, that you are so enchanted with, is going to sit there and rust.  The US is the big buyer on the block and those days are coming to a close.  Now, whatever the EU States choose to do, that is up to them.  The US is emphatically not dictating to Poland to stop buying green garbage bags from China, the US does not give a damn about your garbage-bag purchases.  Not interesting.  You do as you please.  But the US is all done.  And I think it is long over-due.  You don't get into these relationships to have the partner on the other side abuse you.  And the Chinese habitually abuse everyone.  So, bye-bye Chinese. 

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33 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The USA does not care, nor is it interested in, whatever China makes of itself.

Respectfully sir, I assume this is some form of a joke? I would argue this is indeed all that the majority of the forum ponders, due to the Americans' fear of the Chinese army and where China as a whole will be in the next 50 years in relation to America. I have had many conversations just online here about it, let alone with my American friends. You don't care what China makes of itself? Come now sir. Some here seem virtually terrified of the prospect, hence every other thread is about China in some form. Maybe you do not but I disagree that the USA as a whole does not ponder this.

3 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Our affairs are up to us to solve and up to us alone.  In fact, what other countries think should be important to us in the U.S. doesn't matter to us either.  Now you can argue about whether or not we are going to handle our own affairs but, you see once again, we don't care what you think. 

So with respect sir why do so many here seem to not be able to extend China the same courtesy and continually insult Chinese practices? I am not saying I agree with all of them by any means, but why does ''our affairs are up to us to solve and us alone'' only seem to apply to your nation, but the insults can generally fly to and from others, as if they live in some wonderland. Apologies sir, I guess this is not entirely directed at yourself, and I have not had the pleasure of conversing with you beforehand. It was merely the latest example I have seen.

Edited by Papillon
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45 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

There is nothing to "band together" about.  The USA is disengaging with China.  Period.  The USA does not care, nor is it interested in, what others including the EU States do.The US is disengaging because Trump has figured out that the US is getting a lousy deal in its economic transactions, and the USA is disenchanted with the stealing that the Chinese engage in as respects US intellectual property.  So the US is saying, OK, we call it a day, we pack up and leave you to it.   

^ remarkably astute observation.

I have been repeating endlessly for months that Trump has *already* won the trade war with China.

How has Trump already won the trade war with China?

Simple, by disentangling U.S. dependence on importing goods from China, and changing the global supply chains away from China and shifting to other countries.  Vietnam in particular is taking up the slack by supply chains and manufacturing moving out of China and to cheaper countries such as Vietnam.

Also, with the USMCA (United States Mexico Canada free trade Agreement) and very shortly an expected new Free Trade Agreement between UK and U.S. (after UK exits the EU) I fully expect China and EU to have significant economic difficulties, of their own making.  U.S. (and UK) will not bail out China or EU.

Just my opinion, but I have said this ^ repeatedly.  Others may roll their eyes at my views, but please do feel free to prove me wrong.  Cheers.

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3 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Just my opinion, but I have said this ^ repeatedly.  Others may roll their eyes at my views, but please do feel free to prove me wrong.

In this instance, you happen to be right. 

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2 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Others may roll their eyes at my views, but please do feel free to prove me wrong. 

Even if I were to sir, with respect, I would engage in conversation with you atleast, rather than hit you with the red arrow or eyeroll face and feel I had got an argument across. 

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28 minutes ago, Papillon said:

Respectfully sir, I assume this is some form of a joke? I would argue this is indeed all that the majority of the forum ponders, due to the Americans' fear of the Chinese army

"Americans' fear of the Chinese army..."   What, are you totally nuts?  Get real; all the Chinese Army has is bodies.  Big deal.  Bodies in the field do not determine conflict outcomes.   We have evolved into Drone Warfare, the idea of soldiers actually personally shooting at each other is so yesterday.   China has nothing.  It cannot do anything except provide some resistance to being invaded.  China has no military power to project in confrontation with the USA.  It is useless. 

 

31 minutes ago, Papillon said:

You don't care what China makes of itself? Come now sir. Some here seem virtually terrified of the prospect,

"Terrified?"  You cannot be serious.   Nobody here is "terrified" about China.  The place is going to slide into an agrarian backwater, rife with internal dissension,  going back to poverty for the masses.  Stick around and watch.   The only reason, and I emphasize the ONLY reason, China went anywhere was because it had open access to the US market.   And that door is closed.  All done.  Good bye, China.

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5 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Get real; all the Chinese Army has is bodies.

I assume sir we are seeing different footage.

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

We have evolved into Drone Warfare

And China has not or will not?

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Nobody here is "terrified" about China.

With respect sir, you seem rather keen to speak for the 'entire' forum or indeed the 'entire' USA. 

7 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

going back to poverty for the masses.  Stick around and watch.

Again, a lovely sentiment like your 'soup' comments. God Bless America I guess sir. 

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53 minutes ago, Papillon said:

So with respect sir why do so many here seem to not be able to extend China the same courtesy and continually insult Chinese practices?

Because China sets up Gulag camps to imprison political dissidents by the millions, because China "convicts" some 99.97% of defendants in a "trial" with no jury and a pre-determined outcome, then no appeal rights, you are taken out to some field and shot in the back of the head, then your internal organs cut out and sold, profits to the Commissars.  It is a disgusting society.  And yes, we insult those practices, because they richly deserve to be insulted. 

And we in the West are totally fed up with the bullshit of the Chinese Communists.  so, we can insult them, they deserve to be insulted. 

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(edited)

Debt pays for the American carriers and military.  We've long moved past the point where we're using non-debt money to pay for anything.  

And since the American government can generate infinite amounts of debt, the carriers in effect are "free."  This talk about "Americans paying for stuff to keep peace in the world," etc. has long become obsolete.  

People think of national finances like the way they think of their personal finances.  "I've got a limited amount of money to spend on priorities, and by extension so does 'America'".   That's flawed.  National finances don't work at all like personal finances.  If it did, America and China and Japan would have gone bankrupt 15 years ago.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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31 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Because China sets up Gulag camps to imprison political dissidents by the millions, because China "convicts" some 99.97% of defendants in a "trial" with no jury and a pre-determined outcome, then no appeal rights, you are taken out to some field and shot in the back of the head, then your internal organs cut out and sold, profits to the Commissars.  It is a disgusting society.  And yes, we insult those practices, because they richly deserve to be insulted. 

And we in the West are totally fed up with the bullshit of the Chinese Communists.  so, we can insult them, they deserve to be insulted. 

The US also sets up camps to imprison people by the millions, too, with no trial.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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Japanese internment camps, Indian reservations, and now Hispanic immigrants.  China's behavior on this point isn't good, but neither is America's.  

I'm pretty confident the Chinese government intends to do to the Uighurs what the Americans have already done to the Native Americans.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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Just now, Zhong Lu said:

Japanese internment camps, Indian reservations, and now immigrants.  China's behavior on this point isn't good, but neither is America's.  

You are being ridiculous.

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Sure. Whatever.  I just find the hypocrisy amusing.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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22 minutes ago, Zhong Lu said:

Sure. Whatever.  

Precisely sir. Perfectly put. I may as well have just stated this on all threads and saved myself some time. The USA is utterly flawless and always has been, I just did not get that particular memo.

30 minutes ago, Zhong Lu said:

The US also sets up camps to imprison people by the millions, too, with no trial. 

I do not know if this is true sir, but if it were, I imagine it will literally receive a red arrow or the eyeroll picture. This appears to be the American reaction here when they don't like what they have read and have no argument for it at all. 

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

to imprison political dissidents by the millions

I am not referring to cases such as these camps sir, but the notion that you were all happy to agree with initially, that ''a nation's issues are up to us to solve and up to us alone''. This not surprisingly only applies to the USA it seems, like many statements here, but the actions and events in other countries can be attacked constantly, and at the same time you say Americans have no interest in them. The constant opinion and attack of an opposing view would suggest otherwise would it not sir? 

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

And we in the West are totally fed up with the bullshit of the Chinese Communists

Your daily life is affected a lot by the Chinese is it? Their 'bullshit' has a large impact on you in Vermont apparently? With respect sir it is rather tiresome here on occasion as I fear there is potentially little point in anyone other than an American citizen frequenting the site, as they will either be accused of surely being a bot for attacking the apparently flawless USA, and because it appears no American citizen here can judge their own nation fairly, potentially as they are too busy criticising China or patting themselves on the back. Even a vaguely opposing view is attacked and you rudely suggest ''are you nuts?'' for even daring to disagree about the Chinese's military power.

I find it rather odd that people continuously bring up human rights issues in China (the majority of which I would agree with you all by the way), but completely ignore other countries' abuses. At the same time, you suggest Americans do not care about China and seem to be gleefully wishing for it to fall into despairing poverty. This seems somewhat hypocritical for users who allege to care about human rights does it not? The people you all seem to take issue with will quite possibly not be affected in the slightest, merely the average citizens. Therefore it would seem you do not care about over a billion people living in horrific conditions, as you take issue with the rulers of the country? 

I would also invite you all to ponder what your reactions would have been if a journalist was sawn to pieces within China? I will go out on a limb and suggest you would still be talking about it, that there would probably be around ten threads about it perhaps? It is rather tiresome to read of users' apparent care of human rights, but it depends on which nations we are talking about, and quite possibly how much military equipment they purchase. This story was rather swept under the rug was it not? If it were in China you would still be discussing your alleged human rights concerns.

It is literally tiring to read this selective history, the selective care of human beings, the continuous picking and choosing of which nations are bad, so with respect I was not born yesterday. Far from it. If certain users here could take a look at their own nation and actions, rather than the constant back patting it would be rather better for everybody I feel, but with respect save the rather grand 'holier than thou' concept for someone else.

By the way it is at this point you put the red arrow, as opposing views are not welcome in the slightest here. I guess maybe I should be grateful I have not received the bot accusation, but feel it maybe won't be long. It is easier to label someone as a Chinese bot clearly, then to consider the possibility that some people take issue with some American actions. As ever, the back patting gets in the way maybe.

Finally for those of you who feel that you do not see China as a threat or think about it at all, I would invite you to ponder how many comments you have made on a thread entitled americavchina.com.

Respectfully to you all, Papillon. 

 

 

Edited by Papillon
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16 hours ago, Marcin said:

Geography is your destiny. Half of human population lives 1 day of land/sea travel from Chinese borders.

Then you need a geography lesson as this makes INDIA the dominant world super power, not China.

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19 hours ago, Marcin said:

My view is know your enemy. China IS enemy of both US and EU. Even democratic China would be our enemy simply because it is way too big for this planet. It does not matter that Chinese are nice people, there is simply too many of them. Our globe would be much better place if no country larger than US exist. 

It is not a racist hate speech, it is just observation from the field of economics.

Would like to ask a question, are you Indian origin residing in India or Some European Countries?? The reason I'm asking is, there has been a common trend where Indians elites think highly of themselves that they are doing very greatly in many fields nowadays. And they are the selected group to rise up against China and Chinese in the future.

Some have extended their capacity trying to conquer a multiracial muslim dominant archipelago by flooding illegal indians, bangladeshis into the land so that they can reclaim the land. The reason is simply that they have claimed to be the first colonizer of the land during their glorious past. They are here to reclaim their sovereignty rights.

Some tried tricks by putting down or misused others (quote reference: Enterpreneurship in emerging economies by HavardX  -

1. Question given: Would you be comfortable taking money from Wall Street if that allowed you to scale this incomparably faster and make care available to the poorest of the poor (but with lots of loopholes)? ................... Stated differently, are you uncomfortable making money off the backs of the poor (by sere number of the poor, they are hence the target of squeezes of every dime they are earning);

2. Indian company has produced the pirated vaccine by reducing the procedure from 20 steps to 12. If we may recall the recent dispute regarding the necessity of vaccine................... I guess this is where the problem is originated. Pirated vaccines might have not been tested before using on human and produced unwanted side effects that chosen to be ignored?? ) Are you trying to provoke others so that India and Indians can be more represented in the world??

3. questionable professional ethics have been linking to many personnel. Doctors, managers, enterpreneurs alike.. Most Indians lead companies will go from profit to loss in less than two years.  Pardon me, no racist remark intended but factual analysis. Gene pools and their relation to predetermined characteristics is an interesting topic that I have profound interest on for some times......

 

Or are you simply someone who lost your job, at where you are, to one of those because you are not competent enough, relatively?? Why is China too big and not US, Russia, India, Africa and elsewhere?? What are you afraid off that you can't handle??

 

18 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

No, it won't. The world is going to disengage from China.  China will proceed to collapse in upon itself, and to maintain control, the Communist Party will have to forego the benefits of trade with outsiders and suppress the local population, forcing the place back to subsistence farming. The risk to the Communists is that the place will break up, and that is a large risk.  So, suppression will be the order of the day. 

Wondering if anyone could recall an event few years back when US was instructed to disengage from or launch attack on Russia?? Guess who Russia turned to?? China. Disengage China this time?? Guess where China will turn to?? The rest of the world........... no??

US is instructed to make enemy to every big power in the world this few years and pay billions to protect others' sovereignty lands with no security threat. This is of no concern to US citizens who are a cacophony assembly from all over the world. Of course, we believe. We are all too busy living our own lives, no??

 

6 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Our affairs are up to us to solve and up to us alone.  In fact, what other countries think should be important to us in the U.S. doesn't matter to us either.  Now you can argue about whether or not we are going to handle our own affairs but, you see once again, we don't care what you think.  Triggered yet?

image.png.ea34ad6419baac59cc0169ecc9dd61a5.png

Certainly, it has been the nature to solve own problem by all means. But, allaasss...... so near yet so far, as depicted in the picture above. There is always something that you might not see from where you are standing........... or no??

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6 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

This really bothers people from other countries.  My immediate family lives in the Midwest (Illinois) and they couldn't give a hoot about what's going on in other countries.  It's not that they don't think important things happen in other countries; it just has no effect on their lives one way or another.  Prove otherwise!  One thing that strikes them as incredible is when some Democrat (usually) or some strong lefty shows much concern about how bad something makes us look in the eyes of the world/other countries.  The reason it strikes them as incredible is that they, and I, don't care what other countries have to say about our internal affairs, at all.  Our affairs are up to us to solve and up to us alone.  In fact, what other countries think should be important to us in the U.S. doesn't matter to us either.  Now you can argue about whether or not we are going to handle our own affairs but, you see once again, we don't care what you think.  Triggered yet?

Jan is right.

Imagine getting from Illinois to Indiana and crossing an international border. Oh, and they speak an entirely different language. Same for Ohio, which you'd gone to war with multiple times. That's EUROPE for you, tiny little countries full of obnoxious people whose sense of self importance is vastly greater than the reality. 

There's a good reason America is full of immigrants from those countries, they clearly couldn't stand each other either!   ;)

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