Wexit: Separatism Gains Popularity in Canada's Oil-Rich Western Provinces

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Western Canada's Wexit secession is more bark than bite, but anyone nipping at the heels of Trudeau's anti-oil and pro-Socialist / Climate Panic-mongering policies gets an atta boy from me.  

And Russia is getting blamed for being the instigator in Western Canada's growing calls for secession.      < eye roll >

 

Separatism Gains Popularity in Canada's Oil-Rich Western Provinces

A separatist movement in Canada’s oil-rich western province of Alberta wishes to secede it from the country.

The “Wexit Movement” (as it has become popular styled after “Brexit”), has become more vocal since Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was re-elected in October 2019.

The separatists complain that “climate crusader Trudeau” is working to cripple the oil industry, and that the province sends too much in taxes to Ottawa and gets too little in return.

In late November, the Wexit movement organized a rally, with approximately 1,600 people in attendance in Calgary.

Speakers at the rally said that an independent Alberta would have more money, without federal taxes and so on.

At the same time, there was the typical fear mongering, warning about unvetted immigrants and the creep of communism.

Albertans contribute disproportionately to federal coffers, paying about C$5,096 more in tax revenue per capita than they received in government spending in 2017. By contrast, Quebecois received C$1,958 more than they paid.

The group has filed to become an official political party and will focus on electing candidates to push its agenda in Ottawa.

There’s no actual plan on how secession would happen and what would become of Alberta after that.  ...

 

... It is also just a matter of time, until reports start circulating in media, claiming who the “villain” behind the loss of Canadian statehood is – it would either by US President Donald Trump or the collective “Russia” – led by “evil overlord” Vladimir Putin.

Prime Minister Trudeau, who is the real main culprit for the internal rift of the Canadian people, in April of this year was extremely concerned about the prospect of Russian interference in the elections.

And if the separatist movement becomes a real Wexit (by analogy with Brexit), then accusations against Russia, which many in the West consider guilty of Britain’s exit from the European Union, will be self-evident.

The Canadian authorities have always supported separatist movements within the USSR and inside Russia, but now they themselves have to face the problem of separatism, which they themselves have created.

And accusations against Russia, US President Donald Trump or claiming that the citizens of the oil-rich regions are racist won’t solve any of the brewing crisis.

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

It won't happen, not even close.  Quebec actually had cultural grounds and never got separation.  Talk of separation is nothing new to us.

Part of the stupid plan is taking huge chunks of other provinces so we could have access to tidewater. That was a good laugh for them I'm sure.  Epic level stupidity; they (BC) don't even want pipelines on their land let alone giving it to Alberta.

Meanwhile support for right wing Kenny is evaporating as he cuts services and indirectly raises taxes and expenses.

Just like yellow vests this will soon be forgotten.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

26 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Western Canada's Wexit secession is more bark than bite, but anyone nipping at the heels of Trudeau's anti-oil and pro-Socialist / Climate Panic-mongering policies gets an atta boy from me. 

Trudeau is not anti-oil other than he likes carbon taxes / the environment. 

He literally bought the trans-mountain pipeline expansion...

Trudeau also just got reelected, and Scheer resigned - Canada is more liberal / left than you think. We don't want a trump. 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Boat + 1,315]

With luck a green US president would only allow processed petroleum products into the US and electricity by transmission line. If the Canadians want a buck they can eat the pollution to process it.

Republicans will feed you a false narrative that we need heavy oil. Wrong, tech can refigure any refinery to use the LTO that is now being exported. 
 

They lied about refinery capacity and the need for more. They lied about the need to open land to drill which fracking proved wrong. US and foreign oligarchs pulled the strings and all those lies now sell fuel to Brazil and a host of other countries. 
 

No volunteers from any of these FF boys to pay for huge ballooning medical bills or the shortened lives of seniors from pollution. We need an algorithm that accesses total costs to make these decisions. They don’t need campaign funds.

[Boat + 1,315]

Let’s be clear that the US should provide its own energy and eat its own pollution. But why we do it for foreigners is so 1950. It’s time to grow up and set limits. Unlike some greens and FF promoters the target that tech and common sense is ever moving. But remaining practical means a steady measured transfer to an electric society that takes into account the human toll along with keeping costs as affordable as possible.

Texas for example is doing a great job replacing coal with nat gas and renewables without a rapid rise in cost. Now if we killed a couple of refineries along with the imports they bring we could breath a little easier.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Boat

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

tech can refigure any refinery to use the LTO that is now being exported. 

Oh really? You a chemical engineer? You Do know what a long chain versus short chain molecule is, no? 

[Chris Kanaan + 22]

Alberta is at a breaking point.  While they might not ever separate, the support for separation is higher in Alberta then it was in Quebec in 1995.  I think if Trudeau pushes thru with Transmountain, it would help alleviate tensions;  also, the looming TECK Frontier bitumen project is rather important, considering Trudeau just granted the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corp offshore licenses to drill off Newfoundland's coast, if the federal gov't torpedoes a $40bn bitumen mine in Alberta it will result in hell being raised.

It will look really bad for Trudeau.  Canada needs to ensure Transmountain is built without further delays and approve the Frontier project.

[frankfurter + 562]

When P Trudeau 'repatriated' the constitution, the internet was not yet invented. He ensured the media and schools were kept completely ignorant of facts and the text of the draft constitution. Worse, he ensured it would pass without a plebiscite. It was the most undemocratic process imaginable; not a single citizen had the chance to read the draft and to vote upon it. Except for Quebec, which was given the right for "not withstanding".  Later, Quebec began the process to secede, which again was without the public disclosure possible by the internet, which again meant the media and schools were kept ignorant of the true facts. 

Today, we have the internet, the people back then have largely passed away, and the now generation has substantially different values and access to information.  Things may be different this time.

A major fact to the constitution is ALL of it is made subject to the Canadian Government, which can change it at any time.  None of it gives inalienable rights.  Worse, Canadians have NO right to property: property is not even mentioned.

Here is Article 1:

"1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

This is why Levesque wanted to separate from Canada: the so-called constitution eliminated all the rights and priviledges granted by the BNA of 1867. But NOTHING in either the BNA or Constitution gives any province the right to secede. 

Why?

Canadians remain 'loyal subjects' of the British Crown. Your freedoms are determined by that Crown. And guess what? The Crown owns ALL land in Canada, which is why you have no rights to it. Prior to the BNA, all provinces were Crown subjects, and all lands were claimed by The Crown. The BNA did not transfer freehold land rights to any province not to any person. The precepts of Crown land, Court of Queens Bench, and other Crown controls continue to this day. 

We can admire the impertinence of the former Separatists and the now Wexits, but neither have the right to their claims.  So, good luck!
 

[Keith boyd + 178]

The federal government closed down cold lake military base in alberta last year. This was a large base sporting military jets, a bombing range, weapons storage, munitions storage, and most importantly some of the only fighter jets that canada owns that can still fly. Cold lake is right in the guts of the oil sands. I imagine back in the day military generals considered the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world to be a nice military asset worth defending. Now it is defenseless. If Russia wanted to take out 5 million barrels a day of production they could fly right over the arctic, hit a handful of targets (the cokers and upgraders which upgrade bitumen into oil. Without the cokers bitumen is worthless) take out the cokers and you just took out 5 million barrels/day. 

 

Is it surprising the federal government took all the military assets away from alberta? Strange that OPEC lists canada 27th in reserves because it believes oil sands aren't reserves. Do they know something we dont? 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Keith boyd said:

The federal government closed down cold lake military base in alberta last year. This was a large base sporting military jets, a bombing range, weapons storage, munitions storage, and most importantly some of the only fighter jets that canada owns that can still fly. Cold lake is right in the guts of the oil sands. I imagine back in the day military generals considered the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world to be a nice military asset worth defending. Now it is defenseless. If Russia wanted to take out 5 million barrels a day of production they could fly right over the arctic, hit a handful of targets (the cokers and upgraders which upgrade bitumen into oil. Without the cokers bitumen is worthless) take out the cokers and you just took out 5 million barrels/day. 

 

Is it surprising the federal government took all the military assets away from alberta? Strange that OPEC lists canada 27th in reserves because it believes oil sands aren't reserves. Do they know something we dont? 

Huh? CFB Cold Lake is still in operation.

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/4-wing/index.page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFB_Cold_Lake

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 12/23/2019 at 5:38 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Albertans contribute disproportionately to federal coffers, paying about C$5,096 more in tax revenue per capita than they received in government spending in 2017. By contrast, Quebecois received C$1,958 more than they paid.

I shall address this statement as it encapsulates a good chunk of the discontents inside Canada, and is rife with misunderstandings.

First, there is no "special assessment" on the rich Provinces in order for the Feds to make the "Equalization Payments" ["EP"].  Albertans pay more than anybody else because Albertan income taxes generate more revenue.  Simply put, Albertans start off from a higher base, as they are richer and earn more. 

Second, each Province charges a "minerals separation tax" which is effectively a provincial excise tax on whatever minerals are removed from the earth.  So in Alberta it is oil, and in Ontario it is nickel, from the big nickel mine(s) up around Sudbury.  (For examples).  Equally, Wyoming receives a minerals royalty or separation tax from the mining of coal out of the Powder River Basin.  You get the idea. 

The Provinces with higher Federal Income Tax receipts thus do not receive a "topping up" or EP from the Feds, they are in effect donor provinces.  The poor provinces get some extra Fed money so that they can provide govt services to the people there equal to what they could do if they have the median incomes and thus taxes of the richer provinces.

Historically, there have been a limited number of Provinces that have been in effect "donors" to the others, via the EP.  The two "biggies" are Alberta and Ontario.  Ontario had higher incomes due to the concentration of financial-sector salaries, from the banking sector in Toronto, and from the big powerhouse manufacturing sector, mostly in SW Ontario.  OK, so along comes the Kathleen Wynne govt and the Liberal Party of Ontario and they proceed to totally wreck the manufacturing sector.  That leaves Toronto and the financial services sector as the money generator, which due to the very restricted bank system in Canada, continues to make the big bucks, no matter the economic cycle.  Banking thus attracts morons who like cushy jobs and little competition, so no need to be nimble on the feet, just be a big bank and you are fine forever.  And that mentality also invades the public-sector, which in Canada is effectively non-firing. 

The result of all that has been, together with the big Federal push for migrants, a huge housing bubble, as the banking sector (unable to finance entrepreneurs due to lack of mental skills to analyze those loan applications) concentrates on mortgage loans as their main, indeed sole, financial product.  The housing bubble will shortly wipe out huge numbers of Canadians, leaving them both flat broke and bereft of housing.  Just watch how ugly that will get. 

The Province that has done a good job in developing its social and fiscal stability is Quebec.  The intellectuals there, long led by Rene Levesque and his "Parti Quebecois" separatists, figured out early on that cheap energy would fuel their development, and went for hydropower as the engine of development.  It has been a spectacular success.  My guess is that the sale of hydropower to the Americans provides some 30% of provincial revenues, which basically pays for their healthcare system and a lot left over for their education system. 

So Quebec is not really a beggar province, needing EP.  And it gets EP from the Feds anyway due to accounting footwork, basically as a bribe to keep the Quebeckers from leaving and busting up the country, which they perpetually threaten to do, and have done for at least a half century.  And that is effectively extortion, which is what so irritates Alberta. 

The richer provinces, which up until the latest mess included Ontario, Saskatchewan, British Columbia ["BC"] and sometimes Manitoba, depending on the grain harvest, thus effectively subsidized the Maritime provinces and Quebec, via transfer payments from the Feds.  And they did so without much of a whimper as long as they were rich enough that it did not matter much.  But now the resource-based (and lumber based) West and the collapsed Ontario with its housing-cost burdens is groaning under Federal taxation  (no surprise there) and so the EP once again hits the sore spots of the donors.  And  (just uni\til this year, when Ontario went from being a beggar province with the outstretched little tin cup, to at least a neutral province) that burden was being carried by Alberta, which today with the collapse of their oilsands oil prices is feeling the hurt, big-time.  

Now the Fed solution to that hurt, as developed by the Liberals, is to do nothing.  If the political players such as Trudeau were not so tone-deaf, they would be moving heaven and earth to develop the extraction industries and get those provincial royalties flowing again, both in oil and in extraction including lumber sales to the USA.  But because they are so collectively stupid, and listen to those loony radicals with their doomday ideas of "climate collapse" and huge ocean floods burying half of Canada, and the mass deaths of all the polar bears and the seals and whatever, they sit frozen in the headlights and do nothing at all.  And paralysis from your leadership is a recipe for disaster. 

There is no equivalent "Trump figure" in Canadian politics, someone who will come in and make radical changes, which are really necessary to ensure the Canadian social fabric does not tear  (and when people are poor and lose their jobs, guess what, the social fabric develops some serious rips), so I don't see a way forward for Canada.  Mr. Trudeau can go make pretty speeches and send his eloquent women (Chrystia Freeland) to Washington to plead some case for no steel tariffs, but they are dealing with Trump and guess what, he does not care much about internal Canadian politics or the economic structures of the provinces.  so it is a dead end, the Albertans see the writing on the wall, they cannot develop the resources that will bring back the riches  (including grain sales at nice numbers), so now you see the howling.   The solution from that crowd?  There is none.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by Jan van Eck

[frankfurter + 562]

@Jan van Eck.... very good summary. 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

@Jan van Eck.... very good summary. 

 

Well, then be sure to go back there and give it the Purple Cup upvote award!   I shamelessly hustle for votes on this forum.  I solicit yours, same as the next guy.  Cheers,

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

I shamelessly hustle for votes on this forum.  I solicit yours, same as the next guy. 

No shit. I'd give it a trophy if I didn't think you make it up as you go. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

And that goes for you, too, @DayTrader,  get off your duff and give me that Purple Cup out there, Hey I worked hard for it!  Be nice now, and I will go put back that "u" in "favourite" and in "colour," and all the rest!   Rule Britannia!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

No shit. I'd give it a trophy if I didn't think you make it up as you go. 

Aargh, the impudent insolence I have to genuflect to on this forum......

[Guest]

I notice you're not denying that it's made up, just demanding trophies. 

Too busy pondering the wonder of an airport probably. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Ah, I see @DayTrader tagged it as "Great Response."  I can feel the mellow soothing over me already......

Great stuff. 

The first thing a good salesman needs is to lose his fear of asking for the Order.  Them that don't ask, never get.   Ask any celibate.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I notice you're not denying that it's made up, just demanding trophies. 

Too busy pondering the wonder of an airport probably. 

All true.  But look at it this way: it is a marvel of British  (OK, English?) engineering acumen.  They can land 75 planes an hour on each runway, around the clock, simultaneously.  Kinda impressive.  Not quite up to the standards of the runway down at Gibraltar, when it was built across a main six-lane road that gets shut down each time an aircraft is on final approach, but hey, the British  (OK, English?) are masters at improvisation.   Consider that an inherited genetic trait.  England rocks!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

England rocks!

See, getting trophies isn't hard is it? 

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

See, getting trophies isn't hard is it? 

You 2 are incorrigible....sheeesh

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

34 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

You 2 are incorrigible....sheeesh

Nah - just totally shameless!