IRAQ / USA

[Guest]

The USA has been bombing Iraq for 29 years ...

Over the past days while little real debate over the Iran crisis has happened in Washington or Congress (instead it's merely the default drones and "bombs away" as usual), the American public has been busy online and in living rooms debating the merits or lack thereof of escalation and potential war with Iran. 

However, like with many other instances of US foreign policy adventurism, this is typically a "debate" lacking in necessary recent historical context or appreciation for how the domino effect of disasters now facing American security were often brought on by prior US action in the first place. As a case in point, it's not recognized often enough in public discourse that it was the United States under the neocon Bush administration which handed Iraq over to "Iranian influence" and the Shia clerics in the first place.

It must be remembered that Saddam Hussein was a secular Sunni dictator presiding over a Shia majority population, and he was enemy #1 of Iran. Team USA's short-sighted and criminal 2003 invasion and overthrow of Saddam based on WMD lies had the immediate benefit to Tehran of handing the Ayatollah the greatest gift that Iran waged a nearly decade-long war to accomplish, but couldn't (the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq War).

U.S. bombing of Baghdad in 2003. 

And the neocons within the bowels of the national security state have ever since been attempting to salvage their failed legacy in Iraq by the futile effort of trying to contain Iran and roll back Shia dominance in Baghdad, as Seymour Hersh detailed in his famous 2006 New Yorker piece The Redirection, which accurately predicted the 'long war' against the Hezbollah-Damascus-Baghdad-Tehran axis which would unfold, and did indeed unfold, especially in Syria of the past eight years. 

To "situate" the past week's dramatic events, it's also crucial to understand, as The Libertarian Institute's Scott Horton has pointed out, that "The U.S.A. has been bombing Iraq for 29 years. And it looks like it’s not over yet."

Below is an essential timeline compiled by Horton of that nearly three decade long history where Iraq has been consistently subject to American bombs and intervention — yet ironically (and some might say predictably) the situation is still getting worse, more unstable, and more dangerous.

* * * * * * *

The U.S.A. has been bombing Iraq for 29 years. And it looks like it’s not over yet:

Iraq War I: January—February 1991 (aka The Gulf War, Operation Desert Storm, liberation of Kuwait)

Iraq War I 1/2: February 1991—March 2003 (The rest of Bush I, Bill Clinton years, economic blockade and no-fly zone bombings)

Iraq War II: March 2003—December 2011 (aka Operation Iraqi Freedom, W. Bush’s invasion and war for the Shi’ite side)

Iraq War III: August 2014—December 2017 (aka Operation Inherent Resolve, the war against the Islamic State, which America had helped to build up in Syria but then launched this war to destroy, on behalf of the Shi’ite government in Baghdad, after ISIS had seized the predominately Sunni west of the country in the early summer of 2014 and declared the Islamic State “Caliphate”)

Iraq War III 1/2: December 2017—January 2020 (The “mopping-up” war against the remnants of ISIS which has had the U.S. still allied with the very same Shi’ite militias they fought Iraq War II and III for, but are now attacking)

Iraq War IV: Now—?

Joanna Piacenza

 

We asked folks to identify Iran on an unlabeled map.

28% of them got it right. Here's where they guessed. https://morningconsult.com/2020/01/08/can-you-locate-iran-few-voters-can/ …

As Scott Horton suggests, the roots of the current crisis lie all the way back in the mid-20th century:  

In 1953, the American CIA overthrew the elected prime minister of Iran in favor of the Shah Reza Pahlavi who ruled a dictatorship there for 26 years until in 1979 a popular revolution overthrew his government and installed the Shi’ite Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in power.

So in 1980, President Jimmy Carter’s government gave Iraq’s Saddam Hussein the green light to invade Iran, a war which the U.S. continued to support throughout the Ronald Reagan years, though they also sold weapons to the Iranian side at times.

But then in 1990, Iraq invaded Kuwait in a dispute over debts from the recent war with Iran, with some encouragement by the U.S. government, leading to America’s Iraq War I, aka the first Gulf War or Operation Desert Storm at the beginning of 1991.

And that was merely the very beginning ... 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/usa-has-been-bombing-iraq-29-years

Edited January 10, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

Note that some of the guesses on that map are England ...

Just sayin'

[Guest]

Oh ... it gets worse. 

Somehow.

Some guesses are even in the USA  😅  and some are in oceans. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Guest

[PE Scott + 563]

There's one guess in the middle of the f00king ocean! 

Maybe they mistook Iran for the lost city of Atlantis? 

Are you sure this isnt a map with possible locations of MH370?

Edited January 10, 2020 by PE Scott

[remake it + 288]

 

33 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

We asked folks to identify IraN

and now a message from our sponsor

IRAQ/ USA

 

 

[Guest]

In the poll it had the percentage of Americans that fear for a war. That would probably be a lot higher if Iran was within the USA itself I assume?

I'm just grateful the North and South poles aren't on the map.

Hate to think how many dots would be put there. 

 

[remake it + 288]

Breaking News:  President Trump has appointed Kristian Smith as Special Peace Envoy to Iraq Iran that place in the Middle East we liberated in 1991 2003  2020.

Edited January 10, 2020 by remake it
Forgot to say Kristianity will bring about world peace

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, remake it said:

Forgot to say Kristian - ity will bring about world peace

 

[remake it + 288]

2 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Forgot to say Kristian - ity will bring about world peace

OMG

[Papillon + 485]

I rather hope this map of guesses is a joke sir? Some Americans believe Iran to be just off the American coasts, or in the various oceans, or within America itself, and there are even guesses within every continent? 

It must be some form of printing error, as the ignorance this suggests is surely impossible for an evolved and adult human being in this day and age?

Perhaps the poll was taken at some form of kindergarten sir?    /hopeful sarc

Edited January 10, 2020 by Papillon

[Papillon + 485]

18 hours ago, PE Scott said:

There's one guess in the middle of the f00king ocean! 

Indeed sir, it would appear that the Iranian regime conducts their deeds below sea level. It is quite the feat admittedly.

[Papillon + 485]

The silence on this thread is quite telling. 

[frankfurter + 562]

USA has been at war with Iran for nearly 50 years.  You would think by now most, but not all, 'murcans would be familiar with a 50-yr-old enemy. But no, only 23%. Greatly fewer would be able to cite more than 1 historical event twixt USA-Iran. What more proof of dumbed-down drugged-up 'murcans is needed?  ... just saying.  

[Papillon + 485]

9 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

But no, only 23%

And after fifty years sir, some Americans believe Iran to be within America itself. Ponder that concept for a moment. It rather answers a lot of things.

[Otis11 + 551]

20 hours ago, Papillon said:

The silence on this thread is quite telling. 

You posted on a Friday afternoon - I'd suspect many of us work in O&G and are able to post here during normal business hours.

 

That said - the only explanation I have is that the US education system is sadly lacking (disturbingly so sometimes - especially at world events/geography outside the US. The under-educated here tend to be very USA-centric.)

Edited January 13, 2020 by Otis11
Edit:'Under-educated here' refers to in the US, not on the forum.

[Papillon + 485]

7 hours ago, Otis11 said:

the US education system is sadly lacking (disturbingly so sometimes - especially at world events/geography outside the US.

Indeed sir and it is rather a famous dynamic that does not go unnoticed by the rest of the world. I simply could not get over the fact that some Americans believed Iran to be within the USA itself. Ponder that thought process.

You say 'especially outside the US', but some do not even know their own nation or 'inside the US', or indeed the fact Iran is a nation apparently.

As an aside, I do find it rather ironic here when users suggest sarcastically ''maybe we should go back to isolationism.'' If this poll is anything to go by sir, it would appear some Americans already have. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Papillon

[Otis11 + 551]

19 hours ago, Papillon said:

Indeed sir and it is rather a famous dynamic that does not go unnoticed by the rest of the world. I simply could not get over the fact that some Americans believed Iran to be within the USA itself. Ponder that thought process.

You say 'especially outside the US', but some do not even know their own nation or 'inside the US', or indeed the fact Iran is a nation apparently.

As an aside, I do find it rather ironic here when users suggest sarcastically ''maybe we should go back to isolationism.'' If this poll is anything to go by sir, it would appear some Americans already have. 

Isolationism is a policy, not a status of the populace. There are plenty of educated people in the US - in fact, if you took the next 20 people I interact with and asked them to Identify Iran on a map, I'd be surprised if they didn't go 20/20. It's unfortunate that our normal population isn't this way, but I caution you from extrapolating to everyone in the US from an average.

Just like this phenomena isn't unique to the US. There are many countries where the educated are extremely educated, yet the average is lower than you'd like. (Actually, not always, but often, countries that have higher averages do so by decreasing the deviation. Just something to think about.)

[remake it + 288]

Back on topic it took several decades after the USA was booted from Vietnam that they started to get their house in order while in Iraq they have yet to leave and the civilian death toll due to their continued occupation is reprehensible.

[James Regan + 1,776]

 

On 1/10/2020 at 2:15 AM, Guest said:

Oh ... it gets worse. 

Somehow.

Some guesses are even in the USA  😅  and some are in oceans. 

Can I ask which image was offered up?  Do the same in The Black Country in the UK you will get a similar response. What demographic was asked. Poles are only a snapshot of the question asked the real point is how , whete etc it was asked.

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

7 hours ago, James Regan said:

Do the same in The Black Country in the UK you will get a similar response.

Now that is plain ignorant James!

The standard of education in the UK full stop is no better than the US (including Scotland I might add!)

Scottish exam rates fall for fourth year in a row

 

[Otis11 + 551]

16 hours ago, remake it said:

Back on topic it took several decades after the USA was booted from Vietnam that they started to get their house in order while in Iraq they have yet to leave and the civilian death toll due to their continued occupation is reprehensible.

You realize that the 'death toll' you sited, isn't - in fact - due to the 'US Occupation' as you say?

And let's compare for 2019 - 2,392 confirmed violent deaths in Iraq vs 738 in Chicago? Iraq has 38 milion people, Chicago has 2.7 million.

Seems like Chicago is worse than Iraq! We should end the US Ocupation of Chicago!!! 

I realize this is a poor comparison, however I'm trying to point out how rediculous it is to cite statistics out of context and make conclusions. The vast majority of the deaths have nothing to do with US Forces being in Iraq if you read through the data. In fact, US forces don't have active operations in Iraq - it's a train and advise roll, so the vast majority shouldn't be due to the US 'occupation' (Not sure how you say it's an occupation at this point).

[Papillon + 485]

4 hours ago, Otis11 said:

 let's compare for 2019 - 2,392 confirmed violent deaths in Iraq vs 738 in Chicago? Iraq has 38 milion people, Chicago has 2.7 million.

Seems like Chicago is worse than Iraq! We should end the US Ocupation of Chicago!!! 

I would suggest tackling the gangs sir.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Papillon

[remake it + 288]

4 hours ago, Otis11 said:

You realize that the 'death toll' you sited, isn't - in fact - due to the 'US Occupation' as you say?

You could read the collection methodology and then wonder why a failed WMD war turned into a failed regime change operation that has since destabilized Iraq to such a level that it is now a dysfunctional government.

[BlackGold + 3]

8 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Now that is plain ignorant James!

I agree, if it wasn't for the Black Country then England arguably wouldn't be what it has become today. Certainly not as quickly. 

[Otis11 + 551]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

I would suggest tackling the gangs sir.

Oh, don't get me started on the problems in Chicago... (Yes, there are many)