Iranian government can do everything to avoid attacking American people.

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

48 minutes ago, Wombat said:

So you admit that you offend American Republicans that are interested in the oil & gas industry? That you think their blog is an "echo chamber" that u need to troll each day? Just fuck off back to Twitter where u belong? Go back to your own echo chamber?

As @Rasmus Jorgensen commented yesterday why do the moderators allow this guy to still post on here after his paedophile comments???

His comments clearly continue to be abusive, and many are personal attacks as he must lack the intelligence for serious debate.

Moderators your thoughts???

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

46 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

As @Rasmus Jorgensen commented yesterday why do the moderators allow this guy to still post on here after his paedophile comments???

I worry that it migth have something to do with him being pro US, guns, Trump etc... then you are cut more slack. Imagine if he had commented on Barron Trump in the same way!

I am out. 

[Papillon + 485]

4 hours ago, Wombat said:

You can take your opposing views and shove them up your arse. No one is interested in them.

Thankyou for proving my point within minutes sir. You are not interested in hearing an opposing view to your own, you prefer the echo chamber clearly, and the deluded nonsense going on inside your own skull. I fear you are unaware that not everyone on the planet shares your view? May I suggest cutting down on the alcohol perhaps, it is clearly doing you no favours at all. We can all see that.

2 hours ago, Wombat said:

Just fuck off back to Twitter where u belong? Go back to your own echo chamber?

Would this be the same Twitter that Mr Trump uses daily? Do you have any idea what you are saying generally or think before you type at all? The above comment from yourself suggests Twitter is not a good thing yes? Unless your president uses it, then of course it is sheer wisdom? Please think before replying sir where you can, it will generally help you in life. At the moment your IQ comes across as a smaller number than your age. 

4 hours ago, Wombat said:

No one is interested in them.

No sir, again I fear I need to explain to you that the Republican American's view is not 'the entire world'. It is quite possibly your world admittedly, and explains your country's division and your personal delusions and opinions. Have a lovely day sir, but trust me, cut down on the alcohol, it appears to be turning you into a moron quite frankly. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Papillon

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

51 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am out. 

Now this is a real shame as Rasmus always posted intelligent responses.

Looks like we have lost another of the good ones thanks to some moron.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Rob,

Just ignore him, he/she is just trying to wind you up...

[Rob Plant + 2,616]

5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Rob,

Just ignore him, he/she is just trying to wind you up...

yes i think i will Douglas

I was not going to use the ignore button on anyone, as everyone's opinion should be just as valid as your own, but when it becomes personal abuse or vile comments as he has written about children then I see no merit in listening to his rants

[Papillon + 485]

It is not the case sir that somebody should have to 'ignore' him. His abusive language and disgusting comments should have had him blocked or given a warning in a heartbeat.

It says quite a lot about users here that no one said a word about his vile comments, aside from you and I, until Mr Kirkman deleted it. They blatantly would have read what he said.

If the comment had been about one of Mr Trump's children there would have been uproar here. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

15 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest". Bonus points for knowing who said this.  

I had this idea it was Winston Churchill.  So, who was it?  An interesting quote, to be sure. 

[Selva + 252]

I guess I have to remind some members about our guidelines. Like it's not enough to have a constant discussion about pro-US and anti-US, now we started with personal attacks and insults. Some members are warned for this behavior. I would kindly ask all of you to continue discussion in a decent way. 

"We believe debate and disagreement are constructive, but personal attacks, trolling, and abuse will not be tolerated. The key to a great community experience is an engaging and inclusive space where everyone can learn and grow." 

"We understand that people often feel strongly about issues discussed in the Oilprice community, but we may remove any posts or comments that others might find offensive or threatening. Not everyone has a thick skin, so please consider the impact your posts and comments can have on others."

Thank you!

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:07 PM, Papillon said:

Trump - insults allies - who will help us? - maybe allies insulted by Trump would have? - which ones though? - the list Trump has insulted is that long is it? 

Let's make it easy then sir and say then that no one will help you shall we instead? You can pat yourselves on the back while ignoring why no one is helping? (hint - the insults aforementioned). Also, I mentioned the words 'maybe others'. You seem distracted by vague mentions of Mr Trump (your president), and so call it TDS?!

I apologise your president came up sir when you ask who will help the USA, of which he is the president. Who asked for help? Trump? As I said you appear to have the precise opposite of TDS, I assume there is a term for it? 

I know you can't. This is your problem, you appear to think no one has the right to either. You also still appear to not read what others have said, ever, but reply as if you have. This is a rather odd trait within conversation generally. Have a wonderful day sir. 

People who need to look for their future will decide whom to join forces with. China/Russia or US/NATO Trump can insult anyone he wants. They are thick skinned politicians and the realpolitik of their circumstances will dictate their decisions over time. Since the business of Europe is posing and "virtue signaling" by and for the echo chamber of the administrative class and the circle jerk of academic social "sciences" publications which serve to back up their dogma, it will take a while. But decisions will ultimately be out of self interest of the major EU member countries. Trump's bully persona is not going to matter.  Europe hardly liked Thatcher and Reagan any better than Trump. 

[Otis11 + 551]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:59 AM, Papillon said:

Maybe several nations will sir? They just won't be patting themselves on the back about it while believing it has anything to do with their 'cajones'.

If your mentality of continuous wars is that it's a matter of the testicles, then perhaps this is why America feels a need to be at war every few years, as if to try and prove something to the world?

It might also be a wise idea for Mr Trump to not continually insult his allies, or appear to to them, and remove his ego from the equation on occasion? 

Which allies would those be sir? Because I don't see our relationship with Merkel or Trudeau as allies as much as 'fair weather friends' (They're only with us as long as it's immediately beneficial to them. Allies are willing to tough out a low spot and support you anyway, because they know in the long run you're both better together)

On 1/14/2020 at 9:12 AM, Bob D said:

Maybe several nations will???  PLEASE!!!

Which nations might that be Papillion?  Name several candidates?  Please remember the countries you'll likely name won't even pay for alliances they entered into for their own defense.  

I can't believe you wrote something anti-US and anti-Trump.  What an interesting diversion from your normal communication.  Do I even need to type /SARC

 

Why the red arrow here Papillon? 

This seems like an extremely mild 'personal attack' if you can even go that far. Nor did he present any false information, nor was he overly offensive to anyone as far as I can tell?

Just saying - if you're going to call me out - I'm going to continue to point out your hypocrisy.

Btw - I support your efforts to state a different opinion - but he did ask a question (What nations) and provide his reason for why he doesn't think most nations would (they already don't pay for their current alliances).

On 1/14/2020 at 12:07 PM, Papillon said:

Trump - insults allies - who will help us? - maybe allies insulted by Trump would have? - which ones though? - the list Trump has insulted is that long is it? 

Let's make it easy then sir and say then that no one will help you shall we instead? You can pat yourselves on the back while ignoring why no one is helping? (hint - the insults aforementioned). Also, I mentioned the words 'maybe others'. You seem distracted by vague mentions of Mr Trump (your president), and so call it TDS?!

I apologise your president came up sir when you ask who will help the USA, of which he is the president. Who asked for help? Trump? As I said you appear to have the precise opposite of TDS, I assume there is a term for it? 

I know you can't. This is your problem, you appear to think no one has the right to either. You also still appear to not read what others have said, ever, but reply as if you have. This is a rather odd trait within conversation generally. Have a wonderful day sir. 

You still didn't answer his question. You avoided it by saying 'ok assume you're right' and then attacked him as having TDS.

Btw - you're the one that brought Trump into the discussion. Douglas said 'guess who will help them' (Implicit answer - the US. Most US presidents would. Not specific to Trump) You replied - 'Several nations', ok - what nations? And why is Trump relevant to this discussion?

On 1/14/2020 at 3:07 PM, Ward Smith said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest". Bonus points for knowing who said this.  

Don't go citing Churchill now Ward... =-P (It wasn't him - or at least not originally. Though I'd be impressed if you could tell me who did, because I don't know...)

18 hours ago, Papillon said:

And no sir, if anything I seem to offend American Republicans primarily. I appreciate that in your close minded world that is 'everyone' and all you care about, but believe me there are actually opposing views in the world sir. Living your life here in an echo chamber does not change this fact. Yet again the beer is becoming a problem perhaps. Good day everyone. 

For the record, I'm an American Independent, and Jan is a European currently in the American NE and, I believe, also Independent.

(For the record - I do appreciate your opposing views, just not when they're combative or insulting to others. Yes this stands for everyone. I also wish everyone would provide more support for their views... or at least outline their logical process.)

12 hours ago, Papillon said:

It is not the case sir that somebody should have to 'ignore' him. His abusive language and disgusting comments should have had him blocked or given a warning in a heartbeat.

It says quite a lot about users here that no one said a word about his vile comments, aside from you and I, until Mr Kirkman deleted it. They blatantly would have read what he said.

If the comment had been about one of Mr Trump's children there would have been uproar here. 

Not sure what comment he made that I missed... so can't comment on that.

But based on his actions in this Thread, I don't expect him to add value to this site and appears to violate the site policy. Not sure why those posts are allowed to stand??? (May also justify a temporary ban... that's what we always did at the site I moderated - to be clear, a very different site. Never permanent bans - always temporary of increasing length, and always only for clear violations of the written rules of conduct.)

Anyway...

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

14 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

On 1/14/2020 at 1:07 PM, Ward Smith said:

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest". Bonus points for knowing who said this.  

Don't go citing Churchill now Ward... =-P (It wasn't him - or at least not originally. Though I'd be impressed if you could tell me who did, because I don't know...)

I took some liberties with the language, but in a speech he said something similar

Unlike many, I can document with legitimate links  ;)

Quote

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

"It has been said" but by whom Winston doesn't tell us 

[Bob D + 562]

Everybody - Give as many red arrows as you like.  It doesn't mean anything.  I just gave myself a red arrow, called myself biased and then, in retaliation, I  punched myself in the face.   Good grief.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Bob D
Didn't give myself a Red Arrow. Can't give yourself a Red Arrow even if it's deserved.

[Papillon + 485]

16 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Just saying - if you're going to call me out - I'm going to continue to point out your hypocrisy.

My hypocrisy in what sir? What I choose to award a red arrow? This makes no sense and the fact you care what I award anything at all makes even less sense. 

16 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Not sure what comment he made that I missed... so can't comment on that.

He made a comment on what he would like to do with Greta Thunberg sir. Put it that way.

16 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Btw - you're the one that brought Trump into the discussion.     And why is Trump relevant to this discussion?

You are asking who will help the USA and do not see why your own president comes into the discussion? For not the first time, my point was that ''maybe others would help if..'', with regard to how his actions may have been viewed by the leaders of some European nations, that you wish to be allies. This is why Mr Trump came up. I am tired of being misquoted at will. If you take issue with my posts then ignore them sir. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Papillon

[Bob D + 562]

Stop analyzing why someone posts what they do.  Add to the subject of the dialogue instead of trying to be the ultimate arbiter of decency.  Everybody knows where everybody stands and quite frankly, nobody cares.  

[Otis11 + 551]

17 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I took some liberties with the language, but in a speech he said something similar

Unlike many, I can document with legitimate links  ;)

"It has been said" but by whom Winston doesn't tell us 

Yep - that's what I was getting at. 'It has been said' clearly indicated he didn't come up with it, but I have no idea who did.

But yes - great history knowledge there Ward. Was going to give you hard time about it, but you got it!

50 minutes ago, Papillon said:

My hypocrisy in what sir? What I choose to award a red arrow? This makes no sense and the fact you care what I award anything at all makes even less sense. 

He made a comment on what he would like to do with Greta Thunberg sir. Put it that way.

You are asking who will help the USA and do not see why your own president comes into the discussion? For not the first time, my point was that ''maybe others would help if..'', with regard to how his actions may have been viewed by the leaders of some European nations, that you wish to be allies. This is why Mr Trump came up. I am tired of being misquoted at will. If you take issue with my posts then ignore them sir. 

Papillion - the reason I've started paying attention to this is because you started asking why I was giving every red arrow I gave (which have all been for outstandingly poor manners/character attacks or reiterating things as facts that have already been clearly disproven in the current thread with no rebuttal - if you disagree, refute the facts being presented, don't ignore them and continue to state the disproven thing as fact. That ignores the point of a forum for discussion)

And yes, your hypocrisy. I stand by that and yes, it does make sense.

For the Greta Thunberg comment - If I saw it, I probably would have had a similar negative reaction to it, but please don't fault me for not reacting to something I didn't see and wasn't aware of.

And I don't take issues with your posts themselves - I actually appreciate the dissent when you support it with fact. I've just been seeing lots of attacks on 'hypocrites' recently and not much fact.

So here's your chance - you've been asked multiple times, what countries might intercede if not for the US?

33 minutes ago, Bob D said:

Stop analyzing why someone posts what they do.  Add to the subject of the dialogue instead of trying to be the ultimate arbiter of decency.  Everybody knows where everybody stands and quite frankly, nobody cares.  

Apologies Bob, I'll let it go now. I had just had enough of being called a hypocrite for no clear reason.

[Papillon + 485]

26 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

  you've been asked multiple times, what countries might intercede if not for the US?

For about the sixth time now sir, I said ''maybe other nations would help if...''  I have just explained this and said I am tired of being misquoted. So if you wish to 'ask multiple times' then do so, but it is a little pointless if you do not read my replies. 

26 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

please don't fault me for not reacting to something I didn't see and wasn't aware of.

You have said a few comments like this recently sir. With respect why would I attack something without knowing if you had even seen it? With regard to this comment for example, I was simply explaining to you the post you missed and why I will not take nonsense from Wombat, who I consider a drunken fool.

I think all this has come about sir due to a comment I made to you about ''will you attack this?'' with regard to humour of a questionable nature, and it was merely a genuine question at the time to you. You appear to have taken this as me labelling you yourself a hypocrite sir and I apologise, but that was not my intention. This was rather for you to see some of the double standards that I and others see here, that was all. I actually respect your views a great deal and the reason I wished to point it out to you specifically was precisely a hope that you may see this dynamic.

26 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

I had just had enough of being called a hypocrite for no clear reason.

Again, you are seeing it as a personal attack sir.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Papillon

[Otis11 + 551]

15 minutes ago, Papillon said:

For about the sixth time now sir, I said ''maybe other nations would help if...''  I have just explained this and said I am tired of being misquoted. So if you wish to 'ask multiple times' then do so, but it is a little pointless if you do not read my replies. 

You have said a few comments like this recently sir. With respect why would I attack something without knowing if you had even seen it? With regard to this comment for example, I was simply explaining to you the post you missed and why I will not take nonsense from Wombat, who I consider a drunken fool.

I think all this has come about sir due to a comment I made to you about ''will you attack this?'' with regard to humour of a questionable nature, and it was merely a genuine question at the time to you. You appear to have taken this as me labelling you yourself a hypocrite sir and I apologise, but that was not my intention. This was rather for you to see some of the double standards that I and others see here, that was all. I actually respect your views a great deal and the reason I wished to point it out to you specifically was precisely a hope that you may see this dynamic.

Again, you are seeing it as a personal attack sir.

'Maybe several nations will sir' was your exact quote - my apologies if I'm misunderstanding you and therefore misquoting you, but if you say 'maybe several nations will sir' it seems to me it's fair to ask which nations those might be? Not saying those nations will, as I understand you may not be able to commit those nations to action, but if I wanted nations to help, whom might I go ask?

You've made a reference to Wombat's post, to Douglas' post, and at least 1 other time I'm not remembering... and in every case, I did react fairly and apply my standards to both conservative and liberal comments - if I had seen them. But you specifically tagged me and asked if I was going to react fairly (And calling me a hypocrite for not reacting equitably, when in fact, I did once the post was later seen)

I hope you can see that there isn't a double standard from me - I am perfectly willing to call out bad behavior and lack of supporting evidence on both sides when I see it (not I may see it more on one side than another because I am aware of those facts - but feel free to use this opportunity to educate me on the facts I'm not aware of).

My apologies if I over reacted - yes, I absolutely took it as being called out for personally having a double standard or being a hypocrite.

Anyway, with apologies all around, hopefully we can get back to discussing more interesting things.

Cheers!

[Papillon + 485]

2 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

'maybe several nations will sir' it seems to me it's fair to ask which nations those might be?

Fair enough sir, I possibly should have said ''maybe several nations would have if ...''.  My point was more about how certain leaders of certain European nations may view Mr Trump, and that that may affect possible help, that was all. I wasn't even trying to suggest they should hold those views, I was making the point that some users are only seeing it through their eyes, and not their allies' eyes, and our own opinions of it are irrelevant.

For example, the user who replied to me about NATO and so on and how Trump has done nothing wrong. This is his view and not possibly shared by European leaders. That was my point, to see it as they are if possible. It seemed to then turn into this constant ''who Papillon, who, who?'' and ''why are you bringing up Mr Trump?'', which I found bizarre, plus I had said again and again 'maybe' others may help and so on. 

3 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

I hope you can see that there isn't a double standard from me

Of course sir, I want you to see it, that is all. That's why I originally made reference to you I believe, to bring your attention to it. 

4 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

My apologies if I over reacted - yes, I absolutely took it as being called out for personally having a double standard or being a hypocrite.

Again, no, I simply want you to see those double standards. If you think I do it too then point it out (but I don't   ).

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/14/2020 at 3:07 PM, Ward Smith said:

If it hadn't been for France, there likely wouldn't have been a United States of America. Not the country France is today of course, but the monarchy that Lafayette was part of. Interesting that his weapons and money injected into our causus belli appeared to lead by serpentine paths back to the French Revolution and the demise of his aristocratic peers. 

The fundamental problem of a major power like the US stepping into a country to try and create a democracy is that the locals haven't really got any skin in the game. Iraq for instance wasn't fighting for their own freedom, and when we gave them freedom, which they hadn't earned, they did nothing but line their pockets. 

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest". Bonus points for knowing who said this.  

https://www.bartleby.com/73/417.html  NUMBER:	417
AUTHOR:	Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (1874–1965)
QUOTATION:	Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
ATTRIBUTION:	WINSTON CHURCHILL, speech, House of Commons, November 11, 1947.—Winston S. Churchill: His Complete Speeches, 1897–1963, ed. Robert Rhodes James, vol. 7, p. 7566 (1974).
SUBJECTS:	Democracy

Edited January 19, 2020 by ronwagn
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