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Phase One trade deal, for China it is all about technology war

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22 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Fact?  Hardly. Your post is nothing but bigotry, ignorance, and limited education. Have you any idea of the meaning of intervene? Since when has China put troops on the ground in any of the locations you cite?  Where and how has China caused any country to be in servitude?

Let's see your facts.  

 

I guess you missed the history classes!!!!

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On 1/16/2020 at 9:28 AM, RichieRich216 said:

China is very adept at stealing our technology, President Obama made sure for his 8 years in office to weaken the United States military and allowed our technology to be stolen! A complete blackout of any foreign investment into critical business is needed as with no longer allowing the Chinese to study and participate in research here in the U.S.

Please cite just one proven incidence of such theft. 

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32 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Please cite just one proven incidence of such theft. 

Yeah   ...   IP theft is a myth, a mystery wrapped in a riddle.

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On 1/16/2020 at 12:20 AM, frankfurter said:

Fact?  Hardly. Your post is nothing but bigotry, ignorance, and limited education. Have you any idea of the meaning of intervene? Since when has China put troops on the ground in any of the locations you cite?  Where and how has China caused any country to be in servitude?

Let's see your facts.  

 

Since you are obviously a communist party agent then I am sure you know the history.

So for those who don't, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China

War on Tibet and annexation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_Tibet_into_the_People's_Republic_of_China

The takeover of S Vietnam Cambodia and Laos in the Vietnam war and installation of puppet regimes in each. Khmer Rouge run a Maoist policy and kill more than half of Cambodia's population. Vietnam goes rogue from under Chinese control, and are "punished" in the 1979 war with China. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide

War over Sikkim with India. 

That Nixon sought to normalize relations with China is insane. They should have had a permanent naval blockade instead and let the commies destroy themselves. .

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(edited)

7 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Please cite just one proven incidence of such theft. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-tech-usa-verdict/huawei-technologies-loses-trade-secrets-theft-case-against-u-s-chip-designer-idUSKCN1TR2YH

There are many more cases filed and complaints filed with US trade dept.

As a dutiful communist you obviously know of this "liberation" of knowledge from capitalist pigs, by Chinese officials and Chinese capitalist pigs, who are obviously innocent of capitalist crimes. 

There will be a step where the US Dept. of Justice will join in criminal cases against Chinese companies and individuals in a continuous chain that will end up with massive court rulings against Chinese companies and individuals for fines punitive damages and restitution, and will have their assets around the world seized. That may include subsidiaries of companies such as ZTE and Huawei and their real estate, including claims in China. It is the next step and to avoid it, the Chinese penalty will be mercantilist trade commitments of hundreds of billions of US imports. Just enough to put them over the edge into financial crisis, if their own internal leverage doesn't get them first.  

Edited by 0R0
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6 hours ago, Bob D said:

Yeah   ...   IP theft is a myth, a mystery wrapped in a riddle.

Like when the CIA stole a Russian spaceship, examined it and returned it, because they were so far behind.

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol11no1/html/v11i1a04p_0001.htm

China is a leader in 5G etc, just watch Apple start coping them.

 

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Just wanted to tie up some loose ends from before

20141205_Concrete_FO.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Just wanted to tie up some loose ends from before

20141205_Concrete_FO.jpg

Wow that’s one hell of a stat!

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Well, that is what having 4X as many people does for you. It was a magical wild ride.

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18 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Just wanted to tie up some loose ends from before

20141205_Concrete_FO.jpg

Total numbers are not that different if you take the same timescale for both China nad United States:

United States 1900-2019 (120 yearas) = 6,700 Megatons (+/-200)

China 1900-2019 (120 years) = 39,000 Megatons (+/- 1500)

The difference is increasing as US usage is about 100 Megatons in 2019 and China about 2,400 Megatons.

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5 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

Total numbers are not that different if you take the same timescale for both China nad United States:

United States 1900-2019 (120 yearas) = 6,700 Megatons (+/-200)

China 1900-2019 (120 years) = 39,000 Megatons (+/- 1500)

The difference is increasing as US usage is about 100 Megatons in 2019 and China about 2,400 Megatons.

Your source? Mine's right there in my post. Yours? 

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And it is cement data not concrete data.

Concrete is mixture of cement, sand etc. with 10-20% of cement content.

Concrete is also a nice type of mathematics.

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(edited)

3 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Your source? Mine's right there in my post. Yours? 

various sources: US: Geological Service data, China: China Statistical Office, before 1960 - China estimations as there is very low level of output and not a good statistics.

The US data I also corroborated with you number for 20th century, diff was less than 200 Mtons so it should be OK.

Edited by Marcin2
typo

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(edited)

37 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

And it is cement data not concrete data.

Concrete is mixture of cement, sand etc. with 10-20% of cement content.

Concrete is also a nice type of mathematics.

Still haven't seen a link. 

Concrete mathematics? You mean the Knuth textbook? 

Quote

The US data I also corroborated with you number for 20th century, diff was less than 200 Mtons so it should be OK.

6.7 gigatons corroborated with 4.7 gt how?

Edited by Ward Smith
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(edited)

Instead of triple proving the obvious, public data, back on topic.

US high-tech embargo about integrated circuits against China finally get rid of all weak points:

- ASML cancelled EUV machine shipment for SIMIC (under US pressure), SIMIC cannot go into 7 nm process, it was not so spectacular in the news, but it is much more significant than Huawei embargo, significant escalation,

- 25% US technology content rule against Huawei (and all of China) is being changed into 10% rule. Under new rule probably also TSMC will stop supplying chips to Huawei. If it happens Huawei consumer business will be finished till the end of this year.

significant escalation

I am really curious what would be next steps, especially how China would react.

US is conducting clever salami strategy as to prevent open conflict.

At the moment 10% rule and lack of supply from TSMC is effected any advanced chips are off limits to China.

In modern world integrated circuits are backbone of modern economy so this embargo is the same as oil embargo, and this should mean really significant escalation, with shooting war probable.

The other solution for China, out of direct confrontation with US is to excercise higher than United States pressure on the Netherlands and Taiwan.

The ants get trumpled when elephants are fighting

 

 

Edited by Marcin2
typo

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On 1/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, Marcin2 said:

You are right US 15 Poland 8 China 6.7. The way I formulated this was like China was to blame that it has 1.4 billion people, I am sorry.

US is not beloved, it is just the only solution, this is fact, not opinion.

What more important China cannot change its coal reliance cause there is not enough hydrocarbons on these planet for China to Overconsumption them the US way. And nuclear needs still 20 years to be scaled up.

 

China burns more coal than the rest of the world put together. It has actually increased coal use and is building coal plants for Third World Nations. Surprisingly, it was allowed to sign the Paris Climate Accords and receives no criticism from the globalists around the world. China should be importing LNG from around the world and has Russian and other piped gas from many other nations too. Coal creates real pollution, not just CO2. It is harming its own people the most, but also its neighbors and the ocean.

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9 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

China burns more coal than the rest of the world put together. It has actually increased coal use and is building coal plants for Third World Nations. Surprisingly, it was allowed to sign the Paris Climate Accords and receives no criticism from the globalists around the world. China should be importing LNG from around the world and has Russian and other piped gas from many other nations too. Coal creates real pollution, not just CO2. It is harming its own people the most, but also its neighbors and the ocean.

Ron, not enough oil and natural gas on this planet for China.

Ask Douglas, Tom and other guys with oil&gas experience, how easy it would be to increase natural gas output by 1,500 billion m3 so China can get rid of coal. Building 50 LNG terminals on Chinese shores and laying net pipelines across Eurasia would be less complicated part of the solution.

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1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

Instead of triple proving the obvious, public data, back on topic.

US high-tech embargo about integrated circuits against China finally get rid of all weak points:

- ASML cancelled EUV machine shipment for SIMIC (under US pressure), SIMIC cannot go into 7 nm process, it was not so spectacular in the news, but it is much more significant than Huawei embargo, significant escalation,

- 25% US technology content rule against Huawei (and all of China) is being changed into 10% rule. Under new rule probably also TSMC will stop supplying chips to Huawei. If it happens Huawei consumer business will be finished till the end of this year.

significant escalation

I am really curious what would be next steps, especially how China would react.

US is conducting clever salami strategy as to prevent open conflict.

At the moment 10% rule and lack of supply from TSMC is effected any advanced chips are off limits to China.

In modern world integrated circuits are backbone of modern economy so this embargo is the same as oil embargo, and this should mean really significant escalation, with shooting war probable.

The other solution for China, out of direct confrontation with US is to excercise higher than United States pressure on the Netherlands and Taiwan.

The ants get trumpled when elephants are fighting

SIMIC? You mean SMIC? 

I brought this up in the Taiwan thread several hours ago. TSMC is the Taiwan Prize that China lusts after. However, they don't realize the repercussions of meddling in global supply chains like that. The US could care less about "her highness" the president of Taiwan, but they've got strategic interest in keeping TSMC out of Beijing's clutches. SMIC can't steal intellectual property fast enough from TSMC to even pretend to keep up. TSMC has produced boats of 5nm chips already, they're extremely far ahead. You're dreaming if you believe that's all thanks to AMSL How many chips have you designed? 

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(edited)

On 1/18/2020 at 2:41 AM, 0R0 said:

Since you are obviously a communist party agent then I am sure you know the history.

So for those who don't, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China

War on Tibet and annexation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_Tibet_into_the_People's_Republic_of_China

The takeover of S Vietnam Cambodia and Laos in the Vietnam war and installation of puppet regimes in each. Khmer Rouge run a Maoist policy and kill more than half of Cambodia's population. Vietnam goes rogue from under Chinese control, and are "punished" in the 1979 war with China. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide

War over Sikkim with India. 

That Nixon sought to normalize relations with China is insane. They should have had a permanent naval blockade instead and let the commies destroy themselves. .

Pot calling a grey kettle blacker.  The US has been at war for 93% of its existence. There was only 21 years or of her existence where the US didn't kill other people.  

https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946

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2 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Ron, not enough oil and natural gas on this planet for China.

Ask Douglas, Tom and other guys with oil&gas experience, how easy it would be to increase natural gas output by 1,500 billion m3 so China can get rid of coal. Building 50 LNG terminals on Chinese shores and laying net pipelines across Eurasia would be less complicated part of the solution.

I assure you that LNG could replace all the needs of China and eliminate the coal use. I hereby invite all the experts to weigh in on this issue. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281873/worldwide-reserves-of-natural-gas/

1 quadrillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogas

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/The-Superpower-Energy-Project-To-Watch-In-2020.html

https://geology.com/articles/methane-hydrates/ The largest resource of all. 

All of the above could be produced domestically in China if they wanted clean air. Meanwhile they are shortening the lifespans of billions of people around the world. 

 

Edited by ronwagn
added reference
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On 1/18/2020 at 2:41 AM, 0R0 said:

Since you are obviously a communist party agent then I am sure you know the history.

So for those who don't, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People's_Republic_of_China

War on Tibet and annexation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_Tibet_into_the_People's_Republic_of_China

The takeover of S Vietnam Cambodia and Laos in the Vietnam war and installation of puppet regimes in each. Khmer Rouge run a Maoist policy and kill more than half of Cambodia's population. Vietnam goes rogue from under Chinese control, and are "punished" in the 1979 war with China. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide

War over Sikkim with India. 

That Nixon sought to normalize relations with China is insane. They should have had a permanent naval blockade instead and let the commies destroy themselves. .

1/ Wikipedia is a poor source for historical information. It has been proven to spread falsehoods. 
2/ Tibet region has been populated by a mix of races for about 20,000 years, and has been under the control of various dynasties. From ca 600 to 1904, Tibet was under the rule of Chinese emperors. In 1903/4, Britain invaded Tibet, up to Lhasa. This culminated with a treaty between BRITAIN AND CHINA: NOT between Britain and Tibet. Ponder that for a moment. Why would Britain not sign with a Tibet? Answer: how can you sign with a non-entity? BRITAIN THUS RECOGNISED TIBET AS PART OF CHINA. The Treaty of 1904 included, inter alia, a provision that Tibet shall have no relations with any other other foreign powers (effectively converting Tibet into a British protectorate). The British then tried to carve up Tibet and give large parts to India. This action violated the Treaty and effectively voided it. When the British left India, China took back what Britain had stolen by force, and the rest is history.
3/ Vietnam. The USA started the Vietnam war by invasion. Somehow you hold China accountable for this?  Man, you are warped.
4/ Khmer Rouge. The founders of Khmer Rouge were VIETNAMESE. To infer China created this party is also warped.
5/ The Cambodian Civil War was a conflict that pitted the forces of the Communist Party of Kampuchea (known as the Khmer Rouge) and their allies the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam) and the Viet Cong against the government forces of the Kingdom of Cambodia and, after October 1970, the Khmer Republic, which were supported by the United States and the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). China did not instigate this war. 
6/ Sikkim. Again, warped. China built roads and moved troops UP TO the border, NOT across the border. Why China cannot build a road in its own territory? Why the USA cannot build a wall on the border with Mexico?  Your inference is ludicrous. 
7/ We have never met. Yet, you are SURE I am a member of the CCP. Amazing. This is beyond bigotry. Ludicrous.

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58 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I assure you that LNG could replace all the needs of China and eliminate the coal use. I hereby invite all the experts to weigh in on this issue. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281873/worldwide-reserves-of-natural-gas/

1 quadrillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogas

https://geology.com/articles/methane-hydrates/ The largest resource of all. 

All of the above could be produced domestically in China if they wanted clean air. Meanwhile they are shortening the lifespans of billions of people around the world. 

 

For clarity of calculation assume you want to get rid of 80% of Chinese coal, not 70% as in my previous post. So you would need 1,500 million tons of oil equivalent in natural gas. You would need to increased current output by 50%. Global natural gas reserves are only 160 billion tons.
Please find any opinion anywhere, you are completely free to seek sources, ask any of your oilprice friends:

Is it possible to increase output of natural gas by 50% ( just for consumption of China) ????

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On 1/15/2020 at 4:13 PM, Bob D said:

Greta will eventually turn her evil stare at China as the trends will continue.

Don't hold your breath Bob. Please let me know when you hear that Greta has spoken out against China. 

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Communist as in the loosely organized communist parties around the world and the Socialist International where the CCP does participate and obtains the place of honor. 

The principle of self determination and Tibet's defacto self rule put its' position outside Britain's scope to affect its sovereignty. Still a war of occupation. 

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1 minute ago, Marcin2 said:

For clarity of calculation assume you want to get rid of 80% of Chinese coal, not 70% as in my previous post. So you would need 1,500 million tons of oil equivalent in natural gas. You would need to increased current output by 50%. Global natural gas reserves are only 160 billion tons.
Please find any opinion anywhere, you are completely free to seek sources, ask any of your oilprice friends:

Is it possible to increase output of natural gas by 50% ( just for consumption of China) ????

If you are not going to read the facts I present I will not be bothered with you. Same goes for others. 

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