Indonesia Stands Up to China. Will Japan Help?

[frankfurter + 562]

The US bombed and entered by force Afghanistan, Iran, Libya, Syria. This is akin to break and entry, which even you should acknowledge is a crime in your country. The US has continued to keep troops in those countries. The US refuses to leave at the request of the governments of those countries, The US controls all the resources in those countries, and takes all the revenues.  Trump has even admitted this publicly: he keeps the troops in Syria for the oil. To you, this is not occupation: it is training.  Amazing.  I have no idea what you mean by provisional control, but the term provisional means 'for the time being'.  This is exactly what the US has accomplished in those countries: full control for the time being; but the time being is now time continuing: ie occupation. 

Why am I not surprised you wish no further debate? 

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 1/18/2020 at 11:47 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Human Rights Watch: China Is “Existential Threat” To Global Freedom

Warns of “a dystopian future in which no one is beyond the reach of Chinese censors”

Non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch warned Wednesday that if China continues to go unchecked, it threatens to enslave the entire global population and eviscerate freedom for good.

In its annual report, the think tank cautioned that the Communist Chinese government is using technology, censorship and violent repression to such an effective extent that it threatens to fundamentally undermine international human rights forever.

“Beijing has long suppressed domestic critics. Now the Chinese government is trying to extend that censorship to the rest of the world,” the 652-page report concluded.

HRW declared that China is now engaged in the “most intense attack” ever on freedom, and that President Xi Jinping’s government is executing“the most brutal and pervasive oppression that China has seen for decades,” including the implementation of a “nightmarish surveillance system” in Xinjiang province.

The report outlines how China is using its might to systematically silence political dissidents, religious groups, and ethnic minorities.

The report is so damning that Beijing banned HRW executive director, Kenneth Roth, from traveling to Hong Kong to attend an event to release it. Instead, the report was launched at the United Nations headquarters in New York.  ...

Given the stance of loonie lefties in the West, I suppose China feels invincible? "Only stupid people are breeding..." (Harvey Danger).

[Wombat + 1,028]

13 hours ago, frankfurter said:

The US bombed and entered by force Afghanistan, Iran, Libya, Syria. This is akin to break and entry, which even you should acknowledge is a crime in your country. The US has continued to keep troops in those countries. The US refuses to leave at the request of the governments of those countries, The US controls all the resources in those countries, and takes all the revenues.  Trump has even admitted this publicly: he keeps the troops in Syria for the oil. To you, this is not occupation: it is training.  Amazing.  I have no idea what you mean by provisional control, but the term provisional means 'for the time being'.  This is exactly what the US has accomplished in those countries: full control for the time being; but the time being is now time continuing: ie occupation. 

Why am I not surprised you wish no further debate? 

 

As far as I can see, you are not debating anyone, you just have bad case of verbal diarrhea. Besides, what makes you think anyone here wants a fucken debate? Nobody cares if you put your opinion across, just stop the trolling.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Selva
inappropriate language

[Boat + 1,315]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:34 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Fair enough rebuttal.

On the other hand, I see creeping censorship by China already infecting the Western world, who seem generally all to happy to accomodate Chinese authoritarian censorship in order to make a quick buck. 

For example, Hollywood is already infested with China's censorship.  Criticising China in Hollywood movies is currently verboten, because China has invested loads of money in Hollywood.

Ah ha, back to the GM of the Houston Rockets who tweeted support for the protesting Hong Kong citizens. Nike pulled their relationship with the Rockets as did China. While the NBA came out in support of free speech they did nothing against Nike or China. Kinda like the football players kneeling. Free speech is ok till it costs millions. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:39 PM, Marcin2 said:

AOS is actually really pretty. At least the nicest of all Congresswomen.

She's only 29 yrs old. We all were better looking then. Let's see what Occasional Cortex looks like in another 30 years. Another 40 pounds and 40,000 wrinkles and she might require 4 boilermakers to get picked up at the local tavern. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

She's only 29 yrs old. We all were better looking then. Let's see what Occasional Cortex looks like in another 30 years. Another 40 pounds and 40,000 wrinkles and she might require 4 boilermakers to get picked up at the local tavern. 

I was DAMNED good looking when I was 29! Finer than frog hair I was! 30 years of gravity, running around the world and some bad decision making processes in my youth has effectively eradicated the stunning good looks of the past.

If I stand real still in the front yard now, I get mistaken for a garden gnome....but it’s been a heck of a ride.

I think OC will be a ‘one trick pony’ and she’ll fade back into the woodwork shortly. One can only hope.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:25 AM, Marcin2 said:

Read again latest 6 lines of my comment. Nobody can partition Indonesia cause it is against Chinese interests, but nobody else's interest. For Australia and US interests it would be better if Indonesia is a group of small, fighting with each other countries. Indonesia is the major nation in ASEAN and is very important for China. Natuna conflict is not important for the overall relations. Much more important is situation of Chinese diaspora in Indonesia.

I guess this is why, in the last week or so, the Indonesians have expressed anger over Chinese fishing fleets, fishing in Indonesian waters, protected by Chinese Coast Guard vessels...interesting. Oh, forgot about the 9 Line Map, Indonesia does not have any ‘Indonesian waters...

Furthermore, you mention the Chinese Diaspora, which did occur centuries ago. What you seem to ignore is that the Malaysian Chinese, the Indonesian Chinese, the Thai Chinese, the Singaporeans, etc... who are ethnic Chinese, do not identify themselves as Chinese! They are Malaysians, Thai, Indonesian, Singaporean, etc... I feel that this is accurate as I am married to a Malaysian Chinese lady and discussed it with her.

By your reasoning, all those Irish folks that left Eire in the early 1800’s to resettle in the US would still identify as Irish...they don’t. If you were to ask them they would say that they are pesky, disillusioned, arrogant, ignorant Americans - and proud of it!

[SERWIN + 749]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:14 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

By your reasoning, all those Irish folks that left Eire in the early 1800’s to resettle in the US would still identify as Irish...they don’t. If you were to ask them they would say that they are pesky, disillusioned, arrogant, ignorant Americans - and proud of it!

But in this country if you are black you identify as "African" American, not just American. If you are of Hispanic origin you identify as "Mexican American", not just American. It is akin to me identifying as "Welsh" American. I was born here, therefore I am simply American

[John Foote + 1,135]

9 hours ago, SERWIN said:

But in this country if you are black you identify as "African" American, not just American. If you are of Hispanic origin you identify as "Mexican American", not just American. It is akin to me identifying as "Welsh" American. I was born here, therefore I am simply American

Blacks don't have a choice in the matter because of how they are perceived based on skin color. I am very much hispanic, but to me I am just American, and the only way people can identify me as anything but a plain white bread American is knowing my middle name or I tell them. 

More than a few African Americans I knew while living as an expat found it liberating to live overseas, then they were "just American." Which is what many of them crave. 

[frankfurter + 562]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:49 AM, Wombat said:

As far as I can see, you are not debating anyone, you just have bad case of verbal diarrhea. Besides, what makes you think anyone here wants a fucken debate? Nobody cares if you put your opinion across, just stop the trolling.

Yet another drugged-up, dumbed-down, funcken ignorant 'murcam. Anybody with a view different from your own is a troll. Too cowardly to face the facts and debate civilly. Always must resort to harsh diatribe. Again, good to have you espouse your hatred, for all to see and take precautions. 

[frankfurter + 562]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:08 AM, ronwagn said:

Indonesia is not even physically close to China, except in China's hegemonic dreams. The Chinese diaspora in Indonesia is important however. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Indonesia_relations

True. The regions you show are quite distant from China. Per your claim, China is stealing fish. The US bombed Vietnam for 30 years and bombed Libya for far less reason, and later sent troops to occupy Syria and steal its oil.  So why is the US not attacking China for such terrible aggression?  

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

Gents why don't you stop the pissing contest?

And it might be a good idea to stop the personal insults and respect each others opinion.

If you both have an IQ of 150+ start using it!

[Boat + 1,315]

On 1/18/2020 at 2:53 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Now would be a perfect time for all of the countries affected by China’s ridiculous 9-line map claims to join forces and stand up to China (with the present situation in Hong Kong and the recent election in Taiwan). It would be nice if the nations concerned with ‘freedom of navigation’ pitched in to help.

I believe they have met, sent an armada, some were putting weapon systems on the coast etc. This is just a slow burn issue China decided to keep alive knowing there will be a fight if they get to frisky.

[frankfurter + 562]

4 minutes ago, Boat said:

I believe they have met, sent an armada, some were putting weapon systems on the coast etc. This is just a slow burn issue China decided to keep alive knowing there will be a fight if they get to frisky.

So with all the firepower and aligned countries, why doesn't the USA simply fire the 1st shot and rid the world of the evil Chines communists?  

[Boat + 1,315]

On 1/19/2020 at 5:38 AM, frankfurter said:

Are you off your rocker?

The world does indeed support the Iranian people. China has tried to supply Iran with critically needed goods, such as medicines, food, garments. China has tried to provide liquidity by purchasing crude. Europe tried to uphold the nuclear treaty. The world wants to avert a catastrophe.  Who opposes all this?  Who stole Iran's currency reserves? Who killed a general recently?  Only two countries; USA and Israel. The US sanctions everybody and anybody who tries to conduct trade with Iran: to the point of arresting people extra- judicially and territoriality.  If the US can't arrest, then it will murder. 

The issue of an independent Taiwan is only one issue; American.  Formosa belonged to China for centuries prior to the Japanese occupation, then followed by USA intervention to support a fugitive, puppet president.  China has never retreated from its position of Formosa belonging to China: and the entire world accepts this; only the USA does not. 

The South China Sea is an issue for the respective countries to resolve. These countries are sovereign: the USA has zero jurisdiction over any of them. The USA has zero right to intervene. 

If, by backbone, you mean the world should stand up to the USA bully by use of force, I hope the world may be spared from such barbarism. 

 

Whoboy, do our understandings differ. Any country/Syria/Iran/religious terrorists/those who fund or help them is and always be in the crosshairs. Get over it. 
You claim water that the US and our ally’s trade on outside the 200 mile zone, don’t make promises you can’t keep. And yes if militaries from these offending countries try to impose their will I would guess they would be introduced to barbarism up to and including WWII action. This is set in stone, WWII proved the dangers of Authoritarian rule.

[frankfurter + 562]

11 hours ago, Wombat said:

< comment hidden by moderator >

Must I know?  No, I don't care to know of your sexual deprivations, however proud you may be. But your predilection for a nuclear war is worth knowing, so the rest of us can be forewarned and forearmed. In my experience, the people who advocate such destruction are never the ones who are pressed into the fighting. Your cowardly presidents Clinton, Bush, Trump must be true role models for the soldiers, no? Given your exalted status to cross their paths, seems some aspects of their characters have rubbed off on you? 

[frankfurter + 562]

11 minutes ago, Boat said:

Whoboy, do our understandings differ. Any country/Syria/Iran/religious terrorists/those who fund or help them is and always be in the crosshairs. Get over it. 
You claim water that the US and our ally’s trade on outside the 200 mile zone, don’t make promises you can’t keep. And yes if militaries from these offending countries try to impose their will I would guess they would be introduced to barbarism up to and including WWII action. This is set in stone, WWII proved the dangers of Authoritarian rule.

uh, The only country since 1945 who has and continues to impose its will upon others is the USA. After the bombing stops and the CIA is in control, the USA imposes dictators (military or civilian) upon the local peoples. 

[Boat + 1,315]

On 1/19/2020 at 5:13 AM, frankfurter said:

"To simply sit back and allow China to act, without consequences, especially to ‘grab’ another country which they have no legal ‘title’ to and whose citizens do not want to be Chinese subjects would show a serious lack of honor, responsibility and backbone."

Interesting.  Which country has China grabbed, in your eyes?   

Now, how can the world help the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya?  You telling me the USA has a God-given right to occupy those countries?  Seems to me the citizens there would like to see the US troops be gone. Or how about the outright "grabs" by the US of what became the US Territories?  Is Iran next to be occupied?

 

Frank, your sounding rather silly. Occupy? Let’s take the great state of Texas. How many does it take to keep humans in check where everything is bigger. The US has less than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. There are over 100,000 in law enforcement inTexas. That’s not counting judges, the US military bases and etc etc. 

The US has tiny reaction forces to bloody the nose of offenders and pretty much have to fly in to hot spots to get it done. No offenders? No fly.

Without doing the research I would bet Dallas and Houston alone have more enforcement than all of Afghanistan.

[Boat + 1,315]

33 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

uh, The only country since 1945 who has and continues to impose its will upon others is the USA. After the bombing stops and the CIA is in control, the USA imposes dictators (military or civilian) upon the local peoples. 

The CIA should get a lot more credit then. Them Germans, Italians and Japanese do well under control of the CIA. And look how China and Russia have blossomed by being guided by the CIA. I would say a few trillion are owed the CIA for keeping all these countries from killing each other.

You can help with the confusion. Does the CIA get credit for Mexico? Canada? Australia? Singapore? It’s just hard to track all the good they do. 

[SERWIN + 749]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

Must I know?  No, I don't care to know of your sexual deprivations, however proud you may be. But your predilection for a nuclear war is worth knowing, so the rest of us can be forewarned and forearmed. In my experience, the people who advocate such destruction are never the ones who are pressed into the fighting. Your cowardly presidents Clinton, Bush, Trump must be true role models for the soldiers, no? Given your exalted status to cross their paths, seems some aspects of their characters have rubbed off on you? 

You sir, have neglected to mention the biggest coward of the presidents, Obama. The single most useless president in the entire history of our country. May I inquire as to what country you do hail from?

[frankfurter + 562]

21 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

You sir, have neglected to mention the biggest coward of the presidents, Obama. The single most useless president in the entire history of our country. May I inquire as to what country you do hail from?

Did Obama dodge the draft?  I thought not, but his details are somewhat shady.  I am not American, which is all I am prepared to say, lest my troll status be altered.  🙂  

[SERWIN + 749]

Lol, I'm not trolling you, I was just curious. No worries here. And Obama wasn't in the country for any draft, I do believe he came from Kenya to attend college here on a student visa, so he wouldn't have been considered for a "draft"....

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

The heck is going on with the personal insults in this thread?  Thread locked for now, to let tempers cool down, and I will go back and clean up some of the comments here.  Jeez, I'm offline for a day and then get alerted to the mess here.  Warnings about comments will be issued privately.

 

/ edit    cleanup on aisle 3 complete, and thread unlocked.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

21 hours ago, frankfurter said:

So with all the firepower and aligned countries, why doesn't the USA simply fire the 1st shot and rid the world of the evil Chines communists?  

Because A) that would be stupid, and B) it would make you happy.