Europe’s Green Deal: Same Hysteria, Same Destruction

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

44 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

So you post a link to bullshit conspiracy theories and tell me that somewhere in that pile of bullshit is a link to a peer-reviewed journal.  Is that really all your argument amounts to?

Ah, whining about strawman conspiracy rating made up by those against the the actual data.  Ok.🙄

Intellectual honesty anywhere to be found???  Nope.  Keep running away; solves all your problems I have been told. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

12 hours ago, Wombat said:

I reckon that China is all Yin and no Yang, what do u think?

The " conspiracy" video is factual.

The NOAA manipulation of the data is not justified by any supporting facts. It is an outright politically driven FAKE. The peer review can not clean out the fake junk science because all of the participants rely on grants for their research so can only tow the official line. Al gore established the mechanism within the US and then global climate science as a communist censorship method to promote only research that supports the human CO2 global warming thesis and suppress everything else. That is the population of peers. It is structured to produce a consistent outcome to all published research. Same thing that happens in medical publications that are dominated  by drug companies.Peer review is easily manipulated.

The reality is traded off the publications in direct postings of research findings on researcher's open or password protected content. They need to protect themselves from kool aide drinkers such as yourself that believe in the system rather than the actual facts in the science.

The database that is used by the climate science modelers was made up of fake data with no notes as to how it was derived till the the manipulation came out in the scientific press and leaked into the public eye. Then they allowed you to screen out the in fill data and "corrections". If you run the models on the actual data then you will get a huge error band on your results, thus being unable to make any claim for your forecasts. Then there is the issue of incorporating historical data that is not CO2 into the models. Like particulate cover, Sunlight distribution in the seasons according to the changes of the Aphelion and perihelion and particulate cover and its geographic distribution.

Look beyond claims of authority out of the peer review process, and look at the actual science. The process has been broken by political manipulation. It has become sheer propaganda and censorship machine.

In the case of the video, you can go and test everything the guy says. Reach your own conclusions.

As I pointed out before, there is nothing in the data but for the "adjusted" values to create the forecasts. Take them out and you have at best a 60 40 balance towards warming being above 0.

This is not to take away from any of te actual effects.of particulate and CO2 emissions, particularly in the context of the current seasonal perihelion and aphelion which cause short winters and long summers..In particular we need to stop coal and heavy fuel so as to get the oceans to produce more vapor. The CO2 effect we can deal with as renewables expand. But in the short term, we will have a short term REAL rise in temperatures if we don't create deliberate geographic particulate cover where necessary.

The main impediment to CO2 absorption is the lack of rainfall in formerly lush green areas that have become arid. 

The zeal of the governments to tax CO2 in order to feed their power and control over everything is the main thing to remove from the discussion. Particularly the UN and intergovernmental forums have to be shutdown. .    

The climate change world is "through the looking glass". Hardly anything is as it seems. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

So you post a link to bullshit conspiracy theories and tell me that somewhere in that pile of bullshit is a link to a peer-reviewed journal.  Is that really all your argument amounts to?

As pointed out before. The conspiracy is what the governments and media are promoting. The link is to a real review of the science. 

If you want to be factual then check out the calculations as the author provides links to databases where you can access everything. There are other ways to interpret the actual data. The manipulated data is produced from the model that is supposed to be derived from it. Obviously no science involved in that but a purely political contamination of the scientific process.

 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

 

Going to reiterate the ammonia discussion over here.

So this isn't very fun. We'll say that offshore wind falls in the $100 per MW/h range. Since it takes around 20 MW/h of renewable power to produce ammonia without fossil fuels, we're looking at a cost of $2000 per metric ton. Does that sound affordable? 

Other industries affected:

-Clinker plants (cement)

-Steel making and alloying (electric arc furnace)

-Glass making

-Chloro Alkali industry

-Machining in all its various forms

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by KeyboardWarrior

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Dang it, which conspiracy theory is going to kill us all?  Will Global Warming kill us all, or is that now passe and we now switch back to Global Cooling again?  Is the New Ice Age the new black now?

Earth Is About To Enter A 30-Year "Mini Ice Age" As The Sun Hibernates, Scientist Warns

A scientist has warned that Earth could be facing a mini ice age due to the Sun radiating less energy and heat toward our planet. According to the expert, this would mean that the planet would be plunged into a period of extreme winter and chilly cold storms during the next 30 years.

According to NASA, the Sun will reach its lowest activity in over two centuries in 2020. As a result of it going into a natural period of hibernation, Earth could see temperatures drop, resulting in food shortages on a global scale. The temperature could also drop by as much as one degree Celsius over a period of roughly 12 months—an incremental yet significant change in climate conditions that could have unpredictable results.

Valentina Zharkova, a professor at Northumbria University’s department of mathematics, physics, and electrical engineering, told the Sun that the period will be an expanded version of the solar minimums that naturally occur every 11 years. However, rather than lasting only a few years, the “Grand Solar Minimum” could last for up to 33 years.

The professor, who has published multiple scientific papers on the subject, said:

“The Sun is approaching a hibernation period.

Less sunspots will be formed on the solar surface and thus less energy and radiation will be emitted towards the planets and the Earth.

The reduction in temperature will results in cold weathers on Earth, wet and cold summers, cold and wet winters.

We will possibly get big frosts as is happening now in Canada where they see [temperatures] of -50 C (-122 F).

But this is only the start of GSM, there is more to come in the next 33 years.”

The last Grand Solar Minimum known to have occurred was the Maunder Minimum, which lasted from 1645 to 1715. During that frigid 70-year period, temperatures plummeted across the globe and famous waterways in Europe including the Thames and Amsterdam canal completely froze over.

[Wombat + 1,028]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Dang it, which conspiracy theory is going to kill us all?  Will Global Warming kill us all, or is that now passe and we now switch back to Global Cooling again?  Is the New Ice Age the new black now?

Earth Is About To Enter A 30-Year "Mini Ice Age" As The Sun Hibernates, Scientist Warns

A scientist has warned that Earth could be facing a mini ice age due to the Sun radiating less energy and heat toward our planet. According to the expert, this would mean that the planet would be plunged into a period of extreme winter and chilly cold storms during the next 30 years.

According to NASA, the Sun will reach its lowest activity in over two centuries in 2020. As a result of it going into a natural period of hibernation, Earth could see temperatures drop, resulting in food shortages on a global scale. The temperature could also drop by as much as one degree Celsius over a period of roughly 12 months—an incremental yet significant change in climate conditions that could have unpredictable results.

Valentina Zharkova, a professor at Northumbria University’s department of mathematics, physics, and electrical engineering, told the Sun that the period will be an expanded version of the solar minimums that naturally occur every 11 years. However, rather than lasting only a few years, the “Grand Solar Minimum” could last for up to 33 years.

The professor, who has published multiple scientific papers on the subject, said:

“The Sun is approaching a hibernation period.

Less sunspots will be formed on the solar surface and thus less energy and radiation will be emitted towards the planets and the Earth.

The reduction in temperature will results in cold weathers on Earth, wet and cold summers, cold and wet winters.

We will possibly get big frosts as is happening now in Canada where they see [temperatures] of -50 C (-122 F).

But this is only the start of GSM, there is more to come in the next 33 years.”

The last Grand Solar Minimum known to have occurred was the Maunder Minimum, which lasted from 1645 to 1715. During that frigid 70-year period, temperatures plummeted across the globe and famous waterways in Europe including the Thames and Amsterdam canal completely froze over.

Hi Tom, I have a New Scientist magazine from about 12 years ago and the headline was "Saved by the Sun"! Indeed, we have known about the new Maunder minimum for a long time and it is the main reason we got silly headlines about "global cooling" about 6-7 years ago but unfortunately, the rise in global temperatures is EXPONENTIAL! The Maunder minimum is nowhere near enough to prevent rising temperatures. We really need to reduce greenhouse gases and deforestation. Simple as that.

[Wombat + 1,028]

16 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You are obviously an idiot. Ignoring someone with decades of practical, real life experience never ends well.

I do not ignore Tom. I love the way he gets us all talking and think he is a great moderator. I just despair at the fact that he doesn't realise that the only conspiracy is that by big oil.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Wombat said:

Hi Tom, I have a New Scientist magazine from about 12 years ago and the headline was "Saved by the Sun"! Indeed, we have known about the new Maunder minimum for a long time and it is the main reason we got silly headlines about "global cooling" about 6-7 years ago but unfortunately, the rise in global temperatures is EXPONENTIAL! The Maunder minimum is nowhere near enough to prevent rising temperatures. We really need to reduce greenhouse gases and deforestation. Simple as that.

Perhaps, but then why don’t we target a significant greenhouse ‘gas’, say water vapor?

Has anyone definitively determined the role that solar activity plays in the global warming debate? Can solar activity be correlated with the global temperature fluctuations recorded in the past?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

51 minutes ago, Wombat said:

I do not ignore Tom. I love the way he gets us all talking and think he is a great moderator. I just despair at the fact that he doesn't realise that the only conspiracy is that by big oil.

Right, Big Oil is a big conspiracy...to do what exactly? Do you have any unbiased supporting material to base your conspiracy theory on?

I personally believe that ‘Climate Change’ is a big conspiracy to scare scientifically challenged (how’s that for political correctness) into giving money to elitists with a huge carbon footprint such as Harrison Ford, Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, DiCaprio to name a few.

[0R0 + 6,251]

23 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Perhaps, but then why don’t we target a significant greenhouse ‘gas’, say water vapor?

Has anyone definitively determined the role that solar activity plays in the global warming debate? Can solar activity be correlated with the global temperature fluctuations recorded in the past?

Yes.

There is a correlation of the sunspot cycle and temperatures well beyond the scale of global warming model projections. Those, of course, don't include this "extraneous" data. 

Martin Armstrong's all to all correlation engine's strongest correlations are to prolonged sunspot cycles marking the extinction of empires as the temperatures drop. It also works in reverse as increased sunspot activity is correlated to the rise of empires and large population expansions. The main difference is that contrary to Prof. Zharkova, the winters and summers are dryer and growth seasons shorten. E.g. N. Europe central China and N America don't produce a winter crop. 

[Wombat + 1,028]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Right, Big Oil is a big conspiracy...to do what exactly? Do you have any unbiased supporting material to base your conspiracy theory on?

I personally believe that ‘Climate Change’ is a big conspiracy to scare scientifically challenged (how’s that for political correctness) into giving money to elitists with a huge carbon footprint such as Harrison Ford, Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, DiCaprio to name a few.

Doug, I am not "scientifically challenged". You are. I have an IQ of 150+ and degrees in PHYSICS, Environmental and Agricultural Science, plus Business. Big oil is in a "survival conspiracy". How many headlines like these will it take to convince you...?

Gasmaggedon-Sweeps-Over-Global-Gas-Market.htm

[Wombat + 1,028]

 

If oil and gas were still the cheapest forms of creating electricity and heat, you wouldn't have these headlines? I really don't care if u got ur head in the sand over climate change, SCIENTISTS (like me), are fixing it whether you or Tom like it or not!

[Wombat + 1,028]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Perhaps, but then why don’t we target a significant greenhouse ‘gas’, say water vapor?

Has anyone definitively determined the role that solar activity plays in the global warming debate? Can solar activity be correlated with the global temperature fluctuations recorded in the past?

ICYMI, we ARE combatting excess water vapour. The largest source of Anthropic water vapour is coal-fired power stations, not our lungs!

[Wombat + 1,028]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Right, Big Oil is a big conspiracy...to do what exactly? Do you have any unbiased supporting material to base your conspiracy theory on?

I personally believe that ‘Climate Change’ is a big conspiracy to scare scientifically challenged (how’s that for political correctness) into giving money to elitists with a huge carbon footprint such as Harrison Ford, Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, DiCaprio to name a few.

I bet you have never even heard of "Blackbody Radiation"?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

25 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Doug, I am not "scientifically challenged". You are. I have an IQ of 150+ and degrees in PHYSICS, Environmental and Agricultural Science, plus Business. Big oil is in a "survival conspiracy". How many headlines like these will it take to convince you...?

Gasmaggedon-Sweeps-Over-Global-Gas-Market.htm 129.01 kB · 0 downloads

You can say you have anything on an anonymous forum, moron!

You’re likely a high school pom pom girl in your mother’s basement!

[Wombat + 1,028]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You can say you have anything on an anonymous forum, moron!

You’re likely a high school pom pom girl in your mother’s basement!

Haha, believe me, I am far too old and ugly for that

[entertenter + 24]

I wouldn't call it climate hysteria. There are real trends and real concerns. I live in a country that is traditionally considered as a northern country. And I can see a pattern of weather changing warmer with every year. That is called a climate change. For example in seventies and eighties winter started already at the end of November. It means that temperature dropped constantly below freezing and there was a thick snow coverage up until the end of March or beginning of April. Since that time a snow coverage time has shortened by 1-2 months. Which means that Christmas time is now black, not white anymore for most of the past 10 years. Cold temperature records remain in the distant past while hot temperature records are broken almost every year. This winter so far has been completely without snow coverage, with average temperatures above freezing. That has never happened before. Usually, in the past we had periods during the winter time when temperatures dropped for weeks below -20C. And I remember one morning -32C in eighties. Last year Temperatures never dropped below -10C And this year coldest night was -6C. Normally sea freezes during winter, so that we can drive to our islands by car. For the last 5 years ice roads have operated for unusually short time. Like week or two only instead of months. This year there is even no sign of iceforming on the sea, That is again something new that has never happened.
 

Edited February 6, 2020 by entertenter

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

“I live in a country that is traditionally considered as a northern country. And I can see a pattern in weather changing more and more warm. That is called a climate change.”

This type of thinking is a big part of the problem with the ‘climate change’ debate! You see a warming trend, in the area you live in, and tell the rest of us to WAKE UP.

Have you ever stopped to consider that your little neck of the woods may not be representative of the entire planet. Friends of mine in the Colorado Rockies and the Northeast say it is getting noticeably colder with more snowfall the past few years. In their minds, using your metric, we are in a period of global cooling!

’Changing weather patterns’ would be a more accurate description.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

6 hours ago, Wombat said:

I do not ignore Tom. I love the way he gets us all talking and think he is a great moderator. I just despair at the fact that he doesn't realise that the only conspiracy is that by big oil.

Dang it, how did you discover that I am part of the only real conspiracy?

We in the Big Oil Conspiracy Cabal are not amused that you have woken up the oil consuming sheeple to our nefarious oily plans.

Conspoilacy is now a word.

[Wombat + 1,028]

3 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Dang it, how did you discover that I am part of the only real conspiracy?

We in the Big Oil Conspiracy Cabal are not amused that you have woken up the oil consuming sheeple to our nefarious oily plans.

Conspoilacy is now a word.

I didn't mean to spOIL it for you Tom, the world just changed below our feet. I am a long time investor in oil + gas companies and after losing money hand over fist, I just know that the time is up?!?

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

7 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Conspoilacy is now a word.

I actually saw a documentary once saying that back in the 60s and 70s big oil secretly supported the green and various other liberal movement to take down nuclear as they could see that nuclear could emerge as real competitor... 

Imagine the Irony if true...

[Wombat + 1,028]

2 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I actually saw a documentary once saying that back in the 60s and 70s big oil secretly supported the green and various other liberal movement to take down nuclear as they could see that nuclear could emerge as real competitor... 

Imagine the Irony if true...

That, I can believe!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Regardless of my own views about oil revenues being abused by nefarious and corrupt governments and the nefarious and corrupt global cabal, I still see HYDROCARBONS - - - oil and gas and LNG (and reluctantly coal) - - - as the most efficient means of powering the civilization around the world.  Oil & Gas has allowed the industrial revolution, and provides the energy to power planes, ships, militaries, governments, cities, and modern life in general.  There are enough hydrocarbons to power the world for thousands of years.  No, the world will not run out of hydrocarbons for millennia.

• So-called "renewable" energy can AUGMENT hydrocarbon energy. 
• But "renewable" energy is nowhere near close to totally replacing hydrocarbon energy. 

"Renewable" energy 100% powering the world is exactly like the pipe dream of cheap, cold fusion energy that is "just 20 years away" for the last 50 years, a neverending promise that never gets delivered.

The U.S. Green New Deal and the new EU Green Deal would bankrupt and destroy civilization.  Insanity.  But they are great ideas if you want to kill off a chunk of the world's population. 

Pay attention to Bill Gates offering up to $100 billion dollars for a "cure" for Coronavirus.

Bill Gates says vaccines can help reduce world population

"The world today has 6.8 billion people... that's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

[Rob Plant + 2,601]

9 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Regardless of my own views about oil revenues being abused by nefarious and corrupt governments and the nefarious and corrupt global cabal, I still see HYDROCARBONS - - - oil and gas and LNG (and reluctantly coal) - - - as the most efficient means of powering the civilization around the world.  Oil & Gas has allowed the industrial revolution, and provides the energy to power planes, ships, militaries, governments, cities, and modern life in general.  There are enough hydrocarbons to power the world for thousands of years.  No, the world will not run out of hydrocarbons for millennia.

• So-called "renewable" energy can AUGMENT hydrocarbon energy. 
• But "renewable" energy is nowhere near close to totally replacing hydrocarbon energy. 

"Renewable" energy 100% powering the world is exactly like the pipe dream of cheap, cold fusion energy that is "just 20 years away" for the last 50 years, a neverending promise that never gets delivered.

The U.S. Green New Deal and the new EU Green Deal would bankrupt and destroy civilization.  Insanity.  But they are great ideas if you want to kill off a chunk of the world's population. 

Pay attention to Bill Gates offering up to $100 billion dollars for a "cure" for Coronavirus.

Bill Gates says vaccines can help reduce world population

"The world today has 6.8 billion people... that's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

Agree with all of this apart from your fusion quip.

Cold fusion is a pipe dream as you say, but fusion reaction isn't. Fusion reactions arent currently stable enough to be maintained, this is probably down to computer modelling not being advanced enough at present. This is rapidly getting more advanced each year, so scientists are getting there. The scientific challenges to build a functioning fusion reactor are mind boggling (certainly for me) but the investment and will is there from independents to governments globally.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/06/bezos-microsoft-bet-on-a-10-trillion-energy-fix-for-the-planet.html

https://qz.com/1402282/in-search-of-clean-energy-investments-in-nuclear-fusion-startups-are-heating-up/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-09-28/startups-take-aim-at-nuclear-fusion-energy-s-biggest-challenge

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-fusion/uk-government-to-invest-in-nuclear-fusion-power-plant-design-idUKKBN1WI13F

There are dozens of similar projects around the globe being funded by billionaires to governments

If it was a "pipe dream" then I don't believe these these guys would throw their hard earned cash away so easily.

Going to the moon was considered impossible by pretty much everyone until 1969!

Just my opinion of course

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Agree with all of this apart from your fusion quip.

IF someone could successfully make cold fusion a reality, I would happily jump on board.  But I have been hearing about this since I was kid, and so far, ... naught in reality.  "Just around the corner..."