China's Dreams of World Leadership are Fading

[frankfurter + 562]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“Political goals are the only reason to instigate hate towards China, and most of all reduce as much aspossible direct people to people contacts US-China.”

You are missing the point! Most people do not ‘hate’ the Chinese PEOPLE! What they strongly disagree with is the Chinese government and it’s policies.

Respectfully, you are missing the point. I can think of no time in history when 'the people' went to war: only their 'governments'.  I do not wish to insult your intelligence, but the point made is this: wars, hatred, racism, are avoided when 'people' have a genuine chance to walk a mile in the other man's shoes [learn the language, dine together, laugh together, cry together, and so on]. 

Dickens said it best: beware and guard against ignorance and avarice, for these will cause the human race to consume and destroy itself. 

 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

On 2/10/2020 at 5:54 AM, 0R0 said:

I am not describing my opinions. 

I am describing popular American attitudes

The people who care - like those on this forum - are few and far between in America. 

The hydrocarbons are no longer a concern for the US for their own value. They are part of the weighing of incentives for the US to remain engaged or do what it wants and withdraw.

I believe US leadership is very much interested in keeping China out of the negemony game because it is dangerous to our way of life even if North America were disconnected from the world. 

I believe US leadership  the Chinese are very much interested in keeping China the USA out of the negemony hegemony game, because it USA is dangerous to our way of life even if North America China were disconnected from the world.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

31 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Respectfully, you are missing the point. I can think of no time in history when 'the people' went to war: only their 'governments'.  I do not wish to insult your intelligence, but the point made is this: wars, hatred, racism, are avoided when 'people' have a genuine chance to walk a mile in the other man's shoes [learn the language, dine together, laugh together, cry together, and so on]. 

Dickens said it best: beware and guard against ignorance and avarice, for these will cause the human race to consume and destroy itself. 

 

 

Enjoy your unicorn farts...

[frankfurter + 562]

3 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Enjoy your unicorn farts...

so writes the typical American farthead.

 

[Dmitry Bedin + 25]

On 2/6/2020 at 2:44 PM, BigJets said:

Heard China cut $75B on USA tariffs, today or yesterday.  It is amazing to witnesss Trump kill one of USA’s only adversaries (easily, without firing a single shot).  Going to enjoy watching China crawl to trump over the next 8-1000000000000000 years. 🥰 

suck it China! 

Ты же дебил, чувак!

[Dmitry Bedin + 25]

40 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

I believe US leadership  the Chinese are very much interested in keeping China the USA out of the negemony hegemony game, because it USA is dangerous to our way of life even if North America China were disconnected from the world.

Brilliant! Ppl of the usa mostly god damn “not smart” at all. The sharpest ppl sure those who never travaled out of usa.

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

but the point made is this: wars, hatred, racism, are avoided when 'people' have a genuine chance to walk a mile in the other man's shoes [learn the language, dine together, laugh together, cry together, and so on].

I think these are noble words and agree that this should be the case, unfortunately in the real world it is not.

If you take racism for instance this is normally between people who live in the same street, work in the same office, talk the same language etc etc look at countries such as Italy, Spain, some southern USA states, South Africa etc etc (not picking on anyone here as racism IMO is in every country) There is a high degree of hatred + racism in many of these areas, sad but true.

I have been to China many times and the people I have met are honest, friendly, hard working and very hospitable. Cities seem safe and welcoming. More people should travel and experience countries with differing cultures to their own as it will change them for the better. My problem with many insular countries is that either the people are not allowed to do this or don't even bother to have a passport to do so.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

but the point made is this: wars, hatred, racism, are avoided when 'people' have a genuine chance to walk a mile in the other man's shoes [learn the language, dine together, laugh together, cry together, and so on]. 

Frankfurter you write the above and then your very next post says this

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

I believe US leadership  the Chinese are very much interested in keeping China the USA out of the negemony hegemony game, because it USA is dangerous to our way of life even if North America China were disconnected from the world.

I think you should practice what you preach as at best this is clearly inflammatory.

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

and this!

43 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

so writes the typical American farthead.

Can you not see that you are going to offend people when you write this stuff??

[frankfurter + 562]

32 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

and this!

Can you not see that you are going to offend people when you write this stuff??

I did not initiate, and am simply responding to the offence and slur directed to me personally. 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

1 minute ago, frankfurter said:

I did not initiate, and am simply responding to the offence and slur directed to me personally. 

 

Then if you can clearly show personal offence and slur call it out for what it is and I'm sure the moderators will take action if warranted!.

If you are the bigger person you would not choose to "respond" by doing exactly what you are claiming others do to you.

I have lost count on how many posters on this forum have praised the Chinese people, but disagree with the CCP. Surely that is their right to do so, and yours to disagree and criticise other country's governments?? You seem to take criticism of the CCP as a personal insult (slur) when it is not, unless of course you are a high ranking official in the CCP (personally I don't think you are, but you could always clarify the point for me).

I accept criticism of my own country's past and present governments and the actions they have carried out where I think there is valid argument, I have never seen this from you, which I find odd if you have an unbiased view.

[frankfurter + 562]

to quote oRo :  "I am not describing my opinions. I am describing popular American attitudes ." 

I believe US leadership  the Chinese are very much interested in keeping China the USA out of the negemony hegemony game, because it USA is dangerous to our way of life even if North America China were disconnected from the world.

I think you should practice what you preach as at best this is clearly inflammatory.

Note:

I am not describing my opinions. I am describing popular Chinese attitudes.

I am simply showing how the attitude/belief of a person on one side of a fence is mirrored by the person on the other side of the fence.   Somehow oRo 's comment is not inflammatory, but mine is?  

 

[frankfurter + 562]

2 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Then if you can clearly show personal offence and slur call it out for what it is and I'm sure the moderators will take action if warranted!.

If you are the bigger person you would not choose to "respond" by doing exactly what you are claiming others do to you.

I have lost count on how many posters on this forum have praised the Chinese people, but disagree with the CCP. Surely that is their right to do so, and yours to disagree and criticise other country's governments?? You seem to take criticism of the CCP as a personal insult (slur) when it is not, unless of course you are a high ranking official in the CCP (personally I don't think you are, but you could always clarify the point for me).

I accept criticism of my own country's past and present governments and the actions they have carried out where I think there is valid argument, I have never seen this from you, which I find odd if you have an unbiased view.

to quote Mr Buckland: "Enjoy your unicorn farts..."  

This has nothing to do with the CCP, or China, but everything to do with slur and intent to offend me personally.  Please do not alter facts to suit your narrative.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

7 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

to quote oRo :  "I am not describing my opinions. I am describing popular American attitudes ." 

I believe US leadership  the Chinese are very much interested in keeping China the USA out of the negemony hegemony game, because it USA is dangerous to our way of life even if North America China were disconnected from the world.

I think you should practice what you preach as at best this is clearly inflammatory.

Note:

I am not describing my opinions. I am describing popular Chinese attitudes.

I am simply showing how the attitude/belief of a person on one side of a fence is mirrored by the person on the other side of the fence.   Somehow oRo 's comment is not inflammatory, but mine is?  

 

Frankfurter that is NOT a personal attack

ORO is expressing his personal views about US leadership and hegemony, which he has every right to do.

Nowhere in his post does he personally insult you (he doesnt even mention you)

You may consider this to be inflammatory, I do see that, but it is only his view. If you believe something different then state it in a polite way, too often you will revert to personal jibes as below.

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

so writes the typical American farthead.

This is a personal attack but you seem unable to differentiate between the 2

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

8 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

to quote Mr Buckland: "Enjoy your unicorn farts..."  

This has nothing to do with the CCP, or China, but everything to do with slur and intent to offend me personally.  Please do not alter facts to suit your narrative.

 

Agreed that is inflammatory

I just wish we could all stop with the personal insults.

As I say if you are the better person you will not respond

I have been guilty of it in the past, I hold my hands up, sometimes people push the wrong buttons and out of frustration we send an agressive personal reply. I'm trying to take 5 minutes before I respond when I'm feeling like that.

My colleague once said to me "never send an angry e-mail"

wise words!

[frankfurter + 562]

13 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Then if you can clearly show personal offence and slur call it out for what it is and I'm sure the moderators will take action if warranted!.

If you are the bigger person you would not choose to "respond" by doing exactly what you are claiming others do to you.

I have lost count on how many posters on this forum have praised the Chinese people, but disagree with the CCP. Surely that is their right to do so, and yours to disagree and criticise other country's governments?? You seem to take criticism of the CCP as a personal insult (slur) when it is not, unless of course you are a high ranking official in the CCP (personally I don't think you are, but you could always clarify the point for me).

I accept criticism of my own country's past and present governments and the actions they have carried out where I think there is valid argument, I have never seen this from you, which I find odd if you have an unbiased view.

well, this is far far off topic, but since you raise it, here goes...

Considered, fair, open disagreement to discuss facts to reach truths is always respected: whether to criticise the CCP, me, or anybody else.  But this is not the case on this site: virtually all comments about China and me are slurs, smears, defamation, and condemnation. When received, I respond in kind.  People here are definitely biased to view me and China as their enemy, and simply cannot accept an opposing view.  People are entitled to their bias, but they should realise the dangers thereof.  People should also realise they will be held to account for their comments and slurs.

If you think I cannot accept criticism of the CCP, you should think again please. At no time have I condoned the CCP policies blindly. Be those policies right or wrong in the eyes of people here, I have simply tried to put such policies into a perspective of reason. You accept your government, so you should expect the Chinese to accept their government. For this I am labelled an 'operand' of the CCP.  This is entirely untrue and thus a slur.  If you think I cannot tolerate criticism of my points, think again please.  Factual points are debated; slurs are not.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

26 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

virtually all comments about China and me are slurs

Apart from the above, which I disagree with the, rest of your post I appreciate your honest view.

The majority of posters whether they are Americans, Europeans or whatever nationality state clearly they like the Chinese people immensely. where I think there is a disagreement is on the regime they live by. This I think can be debated as to the pros and cons of such a governance, as can democracy. I do think sometimes you see a critique of the CCP as a personal attack on you for some reason, but we can disagree on this point I guess.

You are 100% correct that I have strayed way off topic and sincere apologies to Ron for hijacking his thread!!

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, frankfurter said:

so writes the typical American farthead.

 

That wasn’t very original! Try to be creative...you know, like your posts.

[frankfurter + 562]

16 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Apart from the above, which I disagree with the, rest of your post I appreciate your honest view.

The majority of posters whether they are Americans, Europeans or whatever nationality state clearly they like the Chinese people immensely. where I think there is a disagreement is on the regime they live by. This I think can be debated as to the pros and cons of such a governance, as can democracy. I do think sometimes you see a critique of the CCP as a personal attack on you for some reason, but we can disagree on this point I guess.

You are 100% correct that I have strayed way off topic and sincere apologies to Ron for hijacking his thread!!

The main point is... You were very quick to accuse me of inflammatory remarks, with no review of posts from others prior to determine whether warranted, and did not reprimand the instigator.  Only after I defended myself against your attack have you acknowledged and recanted.  You apologise to "ron', but I see no apology to me.  But you are not alone for such; this is indeed the norm at this site. 

I hope the so-called administrator takes note of this point and how I am being singled-out on this site. 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

2 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

That wasn’t very original! Try to be creative...you know, like your posts.

I am simply trying to be civil. I figure if I use your vernacular, the point gets across. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Dmitry Bedin said:

Brilliant! Ppl of the usa mostly god damn “not smart” at all. The sharpest ppl sure those who never travaled out of usa.

Would you like a list of all the technical innovations and achievements that those ‘not smart’ Americans have accomplished, many of them decades ago, which have yet to be matched, let alone exceeded, by the incredibly brilliant ‘rest of the world’? If so, go make your own, the information is readily available online and I do not feel inclined to do your research.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

I am simply trying to be civil. I figure if I use your vernacular, the point gets across. 

Fair enough, but still not very creative. Unicorn farts, on the other hand, was brilliant if I say so myself.

Now before you get annoyed...I am making fun of myself. Creativity is NOT a requirement on this forum.

Maybe you should try to understand what Rob is trying to explain here. I have absolutely nothing against you personally, how could I as I have never met you! The only interaction we have is on this forum. Obviously we do not agree on some issues, but we can debate them civilly. 
 

I apologize if I have posted anything which you personally found offensive (I have been known to do this occasionally...) and I will try to avoid doing so in the future.

(You have got to admit though, ‘unicorn farts’ was rather creative...😂) 

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

30 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

The main point is... You were very quick to accuse me of inflammatory remarks, with no review of posts from others prior to determine whether warranted, and did not reprimand the instigator.  Only after I defended myself against your attack have you acknowledged and recanted.  You apologise to "ron', but I see no apology to me.  But you are not alone for such; this is indeed the norm at this site. 

I hope the so-called administrator takes note of this point and how I am being singled-out on this site. 

 

Then in that case accept my apology, I apologised to Ron for hijacking HIS thread so please read it in context!

If apologies are being thrown around then I guess you owe Douglas one for the personal insult!!

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

26 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Then in that case accept my apology, I apologised to Ron for hijacking HIS thread so please read it in context!

If apologies are being thrown around then I guess you owe Douglas one for the personal insult!!

Doug doesn’t care....he’s got the hide of an alligator (toughness-wise, not wrinkle-wise...although that is coming along as well).

[frankfurter + 562]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Would you like a list of all the technical innovations and achievements that those ‘not smart’ Americans have accomplished, many of them decades ago, which have yet to be matched, let alone exceeded, by the incredibly brilliant ‘rest of the world’? If so, go make your own, the information is readily available online and I do not feel inclined to do your research.

undeniably true.