Has Trump put the USA at the service of Israel?

[frankfurter + 562]

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/28/617338/Trump-talks-of-his-‘most-important’-pro-Israel-move-quitting-Iran-nuclear-deal

Factors:  1/ USA embassy relocated to Jerusalem.  2/ Golan Heights recognised as Israel; essentially giving territory over which the USA has no sovereignty.  3/ Unilateral exit of the Iran nuclear deal, literally backstabbing the EU partners.  4/ Assassination of Iran's top general.  5/ Peace Plan to handover Palestinian lands, with NO Palestinian say in the matter.  6/ Continued deployment of US troops in Syria; a country that had not prior expressed hostility to the USA. 

Certainly, the factors above make Trump the best 'friend' Israel ever had in history. But how far will this go? To war with Iran and Armageddon? 

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Just a note that Press TV is an Iranian government controlled site, which despises both the U.S. and Israel.

That said, Press TV can be an interesting alternative to U.S. Mainstream Media, which apparently also despises the U.S.

Carry on.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Let’s not forget also that the US was the first country to recognize the State of Israel....which confers some rights and responsibilities upon the US.

The Golan Heights were the ‘spoils of war’. They were attacked and emerged victorious. If the muppets hadn’t continually shelled Israel from the Golan Heights, there may have been room for negotiation. Ain’t going to happen now - get over it.

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was approved by the US Congress in the ‘50’s. Trump was simply following the mandate from Congress. The fact that previous President’s did not act on this mandate is immaterial.

Any country was allowed to reject the nuclear agreement with Iran at any time - it was not a treaty. Some European countries were actually making money from Iran and would never have pushed for verification of the terms of the agreement. Of course, they were not the Great Satan who had to actually worry about nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, so I guess that was okay (allies my fat ass...again).

Obviously history does not enter into your rant.

[BLA + 1,666]

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Let’s not forget also that the US was the first country to recognize the State of Israel....which confers some rights and responsibilities upon the US.

Really ? 

Obama was first to recognise Muslim Brotherhood.  So U.S. must protect them ?

Edited February 9, 2020 by BLA

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 hours ago, BLA said:

Really ? 

Obama was first to recognise Muslim Brotherhood.  So U.S. must protect them ?

So you are comparing the recognition of a sovereign state, within the international community, with a black, Muslim President recognizing the Muslim Brotherhood?

Really?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

20 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you are comparing the recognition of a sovereign state, within the international community, with a black, Muslim President recognizing the Muslim Brotherhood?

Really?

Careful a little racism and bigotry leaked out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_religion_conspiracy_theories

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Careful a little racism and bigotry leaked out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_religion_conspiracy_theories

It would only be a racist remark if it was inaccurate. Are you saying that Obama was neither black or Muslim? I guess you did not read his book and haven’t seen a picture of the guy.

Political correctness has no place in a reasonable debate.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It would only be a racist remark if it was inaccurate. Are you saying that Obama was neither black or Muslim? I guess you did not read his book and haven’t seen a picture of the guy.

Political correctness has no place in a reasonable debate.

Just don't understand why him being black or his (debatable but I don't care) religious affiliation has to be mentioned at all.

I don't have to be a Jew to recognize that Jews have a right to exist etc.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Just don't understand why him being black or his (debatable but I don't care) religious affiliation has to be mentioned at all.

I don't have to be a Jew to recognize that Jews have a right to exist etc.

When the Muslim Brotherhood, especially in the US, is brought into the debate, then race and religion are also brought in by default.

If Obama had been a Southern Baptist of European descent, then we would not be having this discussion.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

When the Muslim Brotherhood, especially in the US, is brought into the debate, then race and religion are also brought in by default.

If Obama had been a Southern Baptist of European descent, then we would not be having this discussion.

This is true, but can change. 

Also isn't he like African black not middle eastern brownish to be crude?  Let's be silly and call his skin colour Rastafarian - if a skin colour can a have a religion.

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

The fact is, he was half black and half white. He apparently ignored his ‘white’ half during his entire presidency and made it well known hat he was ‘black’. This was his choice and his decision, and well it should be.

But as an adult, every decision has consequences, even more so in politics.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The fact is, he was half black and half white. He apparently ignored his ‘white’ half during his entire presidency and made it well known hat he was ‘black’. This was his choice and his decision, and well it should be.

But as an adult, every decision has consequences, even more so in politics.

My children are half Chinese. Amazingly they're able to fully function as successful adults without resorting to "victimhood" as "Asians" trying to get by in America. On forms they've often put their "race" down as white, even though they're clearly not. They just don't care about the slicing and dicing one party loves to use to dis unify their country. 

[frankfurter + 562]

19 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Just a note that Press TV is an Iranian government controlled site, which despises both the U.S. and Israel.

That said, Press TV can be an interesting alternative to U.S. Mainstream Media, which apparently also despises the U.S.

Carry on.

True.  But; the US embassy is now in Jerusalem; the Golan is now part of Israel; Trump did exit the JCPOA; etc. Are these points not true? 

 

[BLA + 1,666]

Bottom line U.S. bares no responsibility or obligation to protect Israel. There are multiple reasons given for U.S. protection.  Take your pick.

Now that U.S. does not need the region's oil how much of the tens  of $Billions spent each year is really spent to protect Israel. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by BLA

[frankfurter + 562]

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Let’s not forget also that the US was the first country to recognize the State of Israel....which confers some rights and responsibilities upon the US.

The Golan Heights were the ‘spoils of war’. They were attacked and emerged victorious. If the muppets hadn’t continually shelled Israel from the Golan Heights, there may have been room for negotiation. Ain’t going to happen now - get over it.

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem was approved by the US Congress in the ‘50’s. Trump was simply following the mandate from Congress. The fact that previous President’s did not act on this mandate is immaterial.

Any country was allowed to reject the nuclear agreement with Iran at any time - it was not a treaty. Some European countries were actually making money from Iran and would never have pushed for verification of the terms of the agreement. Of course, they were not the Great Satan who had to actually worry about nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, so I guess that was okay (allies my fat ass...again).

Obviously history does not enter into your rant.

Interesting.  On one hand you condone Israel for taking the Golan as 'the spoils of war'.  On the other hand you condemn China for taking back its own territory in Tibet from the UK empire as 'the spoils of war'.   

[frankfurter + 562]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

My children are half Chinese. Amazingly they're able to fully function as successful adults without resorting to "victimhood" as "Asians" trying to get by in America. On forms they've often put their "race" down as white, even though they're clearly not. They just don't care about the slicing and dicing one party loves to use to dis unify their country. 

Well, I do not see how your comment relates to the topic, but it is interesting nonetheless to learn something about you and family.  Your offspring must have wry fun at times dealing with the general society. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Interesting.  On one hand you condone Israel for taking the Golan as 'the spoils of war'.  On the other hand you condemn China for taking back its own territory in Tibet from the UK empire as 'the spoils of war'.   

No, I never even mentioned Tibet, although that could be an interesting thread if YOU could initiate it.

Concerning the Golan Height, if you study your history, the Arabs had been shelling Israel from these heights for years. A union of Arab countries attacked Israel in what is now called the Six Day War. The Arabs got the crap kicked out of them on all fronts. The Israelis took the Golan Heights and they will never return them...as a rational adult, would you?

Note: The Uzi submachine gun was developed by the Israelis strictly to clear the trenches on the Golan Heights. Apparently it worked!

[frankfurter + 562]

About the Uzi, you may be correct. But about the 6-day war, have you confused the 6-day with the Yom Kippur?

The 6-day war began with a preemptive strike by Israel upon Egypt, June 5 1967. Nasser of Egypt called for support from Jordan and Syria. By the war's end, June 11, Israel had captured the entire Sinai and the Golan, and her troops had entered and controlled the UN-protected enclave of East Jerusalem. 

The Yom Kippur war began October 6, 1973, with a preemptive strike by Egypt against Israel, followed quickly by attack from Syria to regain the Golan. This war ended upon October 23, 1973. 

Both wars had the support and limited involvements of the USA and Soviet Union.  Indeed, the end of Yom Kippur was a settlement between these two powers, so to avoid the risk of a much larger conflict between them.  The enduring result of these wars is the return of Sinai to Egypt, the now annexation of the Golan into Israel, Israel's continual theft of Palestinian lands by gunpoint, and the USA-sponsored and -supplied rise of Israel as a nuclear power.

So, yes, for some, the Golan may be considered a spoil of war. But it is more accurately considered as a spoil of a preemptive strike: in plain words, the Golan was stolen by force.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Preemptive strike v. unjustified attack

Further information: Preemptive war

At the commencement of hostilities, both Egypt and Israel announced that they had been attacked by the other country.^[66] The Israeli government later abandoned its initial position, acknowledging Israel had struck first, claiming that it was a preemptive strike in the face of a planned invasion by Egypt.^[66][140] On the other hand, the Arab view was that it was unjustified to attack Egypt.^[141][142] Many commentators consider the war as the classic case of anticipatory attack in self-defense.^[143][144]

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

11 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Interesting.  On one hand you condone Israel for taking the Golan as 'the spoils of war'.  On the other hand you condemn China for taking back its own territory in Tibet from the UK empire as 'the spoils of war'.   

Are you now claiming the Hu Dynasty is back in charge in China? They've pushed aside the pesky CCP finally? 

[Bob D + 562]

Question:  Has Trump put the USA at the service of Israel?

 

Answer:  No!

Edited February 10, 2020 by Bob D
Speling eror

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 2/9/2020 at 5:21 AM, frankfurter said:

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/28/617338/Trump-talks-of-his-‘most-important’-pro-Israel-move-quitting-Iran-nuclear-deal

Factors:  1/ USA embassy relocated to Jerusalem.  2/ Golan Heights recognised as Israel; essentially giving territory over which the USA has no sovereignty.  3/ Unilateral exit of the Iran nuclear deal, literally backstabbing the EU partners.  4/ Assassination of Iran's top general.  5/ Peace Plan to handover Palestinian lands, with NO Palestinian say in the matter.  6/ Continued deployment of US troops in Syria; a country that had not prior expressed hostility to the USA. 

Certainly, the factors above make Trump the best 'friend' Israel ever had in history. But how far will this go? To war with Iran and Armageddon? 

 

So now being a friend to Israel is a bad thing?

Antisemitic much?

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, frankfurter said:

About the Uzi, you may be correct. But about the 6-day war, have you confused the 6-day with the Yom Kippur?

The 6-day war began with a preemptive strike by Israel upon Egypt, June 5 1967. Nasser of Egypt called for support from Jordan and Syria. By the war's end, June 11, Israel had captured the entire Sinai and the Golan, and her troops had entered and controlled the UN-protected enclave of East Jerusalem. 

The Yom Kippur war began October 6, 1973, with a preemptive strike by Egypt against Israel, followed quickly by attack from Syria to regain the Golan. This war ended upon October 23, 1973. 

Both wars had the support and limited involvements of the USA and Soviet Union.  Indeed, the end of Yom Kippur was a settlement between these two powers, so to avoid the risk of a much larger conflict between them.  The enduring result of these wars is the return of Sinai to Egypt, the now annexation of the Golan into Israel, Israel's continual theft of uPalestinian lands by gunpoint, and the USA-sponsored and -supplied rise of Israel as a nuclear power.

So, yes, for some, the Golan may be considered a spoil of war. But it is more accurately considered as a spoil of a preemptive strike: in plain words, the Golan was stolen by force.

The Egyptian and Syrian war against Israel in 1973 was not "preemptive" that is a false claim by Egypt and Syria, as Israel very obviously was demobilized at the time. That you believe a word out of these dictatorships is an indication of your poor judgement and inability to deal with facts. Old Soviet block propaganda about their client states does not make any of the statements true. Next time at the Socialist International  you might want to turn your skeptic's hearing aide on.

Considering that the Golan heights were finally taken by Israel after the 1973 war. it is legitimate spoils of war.  An appropriate trade for the land in between the Golan heights and Damascus that was given up. 

Considering that Israel gave up the Suez canal to Egypt after capturing North Eastern Egypt during the 1973 war, They should have been ecstatically enthusiastic to sign a peace deal that didn't cost them the Suez canal. 

I will refrain from commenting on the Palestinian situation, just to say that their propaganda is only in small part based in fact. But yes, I don't envy their situation.

[BLA + 1,666]

3 hours ago, 0R0 said:

So now being a friend to Israel is a bad thing?

Antisemitic much?

We can be friends

But Billions $ for a friendship

Have you looked at the disrepair your local bridges, roads and schools are in ?

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by BLA

[0R0 + 6,251]

Which was fine. Now we had a tax hike of 1% and the local gov is fixing up the schools and repairing the roads. Highway was fine. 

Having a large modern army you can mobilize as necessary for a couple billion a year is a rather good bargain. And you get back technology tweaks to your systems.