Has Trump put the USA at the service of Israel?

[Marcin2 + 724]

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“So automatically everything Israeli related becomespersonal for Trump.“

This is nonsense! My wife is Malaysian Chinese, hardly anything to do with the politics in Malaysia even holds my interest. You are making the leap of logic that just because a member of you family is associated with some organization or clique, you are somehow a member as well.

If your brother was a serial axe murderer, does this imply that you also have criminal tendencies?

Douglas, last I checked you are not Malaysian Sultan, eligible for King's position.

And about Ivanka and Jared, and the special US-Israel bond, very much reliant on Trumps personal relation with the couple.

If the below is not personal and the proof of extraordinary leverage Israel has in current administration, I do not know what it could be (Jared being the explicite Voice of Trump in Israeli portfolio, implicit he already is):

1. Kushner's office is physically the closest to the Oval Office. Trump does not trust DC bureaucrats, his son-in-law is really CLOSE to him.

2. Trump put Kushner in charge of brokering peace in Israeli-Paletstinian conflict, as well as making deals with foreign countries, although in what way he is in charge is unclear.

3. On August 24, 2017, Kushner traveled to Israel to talk to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.(with whom Kushner has longstanding personal links and family ties, causing Palestinians to distrust him). He then traveled to Palestine to meet President  Mahmoud Abbas in an attempt to restart a peace process in the Middle East.

It is much easier to conclude everything withing the Family.

And Ward , Ivanka and Jared positions (I mean real strength, cabinet minister, or senior advisor does not matter) are as strong as Robert's in JFK administration.

 

As a side note, guys do not deviate every topic towards entitlements rants.

[Marcin2 + 724]

19 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Well, yes and no. The priests and scribes in Judaism held exceptional power and wealth, as tends to congregate in the Second Estate. The idea of literacy is certainly great and obviously societies benefit more than ruling caste from ubiquitous education. 

The following might amuse you

https://www.historyextra.com/period/medieval/murderous-history-bible-translations-catholic-murder-version-who-wrote-when/

Hus history I know, but he was burned mainly  for the idea of secularisation of church property.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Because they make and control more of the money!  Not a crime by any means, but......

So it is okay to hate people simply because they are more financially astute than you are? Sounds like childish envy to me.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

“Douglas, last I checked you are not Malaysian Sultan, eligible for King's position.“

What the heck is this all about? Looks like deflection to me.

[BigJets + 87]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

So you think they are organized around something other than their particular parties and government position?

I’m not really sure..?  Just seems odd.  Maybe it’s nothing.  

[Boat + 1,315]

On 2/9/2020 at 4:21 AM, frankfurter said:

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/28/617338/Trump-talks-of-his-‘most-important’-pro-Israel-move-quitting-Iran-nuclear-deal

Factors:  1/ USA embassy relocated to Jerusalem.  2/ Golan Heights recognised as Israel; essentially giving territory over which the USA has no sovereignty.  3/ Unilateral exit of the Iran nuclear deal, literally backstabbing the EU partners.  4/ Assassination of Iran's top general.  5/ Peace Plan to handover Palestinian lands, with NO Palestinian say in the matter.  6/ Continued deployment of US troops in Syria; a country that had not prior expressed hostility to the USA. 

Certainly, the factors above make Trump the best 'friend' Israel ever had in history. But how far will this go? To war with Iran and Armageddon? 

 

If that’s what it takes, sure, why not. We learned from WWII what happens if you ignore a threat. Iran, N Korea, Russia and to some extent China have been treated to often with kid gloves by our weak US leaders. As we speak I don’t suggest military action but the process should begin to eventually only trade with those willing to settle differences. There is no reason for any expansion. No banking and trade with the free world happens unless you earn it. 

[frankfurter + 562]

9 minutes ago, Boat said:

If that’s what it takes, sure, why not. We learned from WWII what happens if you ignore a threat. Iran, N Korea, Russia and to some extent China have been treated to often with kid gloves by our weak US leaders. As we speak I don’t suggest military action but the process should begin to eventually only trade with those willing to settle differences. There is no reason for any expansion. No banking and trade with the free world happens unless you earn it. 

Interesting.  What would your prefer your presidents do?  If trade is your goal, given the USA has sanctioned Russia and others, how would you expect trade to occur and under what terms? 

[Boat + 1,315]

2 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Interesting.  What would your prefer your presidents do?  If trade is your goal, given the USA has sanctioned Russia and others, how would you expect trade to occur and under what terms? 

Obviously the sanctions were way to weak and not followed by serious quotas. If that failed they they should have rallied the allies and simply isolated the offending countries totally. 
For example N Korea should have never had nuclear weapons. The free world as a united front should have taken out their military infrastructure and then immediately left. 
Letting this bad seed get watered by inaction has paid us no favors. 
Behavior change by bad countries worked in the case of Italy, Germany, Japan and S Korea. That change came through strength and an invitation to join the world of trade. Those options are always available who put their citizens first. If these countries cannot conform to international norms they should just trade amongst themselves isolated from the rest of the world.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Boat

[frankfurter + 562]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

So you think they are organized around something other than their particular parties and government position?

Grow a beard and put on a knit yarn yarmulke in a democratic event in NYC or LA and you will find that you are made to feel excluded as if you were radioactive - particularly by the Jewish participants. 

It is not a Boss Tweed organization taking over everything.

Do the same analysis by profession, you will discover the broad predominance of attorneys. Want to take that into conspiracy land? Jew's religious and intellectual occupation by tradition is Jewish law, which has elements of both common law and "god's law", and most significantly the ability to argue. It is easily translated into excellence in the legal profession. Which is why so many Jews are involved in government, and in particular the courts. 

In America, people can call Chinese chinks, Blacks niggers, and more, with zero legal risk. But God help you if you ever question anything about Jews or the holocaust or the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians such as Safsaf.  For such debate, the new presidential order will apply, you will be hauled before the courts dominated by the excellent lawyers and judges who just happen to be the sect you may be criticising, and presumably impartial justice will prevail.  To gauge your chances, in common law, you need look only to consider the cases for Assange and Manning to see what standards may apply.  Examples of sources from many to choose:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Trump-expected-to-issue-executive-order-against-antisemitism-on-campus-610540

And, in Texas, as a "contractor" you may bid or provide services upon the condition you agree prior not to 'boycott" Israel. Excerpted from a standard draft contract:

"'Pursuant to Section 2270.001 of Texas Government Code, the Contractor affirms that it:
1. Does not currently boycott Israel
2. Will not boycott Israel during the term of the Contract. "

[note: contractors are considered "its" under law]. How the above do not contravene The Constitution or Bill of Rights is beyond my limited intelligence, but presumably the consent of the governed applies?  In the land of the free, a law or policy established without due process and regard for the equal rights or all citizens is unthinkable, right?

For government, a significant number of members in the senate and house hold dual USA and Israel passports. Seems the presidential hopeful Mr Sanders is a dual citizen. [mind, the data is 2018].  I have no idea how impartial votes may be attained, or how the members balance the loyalties, but that's for Americans to accept, right?

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by frankfurter

[0R0 + 6,251]

@frankfurter 

There is much support for Israel from the Christian evangelical community (a core Trump supporter group). Jews in America are not uniformly supporters of Israel and many voice disagreement with treatment of the Palestinians and withhold funds they or their families or organizations used to donate because of it. They also are not keen on providing legal favors for Jews or Israel. Jews are too well  aware that if it can be done in their favor it can also be done against them. But that doesn't stop evangelicals who want to see Israel thrive so that the "end times" prophecy comes to fruition and they can all get a short cut to heaven. So you can put that one on them, the Jewish community in Texas is small. 

The dual citizenship issue is a red herring. It is an escape route for Jews, who were turned away by all governments during the Nazi rise to power and then as Jews escaped ahead of the Nazi forces. Nobody presumes to predict how things turn out for Jews in America. There is a long history of antisemitism in the US. Just not anywhere near as bad as in Europe, where the Holocaust took place after centuries of pogroms and burning of Jews as heretics. Loyalties remain to their home in America, but the history forces one to have a backup. 

Jews are not a "protected" ethnicity or race. They are lumped in as "white" or as another race if they happen to not be white skinned. I don't support any hate speech legislation of any kind. I don't know why Trump thinks this one would be necessary, nor why it should stand up in court. 

I think you are not being honest with yourself and definitely not with us. The shameful mistakes of  "defense forces" of a not yet 5 month old country are not exactly what you smear an entire country with for the rest of its existence. Should we hold Turkey Russia China Germany and others as to be perpetually genocidal and all who support them as racists?

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

And where I live, the national passport states, “This passport is valid for all countries except Israel”.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So it is okay to hate people simply because they are more financially astute than you are? Sounds like childish envy to me.

Apparently so, Douglas.  So much so that the Nazis did their damnedest to eliminate the Jews there and in neighboring countries.  I know there's a lot more to it than that, but.......I think it's about the money.

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

9 hours ago, BigJets said:

I’m not really sure..?  Just seems odd.  Maybe it’s nothing.  

Man!  Those are a whole lot of seriously scary pics of some seriously deranged people!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

And where I live, the national passport states, “This passport is valid for all countries except Israel”.

Where do you live?  Are you talking about U.S. Passports?  I just looked through mine and didn't see that statement.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

9 hours ago, BigJets said:

I’m not really sure..?  Just seems odd.  Maybe it’s nothing.  

Amusingly, I actually already had all of those pictures saved in my one of my images / meme folders, except for the KFC one.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

And where I live, the national passport states, “This passport is valid for all countries except Israel”.

 

18 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Where do you live?  Are you talking about U.S. Passports?  I just looked through mine and didn't see that statement.

Malaysia passport has that irrevocably embedded.

“This passport is valid for all countries except Israel”.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Where do you live?  Are you talking about U.S. Passports?  I just looked through mine and didn't see that statement.

Malaysia

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Malaysia

I wondered if that's what you meant.  Thanks.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

12 hours ago, frankfurter said:

In America, people can call Chinese chinks, Blacks niggers, and more, with zero legal risk. But God help you if you ever question anything about Jews or the holocaust or the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians such as Safsaf.  For such debate, the new presidential order will apply, you will be hauled before the courts dominated by the excellent lawyers and judges who just happen to be the sect you may be criticising, and presumably impartial justice will prevail.  To gauge your chances, in common law, you need look only to consider the cases for Assange and Manning to see what standards may apply.  Examples of sources from many to choose:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Trump-expected-to-issue-executive-order-against-antisemitism-on-campus-610540

And, in Texas, as a "contractor" you may bid or provide services upon the condition you agree prior not to 'boycott" Israel. Excerpted from a standard draft contract:

"'Pursuant to Section 2270.001 of Texas Government Code, the Contractor affirms that it:
1. Does not currently boycott Israel
2. Will not boycott Israel during the term of the Contract. "

[note: contractors are considered "its" under law]. How the above do not contravene The Constitution or Bill of Rights is beyond my limited intelligence, but presumably the consent of the governed applies?  In the land of the free, a law or policy established without due process and regard for the equal rights or all citizens is unthinkable, right?

For government, a significant number of members in the senate and house hold dual USA and Israel passports. Seems the presidential hopeful Mr Sanders is a dual citizen. [mind, the data is 2018].  I have no idea how impartial votes may be attained, or how the members balance the loyalties, but that's for Americans to accept, right?

 

Relevant to the bolded section above:

https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1227660066700042242

 

[frankfurter + 562]

17 hours ago, 0R0 said:

@frankfurter 

There is much support for Israel from the Christian evangelical community (a core Trump supporter group). Jews in America are not uniformly supporters of Israel and many voice disagreement with treatment of the Palestinians and withhold funds they or their families or organizations used to donate because of it. They also are not keen on providing legal favors for Jews or Israel. Jews are too well  aware that if it can be done in their favor it can also be done against them. But that doesn't stop evangelicals who want to see Israel thrive so that the "end times" prophecy comes to fruition and they can all get a short cut to heaven. So you can put that one on them, the Jewish community in Texas is small. 

The dual citizenship issue is a red herring. It is an escape route for Jews, who were turned away by all governments during the Nazi rise to power and then as Jews escaped ahead of the Nazi forces. Nobody presumes to predict how things turn out for Jews in America. There is a long history of antisemitism in the US. Just not anywhere near as bad as in Europe, where the Holocaust took place after centuries of pogroms and burning of Jews as heretics. Loyalties remain to their home in America, but the history forces one to have a backup. 

Jews are not a "protected" ethnicity or race. They are lumped in as "white" or as another race if they happen to not be white skinned. I don't support any hate speech legislation of any kind. I don't know why Trump thinks this one would be necessary, nor why it should stand up in court. 

I think you are not being honest with yourself and definitely not with us. The shameful mistakes of  "defense forces" of a not yet 5 month old country are not exactly what you smear an entire country with for the rest of its existence. Should we hold Turkey Russia China Germany and others as to be perpetually genocidal and all who support them as racists?

 

1/ You assume a dual citizenship creates no conflict of interest and the concerned will always act in the best interests of the USA.  If you accept such for your government, I have nothing to say about acceptance.  As I say, governments govern by consent.  2/ You are missing the point and have exaggerated the case to make a point.  To hold others perpetually for their past sins is a moral question; Jesus advocated no.  But what if those sins continue?  Even Jesus lost his patience with continual sinners. My point is open, free discussion is required to reach truth, to learn lessons, to advance knowledge, to reach world peace; not to condemn a people.  

[0R0 + 6,251]

7 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Relevant to the bolded section above:

https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1227660066700042242

 

That was a stupid move on Netanyahu's part. 

Definitely wrong on the part of any state legislature. Should be challenged in court.

[0R0 + 6,251]

36 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

1/ You assume a dual citizenship creates no conflict of interest and the concerned will always act in the best interests of the USA.  If you accept such for your government, I have nothing to say about acceptance.  As I say, governments govern by consent.  2/ You are missing the point and have exaggerated the case to make a point.  To hold others perpetually for their past sins is a moral question; Jesus advocated no.  But what if those sins continue?  Even Jesus lost his patience with continual sinners. My point is open, free discussion is required to reach truth, to learn lessons, to advance knowledge, to reach world peace; not to condemn a people.  

Well, let us see, Turkey continues, now going into Syria to kill Kurds, Russia took hold of Crimea and started a Russian nationalist uprising in Eastern Ukraine. Israel continues to control the West Bank and does so through economic support of the Palestinian authority's areas on the one side, and a series of checkpoints that restrict arms movements and allow arrests of terrorists. Those are unwanted by either side, but no trade of land is permitted thus the Palestinian's land is not contiguous. History has shown no reason for trust, so it has to continue that way.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

40 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Well, let us see, Turkey continues, now going into Syria to kill Kurds, Russia took hold of Crimea and started a Russian nationalist uprising in Eastern Ukraine. Israel continues to control the West Bank and does so through economic support of the Palestinian authority's areas on the one side, and a series of checkpoints that restrict arms movements and allow arrests of terrorists. Those are unwanted by either side, but no trade of land is permitted thus the Palestinian's land is not contiguous. History has shown no reason for trust, so it has to continue that way.

Israel and the Palestinians could sort their issues out over coffee....if it wasn’t for the serious lack of trust on both sides.

It takes ‘two to tango’, putting the entire blame on Israel is simply childish and being politically ‘correct’ (...or a sheep).

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

“There is much support for Israel from the Christian evangelical community (a core Trump supporter group). “

If you read the Christian Bible, this ‘support’ becomes understandable. It is not just the “evangelical community”.

[BLA + 1,666]

On 2/12/2020 at 6:32 PM, Marcin2 said:

Douglas, last I checked you are not Malaysian Sultan, eligible for King's position.

And about Ivanka and Jared, and the special US-Israel bond, very much reliant on Trumps personal relation with the couple.

If the below is not personal and the proof of extraordinary leverage Israel has in current administration, I do not know what it could be (Jared being the explicite Voice of Trump in Israeli portfolio, implicit he already is):

1. Kushner's office is physically the closest to the Oval Office. Trump does not trust DC bureaucrats, his son-in-law is really CLOSE to him.

2. Trump put Kushner in charge of brokering peace in Israeli-Paletstinian conflict, as well as making deals with foreign countries, although in what way he is in charge is unclear.

3. On August 24, 2017, Kushner traveled to Israel to talk to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.(with whom Kushner has longstanding personal links and family ties, causing Palestinians to distrust him). He then traveled to Palestine to meet President  Mahmoud Abbas in an attempt to restart a peace process in the Middle East.

It is much easier to conclude everything withing the Family.

And Ward , Ivanka and Jared positions (I mean real strength, cabinet minister, or senior advisor does not matter) are as strong as Robert's in JFK administration.

 

As a side note, guys do not deviate every topic towards entitlements rants.

Trump doesn't trust DC bureaucrats . Don't blame him. 

It's a shame because Jared is unimpressive. At Frisch High School "C" avg.  When his father was in jail for tax fraud he way overpaid for a building on 6th Ave NYC.  Almost bankrupt their Real Estate firm.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by BLA