Tom Kirkman

Charts of COVID-19 Fatality Rate by Age and Sex

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1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

This has all the information and is live data apparently

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Pay attention to the curve displaying  new cases and new deaths in time. Both are exponential functions. The number of dead doubles every three days. Then compare it to the babbling of people like Trump who believe that "by Easter, everything will be fine". It has not even begun yet, so it's premature to draw conclusion about who is and isn't safe, etc. There are documented cases where a heralthy person in his 30-40s comes to a hospital for a checkup, without any cough or flu symptoms and drops dead all of a sudden, cause of death - multi organ failure. There is a lot of unknowns about the virues. 

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1 hour ago, Daniel Ryslink said:

Pay attention to the curve displaying  new cases and new deaths in time. Both are exponential functions. The number of dead doubles every three days. Then compare it to the babbling of people like Trump who believe that "by Easter, everything will be fine". It has not even begun yet, so it's premature to draw conclusion about who is and isn't safe, etc. There are documented cases where a heralthy person in his 30-40s comes to a hospital for a checkup, without any cough or flu symptoms and drops dead all of a sudden, cause of death - multi organ failure. There is a lot of unknowns about the virues. 

Yep it has only just started in the US, 247 deaths yesterday and over 13000 new cases, way more new cases than any other country in the world. In fact nearly double what Spain have reported and they are in a world of pain right now.

Trump is about as far away from reality with opening up America's doors at Easter as you could possibly be.

What I cant understand is that with some healthy people it is that mild they don't even know they have got it, and other healthy people drop dead within 2 weeks. Its like there are 2 strains of this thing, or that some are really prone to the virus with the majority almost not affected. The problem is we dont know why this is so and who is most vulnerable.

 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but the Governor of each State is primarily responsible for the response to any natural disaster within their State.

After hurricane Katrina the Governor of Louisiana delayed calling for Federal (FEMA) assistance...and this delay was also blamed on the sitting President.

These Governors are political animals with no idea how to react to a disaster/epidemic and spend time strategizing how to spin the disaster to their political benefit.

Before this virus showed up, the Governor of New York was concerned with assisting illegal aliens in his ‘sanctuary city’ and was annoyed that the Feds would withhold funds. Now he is caught in a real situation that requires fast thinking on his feet. He has screwed it up and is now blaming Trump and screaming for financial aid.

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6 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Governor of each State is primarily responsible for the response to any natural disaster within their State.

After hurricane Katrina the Governor of Louisiana delayed calling for Federal (FEMA) assistance...and this delay was also blamed on the sitting President.

These Governors are political animals with no idea how to react to a disaster/epidemic and spend time strategizing how to spin the disaster to their political benefit.

Before this virus showed up, the Governor of New York was concerned with assisting illegal aliens in his ‘sanctuary city’ and was annoyed that the Feds would withhold funds. Now he is caught in a real situation that requires fast thinking on his feet. He has screwed it up and is now blaming Trump and screaming for financial aid.

Douglas I'm sure that is the case in pretty much everything you state.

In the UK we have introduced emergency powers and laws to assist police and drive home what is required by government. Surely this should be the case in each state in America when an emergency such as this is occurring and the state governor should hand over control to the White House. Trump has known about the virus for 3 months at least that should be ample time to get emergency laws passed through, or am i missing something in how the US is run. Is it really the tail wagging the dog over there?

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7 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Governor of each State is primarily responsible for the response to any natural disaster within their State.

After hurricane Katrina the Governor of Louisiana delayed calling for Federal (FEMA) assistance...and this delay was also blamed on the sitting President.

These Governors are political animals with no idea how to react to a disaster/epidemic and spend time strategizing how to spin the disaster to their political benefit.

Before this virus showed up, the Governor of New York was concerned with assisting illegal aliens in his ‘sanctuary city’ and was annoyed that the Feds would withhold funds. Now he is caught in a real situation that requires fast thinking on his feet. He has screwed it up and is now blaming Trump and screaming for financial aid.

You are wrong. It's a global threat that requires global response. Moreover, you cannot "react" to an epidemic that spreads with exponential rate. Once you see the ill people, it's already too late. You have to be prepared beforehand - you must have people trained to respond, you must have reserves both in personnel and materials, you must have plans and protocols to follow based on scientific knowledge and not on the gut feelings of Donald Trump that change three times a day. 

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Hello from Spain!! 🙂

1. Historical average of daily deaths in Madrid in March: 121

2. Total deaths yesterday in Madrid: 265

The local ice palace/arena is being used as a morgue.Terrible for old people.

So take care friends.

(source 1: https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-mas-muertes-diarias-coronavirus-madrid-resto-causas-sumadas-202003191522_noticia.html?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)

(source 2: https://covid19.isciii.es/ )

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45 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Douglas I'm sure that is the case in pretty much everything you state.

In the UK we have introduced emergency powers and laws to assist police and drive home what is required by government. Surely this should be the case in each state in America when an emergency such as this is occurring and the state governor should hand over control to the White House. Trump has known about the virus for 3 months at least that should be ample time to get emergency laws passed through, or am i missing something in how the US is run. Is it really the tail wagging the dog over there?

It is my understanding that the governor of each state is responsible for the initial response within that respective state until he/she makes the determination that federal assistance is required and requests it. This is the process as I understand it.

Each state is somewhat autonomous with state police and state national guard units.

This system works well as long as the respective governor does not have his/her head up his/her butt, has a reasonable amount of common sense, and is willing to admit that they need help.

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5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This system works well as long as the respective governor does not have his/her head up his/her butt, has a reasonable amount of common sense, and is willing to admit that they need help.

God help America then!

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1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

God help America then!

Rob, I thought you've been in the camp of those who arent concerned?

I have been in the camp of, I dont believe China's bullshit, or the fatality rate anyone touts, and this is more comparable to SARS since mid January. 

Seems A lot are turning the corner the last 2 weeks on their feelings about this. 

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54 minutes ago, Daniel Ryslink said:

You are wrong. It's a global threat that requires global response. Moreover, you cannot "react" to an epidemic that spreads with exponential rate. Once you see the ill people, it's already too late. You have to be prepared beforehand - you must have people trained to respond, you must have reserves both in personnel and materials, you must have plans and protocols to follow based on scientific knowledge and not on the gut feelings of Donald Trump that change three times a day. 

Okay Dan, we were talking about the response process within the United States, the discussion was NOT concerned with the global response. Try to stay on topic.

Secondly, how do you prepare for something like a pandemic response where little is known about the virus? Do you spend the money on test kits when you have no idea what to test for? Do you stock a warehouse full of respirators on the chance that the virus, whatever it is, damages the lungs? How many countries have spent the money to prepare for an ebola virus....which we actually know alot about.

Do you keep a tire repair kit in your car?

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Just now, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay Dan, we were talking about the response process within the United States, the discussion was NOT concerned with the global response. Try to stay on topic.

Secondly, how do you prepare for something like a pandemic response where little is known about the virus? Do you spend the money on test kits when you have no idea what to test for? Do you stock a warehouse full of respirators on the chance that the virus, whatever it is, damages the lungs? How many countries have spent the money to prepare for an ebola virus....which we actually know alot about.

Do you keep a tire repair kit in your car?

Doug, if we've learned and passed as much information here for the last 3 months, surely the big whigs in DC should have had at bare minimum the information we have here. However I will give it to everyone here, you guys are a hell of a group and if it weren't for my frequenting here I would not be nearly as knowledgeable on the subject. We have been WAY ahead of the average american with this forum, and for that I appreciate greatly. I haven't appreciated being called crazy for 3 months, but the apologies are rolling in the last 2 weeks 😄

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6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

God help America then!

It’s not only America He should help...

It is what it is. Why isn’t anyone harping at other heads of state? Or is only the US getting it wrong once again?

It would be nice if once, just once, some other country took the ball and ‘led’ the world during a crisis instead of the incessant bitching and moaning about whatever America does!

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3 minutes ago, J.mo said:

Rob, I thought you've been in the camp of those who arent concerned?

I have been in the camp of, I dont believe China's bullshit, or the fatality rate anyone touts, and this is more comparable to SARS since mid January. 

Seems A lot are turning the corner the last 2 weeks on their feelings about this. 

Didnt think I was any camp?

I believe this virus gives 82% or thereabouts of the population very mild symptoms that are nothing at all to worry about. The problem seems to be that the remaining 18% it has a devastating effect on their health. Many of these 18% already have some health issues that exacerbate the virulence of the virus. Thes people are often hospitalised and many die.

However now it seems the virus is having this effect on more and more healthy and younger people which is a massive concern. If my views have changed because of this then so be it.

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“We have been WAY ahead of the average american with this forum,...”

And here we have it again! Have we been way ahead of the average Frenchman, Englishman, Brazilian, etc... or are Americans simply genetically less capable of absorbing information?

This constant comparison to the US and America is sort of flattering as apparently nobody else is doing anything worthy of comparison!

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8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It’s not only America He should help...

It is what it is. Why isn’t anyone harping at other heads of state? Or is only the US getting it wrong once again?

It would be nice if once, just once, some other country took the ball and ‘led’ the world during a crisis instead of the incessant bitching and moaning about whatever America does!

Unfortunately that is the mantle expected from the most powerful nation and president in the world!

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6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Unfortunately that is the mantle expected from the most powerful nation and president in the world!

He is NOT the world’s President, which is the mantra when all is going well. 
I assume that other countries elect their heads of state with the assumption that he/she is capable of thinking for themselves and will not be dependent on following those damn Americans.

And you wonder why isolationism is attractive to some Americans.

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2 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“We have been WAY ahead of the average american with this forum,...”

And here we have it again! Have we been way ahead of the average Frenchman, Englishman, Brazilian, etc... or are Americans simply genetically less capable of absorbing information?

This constant comparison to the US and America is sort of flattering as apparently nobody else is doing anything worthy of comparison!

Last time I checked it wasn't just Americans on this forum!!!

I think America can be a very insular nation and deeply divided in many ways and that is to be expected with such diverse cultures and over such a large land mass. However when the shit hits the fan they pull together as a nation as do many like my own (Doug I'm now comparing USA to UK, see what i did there 😉).

I dont think any nation has covered themselves in glory over Covid-19 with perhaps the exception of S.Korea

J.mo is being extremely flattering to all on here and has contributed as much as anyone, well maybe not as much as ORO as he is a financial genius IMO.

I have learned so much since I joined last September so I thank everyone for that too.

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2 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

He is NOT the world’s President, which is the mantra when all is going well. 
I assume that other countries elect their heads of state with the assumption that he/she is capable of thinking for themselves and will not be dependent on following those damn Americans.

And you wonder why isolationism is attractive to some Americans.

I never said it was correct I said it was expected as it comes with the territory.

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Doug how many days left in lockdown in Malaysia?

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4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I never said it was correct I said it was expected as it comes with the territory.

No, it does NOT come with the territory, it is an artificial expectation and is not remotely associated with the office.

It must be a relief to other heads of state to cover their ass and say, “Well, that’s what they did!”

What would you say to your child if they used this excuse...🤔

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8 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Doug how many days left in lockdown in Malaysia?

Three more stir crazy weeks!😖

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4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

No, it does NOT come with the territory, it is an artificial expectation and is not remotely associated with the office.

It must be a relief to other heads of state to cover their ass and say, “Well, that’s what they did!”

What would you say to your child if they used this excuse...🤔

Haven't got one mate

If I did I would tell the child to make their own decisions based on as much evidence as they could get, then they could justify that decision to anyone, whether right or wrong.

Doug I get your whole argument and I'm not disagreeing, but you must realise that the US has been that ever present hegemon for 70 odd years. Its all people have ever known. Its not right for people and countries to be so reliant but it is also human nature to do so. NATO is an obvious example of this in practice.

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19 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Doug how many days left in lockdown in Malaysia?

And my TV screen went tits up last night!😂

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8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Three more stir crazy weeks!😖

Hang in there buddy!

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