"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense. And media outlets that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down." - EU Official to the Media.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

That's exactly what they get. They have fewer rights than the average American until they gain citizenship. 

People have to be able to talk about immigration and not get branded racist - it's an important issue, and wanting less change doesn't mean you hate brown people. 

On the other side, Bob D's ludicrous statement that liberals want illegal immigration kills the dialog as well. 

Yet they get subsidies not available to poor Americans and can create enclaves where other Americans are not welcome. It is not a level playing field when comparing economic immigrants (most of them are) and needy American citizens.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Illegal AND legal immigration costs  money. This money COULD have been spent on the present social ills (homelessness, veterans, education, welfare, etc...) effecting those who are ALREADY American (you can insert any nationality here) citizens who have been paying into the system.

Politicians are elected to take care of their constituents, not to solve the problems of others - that is for THEIR politicians to sort out. Pandering to other’s causes to seek votes should be illegal.

The question that arises is, ‘Is immigration required, especially when you have an aging population?’

To answer this question you need to make the determine if you have already employed all of your ‘employable’ citizens? If not, why are you bringing in foreigners? Are the foreigners you plan to bring in suitable to fill the jobs available? If not then you are simply adding to the unemployment rolls.

Can automation fill the roles which are vacant? At some point automation will be required to fill the tasks previously held by retiring workers, we may as well start employing automation.

It is true that the US was built on immigration, but that is history and those days are past. To think that the US could continue to absorb immigrants at the rate she did in the 1800’s and early 1900’s defies logic.

At the end of the day, isn’t it the nationals problem (with assistance, of course) to ‘fix’ the ills in their own countries which have caused them to want to immigrate?

My point is, it is not a ‘right’ to immigrate whether that is legally or illegally. Asylum was never intended to be ‘selective’ (for economic reasons). Any governments first responsibility is to THEIR citizens.

[Marcin2 + 724]

This was said many times here but in a poor country like Poland we do not have means to sponsor economic immigrants - fraudsters with refugee disguise. If some people in Germany think they have means for this generosity / good good for them.

In Germany right wing , anti sponsoring party grows in strength, mainstream parties would need to change their narrative or loose elections.
Simply old folks have tough time in Eastern Germany, while lazy muslim migrants thrive. They are lazy and they are muslem, yet this fact is already racist. The same in Poland - populist party gained 42% of the vote, partly on anti- immigrant fears.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Marcin2
Type

[Marcin2 + 724]

On 2/26/2020 at 9:46 PM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

62 % voting participation in Denmark in this past EP election.

As a side note , did you know that loopholes allow multiple voting for EP ?

Only for people with multiple citizenships but yet I am not happy with some friends being elligible for 3 times voting. And nobody speaks up about this, I was also not aware until recently.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It is true that the US was built on immigration, but that is history and those days are past.

Are you sure ? A huge part of US wealth and innovation is still coming from the migrants and their sons in the XXIst century. Tesla and SpaceX have been founded by a South African migrant, Apple by the son of a Syrian migrant, Amazon by the adopted son of a Cuban migrant and the co-founder of Google was the son of a Russian migrant.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Are you sure ? A huge part of US wealth and innovation is still coming from the migrants and their sons in the XXIst century. Tesla and SpaceX have been founded by a South African migrant, Apple by the son of a Syrian migrant, Amazon by the adopted son of a Cuban migrant and the co-founder of Google was the son of a Russian migrant.

You may be correct, but keep in mind that the children of immigrants are NOT immigrants - they are American citizens!

The vast majority of Americans are decended from immigrants. My family immigrated from Wales in 1790, does that make me somehow a product of immigration in 2020?

Ate you trying to tell me that we should simply let anyone in who wants in....on the chance that we would acquire somebody with the talent of the FOUR people you mentioned?

There are legal mechanisms in place to immigrate to the States, we should not be taking in ANYONE at the expense of American citizens.

If I bothered to look, I am sure that I could find many Americans who have contributed a ‘huge’ part to American innovation and wealth. You are simply ‘cherry picking’ the data.

[Boat + 1,315]

I always thought this site was controlled by the Russians🙃 🤣 After much coaching and teaching you still don’t get it. Immigration is not the immigrants fault. Send those mobs after those who hire them. That’s who benifit from cheap labor at a advantage over law abiding competition. No jobs, no immigration. No magnet no immigration. No immigration, a step in the right direction of dropping population which helps in a multitude of ways. Pollution, resource depletion, demand for imports etc. Growth is the planet killer. This is not 1970 anymore.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

I always thought this site was controlled by the Russians🙃 🤣 After much coaching and teaching you still don’t get it. Immigration is not the immigrants fault. Send those mobs after those who hire them. That’s who benifit from cheap labor at a advantage over law abiding competition. No jobs, no immigration. No magnet no immigration. No immigration, a step in the right direction of dropping population which helps in a multitude of ways. Pollution, resource depletion, demand for imports etc. Growth is the planet killer. This is not 1970 anymore.

You are simply referring to the illegal immigration problem in the US. Government sponsored immigration or asylum does not seriously consider if there are jobs or not. It is simply a ‘feel good’ reaction without considering the impact on their own citizens (who have paid for the safety net!).

That said, concerning the US, you have a point. No jobs and they won’t be inclined to enter illegally.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:14 AM, Marcin2 said:

Political party is something that is represented in parliament  and thus can pursue your agenda. In most of Europe possible not in US with binary choice.

There are much more  cultural contacts within Europe, flow of news also, that is why I aggregated the continent.

System of US lobbying and financing of political parties means that wealthy and corporations just own your parliament.

Douglas you would go to jail in Poland for fraud and bribes with US lobbying, we have it in penal code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States  We have lots of choices. Even so, I wish there were no parties at all. There are none mentioned in our Constitution. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:14 PM, Marcin2 said:

Political party is something that is represented in parliament  and thus can pursue your agenda. In most of Europe possible not in US with binary choice.

There are much more  cultural contacts within Europe, flow of news also, that is why I aggregated the continent.

System of US lobbying and financing of political parties means that wealthy and corporations just own your parliament.

Douglas you would go to jail in Poland for fraud and bribes with US lobbying, we have it in penal code.

Well, we do not have a ‘parliament’, but that aside, if you are elected to the House of Representatives or the Senate as anything other than a Republican or a Democrat, then your job is to represent your constituents on the platform you ran on and got elected with.

Granted, as a ‘singleton’ you would never have a majority, but you still wield power as a ‘swing vote’.

You inferred that there were only two parties in the US Congress, which is false. If you would have qualified your statement and said that there were only two MAJOR parties (at present) you would have been correct.

The voters determine which parties are represented in the US Congress.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:17 AM, Guillaume Albasini said:

Reporters without borders has created a freedom of the press index. Last year the top 6 were european countries.

US is in 48th position.

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

 

 

All fake news. There is virtually no conservative news in Europe. Anything to the right of Angela Merkel is called far right extremism. You can be fined or jailed in Netherlands, Germany, Canada, most of Western Europe for criticizing Muslim misbehavior or espousing parts of Christian doctrine. 

One has to be educated and fair minded to separate false propaganda from the truth. America has 90% left wing journalists, the rest of the world is about the same. Fortunately we still have the right to free speech whereas most of the world does not. It only makes sense that a group of liberal journalists would come up with such a specious list. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:32 AM, Enthalpic said:

Can you name an international organization you think is not corrupt?

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/donate-now?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgavtqajx5wIVtR-tBh2IQweNEAAYASAAEgIhkvD_BwE

http://www.wwf.ca/

https://www.greenpeace.org/international/

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/

https://www.unicef.org/   <-- they may actually suck

https://www.un.org/

No, they are all corrupt IMHO. They are all led by elite globalists who want to rule the world.

One World Government AKA Globalism https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k8kNhtZJLuN66TpDuo67WBV1U2JhhZIvAefxeMNK0ls/edit

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:54 AM, Guillaume Albasini said:

US bad ranking in the RSF index is based on several facts explained by the NGO :

 

 

 

What nonsense. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:54 PM, Guillaume Albasini said:

US bad ranking in the RSF index is based on several facts explained by the NGO :

 

 

 

Why the hell should Trump make ANY comment regarding a sovereign nation whacking a reporter? I thought that the rest of the world was screaming that they do not want the US to act like the world’s policeman!

If waiting for Trump to make a comment regarding the Khashoggi murder is grounds for a low ranking, then this whole ‘Reporters Without Borders’ organization is a bunch of misguided, foolish people simply making noise.

Heck, most people would pay to see reporters muzzled! Not politically correct, but true!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

19 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Are you sure ? A huge part of US wealth and innovation is still coming from the migrants and their sons in the XXIst century. Tesla and SpaceX have been founded by a South African migrant, Apple by the son of a Syrian migrant, Amazon by the adopted son of a Cuban migrant and the co-founder of Google was the son of a Russian migrant.

Conservatives support legal immigration that is based on merit. We oppose illegal immigration. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 hours ago, Boat said:

I always thought this site was controlled by the Russians🙃 🤣 After much coaching and teaching you still don’t get it. Immigration is not the immigrants fault. Send those mobs after those who hire them. That’s who benifit from cheap labor at a advantage over law abiding competition. No jobs, no immigration. No magnet no immigration. No immigration, a step in the right direction of dropping population which helps in a multitude of ways. Pollution, resource depletion, demand for imports etc. Growth is the planet killer. This is not 1970 anymore.

The United States has plenty of room to grow its population. A majority of economists would say we need qualified immigrants to further economic growth. What we don't need is illegal immigrants, immigrants that do not support our culture, or that will be a financial burden.

We need to take care of our own "poor" most of whom live a life better than three fourths of the world's populace. Most are in a temporary bad situation, have worn out their welcome with friends and relatives, are not reliable, have mental problems, or have drug problems. Many actually refuse the help society thinks they need. 

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

22 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Why the hell should Trump make ANY comment regarding a sovereign nation whacking a reporter? 

Perhaps because this reporter was working for a US newspaper..

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Perhaps because this reporter was working for a US newspaper..

 

So what?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Perhaps because this reporter was working for a US newspaper..

 

So if anybody, working for any American company overseas, manages to get him or herself whacked by a regime they have badmouthed, the US President should make a statement?

Are you insinuating that reporters, for some unknown reason, are more important than anyone else and require Presidential comment when they get bent, spindled or mutilated?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Even so, I wish there were no parties at all. There are none mentioned in our Constitution. 

Ron, you might find this interesting:

https://disarmthedeepstate.com/

https://disarmthedeepstate.com/about/

 

[Rykehaven + 6]

On 2/27/2020 at 3:54 AM, Guillaume Albasini said:

US bad ranking in the RSF index is based on several facts explained by the NGO :

8 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

Perhaps because this reporter was working for a US newspaper..

If a President were to make statements every time an American (one out of 330 million) got in trouble, he'd never stop making statements throughout his Presidency.

The President is not responsible for individuals, American or otherwise, nor even large organizations comprised of Americans.  He is responsible for protecting the general welfare and common defense of the People of the United States (not any one individual or even a "large" group of individuals), using the Executive Branch.

Similarly, the United States Military is not responsible for saving every person in the world who decides to try his hand at personal gain and power plays.

I travel the world in my own personal capacity.  I would say my lifetime and occupational record has served America well, and will continue to do so - far more than Khasoggi ever has, anyway.  But if I get into trouble in Kuwait City or Singapore, the American President is under no legal or Constitutional obligation to make statements on my behalf, let alone send in the Marines to rescue me.

I am not under Presidential authority (I don't work for the President), nor am I in the direct service of the United States (my Oath of service was discharged years ago)...

...and by logical extension, I am not entitled to the same protections a Marine or FSO receives from his Commander-in-Chief (who is also Chief Diplomat) while on a mission in a foreign country, under SOFA or diplomatic immunity. 

Why would I expect the President of the United States to give a statement on my behalf?  To boot, why would I expect him to use state assets - assets which are always implied to be backed by American Forces* - when I am not even on a mission for the United States, let alone in American territory?  I'm off the reservation. 

*(if you aren't ready to risk lives - or worse, are too cowardly to consider looking down the gun barrel - then don't bother playing this game. This is not amateur hour)

I am in a foreign country principally for my own personal gain.  If the President decided I was not worth his time (and the risk to Americans lives under his overall Command and responsibility) and that my purposes did not serve the American People, he would absolutely be right to dismiss my situation, and use his attention and Forces on other matters, which would better benefit millions of Americans (rather than focusing on just one). 

And that is the President's determination to make, under electoral and Constitutional authority.

Maybe the embassy would send an envoy or call the local lawyer for representation, but the Constitution does not presume to guarantee First , Second or Fifth Amendment rights in Saudi Arabia, anymore than it does on Mars (though that may change in the future). 

Khasoggi wasn't in the United States. He wasn't American. At no time in his history did he swear allegiance or serve America, did he?  He didn't even serve as a foreign employee of any of America's bases, consulates, drycleaners, cafeterias, etc. or any other American-sanctioned mission.

Khassogi was a foreign national, on foreign soil, in the service of his own personal agenda. 

The Washington Post has no authority to grant him protection of the Executive branch and US Armed Services.

None.

By what right does Khassogi [and you] have any claim on the service of a single US Marine, Sailor, Soldier or Airman?  Or for that matter, a single word from the President of the most powerful country in the world?

Know your place, little man.

Americans of far greater stature and service than you or I, have not (and do not) make such arrogant and grandiose claims.

If a foreign national on foreign soil - with no proven loyalty, service ,or benefit to America - has claims on the service (and ultimately lives of) American Servicemen and Power, does that mean everyone in the world can claim it? (real Americans in America excluded, of course)

Oh, I get it.

You live in your own little world of "Rights", where people receive loyalty and service, whilst offering none in return.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Rykehaven

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Conservatives support legal immigration that is based on merit. We oppose illegal immigration. 

Liberals also support legal immigration that is based on merit and asylum cases. We oppose illegal immigration.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

17 hours ago, ronwagn said:

On 2/27/2020 at 3:14 PM, Marcin2 said:

Douglas you would go to jail in Poland for fraud and bribes with US lobbying, we have it in penal code.

Hmm.  Is that right?

Poland Corruption Report

"Corruption is a problem for businesses operating in Poland. The public procurement, justice, and land administration sectors carry particularly high risks. Political corruption constitutes a challenge to fair business as politicians use their positions to gain benefits, and practices of nepotism and cronyism are widespread. Poland’s Criminal Code offenses include active and passive bribery, bribery of foreign officials, extortion and money laundering. However, the government does not prosecute these offenses effectively, and officials engage in corruption with impunity. Despite facilitation payments and gifts being criminalized, these practices are widespread."

[Tomasz + 1,608]

It so happens that I am a practicing bussiness lawyer in Poland. In Poland, corruption as such is not a big problem. The problem is rather nepotism but it resulted from very high unemployment for many years and the fact that there are still few good jobs in Poland. The fact there was huge corruption in privatization in the 90s, there is a great reprivatization scandal in the recovery of property by former owners.

There is also a problem of cronyism and unclear social connections of business with the state authorities.

Well, the fact is also at the other hand that in the US, for example, there is no corruption because corruption has been legalized as lobbying and it is legal and it is a big business. There is no such legislation in Poland.

 Marcin2 I once heard a great saying - Poles hate the Germans because they are so different from them. They also hate the Russians because they are so similar to them.

Poland is still rather a relatively poor country of hard-working people with relatively conservative views. You've probably heard about LGBT-free zones, the restrictive abortion law, and the influence of the church in Poland.

Communism imho worked a bit like a freezer when it comes to ideological and moral issues. After the first period of freedom, including sexual freedom after the revolution, the communists pursued a very conservative moral policy.

Some things in Poland and Central Europe will not change long enough and receiving immigrants is one of them.

In addition, gentlemen, as a refugee in Poland, you can probably count on about 1500 zlotys per month, or about 400 dollars. You don't earn much more without knowing Polish - the median earnings in Poland are around $ 700 a month after taxes.

In Poland, to live at a decent level, you have to honestly rather work very hard and this is probably not the dream of economic emigrants who have a much richer choice like France or Germany with much better social choice.

And above all, the difference is that the Polish state is not very effective in enforcing the law - the judiciary is ineffective, bailiffs and administrative enforcement are highly ineffective, the tax authorities collect taxes ineffectively. The police are not corrupt, they are simply underinvested.

 Polish populists have been stashing the slogan of cheap bureaucracy for years, and a state with underinvested bureaucracy is an ineffective state.

In addition, the Poles because they have been under partitions for over 100 years generally do not respect the law and do not identify with the authorities.

In Poland, there is no great crime with the use of violence, in this respect it is one of the safest countries in Europe, while there are a lot of cheaters, crafters and people generally speaking who have no respect for applicable law.

As you want, malicious people call Poland a China of Europe because of har working population with relatively low wages according to western standards, a theoretical state because of lack of goverment efficiency or  a non-sovereign American vassal because of foreign policy.

No Russian trolls many Poles say so about their country, including myself and people do not hide that Poland does not meet their expectations.

Generally, Poland looks pretty good against the background of the region, but one of the reasons for populism is that people thought that after the fall of communism and joining the EU, life would be the same as in the West, and the road to this very long and in short in Poland still life is relatively difficult full of absurdities and unworthiness. Even though I rather belong to the group of successful people in Poland, I am not particularly happy with this country and I see that in many cases Germany is still a long way away

Edited February 29, 2020 by Tomasz

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Hmm.  Is that right?

Poland Corruption Report

"Corruption is a problem for businesses operating in Poland. The public procurement, justice, and land administration sectors carry particularly high risks. Political corruption constitutes a challenge to fair business as politicians use their positions to gain benefits, and practices of nepotism and cronyism are widespread. Poland’s Criminal Code offenses include active and passive bribery, bribery of foreign officials, extortion and money laundering. However, the government does not prosecute these offenses effectively, and officials engage in corruption with impunity. Despite facilitation payments and gifts being criminalized, these practices are widespread."

I want to see our corruption report an how we use these tricks and our prosecutors ignore them (if they are Democrats).