← Go back to All Blogs

Thoughts on Multiculturalism in Europe

Twenty-plus years ago I lived in England, had a Sri Lankan boyfriend, an Israeli best friend who shared a flat with a Palestinian guy, and a Persian housemate. This is still my idea of multiculturalism. Yet 20 years later what I read and see about Europe -- and Turkey but that's a different question altogether -- suggests the multicultural model governments have been shoving down people's throats has begun to backfire and it is backfiring spectacularly.

Take the hidden camera film about the encapsulated Muslim neighbourhoods in Paris. This is no spin and no fake news. I have a friend who lives and Paris and she has vouched for the genuineness of these neighbourhoods. There are similar places in Germany, too, if we are to believe none other than Angela Merkel, who said in an interview such encapsulated areas have no place in the German society. Ironic, given she put a lot of effort into taking migration to ridiculous levels.

Then there's Denmark, where I saw (hopefully because I only had three days) multiculturalism still working, probably because the country, as far as I remember, limited its intake of economic (sic) refugees. There I saw people of various colors all smiling and friendly, as befits one of the happiest nations in the world. And then I saw a boy that eyed me suspiciously for several minutes until I felt extremely uncomfortable (I went out to smoke and forgot the keys to the Airbnb, okay? Don't tell anyone). That one single boy is new to the country, I'm sure. I really hope he won't look at this very typical Middle Eastern way at people in five years. Because he will have assimilated.

Assimilation is the only sensible way of actually accomplishing multiculturalism that doesn't give rise to racist extremists. I will here quote Mr. Schwarz, an expat in a country neighbouring his home one, who, after 20 years here says "We" when he talks about the locals and "they" when he talks about his countrymen and countrywomen. The only way to have a decent life in a foreign country even one that is culturally close to your home one, is to assimilate, learn the language and the culture, and make it your own. This emphatically does not suggest you need to give up your own culture or religion. What it does suggest is that if you want to live in a society you need to become a part of it, rather than an appendage that feeds from a society, operates in it, but remains a separate part of that society and, ultimately, does not contribute to the greater good. That's what encapsulation is all about and to me, it is the one single negative aspect of the recent migration waves that can bring the whole European Union down.

How did we get here? We need to thank PC gone mad and congenital human stupidity. The more you force a group of people to accept something new and unfamiliar as normal and familiar without giving them enough time to process this thing, the more they will clench their teeth and refuse to eat it. The pendulum, as I like to say, always swings. The further it swings into one direction, the further it will then swing into the opposite one. it's just one of these laws that can't be violated. And personally, I believe Western Europe is being so stupid because they have no group memory of the Ottoman empire ruling over them. We do although we won't continue to have this memory for long as history is being rewritten. Literally.

  • Like 6
  • Upvote 2


57 Comments


Recommended Comments



33 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Seriously, who cares if we need to meet them at their level if it makes these problems go away. I don't. I am a very pragmatic person.

I also consider myself pragmatic but I'm not covering my head and body completely just to protect the religious sensibilities of Muslim immigrants who subscribe to rules that are in stark and irreconcilable opposition to my idea of individual freedoms. We do have to meet in the middle, @Rasmus Jorgensen, that's the only way that I see as fair. Not to mention that the more concessions one side makes, the more demands the other side will have. It's human nature.

  • Like 4

Share this comment


Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

I also consider myself pragmatic but I'm not covering my head and body completely just to protect the religious sensibilities of Muslim immigrants who subscribe to rules that are in stark and irreconcilable opposition to my idea of individual freedoms. We do have to meet in the middle, @Rasmus Jorgensen, that's the only way that I see as fair. Not to mention that the more concessions one side makes, the more demands the other side will have. It's human nature.

Agree 110%. I would not want my daughter to have to cover herself either. 

All I am saying that, at least in Denmark, there is a very large and loud minority that does not want to move at all. And that is not helping. Thankfully, in my life I have meet many moderate muslims. The common denominator for all of them is that they are economically integrated, which leads me to believe economic inclusion is the only real remedy. 

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Agree 110%. I would not want my daughter to have to cover herself either. 

All I am saying that, at least in Denmark, there is a very large and loud minority that does not want to move at all. And that is not helping. Thankfully, in my life I have meet many moderate muslims. The common denominator for all of them is that they are economically integrated, which leads me to believe economic inclusion is the only real remedy. 

A pre-empt : My point is that I believe they are moderate because they are economically integrated. NOT the other way around. Overly simplistic I know, reality is of course push and pull, but it illustrate my point. 

Share this comment


Link to comment

And I'm sure they are economically integrated because they wanted to integrate. I'm not sure if economic integration is the cause for moderation or if it is the other way round. Radicals of all sorts are notoriously loathe of changing anything about themselves or their view of the world. Could you please elaborate why you believe integration leads to moderation rather than vice versa?

P.S.Large loud minority doesn't sound good. You should be less nice and welcoming. Seriously. 

 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

A further example : 6-7 months ago I helped a somali immigrant in his 30s. He had been in Denmark for  3-4 years and just living on social benefits. I asked him what his training was. None really, just hard work in agriculture. I asked him what he had been doing to find. He said that he had been taking Danish classes etc learning to write CVs etc. In fairness his basic Danish was understandable. Far from good, but understandable. He said "they" couldn't find him a job. I said : What have YOU done? he said everything they told me. I said : Are you willing to work hard? He said yes, I want to feed my family. I said OK. First thing you need to do is drop this attitude that "they" need to find you work. I called a friend who owns a scrap yard. I asked if he could give this guy a chance. Last I heard the somali immigrant started an apprenticeship with a local small shipyard August. 

Above is an example of faulty immigration policies. There was a man who wanted to work, but instead helping him into employment we sent him through schooling, tried to teach him write CVs whilst living on social benefit. What this man needed was a chance to prove he could work. That was it. he needed to be taugth to seek out possible employeers and say : I may not speak Danish very well, but I can work hard. Do you have any openings? Can you give me a chance? He needed to be taugth our social codes.

Was it his responsibillity to learn this? Yes. Would he have learnt if I hadn't explained it to him in simple language? I don't know. Would he have gotten the first chance if I had not opened the door? Probably not. Is everybody happier? Yes.  Now, instead of sitting with his friends chewing khat and getting drunk talking about how horrible Denmark is, he going to work. I don't know what he says to his friends in his time off of course, but there is a chance that he is actually saying Danes are not all bad. And telling them what worked for him. And atleast for the time being he is off welfare, so tax payers should be happy. 

 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen
  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

And I'm sure they are economically integrated because they wanted to integrate. I'm not sure if economic integration is the cause for moderation or if it is the other way round. Radicals of all sorts are notoriously loathe of changing anything about themselves or their view of the world. Could you please elaborate why you believe integration leads to moderation rather than vice versa?

Most people I have met around the world want the same thing - make a little money and give their families a better life. Yes, there are radicals - the always will. My point is just that poverty (also comparative poverty within a society) is a petri-dish for radicalism.  

Back in 1969 Elvis said it like this: 

People, don't you understand
The child needs a helping hand
Or he'll grow to be an angry young man some day?
Take a look at you and me
Are we too blind to see
Do we simply turn our heads, and look the other way?

So, Elvis was talking about crime, but the principle is the same. 

Does this + my other example explain it? 

to be clear - I believe radicalism of any kind has no place in society. 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen
  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Maybe we shouldn't be talking about immigrants, but rather, maybe the fix can only be found in emigration!  Let's take the US, for example.  If we consider the United States to be a 'success', at least in the sense that refugees should both desire and be allowed to enter, then let's look at how the US got here in the first place.  It wasn't that immigrants came to the US because the US was a fabulous nation; no, the US became a fabulous nation because powerful, hardworking individuals emigrated to that land so as to form that nation.  Maybe what the Middle East and Africa really needs is for a group of hard-working, educated individuals to emigrate to their countries!  They could pass out blankets, and then all will be will with those places, too!  

  • Upvote 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
5 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

@Epic

Firstly, I never defined diversity as race. The context for @Marina Schwarzs blog post was cultural diversity. 

Secondly, I am explicitly saying that the single largest reason for problems with immigrants in Europe is NOT that their culture is different. It is that they are NOT economically integrated into our societies. This is then made worse by the cultural differences. Something you seem to agree with:

I am NOT denying anything you are raising. I am simply saying that the only way to fix this is to change integration policies so we can achieve economic integration. There is historic precedence for this : back in the 80s and 90s there was a saying that no country with a McDonalds in it had ever attacked America. The point was once people experienced economic growth they did not want to return to the life they had before. 

 

To elaborate on my view : How we design our integration policies CAN define how immigrants interact with our societies. The very first communication lesson I learned was that there is a sender and a receiver. As sender you need to think about how the receiver interprets your message. Our immigration policies are designed believing the recievers are like us. Of course they fail. @Jan Van Eck would put this down to poor quality bureaucrats. 

Now, you can say - if they come here, they need to adapt to us. Whilst the statement makes sense, it is not working. So, who cares if we need to re-design our integration policies if that works? Seriously, who cares if we need to meet them at their level if it makes these problems go away. I don't. I am a very pragmatic person. Immigrants will keep coming. Regardless of what border control means we put in place. Take one look at living conditions in Africa and compare them to Europe. So, why not do something real about this? 

You insist that immigrants will come no matter what.  Immigration is easy to control if taken seriously; the problem is that countries aren't even trying.  

Your repeated point is that it can work.  The repeated ground reality is that it isn't working.  The evidence is stacked against you.  Before advocating for immigration, the burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate that it will work. You must also show how you will make it work and provide empirical data to support your plan.  I.e. it's not enough to claim diversity is good and make noble statements about helping people.  If you want your claims to be taken seriously, you must support them with the same rigor an investment decision requires.  Introducing new people and cultures is an investment; wishful thinking will not do.  

But, as @Epic mentioned, whether immigrants integrate successfully is out of your control.  They make a personal decision to integrate or not, and no amount of cajoling can change that.  I don't believe you've thought immigration though, much less that you know how to make it work.  Prove me wrong.  

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment
10 hours ago, Epic said:

^I feel like you are describing the opening scenes in the movie Idiocracy.  ...it was a terrible movie, but a great predictor of the future.  

Basically, yes.  Intelligence has been studied, and the studies show that IQ is highly heritable.  In primitive hunter-gatherer societies, a small percentage of males - the most successful ones - fathered most of the children even as nature weeded out idiots.  There was upward pressure on intelligence.  Agriculture - and the subsequent development of monogamous marriage - removed much of that natural selection, allowing large populations of relatively low intelligence to survive.  This worked well enough because intelligent people accrued more resources, allowing them to support more offspring.  This could be seen in places like Britain, where children of the nobility went forth to establish industries, advance science, and colonize the world.  I met some of that diaspora in Texas; frighteningly intelligent people...

Today, however, many of the most intelligent refuse to procreate, placing downward pressure on IQ.  That's a problem.  Liberals & globalists insist that anyone can be trained to fill a given role, but working in industry as a STEM person, I can tell you that isn't true.  Only a tiny fraction of the population is capable of the consistent rational thinking, discipline, and creativity necessary to keep modern societies humming.  When those people stop procreating, civilization ends.  

It requires more than technical brilliance, too.  India produces plenty of mathematical geniuses, yet India is an economic train wreck.  I see the same thing in departments of mathematics & physics, where "brilliance" is often accompanied by horrible mismanagement & waste.  What's missing is the ability to predict consequences, handle larger quantities of data, maintain discipline, make tough decisions in the face of social pressure, etc.  Where these traits are lacking, civilization fails.  So sure, you can bring in immigrants from that country that's never produced a noteworthy civilization - but don't expect those immigrants to maintain your civilization.  They haven't a clue how.  If the people who built the civilization stop having children, the civilization will end.  

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
PB

(edited)

3 hours ago, Epic said:

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Maybe we shouldn't be talking about immigrants, but rather, maybe the fix can only be found in emigration!  Let's take the US, for example.  If we consider the United States to be a 'success', at least in the sense that refugees should both desire and be allowed to enter, then let's look at how the US got here in the first place.  It wasn't that immigrants came to the US because the US was a fabulous nation; no, the US became a fabulous nation because powerful, hardworking individuals emigrated to that land so as to form that nation.  Maybe what the Middle East and Africa really needs is for a group of hard-working, educated individuals to emigrate to their countries!  They could pass out blankets, and then all will be will with those places, too!  

That would work.  Unfortunately, it's been labeled "exploitation".  South Africa is an interesting example.  The region was poor & technologically undeveloped before Europeans arrived, and Europeans turned it into a noteworthy country.  As European influence in South Africa declines, we're seeing the country crumble.  No surprise there; civilization requires a certain level of intelligence, discipline, and work ethic to maintain.

Zimbabwe is a particularly amusing example: 

O900uRM.jpg

 

As a final note, it's interesting how much violence & rape occur when Europeans lose control of a country.  Once the ignorant masses gain control through democracy, collapse into a medieval hellhole is inevitable.  I would be extremely careful who I allowed into a country.

Edited by mthebold
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

@mthebold

You raise some good and fair points. I will respond to them indicidually. 

19 hours ago, mthebold said:

You insist that immigrants will come no matter what.  Immigration is easy to control if taken seriously; the problem is that countries aren't even trying.  

I believe this to be a law of nature. Just like capital will also flow to where best return is. Just like the original emigrants from to America were leaving desperate conditions in Europe in search of a better, so will emigrants from Africa and ME towards Europe. We cannot stop them. An example : US has been trying to stop drugs from coming into America for decades. Has it worked?

19 hours ago, mthebold said:

Your repeated point is that it can work.  The repeated ground reality is that it isn't working.  The evidence is stacked against you.

As you know I am saying the immigration policies are failing. And because immigrants will keep coming we need to start getting realistic about immigration policies. 

 

19 hours ago, mthebold said:

Before advocating for immigration, the burden of proof lies on you to demonstrate that it will work. You must also show how you will make it work and provide empirical data to support your plan

I have never made a secret of that argue from simplistic examples and experiences from my own life. However, my younger brother is doing a doctorate integration policies in Denmark. It is English. He should be done with it in 6 -8 months. If you are seriously interested I will send it to you. Seriously. It can't get anymore datadriven than that. 

I would challenge you to do the same with your point of view. But serious sources. Not Breitbart or similar. 

19 hours ago, mthebold said:

I.e. it's not enough to claim diversity is good and make noble statements about helping people.

Fair enough. Although I never made secret of that I am talking about the difference each of us can do as individuals and using my personal life as examples. To be clear - I do not do or write anything to get any that'a'boys, but because I care about the society that my kids will grow up in. 

 

Edited by Rasmus Jorgensen

Share this comment


Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

@mthebold

You raise some good and fair points. I will respond to them indicidually. 

I believe this to be a law of nature. Just like capital will also flow to where best return is. Just like the original emigrants from to America were leaving desperate conditions in Europe in search of a better, so will emigrants from Africa and ME towards Europe. We cannot stop them. An example : US has been trying to stop drugs from coming into America for decades. Has it worked?

Europe repelled violent invasions for centuries without a problem.  Immigration is not inevitable; we're simply not bothering to stop it. 

As for the US, we never took immigration - or drugs - seriously.  Our business owners found immigration - esp. illegal immigration - convenient.  Workers supported families in Mexico, which meant they only had to afford Mexico's cost of living.  Thus, immigrants provided an impossibly cheap source of labor.  On top of that, employers found they could abuse illegals.  A person who can be kicked out of the country at any moment will do as they're told.  The net effect was: 

1) US citizens losing jobs
2) Depressed wages across entire industries
3) Loss of tax revenues through under-the-table wages and depressed wages.
4) Loss of economic growth as money was sent home to immigrants' countries
5) Stagnating innovation as business owners found it was easier to exploit cheap labor than to improve their practices.  
6) Increased strain on public services (education, health care, etc) from a progressively poorer, less educated, population - much of which didn't even speak English. 

The only people who gained were the business owners who profited from cheap labor, which is why I say your position on the matter is rather convenient.  Sadly, too few people cared enough about what was happening to stop it.  We could have stopped it.  In the 1950's, we did stop it.  We just chose not to.  

19 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I would challenge you to do the same with your point of view. But serious sources. Not Breitbart or similar. 

My point of view does not carry a burden of proof.  Countries that were stable before immigration will be stable without it.  It's the introduction of new cultures, ideologies, and people that requires proof.  

21 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Fair enough. Although I never made secret of that I am talking about the difference each of us can do as individuals and using my personal life as examples. To be clear - I do not do to get any that a boys, but because I care about the society that my kids will grow up in. 

You mentioned that your wife is an immigrant, which puts your opinions in better perspective.  You want to build an immigration-friendly, globalist paradigm because that's to your family's benefit.  This explains why you lean on warm feelings & insist that it might possibly work without addressing how, exactly, it could be made to work.  

Share this comment


Link to comment
1 hour ago, mthebold said:

O900uRM.jpg

I want to let you know, once again, that I very much appreciate the amount of data you have collected over the years, @mthebold.  If you have more images that tell a story similar to that quoted above (on ANY topic), feel free send a link!  

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this comment


Link to comment
2 hours ago, Epic said:

I want to let you know, once again, that I very much appreciate the amount of data you have collected over the years, @mthebold.  If you have more images that tell a story similar to that quoted above (on ANY topic), feel free send a link!  

Nothing comes to mind offhand, but I'll gladly keep sharing what I recall. 

Thanks for the positive feedback.  

Share this comment


Link to comment
20 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

A further example : 6-7 months ago I helped a somali immigrant in his 30s. He had been in Denmark for  3-4 years and just living on social benefits. I asked him what his training was. None really, just hard work in agriculture. I asked him what he had been doing to find. He said that he had been taking Danish classes etc learning to write CVs etc. In fairness his basic Danish was understandable. Far from good, but understandable.

On a lighter note, do you actually realise what a feat of courage and hard work this is? You were born with it but let me tell you, Danish for non-native speakers is so hard I'm increasingly thinking I'd need surgical intervention to be able to speak it. I've no migration plans, I just love this language, so I'm struggling on. :)

On a serious note, I'm with you on that: most people are not radicals and yes, poverty breeds radicalism as noted by Noam Chomsky and George Clooney in Syriana. But it's precisely these radicals that mess up all that's good about migration in terms of workforce and, I don't know, cultural diversity, I guess.

On a further serious note, this failure of existing immigration policies has reached Sweden, I just found out yesterday. They have been unable to form a government since September because a nationalist party (a nationalist party in Sweden!) got too many votes, if we are to believe Bloomberg. It boggles the mind how Europe allowed this. 

On a last serious note, the UK has gone way too far: it refused asylum to the Pakistani Christian woman who was acquitted in a trial there. Downing Street was worried it would make some groups unhappy. We can all guess what kind of groups these are. I am deeply appalled at this idiotic tolerance to radicalism at the expense of all other groups. Of all things to be tolerant towards, they pick radicals! Stunning.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

@mthebold

If you are serious about making this an academic discussion I forward you my brothers dissertation once he has finished. As mentioned it is English. A warning though - it will be a long and tough read. In order to put to it into context you will need a lot of of background on Danish society which I am happy to provide. If you just want to blame immigrants and crazy liberals for all that you find wrong with the world then I am not the right guy to be discussing with. 

I will ignore the insinuations about my personal motives as they could not be further from the truth. 

ps. I would also suggest you fact check at least your statements about Europe. 

Share this comment


Link to comment

@Marina Schwarz

I agree that Europe needs more balance in their politics, particularly immigration politics. It is PC gone mad squaring off against, ehh, something frigthening. But this is a chicken and egg discussion. 

 If you are interested I can give you some background on Sweden, but it will have to wait for another day. Am a bit busy at the moment. 

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

That would be great, yes. Whenever you have the time. Thank you!

Share this comment


Link to comment
On 11/15/2018 at 2:53 AM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

@mthebold

If you are serious about making this an academic discussion I forward you my brothers dissertation once he has finished. As mentioned it is English. A warning though - it will be a long and tough read. In order to put to it into context you will need a lot of of background on Danish society which I am happy to provide. If you just want to blame immigrants and crazy liberals for all that you find wrong with the world then I am not the right guy to be discussing with. 

I will ignore the insinuations about my personal motives as they could not be further from the truth. 

ps. I would also suggest you fact check at least your statements about Europe. 

Dissertations aren't written for the purpose of understanding a subject; they're more a proof of the student's capability.  Intellectual gymnastics, if you will.  

Is there a more concise resource or an executive summary?  

Share this comment


Link to comment
On 11/17/2018 at 6:09 PM, mthebold said:

Dissertations aren't written for the purpose of understanding a subject; they're more a proof of the student's capability.  Intellectual gymnastics, if you will.  

Is there a more concise resource or an executive summary?  

I am sorry. I got my terms mixed up. My brother is finishing his doctorate, meaning the paper he is doing is his doctoral thesis. I would assume that there will be an executive summary, but I would encourage you to read the whole thing in entirety. He should be done with it in 6-7 months.

Share this comment


Link to comment
5 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am sorry. I got my terms mixed up. My brother is finishing his doctorate, meaning the paper he is doing is his doctoral thesis. I would assume that there will be an executive summary, but I would encourage you to read the whole thing in entirety. He should be done with it in 6-7 months.

Ok, I'll read it.  If nothing else, it will be interesting to see what an academic in a country new to integration/multiculturalism thinks about the subject.  I'll be particularly interested to see if he covers the historical cases & offers an explanation as to how this time can be different.  

To put this in perspective, integration & multiculturalism rarely - if ever - go well.  The world forced South Africa to integrate, and that's resulted in widespread rape & murder against "white" people - often egged on by political leaders singing "Kill the Boer".  There are other awful practices around the world, from the Middle East's general mistreatment of women to Pakistan & Afghanistan's use of young boys as sex slaves.  I personally observed mistreatment of women and children on the battlefields of Iraq, and I can say with certainty that you don't want that behavior in your country.

It's not talked about in the US, but if you lived here, you'd notice that the difference between us and South Africa is the power differential between the populations.  Based on how our liberals behaved during Obama's presidency, I have no doubt they'd throw me in the gulags if they had sufficient power - just like the Soviet Union did to wealthier Ukrainian peasants.  Right now in Northern Europe, you're providing the immigrants what they want, and they have no power.  Some day - after they've bred faster than you long enough - there will be enough of them to force their will on you.  Their behavior will be very different then.  

Consider the case of the US.  I've seen minorities living the dream:
- Union job from which they couldn't be fired
- Making $100k+/year doing almost no work
- Married with kids
- Protected by affirmative action & anti-discrimination laws that make it effectively impossible to discipline them
I worked with these people. I spent months building relationships and demonstrating that I would do the right thing simply because it was the right thing - even when it wasn't required of me.  And yet, when asked to do 15 minutes of work - their legal obligation as specified in their employment contract - they would threaten to cry discrimination.  Think about that: no matter what I gave them, they'd end my career to avoid 15 minutes of work.  When given even a little bit of power, they opted for total destruction.  

When you spend time around this - as opposed to reading politically correct reports - you start to understand why 3rd world holes are 3rd world holes: the people there can't cooperate.  You will always be an "other" to them because of their tribal mentality, and because they can't think past the present moment, you can't build up good will.  For the moment in America, there aren't enough minorities to wreak havoc - but if they were 90% of the population as in South Africa, their behavior indicates that they certainly would.  

Maybe your brother has a solution, but I would be skeptical - and very careful what you allow into your country. If you ignore the warnings of history, it could be your grand daughters who end up raped, murdered, and thrown in a ditch.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

@mthebold

I understand where you are coming from. When I do my "background piece" on Sweden I will elaborate a little on how I think immigration policies are failing. I should have done this to begin with - it will give you a better understanding of what I point of view.

side-note : I too have seen exploitation of children & women in Africa & south America. And you are 100 % rigth, it is appaling to say the least. You are preaching to the choir. What is a sad fact though is that it almost with 100 % certainty always are poor people that are exploited. Also, sadly, there are cases of inhuman behaviour i Europe too. There was the Fritzl case in Austria where a white man held his daugther in a dungeon as a sex-slave for 24 years. A similar case in Denmark, where a man white started raping his own daughter when she was 5 and letting other do the same until she 11. She was "rescued" by a Turkish pizza-shop owner, who had been invited to join as payment for pizza. But the Turkish muslim though alerted the police and helped them find the hourse where this was happening. There are no words to describe this horror. And I only mention this to illustrate that all people have capacity for good and evil. 

Share this comment


Link to comment
1 hour ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

@mthebold

I understand where you are coming from. When I do my "background piece" on Sweden I will elaborate a little on how I think immigration policies are failing. I should have done this to begin with - it will give you a better understanding of what I point of view.

side-note : I too have seen exploitation of children & women in Africa & south America. And you are 100 % rigth, it is appaling to say the least. You are preaching to the choir. What is a sad fact though is that it almost with 100 % certainty always are poor people that are exploited. Also, sadly, there are cases of inhuman behaviour i Europe too. There was the Fritzl case in Austria where a white man held his daugther in a dungeon as a sex-slave for 24 years. A similar case in Denmark, where a man white started raping his own daughter when she was 5 and letting other do the same until she 11. She was "rescued" by a Turkish pizza-shop owner, who had been invited to join as payment for pizza. But the Turkish muslim though alerted the police and helped them find the hourse where this was happening. There are no words to describe this horror. And I only mention this to illustrate that all people have capacity for good and evil. 

Sorry to interrupt and I hope you don't mind.  I'm following your discussion with interest and hope to see it continue.

With respect. please do not even attempt to equate the acts of those evil people you mention, or any like them, with anyone else, let alone everybody else ("all people have capacity for good and evil.").  Sometimes the herd must separate the evil ones and either put them to death or exile them.  While every society will undoubtedly have these types of cretons, not every person has the capacity for evil and will even fight against it under reality of death if confronted with it.

Share this comment


Link to comment

 

9 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Sorry to interrupt and I hope you don't mind.  I'm following your discussion with interest and hope to see it continue.

With respect. please do not even attempt to equate the acts of those evil people you mention, or any like them, with anyone else, let alone everybody else ("all people have capacity for good and evil.").  Sometimes the herd must separate the evil ones and either put them to death or exile them.  While every society will undoubtedly have these types of cretons, not every person has the capacity for evil and will even fight against it under reality of death if confronted with it.

Sorry if this came out wrong. It was not my intention to that everybody has capacity for evil. I just meant to say that evil or good is not exclusively limited to a particular culture or skincolor. I see now I could have a chosen a better example. 

Share this comment


Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

 

Sorry if this came out wrong. It was not my intention to that everybody has capacity for evil. I just meant to say that evil or good is not exclusively limited to a particular culture or skincolor. I see now I could have a chosen a better example. 

That's okay.  I kind of figured you meant as much.  And I wholly agree with the amendment.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now