Zhong Lu + 845 March 3, 2020 What exactly are you supposed to do to counter that? Shooting a missile at a drone isn't worth the cost and they fly too fast to be reliably shot down by ballistics. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff March 3, 2020 drone versus drone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 March 3, 2020 Electronic pulse munitions 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
George8944 + 128 March 3, 2020 The Preditor's air speed is 460 MPH. Much slower than a fighter jet. I don't think the problem is speed. I think the problem is the relatively low cost to produce (compared to fighter). They could be massed produced to simply overwhelm an area with quantity. In that case a possible defense is to "simply" throw up a wall of metal at the incoming flock. I'm thinking of something like the M134 Minigun. It fires 6000 rounds per minute. I'm not a weapon's expert or military strategist. I'm just pulling this out of my diaper. 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 March 3, 2020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Storm Another idea... 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zhong Lu + 845 March 3, 2020 Yeah but only one needs to get through with explosives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st March 3, 2020 15 hours ago, frankfurter said: drone versus drone? From the founder of Oculus: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob D + 562 RD March 3, 2020 That's easy - turn Tehran into a glass parking lot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff Guenther + 317 March 3, 2020 Reportedly, in Tokyo, local gangs have started using drones to transport drugs across the city. In response, the police are using net-carrying drones to try to capture these packets mid-air. The gangs are counter-attacking with their own net-drones to try and drop police drones. In a statement with the Tokyo police, they say they "Haven't had this much fun in years" 1 6 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Zhong Lu said: Yeah but only one needs to get through with explosives. Not really, an area weapon. https://interestingengineering.com/what-are-emps-and-how-are-they-used-in-warfare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
George8944 + 128 March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Zhong Lu said: Yeah but only one needs to get through with explosives. Yes, but that can be said about any weapon. Defense is all about damage mitigation. If you want to assure nothing gets through you go on the offensive and take out the factory building them. Destroy the factory and let your defenses whittle down what remains. In World War Two the Germans were on a roll (future pun...keep reading) until the Allies turned their attention to bombing the bearing factories around Stuttgart. It was a single point of failure. Everything from cars, to trucks, to planes to ships needed those bearings. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guillaume Albasini + 851 March 4, 2020 An article about the Turkish drones used in the battle for Idlib. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/battle-idlib-turkey-drones-war-200303170724302.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 2:11 AM, Zhong Lu said: What exactly are you supposed to do to counter that? Shooting a missile at a drone isn't worth the cost and they fly too fast to be reliably shot down by ballistics. Iran already has drones, shooting them down with missiles and other ground fire works very well. Turkey has lost 10 to ground fire in the last few weeks in both Syria and Libya at least 3 of which are similar to the US Predator drone. In fact the US have also lost quite a few over Yemen, Syria and in various parts of Africa. Smaller drones in a 'swarm' might be what you are refering to? These are modified off the shelf drones as far as I know, I've seem some footage from Yemen of suicide drones and then AQ/ISIS or what ever you want to call them have been using them against the Russian Airbase but haven't had loads of success they also carry much smaller explosive or can drop mortar rounds. Drones aren't magic and only really effective if the enemy doesn't have surface to air missiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 4:42 AM, George8944 said: The Preditor's air speed is 460 MPH. Much slower than a fighter jet. I don't think the problem is speed. I think the problem is the relatively low cost to produce (compared to fighter). They could be massed produced to simply overwhelm an area with quantity. In that case a possible defense is to "simply" throw up a wall of metal at the incoming flock. I'm thinking of something like the M134 Minigun. It fires 6000 rounds per minute. I'm not a weapon's expert or military strategist. I'm just pulling this out of my diaper. The US Army already has the Phalanx gun for shooting down mortar rounds and rockets and most likely low flying drones, looks pretty expensive but it wouldn't work at something like a Predator which flies at high altitude. Against the cheap off the shelf type drones I imagine they would be very effective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 Could be fake but it's claimed to be real, in Libya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zhong Lu + 845 March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, El Nikko said: Iran already has drones, shooting them down with missiles and other ground fire works very well. Turkey has lost 10 to ground fire in the last few weeks in both Syria and Libya at least 3 of which are similar to the US Predator drone. In fact the US have also lost quite a few over Yemen, Syria and in various parts of Africa. Smaller drones in a 'swarm' might be what you are refering to? These are modified off the shelf drones as far as I know, I've seem some footage from Yemen of suicide drones and then AQ/ISIS or what ever you want to call them have been using them against the Russian Airbase but haven't had loads of success they also carry much smaller explosive or can drop mortar rounds. Drones aren't magic and only really effective if the enemy doesn't have surface to air missiles Each surface to air missile is more expensive then the drone that's shot down. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 March 4, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 6:11 PM, Zhong Lu said: What exactly are you supposed to do to counter that? Shooting a missile at a drone isn't worth the cost and they fly too fast to be reliably shot down by ballistics. RADAR tracking AA guns with explosive shells are dirt cheap. Used to be ubiquitous. Bigger drones? Missiles. Modern answer: LASER 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Zhong Lu said: Each surface to air missile is more expensive then the drone that's shot down. You think they care about money? Look at the debt and "defence" budget. Even a few rounds of a big regular gun can cost as much as a plastic drone. They can probably 3D print this stuff. Don't even arm them, just use them as flak, chaff, distractions... waste their time, munitions, attention. "Cry wolf" enough times and vigilance falls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 March 4, 2020 Make them deploy an umbrella made of aluminum foil to make them look bigger on radar - waste an expensive missile on what appears to be a big target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zhong Lu said: Each surface to air missile is more expensive then the drone that's shot down. The bigger drones like Ba2 and Ankas drones recently shot down cost 5-10 million each, soviet era missiles are a fraction of that cost. The much smaller 'off the shelf' drones used have pretty small payloads and can't do close to the kind of damage we've just seen from the Turkish Airforce on tank columns, the price they paid for destroying very old tanks was to lose bare minimum 3 expensive drones because they are extremely vulnerable when flying in airspace protected by surface to air missiles. Even the so called rebels accidentally shot down a high flying Anka drone with a turkish built stinger missile the other day, and they only cost around $38,000...peanuts Edited March 4, 2020 by El Nikko Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 and there goes another one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV March 4, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 2:15 PM, Douglas Buckland said: Electronic pulse munitions Bingo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV March 4, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 2:42 PM, George8944 said: The Preditor's air speed is 460 MPH. Much slower than a fighter jet. I don't think the problem is speed. I think the problem is the relatively low cost to produce (compared to fighter). They could be massed produced to simply overwhelm an area with quantity. In that case a possible defense is to "simply" throw up a wall of metal at the incoming flock. I'm thinking of something like the M134 Minigun. It fires 6000 rounds per minute. I'm not a weapon's expert or military strategist. I'm just pulling this out of my diaper. Actually George, have you ever heard of "Metal Storm"? The small Australian company that invented the electronic firing pin. In theory, can fire up to 1 million rounds per minute! Only limited by physical rate at which bullets can be loaded. The company was taken over by either US or UK, but our Navies use the technology as "last line of defence". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV March 4, 2020 Just now, Wombat said: Actually George, have you ever heard of "Metal Storm"? The small Australian company that invented the electronic firing pin. In theory, can fire up to 1 million rounds per minute! Only limited by physical rate at which bullets can be loaded. The company was taken over by either US or UK, but our Navies use the technology as "last line of defence". PS: Don't under-estimate the speed or agility of US drones, much more capable than manned aircraft for obvious reasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Nikko + 2,145 nb March 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Wombat said: PS: Don't under-estimate the speed or agility of US drones, much more capable than manned aircraft for obvious reasons. Like which one? Most employed are not particularly fast nor agile and a human piloted aircraft cannot be hacked. It's one thing to be flying drones over poorly defended countries, a totally different situation if it was versus a modern military power and things got really serious satellites would be destroyed and the drones unable to be remotely operated. Edited March 4, 2020 by El Nikko 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites