Today 127 new cases in US, 99 in China, 778 in Italy

[Hotone + 412]

For the facts, I think you should listen to Bruce Aylward, who led the World Health Organization response to the COVID-19 outbreak in China, speaking about what he saw on his trip.   There were 3 important things that the WHO team wanted to understand.  As the virus becomes a truly global problem, can other countries learn from China's experience?

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Hotone

[0R0 + 6,251]

9 hours ago, frankfurter said:

The strain of what is now called covid19 was, in fact, 1st engineered in the USA, in a military sponsored lab.  It was given to Canada and Australia. Australia tampered with it further to add HIV. It was not given to China. 

In Sept '19, a woman in the US died from symptoms very similar to covid19.  I may say no more about this case.  

In late Oct '19, the world military games were held in Wuhan. The US military competed. 4 US athletes were hospitalised for 2 weeks in Wuhan, saved from near death, for a flu, having the exact same symptoms as covid19.  You can find this story in the media. 

By mid Nov '18, the Wuhan health authority detected an alarming increase in 'flu' cases, but could not determine what this was, as NOBODY in the world had seen this prior and thus no reagent was obtainable that could identify it. Nobody, except the US, who refused to release any reagent to China upon request.  China was left on her own to develop the identification procedure, which took some weeks.

Your revisionist fiction of the covid 19 origin is empty claims, as any pneumonia looks like Covid 19. It is like connecting pieces from different puzzles to create a picture of half oceanscape half desert because that makes the narrative you want. You are connecting the dots the squares the triangles and putting causal arrows between them. That is not reasoning and what you quote is not not evidence.

The CDC would not have had any reagents to test the thing. The only reason there would have been such a narrative put forward is that Chinese authorities want to deflect blame from themselves. CDC didn't develop reagents till they got the virus samples. China refused to hand over any. The CDC got them from the first Seattle case definitively identified. China's international cooperation has been antiproductive, obfuscatory, sabotaging international efforts at every turn. The CCP is a pariah. They now stand accused of once again, of mass killing of their own people.

 

US response has been bad, mainly because of horrific bungling of tests by the CDC, FDA dragging regulatory release from its approvals in order to provide private lab tests, and State department and other bunglings of repatriation of infected individuals. Some of these look like deliberate political sabotage. 

So the US is not basking in a halo of glory on the issue.

[Tomasz + 1,608]

As for the coronavirus in Italy, from what I have read in Italy there are a lot of illegal Chinese who take care of older Italians.

These Chinese went to China for the Chinese New Year and, returning with the virus, infected their pupils.

There are a lot of very old people in Italy and hence such sad statistics.

[frankfurter + 562]

5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Your revisionist fiction of the covid 19 origin is empty claims, as any pneumonia looks like Covid 19. It is like connecting pieces from different puzzles to create a picture of half oceanscape half desert because that makes the narrative you want. You are connecting the dots the squares the triangles and putting causal arrows between them. That is not reasoning and what you quote is not not evidence.

The CDC would not have had any reagents to test the thing. The only reason there would have been such a narrative put forward is that Chinese authorities want to deflect blame from themselves. CDC didn't develop reagents till they got the virus samples. China refused to hand over any. The CDC got them from the first Seattle case definitively identified. China's international cooperation has been antiproductive, obfuscatory, sabotaging international efforts at every turn. The CCP is a pariah. They now stand accused of once again, of mass killing of their own people.

 

US response has been bad, mainly because of horrific bungling of tests by the CDC, FDA dragging regulatory release from its approvals in order to provide private lab tests, and State department and other bunglings of repatriation of infected individuals. Some of these look like deliberate political sabotage. 

So the US is not basking in a halo of glory on the issue.

Fiction?  Narrative?  You are the one to assume, not me.  Facts:  The US was the 1st to develop this corona. The Wuhan lab is not a military operation.   The military games did occur (see wikipedia).  The US athletes were hospitalised.  The corona surfaced soon after the games.  The US is now in a cover-up operation.  True, these facts are circumstantial, but they are not fiction.  Questions abound, no?  Regardless, China is defeating this, whereas other nations are not.  Best wishes to you.  

[Bob D + 562]

We have so many Coronavirus threads that I decided to post a link to what I consider the best read I've seen in multiple threads.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

Edited March 12, 2020 by Bob D

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

On 3/12/2020 at 8:23 AM, Bob D said:

We have so many Coronavirus threads that I decided to post a link to what I consider the best read I've seen in multiple threads.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

It is indeed a very well compiled article, sober and informative, and that's why it was righteously thrashed by wishful thinkers and "hopefullists" who did not understand its contents, but noticed that the author does not have a medical background. Why arguing with the letter, when you can shoot the messenger, right? Some people even called publishing it "irresponsible", because hey, censorship works, right?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

“the Wuhan lab is not a military operation.”

And the moon is made of blue cheese.

[Marcin2 + 726]

On 3/7/2020 at 2:53 AM, Marcin2 said:

US from 173 to 320 , 127 new cases

China from 80,552 to 80,651, 99 new cases,

Italy from 3,858 to 4,636 , 778 new cases

Again this numbers are nowhere directly presented in headlines.

How important is Dow Jones for Trump administration, that President is questioning World Health Organization death data ?

I am writing about this as it is similar to initial  cover up in China.

Fortunately US has free press so information is provided, but President being too optimistic about dangers could  cause reckless behaviour of US  citizens.

 

On 3/7/2020 at 10:33 AM, Marcin2 said:

There should be leadership from the political side, just to assure people that somebody is in control, even if heavy handed control.

What about countrywide State of Emergency ?, I would be Trump I would do it, with televised national announcement, maybe National Guard deployment in some states, and so on, just to SHOW leadership. But it would also help with the disease.

Stock market would tank but only for a few days. Democrats & probably part of Republicans would call this excessive,

but that is what Trump needs, to shut the propaganda of all people critisizing him before November election.

Being excessive in the epidemic is the BEST thing politician can do. Afterwards you can always claim you saved thousands of lives, in epidemic no opponents  have good contra arguments, and would be seen as not caring.

The WORST thing is to be too optimistic, I do not know why Trump lost his political instinct on this issue.

Should definitely call Steve Bannon, for advice.

I have written the above a month ago.

Today we know that irresponsible behaviour of Donald Trump will probably cost more American lives than Vietnam War: 58,100.

It is more Americans than die in car accidents every year: 38,000

Or in homicides: 16,000.

Yet Trump may still get re-elected.

Yet he has still a lot of devout followers (even here).

I am curious about November election.

Do American people care more about the money or lives of their poor and old ?

And not, the recession has never caused sudden increase in deaths. This year instead of the usual 2,450,000 Americans dying mostly because they are very old, probably 2,500,000 maybe 2,550,000 would die.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[0R0 + 6,251]

23 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

 

I have written the above a month ago.

Today we know that irresponsible behaviour of Donald Trump will probably cost more American lives than Vietnam War: 58,100.

It is more Americans than die in car accidents every year: 38,000

Or in homicides: 16,000.

Yet Trump may still get re-elected.

Yet he has still a lot of devout followers (even here).

I am curious about November election.

Do American people care more about the money or lives of their poor and old ?

And not, the recession has never caused sudden increase in deaths. This year instead of the usual 2,450,000 Americans dying mostly because they are very old, probably 2,500,000 maybe 2,550,000 would die.

That is an erroneous analysis.

Trump is not the CDC and FDA and is not the medical establishment. He was flying blind because of the failings of those institutions who PREVENTED testing for the CCP virus BY FORCE of regulatory prohibition. The same thing that the NIH and FDA was and continued to do against all possible treatments. IF you are blaming Trump for that, then you simply don't understand how the distributed powers and government agency model of the US works. The only people who can directly affect these agencies are the House portion of Congress that control their budgets and powers. They are Democrats. 

23 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

There should be leadership from the political side, just to assure people that somebody is in control, even if heavy handed control.

 

That was happening, but the media was not reporting it. Only Fox was..

Political control is control by charlatans. Politician's only skills are manipulation and obfuscation while cutting self interested deals. I would cut them off from coercive power entirely - fund what needs help, cut regulatory hindrances (the main causes of the weak US response). The only reason they have those options that are not available for others is their control over the central bank printing press. I would be happy to cut that off too so they don't participate in emergencies at all. 

Eliminate the powers of quarantine, curfew and martial law permanently from all levels of government everywhere. 

The only thing governments have done worth anything is supporting people and business with funding and funding care for the infected people. 

Trump, of all the people in leadership in this crisis did far better because he actually managed to crush the government's sabotaging agencies and reign them back into some reticent forward action. Few in Europe had to contend with systematic sabotage by their internal agencies of every stage of response down to PROHIBITING testing. France and Italy DID PROHIBIT treatment of the CV19 disease. They were shamed into allowing treatment. 

You are being shamelessly opportunistic in promoting a priori your (generally CCP propaganda informed) anti Trump interpretation of the world. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

I have pointed out that of the myriad effective options there were many far less costly than the one applied. 

I am happy that Trump did not attempt to throw a blanket quarantine and let states figure out what to do and when. They obviously did a variety of responses. Some successful but insanely costly (CA). Some idiotic and then also insanely expensive (NY and NYC) . Some entirely disproportional to the actual minor progress of contagion in their State (OH) and some imposing idiotic blanket shelter in place orders where only a small portion of their state, one city and its immediate suburbs is affected. 

The Darwin award goes to Italy, where they bungled everything at every stage and at every level. Medical decisions were ignorant of well known contagion containment protocols. Health officials gave the wrong idea to the public so they, as in Britain, went on to party down while their kids were at granny's infecting her. So as to your idea of political leadership being necessary, I would say that if politicos had their hands tied and their mouths taped shut we would have been in a better place. Same goes for bureaucrats in the health care field. 

[Marcin2 + 726]

US President can effectively start a war without asking anybody about consent ( only he needs to call it police operation).

US President is a post with vast power and COVID19 is like 30 Katrina hurricanes striking simoultaneously.

Trump not acted cause he is impotent is „dog ate my homework” excuse at best.

Do not make me laugh.